Investment Visa – Uk Based

[pkrv]

Hi Guys,

I normally post on the

Jobs, economy, banking, business, investments Subforums

and the

Real Estate, housing, house and land ownership Subforums

We are UK based and attach the latest copies of the Thai UK Visa Application Form (front and back copies)

We have operated in Thailand on a Visa on Arrival (tourist type visa) since around 2005. And we purchased a condominium at The Park Residence Chidlom during this period. It is a substantial investment, at least to us and is one of the cheapest units in the entire condominium. Obviously it needs to be looked after, and indeed is simply a second home. It is not rented out etc. As a Farang unit the funds were brought into Thailand and paid in full.

Essentially what appears to be on offer is a retirement visa. For us I think this would be Non Immigrant Visa – Multi Entry in our case (for the moment).

However in the past I have noted that Investment Visas are also possible. I am new to this game we are currently on a Visa on arrival type visa (a sort of tourist type visa) and are 51 and 45 years old respectively

So we (combined) don't actually count for the type of visa on offer.

As an aside we have had considerable success in opening a Bangkok Bank passbook savings account on a Visa on arrival requiring a letter from the British Embassy. The account is a type 53 account. But we succeeded in upgrading this account for internet access – almost unheard of, and indeed Bangkok Bank has offered to assist us in any application by providing a complete independent audit of our Thai assets.

Our largest Thai asset is of course our Thai home at The Park Chidlom Condominium it is worth about 25m THB.

We are also seeking support from Hemaraj a .SETI company to assist us in such an application, and I don't see them refusing.

Our UK assets are considerable and a mix of cash and our main home (property) – no debts.

I have seen people on this forum say such a visa is no longer possible – if so not good news for the Condominium market.

I am soon about to engage the London Thai Embassy. Any thoughts/experiences you guys could give to add to my initial approach to them?

I will report back – positive or negative impact to us.

Regards PKRV

Edited September 29, 2010 by pkrv

[jazzbo]

For starters:

1. Who or what is 'we'? Married couple both of UK Nationality? Non-married couple of whatever nationality?

2. Why do you not just contact the UK Embassy in Bangkok and see what are their requirements for you to structure a 65K baht per month Stat Dec?

3. Is there some reason you cannot park 800K baht in one of your bank accounts for 2 months (or have someone lend you such)?

4. The multi-entry part is just a Re-entry permit on your extension

[pkrv]

For starters:

1. Who or what is 'we'? Married couple both of UK Nationality? Non-married couple of whatever nationality?

2. Why do you not just contact the UK Embassy in Bangkok and see what are their requirements for you to structure a 65K baht per month Stat Dec?

3. Is there some reason you cannot park 800K baht in one of your bank accounts for 2 months (or have someone lend you such)?

4. The multi-entry part is just a Re-entry permit on your extension

Thats OK.

1) If you buy a Farang quota condominium in joint names you are both Farangs (please reference the property forum link above) - one of us maybe of celtish origin but I am not sure that is relevent.

2) I thought I had explicitly said I am investigating the investment visa option - I did post the standard options/forms from the UK perspective didn't I?

3) As 2

4) Yes I can read

Any updates on investment Visas? Have you seen any links in the past on this?

[Mario2008]

The investment visa was stopt, but has now been re-introduced.

You can read the official rule here: (minimum requirement 10 million baht, the 2 million is only for people who are grandfathered).

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/redirect.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.immigration.go.th%2Fnov2004%2Fdoc%2Ftemporarystay%2Fpolicy777-2551_en.pdf

http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/doc/temporarystay/policy777-2551_th.pdf (in Thai)

[Lite Beer]

Yes. A 10 Million Baht investment is required.

B. In case of an investment of not less than 10 million baht.

(1) The alien has obtained a temporary visa (NON-IM)

(2) Proof of money transfer to Thailand of not less than 10 million baht.

(3) Proof of investment to purchase or rent for a period not less than 3 years of unit in a condominium from an agency or government agency concerned at a price of not less than 10 million baht.

(4) Proof of investment in the form of a fixed deposit of not less than 10 million baht with a bank registered in Thailand with Thai shareholders comprising more than 50% of its shareholders.

(5) Proof of investment to purchase government or state enterprise bonds with a value of not less than 10 million baht or

(6) Proof of combined investments as set out in clauses (3),(4)

Or (5) having a total value of not less than 10 million baht.

[digitalchromakey]

If you are in Thailand on a non immigrant visa then according to the current regulations, you can apply at your local Thai Immigration Dept to Extend your Temporary Permission to Stay on the basis of investment, here are the regulations:

Rules in the Consideration of Alien Applications for Temporary Stay in the Kingdom of Thailand according to clause 2 of the order of the Royal Thai Police Headquarters no. 777/2551 dated on 25 November B.E.2551

Case

2.5 In the case of an investment:

Permission will be granted for a period of not more than 1 year at a time.

Basis for Consideration

A. In case of an investment of not less than 3 million baht

(1) The alien has obtained a temporary visa (NON-IM)

(2) The alien entered Thailand before October 1, 2006 and has been continuously allowed to remain in the Kingdom of not less than 3 million baht.

(3) Proof of money transfer to Thailand of not less than 3 million baht

(4) Proof of investment to purchase a unit in a condominium from an agency or government agency concerned at a price of not less than 3 million baht

(5) Proof of investment in the form of a fixed deposit of not less than 3 million baht with a bank registered in Thailand with Thai shareholders comprising of more than 50% of its shareholders or;

(6) Proof of investment to purchase government or state enterprise bonds with a value of not less than 3 million baht

or

(7) Proof of combined investments as set out in clauses (4), (5), or (6) having a total value of not less than 3 million baht.

B. In case of an investment of not less than 10 million baht.

(1) The alien has obtained a temporary visa (NON-IM)

(2) Proof of money transfer to Thailand of not less than 10 million baht.

(3) Proof of investment to purchase or rent for a period not less than 3 years of unit in a condominium from an agency or government agency concerned at a price of not less than 10 million baht.

(4) Proof of investment in the form of a fixed deposit of not less than 10 million baht with a bank registered in Thailand with Thai shareholders comprising more than 50% of its shareholders.

(5) Proof of investment to purchase government or state enterprise bonds with a value of not less than 10 million baht

or

(6) Proof of combined investments as set out in clauses (3),(4) or (5) having a total value of not less than 10 million baht.

[Lite Beer]

10 Million Baht needed.

[jazzbo]

2) I thought I had explicitly said I am investigating the investment visa option

Actually what you explicitly said was:

Essentially what appears to be on offer is a retirement visa.

So we (combined) don't actually count for the type of visa on offer.... If a married couple then only the 51 year old needs to qualify -- the second can be a dependent spouse.

The investment visa does not appear to be retro-active -- buy yourself a second condominium less than 3 years old for 10 million baht... if you are not married, then you can buy 2 as it does not appear that a visa is obtained for each person on the registration -- else you could have 27.

The UK perspective: The sun never sets on the British Empire ... NOT.

Edited September 29, 2010 by jazzbo

[pkrv]

The investment visa does not appear to be retro-active

The UK perspective: The sun never sets on the British Empire ... NOT.

That was usefull information- digesting - As to the British Empire all things come to an end - time moves on. BTW how did the absorbtion of the Spainsh Empire go, did it fair well?

[pkrv]

10 Million Baht needed.

I have book marked this thread and will get back to you guys - noted the links - we will see,

Edited September 29, 2010 by pkrv

[Mario2008]

In your case a retirement visa will do, on which you can get yearly extensions of stay by showing 800,000 in a bank account in Thailand for at least 3 months before you apply for an extension. (First extension only 2 months). Alternatively youu can show an income of 65,000 baht a month, can be from abroad.It is a very good alternative to the investment visa and extension of stay based on that and might be easier. No need for a lawyer with this.

Suggets you contact the Thai consulate in Hull, much easier to deal with. You can download their forms and apply by mail.

[lopburi3]

The above would be for a retirement extension of stay done in Thailand as Hull can not issue a retirement visa.

For that only single entry non immigrant O visas would be required and the retirement extension done at immigration later and the spouse changing to dependent extension.

[jazzbo]

We are also seeking support from Hemaraj a SETI company to assist us in such an application, and I don't see them refusing.

Such assistance must come under 'Value Added Services' (VAS) Visa and Work Permit ... http://www.hemaraj.com/vas.asp

[pkrv]

The investment visa does not appear to be retro-active -- buy yourself a second condominium less than 3 years old for 10 million baht... if you are not married, then you can buy 2 as it does not appear that a visa is obtained for each person on the registration -- else you could have 27.

We are also seeking support from Hemaraj a SETI company to assist us in such an application, and I don't see them refusing.

Such assistance must come under 'Value Added Services' (VAS) Visa and Work Permit ... http://www.hemaraj.com/vas.asp

Pondering your replies - How can an investment visa be issued if you you do not have letters called Bai Rap Rong (s), and a Foreign Exchange Transaction Form (FET, or FETF) for the final installment (obviously over 20,000 USD)? In otherwords it logically has to be retrospective.

And Hemaraj are the company that built The Park Chidlom. I just simply got to know the guys, as I was in at the commercial sharp end including the onshore/offshore issues.

I am drawing on the considerable knowledge available on Thaivisa before moving forward with requesting an investment visa.

Have you obtained one of these in the past? - If so you could help - but I think not.

Edited September 30, 2010 by pkrv

[jazzbo]

So you made your minimum 10 million baht investment in 2005 or so and now you want to apply for a 777/2551 2.5 'Investment' extension for both persons on the ownership registration for the single 10 million baht investment (unless of course you paid in excess of 20 million baht when purchased) ... And you are right: I haven't done it as I do the 65K per month retirement extension and I am a happy renter ...

3) Proof of investment to purchase or rent ... this is just the English translation but it sure sounds like future tense to me... doesn't say 'having purchased'...

Edited September 30, 2010 by jazzbo

[pkrv]

So you made your minimum 10 million baht investment in 2005 or so and now you want to apply for a 777/2551 2.5 'Investment' extension for both persons on the ownership registration for the single 10 million baht investment (unless of course you paid in excess of 20 million baht when purchased) ... And you are right: I haven't done it as I do the 65K per month retirement extension and I am a happy renter ...

3) Proof of investment to purchase or rent ... this is just the English translation but it sure sounds like future tense to me... doesn't say 'having purchased'...

To be honest I note things such as

B.E.2551

and

(2) Proof of money transfer to Thailand of not less than 10 million baht.

I am marshaling all my resources for what I know was stopped and has now been restarted. And indeed (please excuse the Empires nautical expressions) I am about to 'come about' on this, but at this time I see no reason to even 'open gun ports' nor 'beat to quarters'.

I am not quite sure why you are contributing to the thread.

Edited September 30, 2010 by pkrv

[jazzbo]

You could have asked a simple question: What is the procedure for obtaining an extension of visa based on 777/2551 2.5 for 2 un-related persons when the investment condominium was purchased approx. 5 years ago before Police Order 777/2551 2.5 became effective for more than 10 million (but less than 20 million??) ... Instead you chose to include a bunch of superfluous and extraneous info that has no bearing whatsoever on whether you can qualify for and get that extension or not ... that is why I chose to 'contribute'... and I am sure the Royal Thai Embassy in London will be humbled to be so 'engaged' ..

Edited September 30, 2010 by jazzbo

[pkrv]

What is the procedure for obtaining an extension of visa based on 777/2551 2.5 for 2 un-related persons when the investment condominium was purchased approx. 5 years ago before Police Order 777/2551 2.5

OK what is the procedure?

Edited September 30, 2010 by pkrv

[Mario2008]

The rules don't say anything about the investment being made before or after a certain date. I guess it is just a case of showing you have an investment of 10 million baht and you can get an extension of stay based on that. But only immigration can tell.

As said, a retirement visa is easy to get and gives you equal rights.

[jazzbo]

As not one TV Member has come forward to provide info on a fait accompli basis, you may infer that this type extension is not a common or easy procedure ... the simplest is for you to get an extension based on retirement and for the 45 year-old gent to 'visit friends' on an 'O' from Hull for as long as that option is available... if the Hull 'O' becomes unavailable then you might consider ONE (only) 777/2551 extension. Good Luck.

Edited September 30, 2010 by jazzbo

[pkrv]

As not one TV Member has come forward to provide info on a fait accompli basis, you may infer that this type extension is not a common or easy procedure ... the simplest is for you to get an extension based on retirement and for the 45 year-old gent to 'visit friends' on an 'O' from Hull for as long as that option is available... if the Hull 'O' becomes unavailable then you might consider ONE (only) 777/2551 extension. Good Luck.

Ahh.. for the first time we agree. Yes my scanning of Thai Visa shows no - as you say fait accompli - and I have noted the fall back position and yes I have posted the forms on my first post.

Also I believe that attempts in the past have involved House Land issues - The property forum has seriously grown up. We now explicitly discuss House/Land ownership and Condominium ownership as separate topics. And yes I did have a hand in that. I made many enemies and many friends.

I think that the mods assisting on this topic have supplied the necessary raw information and things are now down to me.

Our lives have had to be squeaky clean due to the industry we work in. We have also been squeaky clean in Thailand.

In Thailand the only way of holding true property ownership and the Chanott ti din in your names is by the Condominium route – we have this. Estimated value 25m THB

We can demonstrate bring in funds of around 14m THB using 4 letters called Bai Rap Rong (s), and a Foreign Exchange Transaction Form – all above board.

We now know to refer to B.E.2551 in Thai and English

We can demonstrate operating a home in Thailand automatically paying electricity bills etc and indeed can request Bangkok Bank to audit us.

We can point to our UK assets which have also been independently valued and are worth substantially more than our Thai assets.

And we can point to a UK income stream that is not insignificant.

If that doesn’t do it this approach is not possible. I will pull out all the stops and see what I can do with - as you quite correctly said - The Royal Thai Embassy London.

I will get back to the board, it is just going to take time. I am just now waiting for one other component but hope to start the process off next week.

Any other thoughts from all Thaivisa members would be most welcome - here goes....

[jazzbo]

As Kuhn M. pointed out, there are issues not explicitly defined in 777/2551 2.5 which then become a matter of discretion at the IMM Office which issues the extension; not at the RT Embassy in UK...

The principal issue as I see it is whether each unrelated-by-marriage person listed on the property registration is entitled to an extension or just one for each 10 million baht of purchase price... i.e. if it is a 10 million baht condominium with 4 bedrooms and 4 unrelated persons on the property registration, is each person so listed entitled to an extension based on the 10 million baht purchase price.

[pkrv]

Let's be honest here - no one has come forward and said I have done this. As such in all lightly hood neither has the Royal Thai Embassy London.

Somehow I don't think such a request can be directed via their front line staff.

IMO It is a question of breaching their outer defences. My thoughts are currently on writting a letter with ALOT of very personal information that covers ALL the necessary requirements. I suspect such an approach will be shunted up the chain quite quickly. Or of course bounce back quite quickly too...

Certainly I noted the 'discretion' component. In a sense I am relying on that. If I succeed this is not going to be a text book approach basically I think it will be more along the lines of making it up as we go along - underwritten by hard cold facts.

Edited October 1, 2010 by pkrv

[Mario2008]

The embassy can give you advise on how to obtain a visa. Only immigration in Thailand can give you information on getting an extensions of stay.

It are two different things and fall under two different ministries.

[pkrv]

The embassy can give you advise on how to obtain a visa. Only immigration in Thailand can give you information on getting an extensions of stay.

It are two different things and fall under two different ministries.

Hi Mario - You don't have any contacts for those ministries by any chance?

[Mario2008]

The embassy can give you advise on how to obtain a visa. Only immigration in Thailand can give you information on getting an extensions of stay.

It are two different things and fall under two different ministries.

Hi Mario - You don't have any contacts for those ministries by any chance?

The Thai Foreign Ministry is no use for you, it is beter to deal directly with the embassy or consulate you will be using, as each has its own interpretation of the rules for issuing a visa. Anyway, the viss will not be a problem. If you apply based on retirement, once in Thailand you can still ask for an extension of stay based on investment.

As far as immigraiton is concerned, they will refer back to the rules given earlier in this thread. Doubt they will reply if you email them.

The immigration webiste is: http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/base.php

Ministry of Foreign Affairs: http://www.mfa.go.th/web/2637.php

[pkrv]

Ahh something has just happened in our favour. The final component I can draw upon is now in place.

We must have impressed David Nardone the CEO of Hemaraj a .SETI company. We have a glowing letter of direct support for our financial position in Thailand. - and that letter is welcome indeed.

With that I think I have marshalled all resources possible.

Letter to the Royal Thai Embassy London to be written up tommorrow and posted Monday with all the supporting documentation we can muster.

Unless anyone has anyother thoughts suggestions - preparing to engage.

[jazzbo]

Yes -- I do not see what bearing such a letter as you describe has on the issuance of a Visa in UK -- any such letter might be addressed to the Immigration Office (Bangkok?) who will decide upon an extension of stay based upon 777/2551 2.5 'In the Case of Investment' ... in fact such a letter might confuse the issue at the Royal Thai Embassy at London based upon what type Visa you actually seek...

... are you seeking a 'B' visa that implies some sort of on going business arrangement with H. (SET) -- you may just as well apply to Hull on an 'O' visiting friends basis ... and again, your biggest concern may be whether in their 'discretion' the IMM Office decides that a 10 million baht investment is good for only ONE extension; not for 2 unrelated persons.

Keep in mind that the Rules as quoted in Police Order 777/2551 are (in the T&G translation) 'Criteria for Consideration' and that even if you meet those criteria Immigration is not compelled to issue an extension; it is all a matter of discretion of the 'competent officer'... pulling rank on some Immigration Police glorified clerk does not always help your cause.

Edited October 1, 2010 by jazzbo

[pkrv]

Yes -- I do not see what bearing such a letter as you describe has on the issuance of a Visa in UK -- any such letter might be addressed to the Immigration Office (Bangkok?) who will decide upon an extension of stay based upon 777/2551 2.5 'In the Case of Investment' ... in fact such a letter might confuse the issue at the Royal Thai Embassy at London based upon what type Visa you actually seek...

... are you seeking a 'B' visa that implies some sort of on going business arrangement with H. (SET) -- you may just as well apply to Hull on an 'O' visiting friends basis ... and again, your biggest concern may be whether in their 'discretion' the IMM Office decides that a 10 million baht investment is good for only ONE extension; not for 2 unrelated persons.

Keep in mind that the Rules as quoted in Police Order 777/2551 are (in the T&G translation) 'Criteria for Consideration' and that even if you meet those criteria Immigration is not compelled to issue an extension; it is all a matter of discretion of the 'competent officer'... pulling rank on some Immigration Police glorified clerk does not always help your cause.

You have a very different mind set to mine - more lawer - but we agree - neither of us knows.

I personally can see we hit all criteria.

Letter dispatched to The Royal Thai Embassy London Today - should have hit the Royal Mail post at around 17:30 for first class delivery tommorrow.

Now in wait mode.

Will get back to the forum.

[jazzbo]

more lawyer? ... Maybe ... I got my first multiple-entry Visa to PRChina in the early '90s when to do so required a Letter of Invitation from a Party Member (Agriculture Ministry in my case)... so my mind set really just comes from personal experience with what works, what doesn't, and what can really piss people off.