Thai Immigration Introduces Jail Time For Overstayers

[mongoose11]

This is exactly why I have for several years refused to be a part of thaivisa.. you people are a bunch of self righteous wanke_rs. Have none of you ever had troubles in your life?

In what way does a person on overstay affect any of you?

and how is it any of your business? I am not on overstay and have never in my 8 years overstayed but I still dont feel I have the right to go pointing my greasy finger at someone who may have fallen down on their luck. not every fallang here is rich. some people including friends of mine have had difficulties in keeping up with their visa situation and are standing on their own two feet here without momma or daddy paying or bailing them out.

Not every foreigner here on overstay is on overstay because of drugs alchohol or woman troubles. some have legitimate problems to over come.

Good post. You are indeed correct that there are so many opinionated t#ats on this forum that if they'd say what they write to your face - a slap would be deserved.

Why people feel so passionate about this subject beats me - so what - you everstayed a couple of days or a month - move on.

[Maestro]

I have to aplogise. I thought everything was clear to me but I find myself still puzzled about a couple of things and would be grateful for additional information.

...Pattaya One are not saying there has or will be a change of Immigration Rules...

The Pattaya Times Newspaper owned by Mr. Drew Noyes, seems to be at the top of the list at the moment. Have a look at this article which he has published on his website:

No change in visa overstay rules despite web rumor

... according to the head detention officer for the Immigration Bureau of the Royal Thai Police... " The enforcement guidelines for the governing statute strictly states that detention is mandatory only if the foreigner has overstayed for one year or more... "

When you say that you “are not saying there has or will be a change of Immigration Rules”, are you saying that the statement reported by Pattaya Times allegedly made by the head detention officer for the Immigration Bureau of the Royal Thai Police that “detention is mandatory only if the foreigner has overstayed for one year or more” is a rule that is valid and remains in effect without change? The problem is that these rules do not appear to have been published and therefore we cannot know what they really say. Have you got a way of getting hold of an official copy of these rules and posting them here?

[TCW]

Mt Maestro, to save my eyes bleeding from reading 20 pages, I hope when you do have the answers you need, that you will write an idiot's guide summarising for us poor souls what has or has not changed.

Or is the answer, as it is almost everywhere in Thailand, that it doesn't matter what the rules say it's how the police or immigration enforce them when you are standing in front of them that really matters, which is what Mr Miller seemed to be saying in his post above. Which would also mean Mr Noyes is correct and nothing has changed at all!

I need a drink.

TCW.

[tijnebijn]

My advise for the mods who posted on the thread is to make sure the informatrion is accurate before letting a thread like this go ahead again in the future ,

surprises me some , not maestro btw , did get involved on a personal note , responding on that and in my opinion totally garnished their reputation on my side what I thought of them .

Anyway I can't respond on moderation , I do respond now cause it isn't moderation what I am talking about but the personal interverence which imho doesn't fit for a mod because on this forum its all serious business and errors are not allowed , people can get panicked and it brings the whole forum discredit if it turns out to be total rubbish is it ?

sorry for my rant but I can't let it pass this time , excuse is not enough this time.

[Artisi]

What are your feelings on your own countries immigration policies? Are they tough enough? What does your country do with people who are on overstay? Have a think about it, and maybe you may answer some of those questions.

For all of us except our North Korean members, our countries do nothing to those on overstay except make them leave. Australia places a ban on travel to the country for a few years for overstayers but certainly doesn't put them in jail. No normal country places overstayers with money to pay for their tickets home and any fines in to the already over crowded jails

Not quite correct, Australia send you straight to Villawood detention centre where you sweat it out until such times as you are sent on your way. I think no different than what is being advised by Thai Immigration.

[harrry]

What are your feelings on your own countries immigration policies? Are they tough enough? What does your country do with people who are on overstay? Have a think about it, and maybe you may answer some of those questions.

For all of us except our North Korean members, our countries do nothing to those on overstay except make them leave. Australia places a ban on travel to the country for a few years for overstayers but certainly doesn't put them in jail. No normal country places overstayers with money to pay for their tickets home and any fines in to the already over crowded jails

Not quite correct, Australia send you straight to Villawood detention centre where you sweat it out until such times as you are sent on your way. I think no different than what is being advised by Thai Immigration.

Not if you have your ticket...they only send you there when you get caught.

[DP25]

Not quite correct, Australia send you straight to Villawood detention centre where you sweat it out until such times as you are sent on your way. I think no different than what is being advised by Thai Immigration.

That is only for refuges who obviously can not pay for their way home. If you can pay your way home it's off you go. Please show me a case where an American or European was put there for overstaying their visa.

[Pattaya46]

My advise for the mods who posted on the thread is to make sure the information is accurate before letting a thread like this go ahead again in the future, ...

Hi tijnebijn,

It's not ThaiVisa interest to avoid this kind of buzz and endless discussions. At this time this thread has already been read by more than 35,000 visitors since yesterday !

Edited September 25, 2010 by Maestro
Off-topic comment deleted.

[Thules]

It's not in ThaiVisa's interests either to risk its reputation by initiating confused visa information.

What has interested me is the sheer quantity of views/posts. One could be forgiven for thinking (prolonged) overstays are more common than we would have otherwise thought, and that the two threads on this subject made many particularly concerned (?).

[Pattaya46]

What has interested me is the sheer quantity of views/posts. One could be forgiven for thinking (prolonged) overstays are more common than we would have otherwise thought, and that the two threads on this subject made many particularly concerned (?).

I don't think there are so many guys in overstay. The "success" of this thread come in fact from many messages of guys who have valid visa but are very happy that those who don't will have "problems" in the future...

Sad, but it's what I feel.

[Thules]

^^ If you are correct, it would indeed be extremely sad, and indicate there are many sadists here on this forum.

[atyclb]

No idea...

To me they would make more money if everyone with a Visa could pay 1,900 baht at Immigration every 90 days for an extension.. Just thinking about the 100's per day on visa runs, Immigration get Nil baht, if everyone could go to immigration they would get 1,900 baht each person.. I feel sure that would be a lot more than the 'overstay' fees per year.

Like any other country Thailand has different kind of visa's and reasons for staying. You either qualify for one such reason or not. If not, than Thailand doesn't want you.

It would seem that the foreign geared entertainment industry is sufficiently huge enough to warrant interest bearing parties to make it less difficult to stay in Thailand. Pattaya development and current status is the result of this industry. Not just payoffs from girly bars, but major construction, major shopping centers, hotels, etc etc. It's hard to imagine all the entertainment venues closing and filling the city with family oriented tourism.

I too have had a non O visa valid for 1 year but had to exit every 90 days, God only know why. Its not checking in to tell immigration where you are, its simply leaving and returning.

Regarding corruption and influence receiving favorable treatment; it wasn't that long ago that USA had many of the same problems, just listen to old Bob Dylan songs... hattie carrol, medgar evers, hurricane, its alright ma, etc etc.

Corruption is more the system, than perhaps the problem, from a philosophical viewpoint.

[Rumpole]

If you are genuinly in hospital you won't have a problem as the hospital will inform immigration.

Don't ever count on it. You make the mistake of applying Western logic, where logic is mostly lacking. The only time I ever overstayed a visa in Thailand (or indeed anywhere else) was when I was unable to travel for medical reasons. Presenting a doctor's letter at the border simply caused the immigration officials to laugh, and still charge me for the two days overstay.

[retiredusn]

Lets get this subject off the net it serves no prepose. Just get a MOD to mod the mods

[MRDave]

I got pulled into immigration at the end of July, I had a double entry visa, I have overstayed one month due to the fact Thai immigration did not give my passport the correct stamp to start with.

They asked me if I was returning to Thailand before October, I said no so they say if not I would have to pay this huge fan they displayed on a large calculator while grinning at me and each other, so they then say if I can come back in October I wont have to pay this fine so I say yes

I will come back in October and they alter my passport with the correct date it should have had anyway, a victory for common sense! and the lesson here is to check your passport just in case the Thai who stamps it is not doing there job properly.

And no I will not go back in October.

[ajarnmark]

Would this not make the overstayers decide to stay even longer instead of actually leaving. If you had an overstayer that was planning to leave and go home, what incentive does he/she have to leave now? Amazing how people react to these things. People act as if Thailand is the only place on earth that has people overstay their visa. Lets see this for what it is...BS! Could you imagine if the UK or USA jailed an illegal immigrant as he was trying to LEAVE with the fine money in hand. A society is judged on how they treat the poor and incarcerated.

If you overstay in UK or USA and you happen to be a Muslim then you will be marked as a terrorist and will never see the justice or daylight in your lifetime. So Thailand still has more justice than other so-called civilised societies.

[Rumpole]

They are not in "disgusting Thai jails" but in the Immigration Detention Centre (IDC),

and according to witness it's not so bad as a prison.

That is not what Amnesty International thinks. They have been campaigning for years to have the IDC closed down.

[Soutpeel]

If you are genuinly in hospital you won't have a problem as the hospital will inform immigration.

Don't ever count on it. You make the mistake of applying Western logic, where logic is mostly lacking. The only time I ever overstayed a visa in Thailand (or indeed anywhere else) was when I was unable to travel for medical reasons. Presenting a doctor's letter at the border simply caused the immigration officials to laugh, and still charge me for the two days overstay.

If the process is followed at the hospital it will not be a problem, "Rump let me ask this ?....did you get the hosptial to sort this out for you, or did you just ask for a doctors note ??....

if you just asking for a doctors note only one could understand immigration official's amusement, as they know as well as we do, everything has a price in Thailand, waving a couple of k in front of a provincial doctor, the doctor will write what ever you want on the letter....

[Ulysses G.]

If you overstay in UK or USA and you happen to be a Muslim then you will be marked as a terrorist and will never see the justice or daylight in your lifetime. So Thailand still has more justice than other so-called civilised societies.

[robanywhere]

imho, i find the thailand visa system very generous, allowing scofflaws to overstay up to 42 days...

i wish the laws had more teeth wrt re-entry blacklisting, and then maybe bkk/pattaya would be rid of the east european hookers and african drug dealers/pimps starting to control the late night sois in upper sukhumvit....

[Dap]

If they want to clear out the rubbish, introduce a 1 month amnesty after that anyone who overstays should be fair game.

Fair enough

[Rumpole]

If you are genuinly in hospital you won't have a problem as the hospital will inform immigration.

Don't ever count on it. You make the mistake of applying Western logic, where logic is mostly lacking. The only time I ever overstayed a visa in Thailand (or indeed anywhere else) was when I was unable to travel for medical reasons. Presenting a doctor's letter at the border simply caused the immigration officials to laugh, and still charge me for the two days overstay.

If the process is followed at the hospital it will not be a problem, "Rump let me ask this ?....did you get the hosptial to sort this out for you, or did you just ask for a doctors note ??....

if you just asking for a doctors note only one could understand immigration official's amusement, as they know as well as we do, everything has a price in Thailand, waving a couple of k in front of a provincial doctor, the doctor will write what ever you want on the letter....

I had been in a provincial hospital which (at least in those days) had no provision for dealing with immigration on behalf of patients. In addition to the doctor's letter, I had billing information and other documentation from the hospital - also waived off as being irrelevant to the two-day overstay.

This episode was not a particularly big deal, just trying to counterbalance some of the posts here which suggest that immigration will automatically look benevolently upon those who overstay for medical reasons. Saying that "if the process is followed at the hospital there will be no problem" is all well and good, but not everyone will be able to avail themselves of the services of Bumrungrad or the handful of other hospitals which have medical tourism as a significant portion of their business.

Thankfully, this whole discussion is moot as far as I am concerned, as I have not had to contend with the Byzantine machinations of the Royal Thai Immigration service for several years.

Edited September 25, 2010 by Rumpole

[moe666]

I think thai byrocracy is very very retarded. The most idiotic law is that you have to have ticket in and out from thailand before you get visa.

Well the same rule is in place for a lot of countries not just Thailand, try getting into US on a one-way ticket as a tourist, you will not even get on the plane.....I know this from personal experience and I had a proper work visa for the US and they wouldn't let me one the plane unless I had a ticket out...

You think Thailand is bad mate, trying visiting some of the countries I have been to over the years as regards extrotion by Police, bullsh*t visa policies etc etc....Thailand is a lightweight in this regard, if you this this place is rough, would suggest you go running home to mummy and daddy and go an put your head under the duvet

I agree with Soutpeel 100 percent there are so many posters here that donot get it. Thailand is such a easy country to visit and spend time in but like all countries they want you to leave when your legal stay is up. Please go home or get another visa to remain legal.

People defend these scofflaws who over stay but they are the ones who make it hard on the legal stayers.

[moe666]

If you are genuinly in hospital you won't have a problem as the hospital will inform immigration.

Don't ever count on it. You make the mistake of applying Western logic, where logic is mostly lacking. The only time I ever overstayed a visa in Thailand (or indeed anywhere else) was when I was unable to travel for medical reasons. Presenting a doctor's letter at the border simply caused the immigration officials to laugh, and still charge me for the two days overstay.

If the process is followed at the hospital it will not be a problem, "Rump let me ask this ?....did you get the hosptial to sort this out for you, or did you just ask for a doctors note ??....

if you just asking for a doctors note only one could understand immigration official's amusement, as they know as well as we do, everything has a price in Thailand, waving a couple of k in front of a provincial doctor, the doctor will write what ever you want on the letter....

I had been in a provincial hospital which (at least in those days) had no provision for dealing with immigration on behalf of patients. In addition to the doctor's letter, I had billing information and other documentation from the hospital - also waived off as being irrelevant to the two-day overstay.

The whole episode was not a big deal, just trying to counterbalance some of the posts here which suggest that immigration will automatically look benevolently upon those who overstay for medical reasons. Saying that "if the process is followed at the hospital there will be no problem" is all well and good, but not everyone will be able to avail themselves of the services of Bumrungrad or the handful of other hospitals which have medical tourism as a significant portion of their business.

Thankfully, this whole discussion is moot as far as I am concerned, as I have not had to contend with the Byzantine machinations of the Royal Thai Immigration service for several years.

As has been stated many times on this thread you have to actually go to a immigration office before leaveing the country

[Maestro]

This story just won’t leave me alone, and pondering it over lunch it suddenly occurred to me that the following two reported statements do not contradict each other:

thaivisa.com, as quoted by Pattay One: “...anyone whose overstay is 42 days or longer is likely to be arrested...”

Head detention officer for the Immigration Bureau of the Royal Thai Police, as quoted by Pattaya Times: “The enforcement guidelines for the governing statute strictly states that detention is mandatory only if the foreigner has overstayed for one year or more”

The second statement means that for overstays below one year, detention is not mandatory, but this does not exclude the possibility that it is permissible at the discretion of immigration officers. In this scenario, if immigration started to use their discretion to detain overstayers more often than in the past it would indeed be a change in enforcement policy, would it not? In other words, the rule is not changed but the policy of enforcing is altered.

The following statement, on the other hand, contradicts directly the first statement, as I see it:

Unnamed Immigration Colonel, as quoted by Pattaya Times: “Foreigners must not be afraid to leave the Kingdom of Thailand when they wish. They will not be arrested for overstays less than 365 days”

This reminds me of two caveats that one often hears in Thailand:

a) Officials sometimes get their terminology mixed up. Recent example:

Sometimes, things get lost or mixed up in translation.

I think I will wait a couple of days – working days, that is – to see if this confusion/contradiction gets cleared up.

[Rumpole]

As has been stated many times on this thread you have to actually go to a immigration office before leaveing the country

Yes indeed. A great pity I did not have your all-encompassing knowledge at the time.

Edited September 25, 2010 by Rumpole

[sharecropper]

If Drew Noyes could use his influence and get hold of a copy of the enforcement guidelines he mentions, surely this could all be cleared up in one post?

[Badbanker]

Thailand, as in every sovereign country has laws which are attempted to be made to protect all people in this sovereign country. We, as guests in this sovereign country are required to conform to these laws.

Our duty in this sovereign country is to just try to stay legal and not overstay! Normally the only reason anyone has a problem with Immigration and its officers is they have broken pretty clear LAWS of this sovereign country.

Thailand's laws have been slowly updated to cope with problems, as they are perceived by law enforcement, to be required. I am a guest and as such, I may not agree with the laws but I must conform to them!

The problem with immigration and its law is its application! Every location and every officer has different guidelines both personal and professional on how to react in each situation. I believe this is the problem that is beginning to start presenting itself in the OP's thread.

I also believe this may rightfully so, be a hint of things to come.

Get legal and stay legal people! Immigration are very lenient and they are offended that many foreigners treat their immigration laws with such disdain.

BB

[Maestro]

Another off topic post has been deleted. From now on, such posts will be deleted without special mention but where a formal warning is considered necessary the member will be informed by PM.

[dannyh2000uk]

haven't read whole thread but I do rememeber 3 years ago i had a bad accident in Cambodia and ended up for months in trat hospital and post b&B recovering

and the immigration people down there could not have been more helpful, no back handers nothing.

ended up with about 5 months overstay all signed by them.

so my view is just come clean as early as you can, there is no excuse for just lazily overstaying,USA/UK would not tolerate

maybe thailand was just easier in the old days.

but ladies and gentleman since the 3 only land visa and then the 15 day down from 30 days I guess it is obvious which way it is going.

in the future computers will make everything more difficulat to try and bend slightly

sorry lecture over

love to all

dan

Edited September 25, 2010 by dannyh2000uk