Ubon Ratchathani, Nakhon Sawan Picked As Principal Nuclear Power Plant Locations

[def2708]

who will get his share,....thaksin grand son or maybe great grand son????? lol

[shunima]

no worries about the waste. Some temple will work it into amulets for good luck and lottery win and the proof that they work is that they are warm and stay warm forever without battery. People will love them !

[Tokay]

At least we have total confidence in the locals.

[basjke]

If N Korea, Burma, Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, and especially the FRENCH can have Nuclear, why not Thailand? Are you saying we are worst them them? Especially compared to the FRENCH?

You missed the point. It is not about comparison to other countries, it is about security in YOUR country, this is what people on the forum are worried about. Please enlighten us with information about thai companies (100%) who are world leaders of any kind, because of their invention, expertise, responsibility ect.

Well even the mom and pop shop around the corner here has a ISO 9001 sign outside.Isn't that a quality reference.

[silk]

If N Korea, Burma, Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, and especially the FRENCH can have Nuclear, why not Thailand? Are you saying we are worst them them? Especially compared to the FRENCH?

You missed the point. It is not about comparison to other countries, it is about security in YOUR country, this is what people on the forum are worried about. Please enlighten us with information about thai companies (100%) who are world leaders of any kind, because of their invention, expertise, responsibility ect.

Well even the mom and pop shop around the corner here has a ISO 9001 sign outside.Isn't that a quality reference.

This answers the questions

[bangon04]

I suppose Ubon Ratchathani will have its resistance as well, why not the deep south, any objections here?

Probably the best solution would be to put them just over the border in Cambodia or Laos. Then if anything goes wrong at least it is not the fault of Thailand.

In fact I heard there is a piece of derelict land near the border with Cambodia - Prea Vihear or something like that, I forget the name.... built on solid rock, I believe.

Edited September 20, 2010 by bangon04

[bangon04]

Gee I'm old enough to remember what happened in Chernobyl, Ukraine.

Those Soviets were not newbies by any means as far as the nukes were concerned.

But their safety measures failed due to personal negligence, human error, faulty notification system or whatever.

The magnitude of the disaster was horrendous...

Oh, don't worry, we don't know the words 'negligence' or 'human error' in Thailand.

But we do understand the concept of graft and producing white elephants to make opportunities for graft. (aircraft carrier anyone?)

Why not adopt the Austria solution? I am old enough to remember Zwentendorf in the late 70s. Austrian government decided to build their flagship reactor at a border town, close to a neighbour. Cost a lot of money. Then they decided to hold a national referendum on the introduction of nuclear pwer in Austria. Guess what - the people spoke and the reactor was never commissioned .

Now this is a business model which would work very well in Thailand.

[basjke]

I suppose Ubon Ratchathani will have its resistance as well, why not the deep south, any objections here?

Probably the best solution would be to put them just over the border in Cambodia or Laos. Then if anything goes wrong at least it is not the fault of Thailand.

In fact I heard there is a piece of derelict land near the border with Cambodia - Prea Vihear or something like that, I forget the name....

pre vinegar??

Edited September 20, 2010 by basjke

[featography]

but I very much doubt that they'd fail to take the threat of it seriously, and so there wouldn't be too many corners cut I'm sure

Lets look at the bright side... If there was a melt down, think of all the glow in the dark babies that the parents could send into the cities to earn a living as a freak show.

Some weeks ago an expert in the field of Nuclear power plants, who lives here in Thailand gave an impressive explanation with documents supporting the argument that Thailand is the last place that should have ONE nuclear power plant. He also stated that Thailand is one of a minority countries that has year round unlimited wind, and wind powered generators would be cost effective, efficient, and totally harmless. It is his fear that kick backs, corruption, no safety enforcement, or practice of safety laws and rules, in all Thai life would be a recipe for disaster. Not only would a nuclear mishap probably kill a million Thai, but the winds would carry the fallout to other countries as well. This scares me mak mak.

[Bagwan]

If N Korea, Burma, Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, and especially the FRENCH can have Nuclear, why not Thailand? Are you saying we are worst them them? Especially compared to the FRENCH?

Ma'am, I'm a WASP (an Anglo Saxon Protestant) and my genes demand that I despise the French. However I do recognise they  successfully shoot rockets into space, build nuclear power stations, have trains that run at least 5 times faster than those of Thailand, they played a leading role in the development of the world's first SST and has been home and provided facilities to several scientific greats. Madame Curie discovered 2 elements and without her work on atomic theory and particularly that of nuclear physics this thread would not exist.. In scientific matters, indeed any technological field, Thailand cannot be considered within light years of France. What can Thailand do, apart from growing rice very inefficiently?

You are sadly misinformed and your post makes you look ignorant. You appear to be another of the multitudinous host of victims of what passes for a system of education in Thailand.

 

[metisdead]

If N Korea, Burma, Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, and especially the FRENCH can have Nuclear, why not Thailand? Are you saying we are worst them them? Especially compared to the FRENCH?

Ma'am, I'm a WASP (an Anglo Saxon Protestant) and my genes demand that I despise the French. However I do recognise they  successfully shoot rockets into space, build nuclear power stations, have trains that run at least 5 times faster than those of Thailand, they played a leading role in the development of the world's first SST and has been home and provided facilities to several scientific greats. Madame Curie discovered 2 elements and without her work on atomic theory and particularly that of nuclear physics this thread would not exist.. In scientific matters, indeed any technological field, Thailand cannot be considered within light years of France. What can Thailand do, apart from growing rice very inefficiently?

You are sadly misinformed and your post makes you look ignorant. You appear to be another of the multitudinous host of victims of what passes for a system of education in Thailand.

 

[fxe1200]

If N Korea, Burma, Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, and especially the FRENCH can have Nuclear, why not Thailand? Are you saying we are worst them them? Especially compared to the FRENCH?

Because it is like driving non stop towards a bridge and the bridge is not even built.

Nobody knows where to safely store all that radiactive waste yet, and I suppose Thailand should have a solution before they turn nuclear, and also calculate these storage costs for the next 10 or 20 thousand years into the KWH produced. Then solar power is by far cheaper and creates 100 times the jobs, than nuclear power.

Or may be you want the radioactive waste being shoved underneath your house. Then for sure things look differently.

[basjke]

Or may be you want the radioactive waste being shoved underneath your house. Then for sure things look differently.

Like it or not,living in Thailand for 16 years,I know it will happen anyway.

[Soutpeel]

How can Thais build a nuclear power plant. Sure, the engineering and construction management will be done by another country (US, Germany, France, maybe even Japan or Korea), but trusting Thai workers to do the actual work is toooooooo risky!! Thai engineers, supervisors, all the way down to the lowest laborer do a baaaaaaad job. They have no concept of quality work and will make too many mistakes and never build it in strict accordance with the plans.

The safest way is to bring in all foreign workers to build the nuclear plants and then bring in foreign workers to operate them. That's the only way Thailand won't have a huge nuclear disaster.

I remember when the Chinese decided to built a nuclear plant at Daya Bay some 25 years or so ago - only a decade or so after the country had begun to settle down after the Cultural Revolution. Not only was the location only about 50 kms from Hong Kong, the prevailing wind in winter would drive any emissions right into the city. There were huge outcries, but the plant was built anyway. The two reactors were designed by the French and built by the French and Chinese. No radioactive monitoring stations in Hong Kong have ever picked up any increased levels of radioactivity since the plants opened.

There are strict international controls on these sort of plants. They will certainly be built largely by a foreign entity with expertise in such construction and safety.

\

All correct, know the location very well, I was on that project...The French actually build the best PWR plants in the world....I shudder saying that complimenting the French about anything....

[Soutpeel]

Nobody knows where to safely store all that radiactive waste yet, and I suppose Thailand should have a solution before they turn nuclear, and also calculate these storage costs for the next 10 or 20 thousand years into the KWH produced. Then solar power is by far cheaper and creates 100 times the jobs, than nuclear power.

Or may be you want the radioactive waste being shoved underneath your house. Then for sure things look differently.

And which radioactive waste are we referring to ?

[fxe1200]

Or may be you want the radioactive waste being shoved underneath your house. Then for sure things look differently.

Like it or not,living in Thailand for 16 years,I know it will happen anyway.

You are absoutely right, Thailand reminds me of Juvenals "Panem et circensis"

Or have a look at the Pictures at Post #100 to find out about the stage Thailand is in:

It is frightening!!

[Deeral]

I am picturing the Thai version of Homer Simpson at the control panel...

Homer will probably be hired as a consultant.

they won't listen t him either!

[Deeral]

It'll probably end up as a PTT refinery with a sign outside with the word "OIL" crossed out and "NUCLEAR" written on in crayon

[basjke]

I try to practice the word already,chernochathani.

[Chonburiram]

Atomic power must be เศรษฐกิจพอเพียง , or did you hear "someone" complain about it?

[backsoon]

I wish all said above was withdrawn. Stop thaibashing...

Thai nuclear reactors (when built) will not produce nuclear waste.

Any type of N power plant needs huge amounts of water. BKK is constantly flooded, so it is a natural choice building site.

Silly remarks about ever-warm beads are out of order as disrespectful. Radioactive decay will provide the vibrantly coloured beads instead, with the traditional motto glowing in the dark.

Ms. SamritT is absolutely right. Thailand is not worse than N.Korea, Irak, Iran, Burma or Pakistan. Bringing in French was a 'geographic' or 'froydean' slip caused by hurt patriotic or other feelings.

Any references made above to inadequate safety/security/maintenance standards in Thailand are pure slender. Accidents in Thailand, if happen, are just this,- accidents, Will of God, unfortunate natural phenomena.

Blaming thai workers for lack of tradition of quality and irresponsibility is unfair. Try to do your work with your hands permanently locked in a wai.

Sorry, 'Time Out' for my prayers...

[katana]

...Thai nuclear reactors (when built) will not produce nuclear waste...

All reactors produce nuclear waste.

Why is it that I feel that nuclear power plants in Thailand would be a disaster just waiting to happen.

They should go with Thorium reactors. The Chinese are building three to power the next generation of energy requirements in China. Completely safe (as in non-radioactive), impossible to use as a military weapon and perfect for power generation. Anything else is just a recipe for disaster and bound to cause friction with Burma, China, Vietnam, Indonesia, India, Japan, USA...

Also do they really want to be making another massive target for power hungry elite to fight over? Isn't there enough division in Thailand already without having to protect the people from the potential of nuclear weapons and radioactive fallout? Can't you just see a certain person salivating over the possibility for manipulation and self promotion with this one?

The only way for thorium reactors to happen is if Thai people get a clue, get vocal and force the issue about not wanting radioactive weapons grade nuclear. Go safe, go green and use Thorium. It's truly the way of the future and will make Thailand a world leader in energy creation.

A Thorium reactor can be used to boil water and therefore run steam generators. There is enough Thorium in the world to last for thousands of years of energy production at a fraction of the cost and effort that uranium or other highly radioactive and dangerous elements require. It cannot "melt down" as if it gets too hot it expands and self cools. It is the perfect fuel to use for steam powered turbines heated by the heat from the Thorium nuclear reaction.

I'm not so sure about that. We were promised the same with the first nuclear power reactors in the 1950s. Cheap, clean, safe energy, too cheap to meter. Windscale, 5-mile island and Chernobyl etc quickly put paid to that. Additionally it turned out that a lot of the early reactors were actually being used to provide material for nukes, with energy production a secondary consideration. And when you take into account the cost of building, decommissioning and storing the waste, it's one of the most expensive forms of energy.

Also, thorium is radioactive and carcinogenic.

In the 1930s and 40s, thorium, in the form of thorotrast, was rather rashly used as a contrast medium for X-rays. However it was discontinued after it was found to accumulate in the body and cause cancer.

Edited September 20, 2010 by katana

[Jimjim]

Horrible, horrible, horrible idea for Thailand.

Many countries are moving AWAY from nuclear power for many reasons, including the radioactive waste it creates and how to dispose of it, what makes Thailand think this is a good idea?

[brahmburgers]

*shudder* such a bad idea on SO many levels... please dear God let the clean energy alternatives replace this idea instead.

Lots of good responses on this thread, but objections by farang in Thailand don't account to a wet noodle - as far as influencing the Powers That Be - namely: EGAT and their advisors Burns & Roe Asia, who are paid tens of millions of baht to write up a mis-named 'Feasibility Plan.' a.k.a. a foregone conclusion. It would be like a police station hiring advisors to advise them whether a pay raise was warranted or not. Do you think the paid advisors would report back that a pay raise was wrong?

I have yet to find a decent electrical plug that does not crackle and spark.

I think this will be another suvarnabhumi (long drawn out, a good little earner for those with their snouts in the trough, and ultimately a waste of resources) At least its not in my backyard

Although Thailand will pay a foreign company to oversee the construction, the actual construction and maintenance and radioactive garbage disposal will be done by Thais assisted my minimum wage (160 bt./day) Burmese laborers. Incidentally, Thai construction bosses are known to not pay the final month's wages for grunt workers. The bosses figure, "what are those grunts going to do about it - go make a formal complaint to the Labor Dept in Bkk? ha ha ha!"

No. But it's possible some grunt workers will do little bits of clandestine sabotage to the structure as revenge for being shafted where the sun don't shine.

a 'white paper' on why Thailand should not go nuclear 78 pages on .pdf - includes suggestions for cleaner, safer and cheaper alternative power sources.

[brahmburgers]

I remember when the Chinese decided to built a nuclear plant at Daya Bay some 25 years or so ago - only a decade or so after the country had begun to settle down after the Cultural Revolution. Not only was the location only about 50 kms from Hong Kong, the prevailing wind in winter would drive any emissions right into the city. There were huge outcries, but the plant was built anyway. The two reactors were designed by the French and built by the French and Chinese. No radioactive monitoring stations in Hong Kong have ever picked up any increased levels of radioactivity since the plants opened. There are strict international controls on these sort of plants. They will certainly be built largely by a foreign entity with expertise in such construction and safety.

\

All correct, know the location very well, I was on that project...The French actually build the best PWR plants in the world....I shudder saying that complimenting the French about anything....

I can agree the French are good at building nuclear power plants. They're not so good about detonating nuclear bombs in the Pacific Ocean though, but that's a slightly different topic.

As for the N Plant near HK. Is there a 'due by' date? In other words, when is is scheduled to be decommissioned? When that date rolls around, are the Chinese going to close it down, and simply put a big wall around it and some signs saying, "radioactive zone, no entry for 60,000 years"? ....or will they say, "Hey, we spent billions on this plant, it's been working well thus far, ....why close down a functional plant?" What would Thai officials do in such a scenario?

Here's another scenario: First some background. Years ago, residents of Sacramento California started a campaign to close down Rancho Seco nuclear power plant for safety concerns. They educated the populace, garnered enough votes. The plant was closed. No bloodshed, no riots. Can you imagine such a peaceful scenario in Thailand? ...considering the mega investment, the big shot VIP's vested in nuclear? Impossible. Heck, environmental campaigners get killed in Thailand (dozens in the past several years, tho we rarely read about 'em in newspapers). Can you imagine a fair vote (against the plant), and then the powers that be calmly shutting down the plant accordingly? Impossible scenario for Thailand.

As adept as the French or the Canadians or Americans or Japanese are at building nuke plants, none have come up with a good method for disposing of nuclear waste. Can the Thais do better?

[backsoon]

...Thai nuclear reactors (when built) will not produce nuclear waste...

All reactors produce nuclear waste.

Why is it that I feel that nuclear power plants in Thailand would be a disaster just waiting to happen.

They should go with Thorium reactors. The Chinese are building three to power the next generation of energy requirements in China. Completely safe (as in non-radioactive), impossible to use as a military weapon and perfect for power generation. Anything else is just a recipe for disaster and bound to cause friction with Burma, China, Vietnam, Indonesia, India, Japan, USA...

Also do they really want to be making another massive target for power hungry elite to fight over? Isn't there enough division in Thailand already without having to protect the people from the potential of nuclear weapons and radioactive fallout? Can't you just see a certain person salivating over the possibility for manipulation and self promotion with this one?

The only way for thorium reactors to happen is if Thai people get a clue, get vocal and force the issue about not wanting radioactive weapons grade nuclear. Go safe, go green and use Thorium. It's truly the way of the future and will make Thailand a world leader in energy creation.

A Thorium reactor can be used to boil water and therefore run steam generators. There is enough Thorium in the world to last for thousands of years of energy production at a fraction of the cost and effort that uranium or other highly radioactive and dangerous elements require. It cannot "melt down" as if it gets too hot it expands and self cools. It is the perfect fuel to use for steam powered turbines heated by the heat from the Thorium nuclear reaction.

I'm not so sure about that. We were promised the same with the first nuclear power reactors in the 1950s. Cheap, clean, safe energy, too cheap to meter. Windscale, 5-mile island and Chernobyl etc quickly put paid to that. Additionally it turned out that a lot of the early reactors were actually being used to provide material for nukes, with energy production a secondary consideration. And when you take into account the cost of building, decommissioning and storing the waste, it's one of the most expensive forms of energy.

Also, thorium is radioactive and carcinogenic.

In the 1930s and 40s, thorium, in the form of thorotrast, was rather rashly used as a contrast medium for X-rays. However it was discontinued after it was found to accumulate in the body and cause cancer.

Oh Dear! I'm afraid I've wasted my humour on katana...

Not the Thai reactors, silly... There is nothing 'super' about your 'member' today. Try using another one...

[hhiser]

Apologies for wandering a bit of topic but I feel that in a situation such as this (if these projects go ahead) and there are safety issue corners found to be cut because somebody influential wanted their piece of the budget pie they should be publicly executed.

I'm not kidding.

I would add the method of execution should be slow and painful. A disease would be great something like the pneumatic plague or Ebola.

[whybother]

I would add the method of execution should be slow and painful. A disease would be great something like the pneumatic plague or Ebola.

"pneumatic plague" - is that the disease that causes the body to inflate until it explodes?

Edited September 21, 2010 by whybother

[moetownblues]

If N Korea, Burma, Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, and especially the FRENCH can have Nuclear, why not Thailand? Are you saying we are worst them them? Especially compared to the FRENCH?

Basically the opinion of most is that Thailand cannot be trusted to build and maintain such a facility. Thailand is still 40 yrs behind the rest of the world giving them such a plant is dangerous they will blow themselves up. You wouldn't let your 1 yr old play with boiling water would you?

[hhiser]

I would add the method of execution should be slow and painful. A disease would be great something like the pneumatic plague or Ebola.

"pneumatic plague"  - is that the disease that causes the body to inflate until it explodes?

http://ringaringarosies.tripod.com/id3.html

http://www.wrongdiagnosis.com/p/plague/symptoms.htm

But if you knew of a disease that would cause the infected to inflate until they explode please share the name.