Ubon Ratchathani, Nakhon Sawan Picked As Principal Nuclear Power Plant Locations

[tim armstrong]

I live near Nakhon Sawan. Maybe This explains why there has been so much infrastructure and commercial development in the last 3 yrs. The town is booming (no pun intended. Concerns about management expertise maybe unrealistic. The building timeframe is quite long, and the science will have advanced a lot by then. Maybe it will be Thorium or something else. But good for Thailand to even think of alternative energy sources. I'm optimistic.

[damian7000]

I think those "electric wires" are actually telephone wires.

yea, with internet cable and power cable and megaphone cable and anything else you can imagine cable twisted and knotted around them.

[tonytidbury]

K1W1: I am afraid you haven't the vaugest notion about nuclear power. Thorium reactors are radioactive.

Reinweise: Thank you for (approximately) plagiarising my previous post to the BP. Saved me the bother.

"Quality in absolutely everything is elementary and essential.

Only then can it be adequately, but never absolutely, safe.

A "questioning attitude" is the basis.

At all levels people are necessary saying ….

"No, I will not do that. It is not safe."

And the boss has to accept.

In a culture where questioning is discouraged, subservience is deeply ingrained, and responsibility is, let’s say, a vague concept, developing nuclear power is irresponsible."

[NanaFoods]

Think BIG.

Details, viability, and consequences are ... inconsequential.

Big projects offer big opportunities in Thailand.

I'm sure a huge project like this has certain bigwigs in gov't, who are seated in the lucky seats and wearing the right tassels on their sleeves, salivating over the enormous possibilities to enrich themselves and their construction and land-owning buddies.

Even if built by international contractors, Thai law dictates labor and operation must be majority Thai.

Unless they make some kind of exception in this project, that is a disaster in the making.

If the Thorium idea proposed on the first page is viable, that should be considered first, IMO.

I have not read up on that tech, but it sounds interesting based on the what the poster wrote...

[canmaninpat]

Why is it that I feel that nuclear power plants in Thailand would be a disaster just waiting to happen.

They should go with Thorium reactors. The Chinese are building three to power the next generation of energy requirements in China. Completely safe (as in non-radioactive), impossible to use as a military weapon and perfect for power generation. Anything else is just a recipe for disaster and bound to cause friction with Burma, China, Vietnam, Indonesia, India, Japan, USA...

Also do they really want to be making another massive target for power hungry elite to fight over? Isn't there enough division in Thailand already without having to protect the people from the potential of nuclear weapons and radioactive fallout? Can't you just see a certain person salivating over the possibility for manipulation and self promotion with this one?

The only way for thorium reactors to happen is if Thai people get a clue, get vocal and force the issue about not wanting radioactive weapons grade nuclear. Go safe, go green and use Thorium. It's truly the way of the future and will make Thailand a world leader in energy creation.

A Thorium reactor can be used to boil water and therefore run steam generators. There is enough Thorium in the world to last for thousands of years of energy production at a fraction of the cost and effort that uranium or other highly radioactive and dangerous elements require. It cannot "melt down" as if it gets too hot it expands and self cools. It is the perfect fuel to use for steam powered turbines heated by the heat from the Thorium nuclear reaction.

Thorium salt reactors still require U233 to get them going. The Thorium then decays to U232 which is highly unstable and emits high energy gamma rays; very nasty stuff. True a Thorium reactor will not melt down but the radiation problem cannot be under estimated. The waste contains U232 which has a half life of 50 years and needs to be stored and heavily shielded.

[KhunHay]

I suppose Ubon Ratchathani will have its resistance as well, why not the deep south, any objections here?

I agreed with you. Why chould provincial such as Nahkhon Sawan which primarily are full of rice farming? This governement is too stupid to realise that.

[lingyaiyai]

Think BIG..........

BANG!

[KhunHay]

Why is it that I feel that nuclear power plants in Thailand would be a disaster just waiting to happen.

That is not just a feeling mate, this has disaster written all over it.

Anyone who believes they can pull this off needs to go no further than to look outside (if you live in the city), where they can look up and see the unbelievable mess of electric wires dangling above them, or in some cases falling down to the ground. Maybe it would be a good idea to get "electric power" down first, then move forward. My power still goes out when it thunders or has the slightest rain.

This politician are jokers that only interested in skimming off money. Who cares about the safety of ordinary people? Why dont they build at Sukumvit? Inside PM house will be nice.

[meelousee]

Ok I dont want to put a huge post to let folks know that the newer reactors are clean and can use recycled fuel. They are also dangerous. They need huge amounts of water. It will take 15 years to build a good one.

But the location is very wrong. Back to the south is safer has more water(sea water)

Next up why does Thailand need one? That is in the economics, Thailand's reserves of fossil fuel is very small compared to Vietnam, Bangladesh and Malaysia as examples. And Thailand is growing 3% faster, than the first two while Malaysia is near stagnant in terms of economic growth. And currently in the negatives since 1/2010.

Thailand on the other hand is paying out external debts in gold (see charts .tradingeconomics.com} Recent purchase of 20 tons of gold to stay in balance and keep exports up. The danger is that the exports are consumer items and the rest of the world consumers are running out of cash and by Dec. 2010 the exported items will gather dust on the shelf.

So without a real cheap alternative fuel for the future, Thailand is destined to falter across the board. Trade, exchange, exports, fail and supply will be 10 fold greater and demand will be zero. Year prediction 2020

The only thing that will change this is an Asian war, or a catastrophic natural disaster.

[Soutpeel]

Even if built by international contractors, Thai law dictates labor and operation must be majority Thai.

Unless they make some kind of exception in this project, that is a disaster in the making.

Thai law doesnt dictate that, I will cite a comparable arrangement under the Thai Petroelum act,

Further under IAEC regulations, Thailand needs to be granted to license to operate a commerical nuclear power plant ie they need to follow the stated rules and regs.

If Thailand chose not to follow the dictates of the IAEC, the consequnce would be Thailand would not be provided with the fuel to run these stations, therefore leaving them with a very expensive "white elephant"

In my experience with construction and operations of PWR's in various parts of the world, the plants would be run for between 3-5 years by the nuclear construction company appointed for construction and comissioning ie someone like Framatome (or whatever they are called these days) while training is on-going.

So to the doomers/ gloomers tree huggers on TV discussing this topic...go and put your tinfoil hats back on....the sky is not falling...

[meelousee]

Ah, let's see it's too dangerous in the south,

so lets put the nuclear basket of eggs closer to

Hun Sen's rational world view....

And sad that is only 1/3 of the location problem. Where will the rice farmers get their water? I guess the Thais can sell glowing rice to Japan, they love glowing stuff like genetically modified fish, puppies and flowers that glow in the dark

[fxe1200]

Gee I'm old enough to remember what happened in Chernobyl, Ukraine.

Those Soviets were not newbies by any means as far as the nukes were concerned.

But their safety measures failed due to personal negligence, human error, faulty notification system or whatever.

The magnitude of the disaster was horrendous..... 

Do not forget, that still today highly radioactive Russian and already exported European waste, is beeing stored in a very cool place: underneath the open skies of Sibiria. An urgent problem still to be solved. And I do not consider Thais are being more accurately when it comes to waste managment. Just have a look at the roadsides around, or see attached file, business as usual.

[Sailfish1]

How can Thais build a nuclear power plant. Sure, the engineering and construction management will be done by another country (US, Germany, France, maybe even Japan or Korea), but trusting Thai workers to do the actual work is toooooooo risky!! Thai engineers, supervisors, all the way down to the lowest laborer do a baaaaaaad job. They have no concept of quality work and will make too many mistakes and never build it in strict accordance with the plans.

The safest way is to bring in all foreign workers to build the nuclear plants and then bring in foreign workers to operate them. That's the only way Thailand won't have a huge nuclear disaster.

[tomyummer]

Oh my gosh. Burma's getting one (or two), Thailand's been wanting one for a while. Burma is planning one over the mountain range of Hua Hin. So, if Bangkok will be uninhabitable in 7 years, Saraburi will become beach front coastline with flood water leaving central Thailand submerged, murdering militants from the south, out of control floods and fires from the north, angry Cambodians from the east, where else can we live in Thailand? And now nuclear plants?

And to actually think Thailand can build a nuclear power plant? Forget just the land settlement (soft strata) alone, and inability of completing projects on time and within budget, who is supposed to build it and run it? The same engineers that graduated with the Mathaput power-plant engineers? The engineers that helped to build Suvarnabhumi's runways or decided to divert floods to outer neighborhoods? Can you imagine when and where they decide to hide the nuclear waste or have it 'run' off to? Or how about the engineers building the flood walls for Bangkok? Oops, sorry, none in the pipeline.

And the most important question, who will be in charge of the oversight of the project and running of the plants? Oh, the guys running the tsunami warning systems, right. Forgot.

I can just see where a few nuts and bolts being left out of the reactor (to sell on the side) then during some stage of protest by any colored shirt the power plants are stormed, and of course no protection from security as they so often just sidestep out of the way of the hordes of colored shirts, then some protester decides to light up a cigarette or relieve himself at the base of the leaking cooling tower.

I just can't imagine a nuclear power-plant in the hands of Thailand. I'm probably just paranoid.

[tomyummer]

Gee I'm old enough to remember what happened in Chernobyl, Ukraine.

Those Soviets were not newbies by any means as far as the nukes were concerned.

But their safety measures failed due to personal negligence, human error, faulty notification system or whatever.

The magnitude of the disaster was horrendous... 

Oh, don't worry, we don't know the words 'negligence' or 'human error' in Thailand.

[SomTumTiger]

Does anyone else think it is a bad idea for Thailand to have a nuclear reactor?

[rockyysdt]

I think those "electric wires" are actually telephone wires.

yea, with internet cable and power cable and megaphone cable and anything else you can imagine cable twisted and knotted around them.

You mean like this?

Edited September 20, 2010 by rockyysdt

[SiangDeeMahk]

I am picturing the Thai version of Homer Simpson at the control panel...

What's Thai for "DOH!"?

I actually know a Thai girl who uses a Thai word in moments and situations exactly like where we'd insert a hearty "DOH".

It's "ตึง" (dteung) which normally has a middle tone and means "taut" or "deaf"... but in this case is performed with a comical-sounding rising tone.

I guess it's really more of a sound effect/comic vocalization, than a word. But that's what she says.

Holy cow, was that , or WHAT?? LOL

Anyway.. a NUCLEAR Thailand.. ? for REAL?? Someone is clearly Mai Dtem Baht!

I think that's just about the more terrifying thing I can imagine. Try to think what it would be like, with Thais running nuclear reactors? I mean, even smaller mammals will respond to warning horns and blinking lights. You can even each the animals to hit levers and press buttons in response to specific stimuli, and they'll do it. But do you think a roomfull of lifelong "mai bpen rai'ers" will? Can we possibly afford to have nuclear power (and waste) present in a culture that values saving face more than telling the truth?

But seriously, the only way the REST OF THE WORLD should ever allow Thailand to have nuclear installations, is if they are solely and exclusively built, and FULLY operated 24/7, by foreigners. I mean, ZERO Thai influence. Period.

But of course, that can never happen. So, I'm scared.

On a further note,, aren't there better solutions, in a sundrenched nation such as this?

[RKASA]

Assuming it would ever even get completed....

They can't build roads correctly, build an airport without cutting corners and stealing money, or even earth electric in a house. Who led them to believe they could build a Nuclear power plant?

Lord, save us all.

China the seller. or you can just buy the power from the same plant next door in Cambodia where it will be if they don't build it here.

[Wozzit]

How can Thais build a nuclear power plant. Sure, the engineering and construction management will be done by another country (US, Germany, France, maybe even Japan or Korea), but trusting Thai workers to do the actual work is toooooooo risky!! Thai engineers, supervisors, all the way down to the lowest laborer do a baaaaaaad job. They have no concept of quality work and will make too many mistakes and never build it in strict accordance with the plans.

The safest way is to bring in all foreign workers to build the nuclear plants and then bring in foreign workers to operate them. That's the only way Thailand won't have a huge nuclear disaster.

I remember when the Chinese decided to built a nuclear plant at Daya Bay some 25 years or so ago - only a decade or so after the country had begun to settle down after the Cultural Revolution. Not only was the location only about 50 kms from Hong Kong, the prevailing wind in winter would drive any emissions right into the city. There were huge outcries, but the plant was built anyway. The two reactors were designed by the French and built by the French and Chinese. No radioactive monitoring stations in Hong Kong have ever picked up any increased levels of radioactivity since the plants opened.

There are strict international controls on these sort of plants. They will certainly be built largely by a foreign entity with expertise in such construction and safety.

[stevotoo]

Another worry- perhaps a bigger one, is how and where will the nuclear waste be transported?

By road through Bangkok to Laem Chabaeng? (Another health risk for MapTaphut and everywhere between Nakhon Sawan and the port)

By rail... I hope not, given the recent accidents

Edited September 20, 2010 by stevotoo

[buddy]

They should go with Thorium reactors. The Chinese are building three to power the next generation of energy requirements in China. Completely safe (as in non-radioactive), impossible to use as a military weapon and perfect for power generation. Anything else is just a recipe for disaster and bound to cause friction with Burma, China, Vietnam, Indonesia, India, Japan, USA...

Also do they really want to be making another massive target for power hungry elite to fight over? Isn't there enough division in Thailand already without having to protect the people from the potential of nuclear weapons and radioactive fallout? Can't you just see a certain person salivating over the possibility for manipulation and self promotion with this one?

The only way for thorium reactors to happen is if Thai people get a clue, get vocal and force the issue about not wanting radioactive weapons grade nuclear. Go safe, go green and use Thorium. It's truly the way of the future and will make Thailand a world leader in energy creation.

A Thorium reactor can be used to boil water and therefore run steam generators. There is enough Thorium in the world to last for thousands of years of energy production at a fraction of the cost and effort that uranium or other highly radioactive and dangerous elements require. It cannot "melt down" as if it gets too hot it expands and self cools. It is the perfect fuel to use for steam powered turbines heated by the heat from the Thorium nuclear reaction.

Totally agree,

Thorium reactors are the way for the World to get its energy safely with no dangerous by products and consign nuclear reactors to the history of old technology.

Unfortunetely Thorium reactors have the very powerful Nuclear reactor lobby rallied against them, Thorioum reactors were proposed in the European Union but the French who dominate the Nuclear industry in Europe completely closed the debate down...now you dont hear a squeek about Thorium reactors from the French dominated European Union.

Does anybody know who is going to supply Thailand the nuclear technology and know how to build and maintain these nuclear plants?

[silk]

Why is it that I feel that nuclear power plants in Thailand would be a disaster just waiting to happen.

That is not just a feeling mate, this has disaster written all over it.

Anyone who believes they can pull this off needs to go no further than to look outside (if you live in the city), where they can look up and see the unbelievable mess of electric wires dangling above them, or in some cases falling down to the ground. Maybe it would be a good idea to get "electric power" down first, then move forward. My power still goes out when it thunders or has the slightest rain.

I fully agree with you

[silk]

How can Thais build a nuclear power plant. Sure, the engineering and construction management will be done by another country (US, Germany, France, maybe even Japan or Korea), but trusting Thai workers to do the actual work is toooooooo risky!! Thai engineers, supervisors, all the way down to the lowest laborer do a baaaaaaad job. They have no concept of quality work and will make too many mistakes and never build it in strict accordance with the plans.

The safest way is to bring in all foreign workers to build the nuclear plants and then bring in foreign workers to operate them. That's the only way Thailand won't have a huge nuclear disaster.

agreed. Had my house painted by Thais while I was away (first time - I learned froom it for next time). Now I have spots of paint on all windows, window frames and the floor. This is not their responsibility was the answer, when I complained. How would this nuclear power plant be built?

[SamritT]

If N Korea, Burma, Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, and especially the FRENCH can have Nuclear, why not Thailand? Are you saying we are worst them them? Especially compared to the FRENCH?

[asiawatcher]

Why is it that I feel that nuclear power plants in Thailand would be a disaster just waiting to happen.

That is not just a feeling mate, this has disaster written all over it.

Anyone who believes they can pull this off needs to go no further than to look outside (if you live in the city), where they can look up and see the unbelievable mess of electric wires dangling above them, or in some cases falling down to the ground. Maybe it would be a good idea to get "electric power" down first, then move forward. My power still goes out when it thunders or has the slightest rain.

I can just see the Reds next protest - seize the nuclear reactor and put gas bottles with petrol cans on top, boys in black with snipers rifles to set them off and burn a few buses to block the road on the way in or simple tyre walls and razor wire. Nothing like mob rule and no consequence of actions!

Actually I am only kidding - I was trying to figure out who would gain the most from this? Which Minister? Whose family? You can see the budget in billions and already the percentages are being divided! TiT.

[silk]

If N Korea, Burma, Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, and especially the FRENCH can have Nuclear, why not Thailand? Are you saying we are worst them them? Especially compared to the FRENCH?

You missed the point. It is not about comparison to other countries, it is about security in YOUR country, this is what people on the forum are worried about. Please enlighten us with information about thai companies (100%) who are world leaders of any kind, because of their invention, expertise, responsibility ect.

[thaimite]

You missed the point. It is not about comparison to other countries, it is about security in YOUR country, this is what people on the forum are worried about. Please enlighten us with information about thai companies (100%) who are world leaders of any kind, because of their invention, expertise, responsibility ect.

To get away from the Thai bashing that this topic seems to be degenerating in to, while I am concerned about a nuclear reactor in Ubon especially if it not of the Thorium type (and anybody who does not know the difference should read this link) I have worked in Thailand and there are very many good engineers who work hard and diligently and would be very capable of doing a good job with the right supervision and guidance. What is more worrying is the way the management force these people to cut corners to reduce costs because of the tea money that was paid to win the contract, and this is what lets Thailand down

[silk]

You missed the point. It is not about comparison to other countries, it is about security in YOUR country, this is what people on the forum are worried about. Please enlighten us with information about thai companies (100%) who are world leaders of any kind, because of their invention, expertise, responsibility ect.

To get away from the Thai bashing that this topic seems to be degenerating in to, while I am concerned about a nuclear reactor in Ubon especially if it not of the Thorium type (and anybody who does not know the difference should read this link) I have worked in Thailand and there are very many good engineers who work hard and diligently and would be very capable of doing a good job with the right supervision and guidance. What is more worrying is the way the management force these people to cut corners to reduce costs because of the tea money that was paid to win the contract, and this is what lets Thailand down

Exactly this is what most people living here are worried about, everybody has examples or made own experiences for what to be worried about. Your point is one of them.

[ratcatcher]

You missed the point. It is not about comparison to other countries, it is about security in YOUR country, this is what people on the forum are worried about. Please enlighten us with information about thai companies (100%) who are world leaders of any kind, because of their invention, expertise, responsibility ect.

To get away from the Thai bashing that this topic seems to be degenerating in to, while I am concerned about a nuclear reactor in Ubon especially if it not of the Thorium type (and anybody who does not know the difference should read this link) I have worked in Thailand and there are very many good engineers who work hard and diligently and would be very capable of doing a good job with the right supervision and guidance. What is more worrying is the way the management force these people to cut corners to reduce costs because of the tea money that was paid to win the contract, and this is what lets Thailand down

I have highlighted your post because you have hit the nail right on the head.

Capable,qualified and diligent engineers (workers) led by corrupt and inefficient managers only interested in kick backs and themselves.

Sounds a bit like capable and efficient soldiers led by incompetent officers only interested in themselves and their career prospects..

Perfect!