Education Ministry Plans For English

[Scott]

While looking through the live updates in the news section, I ran into this information. It appears that the Education Ministry plans to make English Thailand’s second language. This will require big changes in teaching policies and methods. The plan includes putting mother-tongue teachers in various state schools. Local English teachers (and I am assuming they mean Thai-English Teachers) at secondary schools must be those who have majored in English. Initially about 500 state schools are targeted for the first stage of the program.

Retired American teachers are tentatively viewed as the key workforce for this English language campaign.

Any thoughts on this plan?

[zaphodbeeblebrox]

Puts them at cross-purposes with the TCT, doesn't it?

The TCT is making it more difficult for foreign teachers to stay in Thailand, by trying to require fairly expensive and rigorous training (Thai Culture Course and either 15 units of university work towards a degree in education or passing the nearly impossible battery of tests for licensing). Because the TCT has a waiver provision for new arrivals of foreign teachers, they have virtually assured that a small percentage of students in Bangkok will be taught English by qualified teachers, while the rest of the students in the country will be taught by backpackers.

On the other hand, the MOE wants to require government schools to hire NES foreign teachers to teach M4-6 English. They will allow Thai teachers to teach English up through M3. There's no way to get enough teachers to satisfy the demand the MOE's plan will create unless the TCT backs off its crusade, and the MOE raises salaries for foreign NES English teachers at government schools.

[Scott]

I may be reading the information incorrectly, but if the targeted work force is retired American teachers, then they would be licensed in the US and thus would be in compliance with the TCT regulations. I would also imagine that the tenure of retired teachers would be less than other groups, so maybe they will simply have the waiver and will not be expected to work beyond that time.

[Phatcharanan]

Puts them at cross-purposes with the TCT, doesn't it?

The TCT is making it more difficult for foreign teachers to stay in Thailand, by trying to require fairly expensive and rigorous training (Thai Culture Course and either 15 units of university work towards a degree in education or passing the nearly impossible battery of tests for licensing).

How on earth is the OP statement at cross-purposes with the TCT?

It doesn't say in the OP that they are looking for 4 week TEFLER types which is what the TCT is trying to do away with. The TCT is simply trying to ensure that there are minimum standards for teachers, Thai and foreign.

Thats not about making life more 'difficult' for foreign teachers to stay here, it's about raising the bar and quite rightly.

Getting education degrees and/or credits is expensive no matter which country you do it in.

The fact that they are making a bit of a hash at it right now is of course relevant. I don't doubt though that eventually they will get it right.

The Thai Language, Culture course etc. is not a bad thing in itself. I'm sure 'noobs' to Thailand would learn quite a bit from it.

The days of a mere 4 week TEFL course being sufficient to teach a nations children are surely drawing to a close. Who knows.............even China may one day accept that.

Edited October 8, 2010 by Phatcharanan

[canuck1941]

Let's hope these teaching positions are not just for "retired Americans". There are many excellent ESL teachers from Canada, the UK, Australia and other places retired in Thailand who might enjoy the opportunity to teach English, but only if it is legal. On an "O" visa, one is not allowed to work. If you do work on the side so to speak, you are in violation of the law because you are not paying social insurance tax , not that you'd ever collect benefits, and face being expelled from the country. I have 15+ years esl teaching experience and could use a few classes for the fun and for the money, too, but I wouldn't work if it meant that I risked being expelled, or if I have to take expensive, lengthy courses as worthwhile as they may be to teach 12 to 20 hours a week.. The Thais have to figure out how to make it easy to get teachers, but keep out the backpackers. Chook dee.

[Scott]

I very much doubt that it would be limited to Americans. My guess is that this is the targeted group because of the relative size and population of the country as well as the number of retirees.

[PlanetX]

With the massive amount of lay-offs in the education sector in US/UK/ EU I am sure there will be more and more licensed teachers willing to move overseas to work.

[Jingthing]

This is great news. They should done it 50 years ago though. They are very late in this and already well behind the competition.

[PlanetX]

I doubt they will be increasing compensation packages for foreign teachers so I would have to assume that they feel they can just simply replace backpackers with unemployed westerners which is probably true

It seems like they shouldnt limit their focus to retired individuals though because there are plenty of young and middle career teachers that will be forced to enter the international teaching market in the next several years

Teaching in Thailand was something that was a choice during better economic times but its gonna become a neccessity for some that cannot find work back home

It will be interesting to see if there is a significant increase in foreign, highly qualified teachers willing to work for living wages (instead of highly qualified wages) instead of facing unemployment

Edited October 8, 2010 by PlanetX

[Rumpole]

"Retired American teachers are tentatively viewed as the key workforce for this English language campaign."

Heyho, here we go again! Some on this board may recall that this same 'strategy' was mooted several years ago, but was either never implemented, or was spectacularly unsuccessful in its execution (I wonder why? ).

Unfortunately, ensuring that English is improved to the level where it becomes a second language requires a little more effort and application than a mere statement of intent. Thailand is starting from a very low base, given that the English skills of its population are some of the worst in the region, as evidenced by their generally abysmal performance in international examinations such as TOEFL, TOEIC and IELTS; independently administered tests where Thai teachers and administrators are unable to fudge the results.

If English is truly to become a second language, this is going to require an enormous commitment in terms of planning, funding, and allocation of resources. Even assuming that a few retired Western teachers can be cajoled into coming to Thailand in the first place - no easy task given the derisory salaries and decidedly less than stellar working conditions which will doubtless be offered (who in their right mind would wish to spend their hard-earned retirement working 45 to 50 hours per week in some sweatshop of a Thai school for $1000 a month?) - this does not even begin to address the issue.

The systems and methods presently employed to teach language to the majority of Thai students are seriously flawed, and will require extensive revision and reconstruction from the ground up, if English is ever to become anything other than a very foreign language in Thailand. Given the MOE's track record, I simply cannot see the necessary changes being implemented to any meaningful extent.

Yet another pie-in-the-sky pronouncement which will be forgotten by next week.

Edited October 8, 2010 by Rumpole

[Phatcharanan]

Unfortunately, ensuring that English is improved to the level where it becomes a second language requires a little more effort and application than a mere statement of intent. Thailand is starting from a very low base, given that the English skills of its population are some of the worst in the region, as evidenced by their generally abysmal performance in international examinations such as TOEFL, TOEIC and IELTS; independently administered tests where Thai teachers and administrators are unable to fudge the results.

Undoubtedly true.........most probably beacuse they have been the recipients of piss poor English teachers I.e. 4 week TEFLERS from the likes of Bob the Builder.

We just had a dozen Thai teachers go through the IELTS and their online results were a minimum 5.5. Most got 6.5 - 7 They learn English just as well as everyone else.........provided they have professional teachers to teach them.

[Scott]

Thailand tends to come up with schemes that they think will operate well on the cheap, using Western technology or education, but without the costs involved. In theory they should work, but in practicality, they often don't.

I think this idea is a good one, however, I wonder how many qualified teachers are going to put up with things like the no fail system; kids not having to pay attention, large classes, few resources etc. I also wonder if the working conditions will be conducive to keeping them employed. Finally, there is the administrative structure which is pretty different from western culture. I won't even get into the age/sex thing with people who have many years of experience being under the supervision of someone who can't be wrong at 1/4 their age.

Could be interesting.

[Phatcharanan]

Could be interesting.

No doubt.

[zaphodbeeblebrox]

Puts them at cross-purposes with the TCT, doesn't it?

The TCT is making it more difficult for foreign teachers to stay in Thailand, by trying to require fairly expensive and rigorous training (Thai Culture Course and either 15 units of university work towards a degree in education or passing the nearly impossible battery of tests for licensing).

How on earth is the OP statement at cross-purposes with the TCT?

It doesn't say in the OP that they are looking for 4 week TEFLER types which is what the TCT is trying to do away with. The TCT is simply trying to ensure that there are minimum standards for teachers, Thai and foreign.

Thats not about making life more 'difficult' for foreign teachers to stay here, it's about raising the bar and quite rightly.

Getting education degrees and/or credits is expensive no matter which country you do it in.

The fact that they are making a bit of a hash at it right now is of course relevant. I don't doubt though that eventually they will get it right.

The Thai Language, Culture course etc. is not a bad thing in itself. I'm sure 'noobs' to Thailand would learn quite a bit from it.

The days of a mere 4 week TEFL course being sufficient to teach a nations children are surely drawing to a close. Who knows.............even China may one day accept that.

Obviously you don't have a clue about what's going on at the TCT. The TCT is completely aware that the teacher licensing requirements are too onerous for the experienced TEFLers in Thailand. They expect most of them to be shoved out by their regs, which grant temporary waivers to newcomers. Hence, if the TCT has their way, Thailand's NES TEFL workforce is destined to be comprised of a rotating band of backpackers, who will teach for a few months, and then move on.

BTW - does the MOE really think any retired American teachers want to teach in poorly resourced, horribly managed, run down government schools for $1,000 USD per month? There are online part-time editing jobs that pay more than that, and the teachers don't even have to leave their homes, let alone relocate thousands of miles away.

[ccarbaugh]

I am a retired American teacher that has been

living and travelling throughout Thailand for 2 years.

I have been looking for a teaching job here but,

because of the undesireable working conditions,

meager salaries and social and beaurocratic

nightmares- I haven't as yet found any positions that

have even come close to making me consider giving

up my ample free time to conduct an effective

educational program. I'll continue looking......

[Xangsamhua]

I very much doubt that it would be limited to Americans. My guess is that this is the targeted group because of the relative size and population of the country as well as the number of retirees.

The Minister's statement, if I've read it correctly, refers to liaison already begun with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs to recruit US teachers.

I don't see any reference to "retired" teachers in his statement. http://www.moe.go.th...10/oct/339.html

I would understand this liaison to be the first step in a process to attract teachers, but would be extended to other BANA nations if required.

As others (e.g. Rumpole) have said, this is just the latest in a series of similar statements over the years, solemnly announced to the media or at professional forums, so it's hard to take seriously. However, the impending full implementation by 2015 of free trade in education across the ASEAN community, referred to in the Minister's statement, has created some sense of urgency. As other ASEAN nations are more freely able to set up educational institutions in Thailand, Thai institutions will have to have something competitive to offer.

I don't really know the full implications of this, but at least some private schools are introducing new international-style programs or courses/classes that accelerate English for students that qualify for them.

[GeorgeO]

Let's hope these teaching positions are not just for "retired Americans". There are many excellent ESL teachers from Canada, the UK, Australia and other places retired in Thailand who might enjoy the opportunity to teach English, but only if it is legal. On an "O" visa, one is not allowed to work. If you do work on the side so to speak, you are in violation of the law because you are not paying social insurance tax , not that you'd ever collect benefits, and face being expelled from the country. I have 15+ years esl teaching experience and could use a few classes for the fun and for the money, too, but I wouldn't work if it meant that I risked being expelled, or if I have to take expensive, lengthy courses as worthwhile as they may be to teach 12 to 20 hours a week.. The Thais have to figure out how to make it easy to get teachers, but keep out the backpackers. Chook dee.

I agree entirely; how does one draw the conclusion that the target group is retired Americans?

In my opinion, the "American" language still has "a ways to go" (sic) if it is to provide appropriate teaching overseas!

[thunder30101]

Just another scam to get a budget to stuff into white envelopes and everyone smiles.

[harrry]

As foreign retired teaches will be over 60 they are not entitled to social security and health here. Can anyone seriously contend that an older retiree who is not demented will work here for less pay than his health care costs here would be?

[ThaiRich]

As foreign retired teaches will be over 60 they are not entitled to social security and health here. Can anyone seriously contend that an older retiree who is not demented will work here for less pay than his health care costs here would be?

Yeah. I can't wait to see some 60 year old school marm walk into a class of 40+ Thai kids in some government school in some little 3rd world village that doesn't even have a 7-11. Many government schools are 2 or 3 floors. Can you imagine some 60 year old going up and down those stairs 4 - 5 times a day in the heat of July. LOL.

[Scott]

Well, I am now over 60 and work in a school. I climb 5 flights of stairs to the top floor to monitor classes, I work my way to the first floor, then over to the next building to do the same. This is done 3-5 times per day. I am not in good shape, but it certainly isn't excessively tiring.

I think you might be surprised at what some retired teacher from an inner-city school can handle. The question is: will they?

The pay issue, I assume is probably not of significance to the targeted group. They will have their pension and social security and most likely will be relatively comfortable. I would be most worried about the cultural issues they would face and maybe the food available.

Much of the success of the program depends on what the gov't offers: decent housing, arrangements for medical care and some type of insurance, visa & work permit (obtained with relative ease).

Another factor is that these type of programs would have a high turnover. A lot of people might be interested in working for a year or so, but that might be it. After all, like myself, they are pretty near the 'best used by date.'

[Deeral]

I would have thought that most schools already have a native English speaking teacher?

what they might try and do is review the teaching methods and assessments that Thai educationalists seem to think are OK.

[Phatcharanan]

Obviously you don't have a clue about what's going on at the TCT. The TCT is completely aware that the teacher licensing requirements are too onerous for the experienced TEFLers in Thailand. They expect most of them to be shoved out by their regs, which grant temporary waivers to newcomers.

Let me guess...........you are of course fully aware of what the TCT is attempting to do because a) You're an 'experienced TEFLER' or You have a 'friend' in the TCT.

Whatever.

The only people that appear to be 'ranting' over these concerns would be those who are going to face the most difficulties in complying.

[Scott]

One thing to remember is that the Teacher's Council has basically set the same regulation for Thai teachers as it has for foreign teachers, so I don't think there is a conspiracy against foreigners. One can argue about the regulations and it's long term impact on education, but I believe it is a reality. The TCT isn't a political body, per se, and so will likely be around giving direction for the foreseeable future.

The Ministry of Education seems to be acknowledging the TCT's direction by targeting retired teachers.

I don't think that the people initiating the project have any idea of the human resource nightmare they are likely to encounter. These aren't a bunch of dumb kids out for an adventure. These will be seasoned teachers who, by and large, know what they are doing and how to do it. They will be set in their ways and adjusting to the culture and isolation may be difficult for many. This may be especially true with Americans, who will have little knowledge or experience with Thailand.

The resources needed to make this program work well will include: 1. A fair amount of training on what is expected and how it's done in Thailand. This will also include being honest about how things work. 2. Probably on-going information/training sessions to assist people in adjusting. 3. A decent standard of care and respect for them as professionals.

To do it correctly, they will probably not save much more money than they would by hiring qualified teachers in the first place.

[Xangsamhua]

One thing to remember is that the Teacher's Council has basically set the same regulation for Thai teachers as it has for foreign teachers, so I don't think there is a conspiracy against foreigners. One can argue about the regulations and it's long term impact on education, but I believe it is a reality. The TCT isn't a political body, per se, and so will likely be around giving direction for the foreseeable future.

The Ministry of Education seems to be acknowledging the TCT's direction by targeting retired teachers.

I don't think that the people initiating the project have any idea of the human resource nightmare they are likely to encounter. These aren't a bunch of dumb kids out for an adventure. These will be seasoned teachers who, by and large, know what they are doing and how to do it. They will be set in their ways and adjusting to the culture and isolation may be difficult for many. This may be especially true with Americans, who will have little knowledge or experience with Thailand.

The resources needed to make this program work well will include: 1. A fair amount of training on what is expected and how it's done in Thailand. This will also include being honest about how things work. 2. Probably on-going information/training sessions to assist people in adjusting. 3. A decent standard of care and respect for them as professionals.

To do it correctly, they will probably not save much more money than they would by hiring qualified teachers in the first place.

As I said in my earlier posting, the Minister's statement doesn't include any reference to retired teachers, only to US teachers. However, I would expect they'll have retired teachers in mind. US teachers are where they're starting, and liaison with Foreign Affairs is under way to get this rolling, but I assume they'll also be interested in Canadian retirees and then retirees from elsewhere.

Going for retirees does present some issues, as Scott has so clearly indicated, and there may be other and better people available. For example, in Queensland at present, graduates from university teacher training programs are struggling to find jobs in that state. There's a glut of teachers, and this happens cyclically around the world. It's easy enough for MoE to find out where there are teacher surpluses and to target young, well trained and enthusiastic graduates who don't have the baggage of the retired teacher and who would probably enjoy the lifestyle here more than the older people..

Scott also advises a proper orientation and induction for the new teachers, especially if they are retirees. This needs to happen pre-departure and post-arrival and, I suggest, requires the participation of experienced foreign teachers currently or recently working in Thailand.

I wonder if the Minister's advisors, in their wisdom, have sought advice at all from experienced foreign teachers about their aims and implementation strategy.

[Scott]

I believe we are citing two different sources. My is the simple tweet:

Retired American teachers are tentatively viewed as a key workforce for this English language campaign. /via @tulsathit

Yours is the more comprehensive article, I believe.

The group they should be targeting, IMO, are just plain teachers--whether new graduates, existing teachers, or retired teachers. My guess is this is a money-saving effort to use 'retired' people whom they don't have to pay much. If they recruit foreigners with education degrees, they will have to pay them reasonably well and they will have treat them reasonably well. They may be malleable, but they are still educated.

It's the baggage these retirees carry that will be the problem, it's the cultural baggage the country carries that will prevent actual motivation and learning....but between either the retirees baggage or the county's, it's likely to have problems.

[unblocktheplanet]

Our 12-year old is in M1 (Grade 7) at a MoE govt school. They offered a mini-English programme in which math, science, computer science and English are taught by native speakers; all other subjects are in Thai. The teachers are young and pretty good.

However, because foreigners require higher salaries, the MEP comes at a cost—B34K/year, to be precise. If Thai parents are to be forced to pay for new English lessons, most Thai families simply can’t afford to. Foreigners do require higher salaries. Will govt really bear the cost of this? I would think it could easily double Thailand’s entire education budget!

Our daughter has attended Thai schools because we want her to know how to be Thai first and be able to talk circles in her own language, and to read and write well. The bilingual system in Canada has been an abysmal failure. Thai language is already complicated enough; why would we want to add the another language?

Just because English is the new lingua franca for the world is no reason we need to jam it down our kids' throats. Yes, the standard of English here is atrocious, as are student grades, but I fail to see such a programme would alleviate this. Of course, all students should learn a foreign language, according to their interests, if only to expand their worldview—it doesn't have to be English.

Thunder got right to the point, such new programmes are usually all about those red envelopes...

[Thaddeus]

I would have thought that most schools already have a native English speaking teacher?

what they might try and do is review the teaching methods and assessments that Thai educationalists seem to think are OK.

I've met most of the teachers assigned to teach English in our local schools, we communicate far better in Thai, I would expect most of rural Isaan to be the same.

I agree about the teaching methods though.

How many state schools are there in Thailand? in other words, the first 500 is what percentage?

[Xangsamhua]

I would have thought that most schools already have a native English speaking teacher?

what they might try and do is review the teaching methods and assessments that Thai educationalists seem to think are OK.

How many state schools are there in Thailand? in other words, the first 500 is what percentage?

The latest figures on the MoE website are for 2005, when there were 34,457 government schools. So 500 is 1.5% of the total, i.e. elite schools.

It sounds like what we had when I first taught in Korat in the early 70s. Our school was the top girls' school in the province. We had two foreign teachers. The boys' school had one. The higher echelon of schools in Bangkok and the premier ones in the major provinces had foreign teachers and, if my school was typical, very capable Thai teachers of English. The language of our English staffroom was English and everyone managed very well with it. However, the overwhelming majority of schools would have had very limited English opportunities.

If I remember correctly, kids at that time were expected to start learning English in Mathayom Sueksa 1 (MS1). Or it may have been P7. MS5 was the final year of school.

[BruceMangosteen]

Our 12-year old is in M1 (Grade 7) at a MoE govt school. They offered a mini-English programme in which math, science, computer science and English are taught by native speakers; all other subjects are in Thai. The teachers are young and pretty good.

The MEP programs are often promoted as having "native speakers" teaching, but my experience has been that some/many schools hire Filipinos and those of other nationalties normally thought as being not "native" English speaking.

That posted, I was informed by a high Government offical that Filipino's were in fact native speakers, he can understand them "clearly" and "many schools are hiring Filipinos" to teach English.

Point being only that if Filipino's are qualified and thought of as being native speakers, there will be no problem hiring them to fill the need at every school in Thailand at low wages. The heck with backpackers and retired American teachers. I love Filipino's and have nothing againist a dedicated teacher from any country. I can see the agency angle to all this as well.

Edited October 20, 2010 by BruceMangosteen