Convert From Non-Imm "F" To Non-Imm "Oa"

[Khon Baan Nok]

Basic facts: I am a US citizen, 62 years of age. I am just completing my fifth year in Thailand on a Non-Immigrant "F" (Diplomatic) visa. I will retire on 31 October and will remain in Thailand and will initially go for the retirement visa and subsequently the non-immigrant residential visa. I meet all of the financial and other requirements for the retirement visa.

Specific questions:

1. On the Thai Immigration web site there is a form TM86 - called Application for Change of Visa. Can I use this to convert from my F visa to an OA Retirement Visa?

2. If not, I have been told that I can actually apply for the OA Retirement visa from here in Bangkok, i.e., I do not have to leave the country to begin the visa process. Is this correct?

3. If it is correct, will I be issued an OA visa valid for three months, or for twelve?

Thanks in advance for your informed views and advice.

Regards,

NDS

[lopburi3]

1. No and you do not want such a visa in any case. You want a one year extension of stay for retirement and that requires a non immigrant visa entry (which you have). That is for change from a tourist visa entry.

2. You can not apply for such a visa outside your country of residence and it is not issued in Thailand in any case. That is not what you want.

3. You present a TM.7, photo, financial proof and 1,900 baht to Immigration and walk away with a one year extension of stay.

If your official visa is not accepted (believe it will be if you apply on Monday 1 Nov with letter of 31 Oct retirement) you could go to Vientiane or other Thai Consulate for a single entry non immigrant O visa and extend 60 days after your return on that.

[Lite Beer]

As said you only need a 12 Month extension of stay obtained from immigration. Apply for this every year.

[Khon Baan Nok]

My apologies for being obtuse.

Are you suggesting that because I already have a Non-Immigrant Type F visa, that this can be converted to a Type OA and extended for 12 months just by providing the financial proofs required for the Retirement Type OA and paying the necessary fees? Without leaving Bangkok?

Tks in advance for your clarifications, I'm new to this process.

S.

[lopburi3]

1. You do not need or want an OA visa. That is for people who apply in there home country for a one year permitted to stay on arrival. It is then extended one year at a time by immigration - that is what you want.

2. The requirement for one year extension of stay for retirement is over age 50, in Thailand on a permitted to stay from a non-immigrant visa entry and financial proof. You then use a TM.7 form with photo and pay 1,900 baht to obtain the one year extension of stay each year.

[Lite Beer]

As said, you cannot get a O-A Visa in Thailand.

You need a 12 month extension from Immigration.

From the Police Order that deals with extensions.

2.22 In the case of a retiree: Permission will be granted for a period of not more

than 1 year at a time.

(1) The alien has obtained a temporary visa (NON-IM);

(2) The applicant is 50 years of age or over;

(3) Proof of income of not less than Baht 65,000 per month; or

(4) Account deposit with a bank in Thailand of not less than

800,000 Baht as shown in the bank account for the past 3 months at the filing date of the application. For the first year, the applicant should have that amount in his bank account for not less than 60 days or

(5) Annual income plus bank account deposit totaling not less

than Baht 800,000 as of the filing date of application

[Khon Baan Nok]

I am still not able to put two and two together from your comments, Lopburi3 and LB.

Effective 31 October 2010 I will end my employment and will no longer be entitled to an "F" visa. (There is a 30 day grace period up to 30 November, but that is just for tying up loose ends and leaving.)

You both seem to be saying that all I need is an extension of stay of 12 months, but the only visa I have lapses on 30 November. So I cannot understand how I could get a 12 month extension without some kind of visa of equal validity.

Thanks in advance for your efforts to get this through my thick skull...

S.

[Mario2008]

A visa is a permit to travel to Thailand. You are al ready in Thailand, so you don't need a visa. What you need is an extension of your permission to stay. That used to be because of your work, you will now change your reason to retirement. Post 6 lists the requirements for an extension of stay based on retirement.

Last day of work is the last day you are allowed to stay in Thailand, on that day you have to apply for a permission to stay based on retirement.

[lopburi3]

Extensions of stay are not visas. They extend your current stay and you will never need another visa. To travel and return you obtain and use a re-entry permit. The visa is designed to allow entry and the re-entry permit takes over that function when you have an extension of stay.

The O-A you ask about is not intended for those already in Thailand - it is just the start of retirement with a one year permitted to stay (extension of stay) before you leave home country. You do not need to go that path and skip directly to phase two which is yearly extensions of stay.

[Lite Beer]

If you are worried go and have a chat with Immigration. They are usually helpful and friendly.

[Khon Baan Nok]

If you are worried go and have a chat with Immigration. They are usually helpful and friendly.

Tks to all for the clarifications. With regard to the chat with Immigration, is it better to have a native Thai speaker accompanying me, or is it possible to do it in a combination of Thai and English?

S.

[Lite Beer]

That would all depend on what officer you see.

It is never a bad idea to take a Thai speaker with you. I usually take the Wife and sit there like a lemon while she sorts it all out.

Just look smart and act polite and they will tell you what they require.

[tombkk]

Extensions of stay are not visas. They extend your current stay and you will never need another visa. To travel and return you obtain and use a re-entry permit. The visa is designed to allow entry and the re-entry permit takes over that function when you have an extension of stay.

The O-A you ask about is not intended for those already in Thailand - it is just the start of retirement with a one year permitted to stay (extension of stay) before you leave home country. You do not need to go that path and skip directly to phase two which is yearly extensions of stay.

Excuse me for jumping in, but Type F might be different from other types of non-imm visas. I have seen a non-imm type F vaid "indefiniteley", and the diplomat in question never needed to go to immigration and get an extensions of stay. I was with him when we travelled out of Thailand and then back in again. He's been here for several years.

Therefore I deduce that when he retires, the non-imm Type F will therefore be cancelled, as he is not recognised as a diplomat in this country any more. Kindly check whether this is correct.

[lopburi3]

The point is only the entry requires a visa - not the stay. He entered on a non immigrant visa which is the requirement for a retirement extension of stay. At the worst all he would have to do is go to the nearest Consulate to obtain a new non immigrant visa for entry but do not believe that will be required. He does not need an O-A visa which is what we are trying to explain.

He will not be a diplomat after retirement but that has nothing to do with his extension of stay; which will be for retirement. The extension of stay does not have to match your original entry visa reasons.

[Langsuan Man]

Seems to me that everyone is barking up the wrong tree in this thread

An "F" Visa is only issued to the holders of a Diplomatic or Official Passport and it would seem to me that if the OP is losing his "status" then he should also be losing the Passport that currently has the "F" Visa in it

He will have to revert back to his personal passport and start the process from their, his former "F" Visa means absolutely nothing to Immigration.

His Embassy or whoever issued his current Passport will probably facilitate some type of "temporary" stamp from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in his personal passport in order to get the ball rolling with Thai Immigration

[tombkk]

Seems to me that everyone is barking up the wrong tree in this thread

An "F" Visa is only issued to the holders of a Diplomatic or Official Passport and it would seem to me that if the OP is losing his "status" then he should also be losing the Passport that currently has the "F" Visa in it

He will have to revert back to his personal passport and start the process from their, his former "F" Visa means absolutely nothing to Immigration.

His Embassy or whoever issued his current Passport will probably facilitate some type of "temporary" stamp from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in his personal passport in order to get the ball rolling with Thai Immigration

Good point.

However, when his term of duty ends, his F visa will expire along with the passport. He will need an extension of stay. The question is whether the expired F visa is good as a non-imm (the prerequisite of an extension of stay based on retirement), because it is for the same person, or whether it is not, because it is a different passport. I would think the passport doesn't matter, as passports expire too (even the "tourist" passports, as they call them). I would assume this to be a case of the visa* and the passport expiring at the same time.

*Mario2008: I did say "visa" and not "extension of stay", because it appears that F-visa holders are treated like everywhere in the world, they stay as long as the visa is valid. This may be 2 years or so, or, if the term of duty is not limited in advance, "indefinetely" and be stamped "expired" when the term ends. Only in Thailand is there a big difference between extending a visa and getting an extension of stay. In other countries, you do have to convert the visa type and not get an extension of stay based on retirement when your original (non-imm) visa is for business or the diplomatic corps. I do believe this special Thai practice is the cause of a lot of confusion.

[lopburi3]

He should apply for and get a tourist passport in this case. You can have both. And if transfer can not be made on last day all he will have to do is visit a nearby Consulate to obtain a single entry non immigrant O visa and extend his stay from there. The main post is he does not need to even think about an O-A visa.

[Khon Baan Nok]

I'm the OP and I remain thoroughly confused. The "barking up the wrong tree" comment seems to be on target.

Some additional facts:

1. I presently have both a diplomatic (UN) passport (AKA Laissez Passer, or UNLP) and a national (US) passport. My original "F" visas were in the UNLP, but in anticipation of my retirement I had the F visa moved from the LP to my national passport. When my employment ends on 31 October, I am required to return the UNLP to the UN and I will only have my US passport, which now contains the F visa.

2. The F visa expires on 30 November, but will be cancelled by the UN on or soon after 31 October. It is not apparent to me how I could get an Extension of Stay if I have no valid visa underpinning it.

3. Consequently it is my impression that a) I DO in fact require a visa of some sort (in this case, Non-Immigrant OA), and I WILL need to leave the country to get it. My original question was whether this could be done without leaving the country, and I'm still not sure even about that.

If there's anyone in the forum who has actually gone from F to OA status, it would be great to hear from her/him, as the waters still seem murky to me.

But I appreciate the discussion that is taking place, it is helpful and I appreciate the time and energy you are all putting into this.

Cheers,

S.

[lopburi3]

You only require a visa entry for entry; you use the permitted to stay time and extend it. No visa needs to be valid for the stay. Many people apply after there entry visa has expired. If you go on 31 October (or first workday after) you still have a valid visa entry and it likely can be extended. If not it is just a quick trip to a nearby Consulate to obtain a non immigrant O visa for entry.

You do not need an OA visa. How many times must I say that? A retirement extension of stay can start with even a 30 day visa exempt entry. In that case you convert to a non immigrant entry inside Thailand for 2,000 baht and then extend that stay for the normal 1,900 baht.

If you are in Bangkok visit Chiang Watanna and talk with them if you can not believe us. It is not a big deal as long as you have the required fiancials.

[Lite Beer]

As said above. You can only obtain an O-A Visa in the U.S. and you do not need one.

If Immigration will not issue a 12 month extension you need to exit Thailand and return.

Preferably with a Non Imm Visa but a Tourist Visa or a 30 day entry stamp will do.

Talk to Immigration. They don't bite.

[InterestedObserver]

2. The F visa expires on 30 November, but will be cancelled by the UN on or soon after 31 October. It is not apparent to me how I could get an Extension of Stay if I have no valid visa underpinning it.

The visa in your US passport cannot be canceled by the UN, assuming it was issued by a Thai embassy or consulate. What can be canceled by immigration is any extension of stay based on your working for the UN. On or before your last day of work, go to immigration with a letter from the UN detailing your last date of work, and immigration will cancel your extension of stay based on employment and you can immediately apply for 1 year extension of stay based on retirement if you meet the requirements. Worst case, immigration could make you leave country and return with, preferably, a non-immigrant "O" visa.

Edited October 8, 2010 by InterestedObserver

[Maestro]

Khon Baan Nok, I can see you are mighty confused.

Visa. Some time in the past a Thai consulate stamped a Non-F visa in you UNLP. Make a copy of that visa and keep it as souvenir. Read it and you will see that it said that it was valid for travel to Thailand within a certain period, and use it for travel you did and on arrival in Thailand you received permission to stay for 90 days.

Permission to stay. That permission to stay, not the validity of the visa, was extended periodically for the reason of your employment or whatever you wrote on that line at the bottom of the application form TM.7

Retirement extension. To "convert" the type of your extension of stay, the next time you apply you write "retirement" on the application form on the line "Reason(s) for extension".

Transfer of stamps from UNLP to US passport. Your non-F visa, long since expired, was not transferred. In the analogous situation when somebody gets a new passport when his old one is full or near expiration the immigration office makes three entries in the new passport: a note referring to the original visa in the old passport; a copy of the last arrival stamp; a copy of the last extension of stay. Look at your US passport. Does it have these three entries?

For certain types of a new reason for extension some immigration offices want to see a new entry into Thailand with a new non-immigrant visa. The only way for you to find out what your local immigration office wants is to go and ask them. You do not have to wait until the last day of your employment. I suggest you go any time now and ask them about it.

[Tracechain]

As said, you cannot get a O-A Visa in Thailand.

You need a 12 month extension from Immigration.

From the Police Order that deals with extensions.

2.22 In the case of a retiree: Permission will be granted for a period of not more

than 1 year at a time.

(1) The alien has obtained a temporary visa (NON-IM);

(2) The applicant is 50 years of age or over;

(3) Proof of income of not less than Baht 65,000 per month; or

(4) Account deposit with a bank in Thailand of not less than

800,000 Baht as shown in the bank account for the past 3 months at the filing date of the application. For the first year, the applicant should have that amount in his bank account for not less than 60 days or

(5) Annual income plus bank account deposit totaling not less

than Baht 800,000 as of the filing date of application

Quick question here if I may. Regarding the Baht 65,000 per month, is this just by showing a Thai bank account with this much money or is it showing where the money came from, or both? Also, is there a 90 or 60 day stipulation like with the Bath 800,000?

[Mario2008]

You must show an INCOME of 65,000 baht. if the income is from within Thailand you show tax documents to proof the income, if it is from abroad yu must provide a letter from your embassy confirming your income. Your embassy decides what they will accept as proof.

No need to season the money, not even to receive the money in a bank account in Thailand.

[rbrick49]

all you need is proof of income papers stamped by your embassy in Thailand or a letter from your thai Bank saying you have 800,000 baht which has to be in bank for previous three months,or letter saying you receive more than 65000 baht per month via a pension it is a good idea to have a Thai bank account your house book. if you have a Thai wife take her with you also just tell the immigration officer you want a retirement visa also passport size photo to put on paper work they will give you, and last not least a medical saying you are ok to live in thailand done by a Thai doctor and of course take your passport

if you take a letter stating your pension it must be also stamped by your embassy in Thailand.it is ver easy if you do it right the first time if you forget something they will tell you to come back when you get it right believe me I know.

check list

passport current

papers of income stamped by your embassy

photo copy of your passport also, saves time

passport sized photos get a few

medical from Thai Doctor,must be up to date

all the best Ronnie

ps do a few photo copies of everything in paper work it is good to have

[Tracechain]

all you need is proof of income papers stamped by your embassy in Thailand or a letter from your thai Bank saying you have 800,000 baht which has to be in bank for previous three months,or letter saying you receive more than 65000 baht per month via a pension it is a good idea to have a Thai bank account your house book. if you have a Thai wife take her with you also just tell the immigration officer you want a retirement visa also passport size photo to put on paper work they will give you, and last not least a medical saying you are ok to live in thailand done by a Thai doctor and of course take your passport

if you take a letter stating your pension it must be also stamped by your embassy in Thailand.it is ver easy if you do it right the first time if you forget something they will tell you to come back when you get it right believe me I know.

check list

passport current

papers of income stamped by your embassy

photo copy of your passport also, saves time

passport sized photos get a few

medical from Thai Doctor,must be up to date

all the best Ronnie

ps do a few photo copies of everything in paper work it is good to have

Thank you and Mario for replies.

[Khon Baan Nok]

It is true that I was, and remain, confused. Welcome to the club, as you and most of the other respondents are entitled to the same distinction:

I entered Thailand in 2005 on an F visa issued in New York. UN staff are required to obtain the F visa BEFORE entering Thailand.

EVERY time my F visa has expired, I have had to obtain BOTH a new F visa, with a new number and new valid dates, AND a new Extension of Stay that corresponds to the visa.

I have no idea where any of you are getting the idea that an extension can be granted without a valid visa "underpinning" it. I cannot say that you are wrong, but I have five years of renewals that clearly demonstrate that there is a link between the extension of the F visa and the extension of stay.

It may well be that I do not require an OA visa, I'm not arguing that point. The rules for OA visa do seem to stipulate that it must be obtained from within the country of original nationality, so if that is true then indeed I should not be able to get one from here in Thailand. Whether I NEED one remains a question.

Bottom line, and I remain grateful for the education I'm getting from those more experienced in these matters than I am at present, is that the information I'm seeing posted here does not give me confidence that it is based on actual experience of converting from an F visa to...whatever it is I'm converting to.

The one piece of bankable advice I am extracting from this merry-go-round is the need to get the clarification from Immigration at Chaeng Wattana. That I will do, and will provide a fact-based summary of how it plays out...after it has played out. Hopefully successfully...

Tks again for time and effort,

S.

Khon Baan Nok, I can see you are mighty confused.

Visa. Some time in the past a Thai consulate stamped a Non-F visa in you UNLP. Make a copy of that visa and keep it as souvenir. Read it and you will see that it said that it was valid for travel to Thailand within a certain period, and use it for travel you did and on arrival in Thailand you received permission to stay for 90 days.

Permission to stay. That permission to stay, not the validity of the visa, was extended periodically for the reason of your employment or whatever you wrote on that line at the bottom of the application form TM.7

Retirement extension. To "convert" the type of your extension of stay, the next time you apply you write "retirement" on the application form on the line "Reason(s) for extension".

Transfer of stamps from UNLP to US passport. Your non-F visa, long since expired, was not transferred. In the analogous situation when somebody gets a new passport when his old one is full or near expiration the immigration office makes three entries in the new passport: a note referring to the original visa in the old passport; a copy of the last arrival stamp; a copy of the last extension of stay. Look at your US passport. Does it have these three entries?

For certain types of a new reason for extension some immigration offices want to see a new entry into Thailand with a new non-immigrant visa. The only way for you to find out what your local immigration office wants is to go and ask them. You do not have to wait until the last day of your employment. I suggest you go any time now and ask them about it.

[Lite Beer]

My "O" Visa expired 6 years ago. Every year I extend my Permission to Stay, not my Visa that has long expired.

You do not extend a Visa. You extend a Permission to Stay.

[Khon Baan Nok]

I do not doubt what you say, LB. As mentioned in the first post, I came in on an "F" visa that has been regularly renewed, and identified in my LP (now passport) as an "F" visa, and paired with an extension of my Permission to Stay. I have to conclude that there are different procedures for different types of visa; mine was/is an "F".

I'm curious about whether you ever leave Thailand? If you do, how do you get back in without a visa?

S.

My "O" Visa expired 6 years ago. Every year I extend my Permission to Stay, not my Visa that has long expired.

You do not extend a Visa. You extend a Permission to Stay.

[lopburi3]

You use a re-entry permit to enter Thailand when on an extension of stay.