Uk Tourist Visa Refused- Re-Apply Immediately?

[jimexton]

hi

my girlfriend and i wanted to visit the uk for 2 months in december. she has worked for the same company for 11 yrs and is entitled to 2 months paid leave. she applied for a tourist visa, attaching a letter from her employer and a sponsorship letter from my father saying he would provide accommodation and food during her visit. we visited my father last year for 3 weeks and he had written a similar letter.

because of this, we expected her to be granted a visa but her application was refused because of lack of evidence of accommodation.

should she re-apply immediately? and if so, should she say she wants to visit for a shorter period of time? what info should she provide re accommodation? my father's bank statements perhaps?

hope someone can give some advice.

thanks,

james

[Eff1n2ret]

It's strange that a second visit to the same sponsor should be refused for the reason you mention. Are you able to post the wording of the refusal notice?

[jimexton]

It's strange that a second visit to the same sponsor should be refused for the reason you mention. Are you able to post the wording of the refusal notice?

hi. yes the refusal says:

"You have not supplied satisfactory evidence to establish that suitable accommodation is available for you in the United Kingdom, as required in the Housing Act 1985, for example with land registry documents or an independent surveyor's report. Given this, I am not satisfied on a balance of probabilities that you will maintain and accommodate yourself and any dependants adequately out of the resources available to you without recourse to public funds or employment; or will, with any dependants, be maintained and accommodated adequately by relatives or friends as required by paragraph 41 (vii) of HC395"

the part about an independant surveyor's report baffles me! my father (homeowner, former Army Major and MBE) will write a more detailed letter if we apply again but i don't know if its best to wait before applying again.

james

[theoldgit]

This seems a bit over the top for a simple tourist visa, albeit for two months, but they seem to occasionally go down this absurd route when they are minded to refuse an application, I wonder if this is another hardening of attitudes, if so many people could be effected.

Incidentally you say your girlfriend has visited your father before this seems to make even more crass, and I am assuming you are both in Thailand.

As a tourist your girlfriend would have no access to public funds so I am at a loss to understand why this line has been taken.

I think they are within their rights to refuse under this section, but thinking outside of the box, if you and your girlfriend were intending to stay in hotels and could prove sufficient funds, I wonder if you would be expected to have confirmed hotel bookings before the visa is granted, the UKBA advise against making flight bookings before the visa is granted so surely the same would apply to hotels.

Your girlfriend can apply immediately but if they of a mind to refuse in these circumstances unless the concerns are addressed I fear it would be another refusal.

Edited September 12, 2010 by theoldgit

[jimexton]

thanks for that. yes, we are both in Thailand.

the reasons for the refusal were bizarre. maybe the UK embassy are tightening up on Thai visitors or maybe increasing refusals, and thus re-applications, is a new plan to raise money and reduce the deficit

we'll re-apply anyway and my father will write a more detailed sponsorship letter. one more question though: should we stick with 2 months or say she's visiting for 1 month?

thanks,

james

[theoldgit]

I assumed you were in Thailand which makes the whole thing very bizarre as a reason to return is normally the biggest hurdle, and you seem to have that well covered.

How long have you been together, if you have been living together as a couple for over two years, even if not married, you could apply for a visa for a family visit, the conditions are the same but it carries the right of appeal.

I doubt very much if they are refusing applications as a way of increasing revenue, though you seem to be right in saying that they appear to be tightening up even if making a hash of it.

If you want a second opinion you could do a lot worse than bouncing it off Visa Plus, they seem pretty savvy.

Good luck.

[jimexton]

thanks- fingers crossed.

I assumed you were in Thailand which makes the whole thing very bizarre as a reason to return is normally the biggest hurdle, and you seem to have that well covered.

How long have you been together, if you have been living together as a couple for over two years, even if not married, you could apply for a visa for a family visit, the conditions are the same but it carries the right of appeal.

I doubt very much if they are refusing applications as a way of increasing revenue, though you seem to be right in saying that they appear to be tightening up even if making a hash of it.

If you want a second opinion you could do a lot worse than bouncing it off Visa Plus, they seem pretty savvy.

Good luck.

[7by7]

should we stick with 2 months or say she's visiting for 1 month?

If the refusal notice only mentions the doubts about accommodation then I see no reason for changing the proposed length of the visit.

[VisasPlus]

7 x 7 is right in saying that you should not change the period of the visit. Doing so will immediately start an alarm bell ringing in the ECOs mind. He will be thinking that you have changed the period to a shorter period in order to, hopefully, make the proposed visit more plausible. A two month visit is perfectly ok.

I have never seen these refusal reasons before, and I wonder why they are being used. In fact, to me, the refusal reason makes very little sense, especially when your girlfriend has visited before and stayed at the same accommodation. I can only assume that the visa officer did not make that connection when looking at the papers from your previous application.

As TOG says, it's a shame this wasn't applied for as a family visit, thus attracting a right of appeal, as I would be very happy to take this to appeal.

Was the refusal very recent ? If it was, then PM me, and I'll try to give you some advice.

[Mercury]

From the wording of the OP's posts, it seems as though the original application was very light in paperwork, perhaps with no reference to the previous visit. I would re-apply immediately with a more detailed application, drawing attention to the previous visit and the same accommodation and covering the reason for their refusal. That is unless they can get to someone who can reverse the original decision.

[NanLaew]

^ Regarding what the OP has stated as support for the accommodation issue, ie. a letter from his father, I do not consider that as being 'very light in paperwork'. The application guidelines state this as a requirement and it is all I have needed in the past for my wife's successful visit visa applications. A simple one-page letter stating ownership/tenancy, bit of personal history like prior employment and years in residence, mentioning the applicant and partner and signed.

The long-winded citation for the cause for refusal looks like they never even saw the letter written by the OP's father. I suspect a clerical error but how do you appeal that?

[jimexton]

thanks everyone.

^ Regarding what the OP has stated as support for the accommodation issue, ie. a letter from his father, I do not consider that as being 'very light in paperwork'. The application guidelines state this as a requirement and it is all I have needed in the past for my wife's successful visit visa applications. A simple one-page letter stating ownership/tenancy, bit of personal history like prior employment and years in residence, mentioning the applicant and partner and signed.

The long-winded citation for the cause for refusal looks like they never even saw the letter written by the OP's father. I suspect a clerical error but how do you appeal that?

[bobrussell]

This is an extremely bizarre reason for rejection.

To get a print out of the land registry for a property is however very easy and can be done on-line. Go to landregistry.gov.uk and put in the postcode. If this is what they want let them have it and re-apply immediately or go down the family visa route. I cannot believe this nonsense would be acceptable at appeal!

A detailed print out costs £4. Worth doing this anyway but what an unbelievable reason for rejecting a tourist visa!!!

[VisasPlus]

This is an extremely bizarre reason for rejection.

To get a print out of the land registry for a property is however very easy and can be done on-line. Go to landregistry.gov.uk and put in the postcode. If this is what they want let them have it and re-apply immediately or go down the family visa route. I cannot believe this nonsense would be acceptable at appeal!

A detailed print out costs £4. Worth doing this anyway but what an unbelievable reason for rejecting a tourist visa!!!

I agree, as I pointed out in my earlier post, that I see this as a very strange reason for refusal. However, I now see that it also appears in the post from webby1812 - "Girlfrieds Uk Tourist Visa Rejected Steps for re-applying". Maybe this is a new initiative by the Embassy. If so, they should be careful, I think, as I agree that this reason may not be acceptable at appeal. In my earlier post I said that I would be happy to take such a refusal to appeal, especially where the applicant has already made one visit to the same sponsor and accommodation.

Thanks, also, for the interesting info on getting a land registry print out. I'm not sure how the logic ( if any) behind this refusal reason actually applies. I agree that the land registry print out might confirm the size of accommodation, but how does that help when assessing whether there is adequate accommodation ? For instance, there could be any number of people living in that accommodation. I understand that the onus must be on an applicant to provide proof that any accommodation in the UK is adequate, but does the ECO expect the applicant to provide land registry documents in every case, plus evidence of who lives in that accommodation ? If not, then the whole exercise of refusing an application on these grounds is pointless. Why would a land registry print out satisfy the ECO when he doesn't know how many people live in the accommodation ?

As I also said earlier to the OP, if he would like to PM me I would be happy to try to assist.

[Eff1n2ret]

This is an extremely bizarre reason for rejection.

To get a print out of the land registry for a property is however very easy and can be done on-line. Go to landregistry.gov.uk and put in the postcode. If this is what they want let them have it and re-apply immediately or go down the family visa route. I cannot believe this nonsense would be acceptable at appeal!

A detailed print out costs £4. Worth doing this anyway but what an unbelievable reason for rejecting a tourist visa!!!

I agree, as I pointed out in my earlier post, that I see this as a very strange reason for refusal. However, I now see that it also appears in the post from webby1812 - "Girlfrieds Uk Tourist Visa Rejected Steps for re-applying". Maybe this is a new initiative by the Embassy. If so, they should be careful, I think, as I agree that this reason may not be acceptable at appeal. In my earlier post I said that I would be happy to take such a refusal to appeal, especially where the applicant has already made one visit to the same sponsor and accommodation.

Thanks, also, for the interesting info on getting a land registry print out. I'm not sure how the logic ( if any) behind this refusal reason actually applies. I agree that the land registry print out might confirm the size of accommodation, but how does that help when assessing whether there is adequate accommodation ? For instance, there could be any number of people living in that accommodation. I understand that the onus must be on an applicant to provide proof that any accommodation in the UK is adequate, but does the ECO expect the applicant to provide land registry documents in every case, plus evidence of who lives in that accommodation ? If not, then the whole exercise of refusing an application on these grounds is pointless. Why would a land registry print out satisfy the ECO when he doesn't know how many people live in the accommodation ?

As I also said earlier to the OP, if he would like to PM me I would be happy to try to assist.

If it is a new initiative by the Embassy, it appears vastly to exceed what is stated in the Entry Clearance Guidelines for Maintenance and Accommodation (particularly for a visitor), and in the Advice to Sponsors - the latter merely states

"The following would be helpful.

A letter of sponsorship giving details of your occupation and salary and how you will provide support and accommodation for the applicant. There is no need to have this letter certified (in other words, signed) before a solicitor or commissioner for oaths to confirm it is genuine."

If they are willing to accept that a sponsor's letter is genuine without certification, it is disingenuous to impose additional requirements such as Land Registry documents, particularly when, as stated above, this wouldn't confirm how many people live there. In webby1812's case it's just plain daft when he has submitted a council tax bill, which will give an indication of the size of the property by its Band rating, and shows the 25% discount for sole occupancy. (But I think webby has more serious issues to confront, without discussing them here).

[Kwasaki]

Every case is different but i would assume yours to be easier than ' webby ' .

I would say re-apply because I believe they don't just hand out UK visa's if you do the same as you did last time.

It is not strange for immigration in some countries to move the goal posts around a bit, it happens here.

Need more info from you dad being the sponser, look on UK immigration web site. ( homeoffice.gov.uk )

[NanLaew]

^^ Disingenuous indeed since there's no statement posted on their online help notes saying that you need all this extra land registry bs. I grabbed a picture of dad's house from google streetview and planned including it in her first successful application last year but decided against it.

My wife will be picking up her returned UK visit visa application on Thursday and I will post and let you know if she aced it again with dad's letter or if they have indeed invented a new hoop to jump through.

[raven0099]

Maybe there is a nasty little guy working in the embassy who enjoys nothing more than refusing visa,s , you do get people who take thier job very seriously !

[brian272727]

Applying in 5-6 weeks time for a return visitor visa and I will be supplying more documentation than ever including this land registry document.

I cannot afford to take any chances.

[norrona]

Maybe there is a nasty little guy working in the embassy who enjoys nothing more than refusing visa,s , you do get people who take thier job very seriously !

I concur;)

[Mercury]

I have always been of the opinion that providing far more than they set out as minimum requirements cannot harm your case. This applies everywhere as you remove ambiguity and show yourself as thorough and committed. With such a weight of information you not only cover their requirements but also push aside most if not all of their potential objections, should they feel pedantic.

[NanLaew]

OK, I said I would post an update on the wife's latest visit visa application.

After a false start on Thursday (forgot the receipt paperwork!), she popped in yesterday afternoon and emerged with a 2-year multiple entry visit visa!

There you go, she paid about 12k baht and was pretty sure she only asked for a 1-year visa since she didn't want to push her luck.

The point is the letter from my dad saying we would be pitching up again at his place was accepted as sufficient proof which makes me more inclined to think that the OP's letter from his father was totally missed in his girlfriends application. Now you did get a new letter from your dad didn't you?

I guess it shows that there may be at least one UK visa processing officer who isn't a bloody-minded and vindictive desk jockey. The jury is still out if there is a new hurdle for those that chose not to get married though.

Good luck on the re-ap!

[theoldgit]

^^^^^

Congratulations NanLaew, a good result.

I think there is a danger when submitting second and subsequent applications for tourist visas than one become blasé and has the belief that one the first visa has been granted, and properly complied with, subsequent visas will automatically follow, this is clearly not the case.

Repeat applications require just as much effort as the first with nothing being taken for granted.

Once again, job well done NanLaew, enjoy the trips.

[JohnLeech]

This is an extremely bizarre reason for rejection.

To get a print out of the land registry for a property is however very easy and can be done on-line. Go to landregistry.gov.uk and put in the postcode. If this is what they want let them have it and re-apply immediately or go down the family visa route. I cannot believe this nonsense would be acceptable at appeal!

A detailed print out costs £4. Worth doing this anyway but what an unbelievable reason for rejecting a tourist visa!!!

Unbelievable, disingenuous, whatever, why not just do what they ask and re-apply? If you have complied with their specific requirement then it would be difficult to refuse it again.