Investment Visa – Uk Based

[LivinLOS]

So simple.. Made so difficult.. For no reason at all..

Whose name is the condo in ?? I doubt immigration will extend it to a second unrelated partner just because one party says they wish it so.. Same on the house paper / registration will be able to gain a visa.

[pkrv]

Hi LivinLOS and Maestro

Answers are as follows

14m transfered using FET/FETF and 4 letters called Bai Rap Rong (s),

Condominium in joint names.

Heavily engaged with the Royal thai Embassy London at this time - but they have never seen this before.

[Maestro]

...Heavily engaged with the Royal thai Embassy London at this time - but they have never seen this before.

A Thai embassy, respectively the consular section of an embassy, is not required to know about extensions of stay, only about visas. It is extremely rare to get correct and complete information from a consulate about extensions of stay. Good of them at the London embassy to be willing to learn from you.

[Maestro]

...14m transfered using FET/FETF...

For anybody wondering what the FETF (Foreign Exchange Transaction Form) looks like, there was a copy posted here:

[A_Traveller]

Just to note here, there may be an issue with this anyway, since the condominium is held in joint names, the authorities could, not unreasonably, take the view to apportion the investment, in which case the application would fail, since the level would only be 7m for either applicant. This point would be exacerbated if the source was a joint account in the UK.

Anyway, the Embassy will closed on Monday so the OP will have to wait a while longer. As noted this isn't singular nor unique, though in most cases this process would be done here, rather then there.

Regards

[Maestro]

Look at the extension according to paragraph 2.20 of Police Order 777/2551:

2.20 In the case of being a family member of an alien permitted a temporary stay in the Kingdom under Clauses 2.1, 2.2, 2.3, 2.5, 2.6, 2.7, 2.10, 2.12, 2.13, 2.14, 2.15, 2.16, 2.17, 2.21, 2.22, 2.26, or 2.29 hereof or Section 34(7) (applicable only to parents, spouse, children, adopted children, or spouse’s children):

Each permission shall be granted for no more than one year.

One person gets the "investment" extension under 2.5, his/her spouse gets the "dependent" extension under 2.20

Don't know how the investment requirement will be handled with joint ownership of the condominium unit. I wouldn't exclude the possibility that the embassy tells the OP one thing and the immigration office will handle the investment extension the opposite way. In other words, he won't know for sure until the day he submits his application for extension to his local immigration office.

I have now asked the question about the possibility of registration of joint ownership of a condo here in the Real Estate Forum, for discussion there.

[A_Traveller]

^ I may be in error but I'm of the opinion that the two individuals are not, under Thai law, recognised as 'a couple'.

Regards

[Maestro]

I was misled by the OP's "if a married couple" and his frequent use of "we" but you are right, he never mentioned that he and the other person were a married couple. I'll forget about him/them, then. All useful advice has already been posted.

[pkrv]

I should update you guys - the Royal Thai Embassy called me and we agreed to work together. From their perspective I have far more information on the subject than they do, and I am not under any time constraints.

They are very interested in the matter, and from my UK perspective are best positioned to help us. (And no we are not married, and they understand this upfront)

Their first question to me was what does this mean, what government agency is concerned?

"(3) Proof of investment to purchase or rent for a period not less than 3 years of unit in a condominium from an agency or government agency concerned at a price of not less than 10 million baht.

(6) Proof of combined investments as set out in clauses (3),(4) or (5) having a total value of not less than 10 million baht."

Well this is indeed the FET/FETF (plus other documents) issued by the Bank of Thailand (BOT) - and we have this. Effectively we have called upon (in Empires speak here) a Thai Capital Ship for support - This information will of course be verified by the Royal Thai Embassy London.

All documentation is fully in place and the reason for transferring funds fully and accurately documented (purchase of x/x Unit at The Park Chidlom condominium, 1 Soi Chit Lom etc)

This documentation is in my understanding held in its original form by the Thai Land Authority. We only have copies, as indeed does The Park Chidlom / Hemaraj.

So yes there is a second Thai Capital Ship we can call upon for aid. What is the Thai Land Registry office called and does anyone have contact details?

As I have said at this point this is simply a diplomatic exchange, but is proceeding well.

I don't know what will happen.

Edited October 24, 2010 by pkrv

[LivinLOS]

Don't know how the investment requirement will be handled with joint ownership of the condominium unit. I wouldn't exclude the possibility that the embassy tells the OP one thing and the immigration office will handle the investment extension the opposite way. In other words, he won't know for sure until the day he submits his application for extension to his local immigration office.

The exact same thing many have been telling the OP all along.. Overseas embassies, not being involved in giving 12 month extensions, often say complete rubbish when it comes to domestic extensions of stay. The OP refuses to process this information tho.

The OP needs to get a couple of non imm O's which in the UK is as easy as licking a stamp, and then get the information from the horses mouth, where they will extend, as even 2 offices dont do the same thing, or 2 officers on the same day.

[pkrv]

Don't know how the investment requirement will be handled with joint ownership of the condominium unit. I wouldn't exclude the possibility that the embassy tells the OP one thing and the immigration office will handle the investment extension the opposite way. In other words, he won't know for sure until the day he submits his application for extension to his local immigration office.

The exact same thing many have been telling the OP all along.. Overseas embassies, not being involved in giving 12 month extensions, often say complete rubbish when it comes to domestic extensions of stay. The OP refuses to process this information tho.

The OP needs to get a couple of non imm O's which in the UK is as easy as licking a stamp, and then get the information from the horses mouth, where they will extend, as even 2 offices dont do the same thing, or 2 officers on the same day.

I have many multiples of that level but am smart enough to not have it in Thailand (hows that condo market making out for ya a 14m investment a few years back probably under the 10m market price now).

Just recounting many years experience of Thai dealings.. all this 'sending huge info packs to irrelevant agencies' will be right out the window when you need to walk into immigration.. They are giving you a trivially easy way to do this, but you want to walk the hard road.. So will sign up to this thread and see how many weeks you waste pursuing this extension option, instead of taking the simple one on a plater and being out of there in a a day.

OK you don't have 10m THB invested in Thailand - well a 10m investment in Thailand is what this thread is about.

Actually the condo is now worth around 25m.

As I understand it - you do 90 day reporting on a retirement visa is that correct?

I am well aware that IF and it is a BIG IF we get an investment visa that the next question will be how do we renew it.

First things first though.

'LivinLOS' your contributions are actually not necessarily sound - I have already responded to this 'First things First' I don't have one of these and understand renewing may be a problem - what on earth is the point of arguing about renewing someting I don't have? I have already taken this onboard.

If I get such a visa which has NEVER BEEN ISSUED by the Royal Thai Embassy London - would you care to make a crazy eddy guess as to what my next actions would be

Edited October 24, 2010 by pkrv

[LivinLOS]

Your not getting it.. the VISA.. and the EXTENSION OF STAY.. Are 2 totally separate things, handled by separate ministries..

You can come in with a tourist visa, and get a 12 month extension of stay based in investment.. And you can come in with a VISA based on investment, and still be refused the same extension of stay. The visa (in this case, long term stay) becomes almost irrelevant. Its trivial to get a retirement or marriage non imm visa, yet very possible with that same visa to get denied the 12 month permission to stay of you dont make immigration happy and fulfil the requirement they demand. The visa is not your stumbling block, thats the easy part.

Once you understand that its the extension of stay, which is down to the immigration dept within Thailand, and that the issuing of any extension is down to the officers discretion, and the supporting docs, while they may have guidelines, are not firm, and come and go depending on mood of officer, time of day, and the changing of the tides. Then you would know the place to focus your energy is on satisfying the officer in immigration to grant the 12 month permission to stay (not the visa, your asking the wrong people, even issued a visa you will need to leave the country after 90 days if you dont get your extension of permission to stay).

I recently did a marriage extension.. the officer demanded multiple things he technically didnt need (according to the rule book), he demanded things I had differently when they were fine for others applying, he made me jump through hoops in his own little power game.. I then got what he asked for, and the next visit, they took all this stuff they demanded, removed it from my app, and put the app in for the extension. This is relevant because you need to understand this is all officer dependant, they make their own rules up and you have to make them happy locally, not print out rule no 267b on form 45T from something you read online. London is irrelevant when it comes to your 12 month permission to stay, its like going to the hospital to file a stolen car report, your in the wrong office, thats why they dont have the information to tell you.

Edited October 24, 2010 by LivinLOS

[LivinLOS]

If I get such a visa which has NEVER BEEN ISSUED by the Royal Thai Embassy London - would you care to make a crazy eddy guess as to what my next actions would be

[/size]

Thats not factual..

I have seen one (investor visa from uk) with my own eyes and even know someone who attained instant PR by investing the 40 mil baht system.

[pkrv]

If I get such a visa which has NEVER BEEN ISSUED by the Royal Thai Embassy London - would you care to make a crazy eddy guess as to what my next actions would be

[/size]

Thats not factual..

I have seen one (investor visa from uk) with my own eyes and even know someone who attained instant PR by investing the 40 mil baht system.

Yes I am aware that 40m THB is not actually the same as 10m THB - are you feeling OK?

[LivinLOS]

Maybe your missing the fact I mention two different visas.. Try reading it again slowly.

I have seen a investment visa, issued by the uk.. And I know someone with instant PR via a 40m investment (tho never seen his passport just know he has PR via that method).

[A_Traveller]

Have to add here, that whilst the Embassy is saying they have never done it, that is to my certain knowledge untrue. The correct statement would be they [the existing staff, who after all are rotated] have not undertaken this during their term. The other point is to differentiate between the initial visa and permission to stay. A 10M THB 'investment' visa can, and may be issued by the Embassy, but in the majority of cases, most would come here on a suitable visa [in principal after the 2006 changes you can even change a visa waiver stamp in the first 7 days] and then work the system locally to achieve the same ends, in my view less painfully.

It should, as has been stated, noted that the system here devolves authority to the individual officer dealing with the application, which can and does result in different interpretations of the same rule set even from visit to visit.

This is not just the case in immigration but other government agencies here, so one can be required to provide a swath of documentation for a specific purpose, go away get it at considerable expense, return, meet another officer who doesn't even look at but then processes the application on the basis of the data originally at hand. <sigh>

Regards

Edited October 25, 2010 by A_Traveller

[pkrv]

BTW guys thanks for informing me that the Royal Thai Embassy London may not be operating today - I guess this is Chulalongkorn Day which occurred on Saturday so carries over to the Monday.

Well it is good news to hear that these guys can issue such a Visa.

In my own mind IF we get this by working closely with the Embassy, I will be asking for a covering letter of support for future extensions.

But look guys, I am nowhere near that stage yet.

I will keep you updated.

BTW there has been an interesting development. It appears that the FET/FETF will now only be issued for transfers of 50k USD (up from 20k USD)

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/408051-tor-tor-3-new-procedures/

Edited October 25, 2010 by pkrv

[jazzbo]

from the movie screenplay for Clear and Present Danger (Jack Ryan -- Harrison Ford)

Jack Ryan: I'm here to rent the Huey.

Helicopter owner: We don't rent it anymore, but it is for sale.

Jack Ryan: How much?

Helicopter owner: Two million dollars.

Jack Ryan: Uh, my pilot and I will have to take it for a test drive.

Helicopter owner: Of course, you just have to leave a deposit.

Jack Ryan: How much is that?

Helicopter owner: Two million dollars.

"... I will be asking for a covering letter of support for future extensions" When seeking an extension based on P.O. 777/2551 2.5 the IMM Office in Bangkok will ask for the requisite documents... If one has a 'covering letter' from London, then IMM Bangkok will most likely accept the covering letter plus the requisite documents.

[pkrv]

Have to add here, that whilst the Embassy is saying they have never done it, that is to my certain knowledge untrue. The correct statement would be they [the existing staff, who after all are rotated] have not undertaken this during their term. The other point is to differentiate between the initial visa and permission to stay. A 10M THB 'investment' visa can, and may be issued by the Embassy, but in the majority of cases, most would come here on a suitable visa [in principal after the 2006 changes you can even change a visa waiver stamp in the first 7 days] and then work the system locally to achieve the same ends, in my view less painfully.

It should, as has been stated, noted that the system here devolves authority to the individual officer dealing with the application, which can and does result in different interpretations of the same rule set even from visit to visit.

This is not just the case in immigration but other government agencies here, so one can be required to provide a swath of documentation for a specific purpose, go away get it at considerable expense, return, meet another officer who doesn't even look at but then processes the application on the basis of the data originally at hand. <sigh>

Regards

Hi 'A_Traveller'

I found your post incredibly helpful and insightful - I have just taken time to fully digest it.

I guess you need to know some additional information about us. We are only over two weeks at a time and it took almost three years to get where we wish to be with a Bangkok Bank passbook savings account and full internet access (that's just because we are on a visa on arrival (sort of tourist visa) it's a type 53 account - god I even know that level of detail).

We don't have the luxury of time to do this in Thailand - though if this fails we may have to, which would be boring.

I read somewhere that there are about 50,000 Farang quota condominiums in Bangkok - we are not talking about a lot here. Of those probably only a tiny fraction were bought at above 10m THB. We are talking very small numbers here and across multiple countries US/GB/AUZ/NZ/JPN etc...

Essentially the documentation I have assembled is

Copy of the Foreign Exchange Transfer Form (FET/FETF) for an amount over US $20k

Copies of 4 letters called Bai Rap Rong for amounts under US $20k

The original Chanott ti din

A supporting letter from the CEO of Hemaraj a .SETI company

Certainly I have noted the comments here regarding renewal (But I am nowhere near that yet). If I succeed it would be prudent to diplomatically request the Royal Thai Embassy London to provide a letter to smooth any further renewals

I should hear back from the Embassy this afternoon - but this will just be based on my clarification that the FET/FETF was issued by the BOT, the supporting evidence of investment by a government agency.

I have no idea what they are going to say.

BTW the Chanott ti din is issued by the Department of Lands in our joint names - we shall see - I have noted the alternative strategies

http://translate.goo...Den%26prmd%3Div

Edited October 26, 2010 by pkrv

[pkrv]

Ohh and the blue house book - sorry PKRV

[jazzbo]

... diplomatically request the Royal Thai Embassy London to provide a letter to smooth any further renewals ... A letter from an MoFA Embassy that you bring to an IMM office may just as likely have the effect of waving a red-flag in front of a bull in that you are attempting to use a different jurisdiction to influence a decision which is solely the purview of the Bureau of Immigration ... Is their such a thing as 'diplomatic tone-deafness'?

... and when all is said and done what you most likely will receive from the RT Embassy in UK (unless your letter from the SET Co.indicates some potential business arrangement) is a Non-IMM '

O' Visa just like the hoi polloi.

Edited October 26, 2010 by jazzbo

[jazzbo]

/their/there/ -- but what the heck -- from Trading Places:

Pawnbroker:

I'll give you 50 bucks for it.

Louis Winthorpe III:

Fifty bucks? No, no, no. This is a Rouchefoucauld. The thinnest water-resistant watch in the world. Singularly unique, sculptured in design, hand-crafted in Switzerland, and water resistant to three atmospheres. This is *the* sports watch of the '80s. Six thousand, nine hundred and fifty five dollars retail!

Pawnbroker:

You got a receipt?

Louis Winthorpe III:

Look, it tells time simultaneously in Monte Carlo, Beverly Hills, London, Paris, Rome, and Gstaad.

Pawnbroker:

In Philadelphia, it's worth 50 bucks.

Louis Winthorpe III:

Just give me the money.

[jazzbo]

#62 Heavily engaged with the Royal thai Embassy London at this time

#79 I should hear back from the Embassy this afternoon - but this will just be based on my clarification that the FET/FETF was issued by the BOT,

the supporting evidence of investment by a government agency... I have no idea what they are going to say.

#77 I will keep you updated.

... AND?

[pkrv]

#62 Heavily engaged with the Royal thai Embassy London at this time

#79 I should hear back from the Embassy this afternoon - but this will just be based on my clarification that the FET/FETF was issued by the BOT,

the supporting evidence of investment by a government agency... I have no idea what they are going to say.

#77 I will keep you updated.

... AND?

Yes one was a tad remiss

The Royal Thai Embassy London have acknowledged my request.

I may have made a slight mistake in that actually the Thai Government agency, the Thai Department of Land may have actually been the agency to have referred to - I am very uncertain.

The Royal Thai Embassy London have not unexpectedly, gone very quiet.

Mind you I tended to have had that effect all my life. I am used to the expression 'time will tell'

I have nothing new to report but report I shall.

Edited November 1, 2010 by pkrv

[jazzbo]

While I and I guess some others may have some disagreement in your interpretations of MoFA and BoIMM regulations and procedures, at least for myself, I have no desire to see you have a negative outcome to all this just to prove the viability of my comments -- Schadenfreude is not a desirable character trait -- So good luck to you and your partner regardless.

[pkrv]

While I and I guess some others may have some disagreement in your interpretations of MoFA and BoIMM regulations and procedures, at least for myself, I have no desire to see you have a negative outcome to all this just to prove the viability of my comments -- Schadenfreude is not a desirable character trait -- So good luck to you and your partner regardless.

jazzbo - Certainly you have been very thought provoking and positively contributed to this thread - thank you.

Latest update is that the Royal Thai Embassy London has acknowledged my latest communication that the Thai Department of Land have also supported us in issuing all necessary documentation notably the Chanott ti din.

At this stage I must leave the Embassy time to digest.

BTW most of my activity is on the real estate forum, and I got to know many of the guys. No one is reporting back on the 10m THB investment visa AT ALL. I know of just two posters who have succeeded at the 40m THB investment visa approach (a completely different issue) – That’s it.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/411847-rules-in-the-consideration-of-alien-applications-for-temporary-stay-in-the-kingdom-of-thailand-according-to-clause-2-of-the-order-of-the-royal-thai-po/

[pkrv]

OK - I now have a direct contact at the Royal Thai Embassy London.

I now need to react to this.

Any last moment posters with words of experience in such matters? before I dive head first in.

[pkrv]

OK where am I on this matter.

The Thai Royal Embassy London has been quite interesting to deal with.

Their contact details are effectively two totally different things.

The general email contact: [email protected]

and the visa section +44 (0) 2075892944 ext 5505 (select the English option then ignore the announcements and just dial 5505)

Communication between the two appears to be somewhat limited. At my request the embassy is returning my information pack as they are unable to deal with an investment visa request under clause 2 of the order of the Royal Thai Police Headquarters no. 777/2551 dated 25 November 2008 B.E.2551.

The embassy have provided me with a numbers for

The immigration Bangkok Office : +621419889, +662141990010

The Ministry of Foreign Affair : +6629817171

I guess it is now round two.

Does anyone have email contacts for these guys?

Edited December 8, 2010 by pkrv

[jazzbo]

I would say that Thai Immigration at CW is rarely engaged by email ... usually -- after having received a visa in UK -- you just fill out your extension request form and get a queue number with the rest of the hoi polloi.

If your first attempt at the 'investment' extension is found lacking, they will then inform you as to what would will be required for the next attempt...

Edited December 8, 2010 by jazzbo

[pkrv]

I would say that Thai Immigration at CW is rarely engaged by email ... usually -- after having received a visa in UK -- you just fill out your extension request form and get a queue number with the rest of the hoi polloi.

If your first attempt at the 'investment' extension is found lacking, they will then inform you as to what would will be required for the next attempt...

Hi jazzbo, It is not that anything has been found lacking it is simply beyond the abilities of the Royal Thai Embassy London.