If so, please give examples.

No, I can’t give examples as I really would like to feel that there is enough laws and power to tackle the problem. I would like to see the Police and the Intelligence Agencies actually doing their work in a correct manor.

Any chance of keeping this topic racist free?

I rather think this new "shoot-to-kill-if-suspect-might-be-a-terrorist" is something like the old test for witches- throw them in the river; if they drown they were innocent, if they float they're a witch- burn 'em.

It's really no better than Thaksin's drug war "hunt them and shoot them" policy, except that the British are perhaps less used to the idea of police shooting people in the streets? All you have to do is suspect someone and that automatically excuses anything that happens to them. All you have to say is "well, if he had been a terrorist and we didn't shoot him, we would have been criticized the other way!" I imagine though that the British government is slightly more accountable than the Thai one and if this shooting of innocents gets much more out of hand political heads will roll.

After all, the whole point of stopping the suicide bombers is to PROTECT the innocents, right? Right?

"Steven"

I rather think this new "shoot-to-kill-if-suspect-might-be-a-terrorist" is something like the old test for witches- throw them in the river; if they drown they were innocent, if they float they're a witch- burn 'em.

It's really no better than Thaksin's drug war "hunt them and shoot them" policy, except that the British are perhaps less used to the idea of police shooting people in the streets?  All you have to do is suspect someone and that automatically excuses anything that happens to them.  All you have to say is "well, if he had been a terrorist and we didn't shoot him, we would have been criticized the other way!"  I imagine though that the British government is slightly more accountable than the Thai one and if this shooting of innocents gets much more out of hand political heads will roll.

After all, the whole point of stopping the suicide bombers is to PROTECT the innocents, right?  Right?

"Steven"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Right!

you need to get to the root cause of the problem - just making new laws is a band-aid solution touted by politicians who really don't give a sh1t about anything but getting re-elected for the next term.

understanding why it is people want to blow up trainloads of people or abortion clinics , and remove that illogicality from their thinking.

you need to get to the root cause of the problem - just making new laws is a band-aid solution touted by politicians who really don't give a sh1t about anything but getting re-elected for the next term.

understanding why it is people want to blow up trainloads of people or abortion clinics , and remove that illogicality from their thinking.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The police do a nice line in lobotomy.

I would love to hear how you would would "remove that illogicality from their thinking".

The police do a nice line in lobotomy.

an I wonder what percentage of them think that 'god' is on their side ... yes thomas the illogicality I was refering to was that crutch called religion.

I rather think this new "shoot-to-kill-if-suspect-might-be-a-terrorist" is something like the old test for witches- throw them in the river; if they drown they were innocent, if they float they're a witch- burn 'em.

It's really no better than Thaksin's drug war "hunt them and shoot them" policy, except that the British are perhaps less used to the idea of police shooting people in the streets?  All you have to do is suspect someone and that automatically excuses anything that happens to them.  All you have to say is "well, if he had been a terrorist and we didn't shoot him, we would have been criticized the other way!"  I imagine though that the British government is slightly more accountable than the Thai one and if this shooting of innocents gets much more out of hand political heads will roll.

After all, the whole point of stopping the suicide bombers is to PROTECT the innocents, right?  Right?

"Steven"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The “accidental” death of any innocent is the ultimate tragedy for the victim and very close to the same for his family and friends.

I do not think that anyone who reads about this incident will disagree that it is very, very unfortunate.

However, that must not disguise the fact that anyone who runs from police instruction to stop, in the heightened security of post (and potentially pre-terrorist) actions that have (or could) result in many lost lives, is a complete and utter FOOL.

It is sad that this idiot lost his life.

But maybe his sacrifice just might ensure no other potentially stupid, mindless, hero makes the same fatal mistake.

If so, please give examples.

Best enforce the laws you have although your version of the Patriot Act, as I understand it, doesn't have the teeth needed?

Not off topic but here's a bit of interesting news.

Again the Guardian reminds us that Britain’s Muslim immigrants are the real victims of the Islamic terror attacks in London.

Never mind those dozens of murdered train and bus passengers.

Two-thirds of Muslims consider leaving UK.

"Hundreds of thousands of Muslims have thought about leaving Britain after the London bombings, according to a new Guardian/ICM poll. The figure illustrates how widespread fears are of an anti-Muslim backlash following the July 7 bombings which were carried out by British born suicide bombers.

The poll also shows that tens of thousands of Muslims have suffered from increased Islamophobia, with one in five saying they or a family member have faced abuse or hostility since the attacks.

Police have recorded more than 1,200 suspected Islamophobic incidents across the country ranging from verbal abuse to one murder in the past three weeks. The poll suggests the headline figure is a large underestimate.

The poll came as British Islamic leaders and police met to try to boost recruitment of Muslim officers, improve efforts to protect Muslims from a backlash, and improve the flow of information from Muslims to the police about suspected terrorist activity.

Nearly two-thirds of Muslims told pollsters that they had thought about their future in Britain after the attacks, with 63% saying they had considered whether they wanted to remain in the UK. Older Muslims were more uneasy about their future, with 67% of those 35 or over having contemplated their future home country compared to 61% among those 34 or under."

Link

The police do a nice line in lobotomy.

an I wonder what percentage of them think that 'god' is on their side ... yes thomas the illogicality I was refering to was that crutch called religion.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't think there are particularly many police who think that God is on their side - I would imagine it is the same percentage as in the rest of society - maybe marginally higher, give they generally have a highly developed sense of what is right or wrong.

you need to get to the root cause of the problem - just making new laws is a band-aid solution touted by politicians who really don't give a sh1t about anything but getting re-elected for the next term.

understanding why it is people want to blow up trainloads of people or abortion clinics , and remove that illogicality from their thinking.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Stu - root problem is religion and nutters who follow blindly. (including christianity)

It is sad that this idiot lost his life.

until after the enquiry we will not have a good idea exacty what transpired - he might have gotten shot even if he had stopped - one wrong eyebrow twitch...

and I do not have your confidence in police officers - not all are smart bright eyed defenders of the law.

However, that must not disguise the fact that anyone who runs from police instruction to stop, in the heightened security of post (and potentially pre-terrorist) actions that have (or could) result in many lost lives, is a complete and utter FOOL.

The way I understand it the police in this case could not be recognized as such by the victim since they were all in plain clothes. For all he cared they could have been a couple of thugs that wanted to beat him up.

It is a sad event that transpired with the brazilian Jean Charles.

Yet I agree with TM's earlier post:

quote:

However, that must not disguise the fact that anyone who runs from police instruction to stop, in the heightened security of post (and potentially pre-terrorist) actions that have (or could) result in many lost lives, is a complete and utter FOOL.end quote

I can't imagine, and I would love to know WHY the guy ran.

By all accounts he was a legal immigrant running late for work.

&lt;deleted&gt; happened?

As for new laws... Man, the politicians can keep making new laws until the cows come home.

Most of the people who break or do not abide by the old laws aren't exactly going to abide to any new ones.

They don't even understand their own religious laws properly.

So what would be the point?

Kayo

The guy was an illegal immigrant with an expired visa, which did not give him permission to work. This is presumably why he ran.

The guy was an illegal immigrant with an expired visa, which did not give him permission to work. This is presumably why he ran.

Not only presumably, it is highly likely. Al over the world, in many cases, when police approach, you try to get away even if you are innocent. In the light of that the man who was shot had a Brazilian background and the examples I have heard from my Brazilian friends about what their police force have been up to throughout the years (shooting homeless kids, etc.), I am not surprised he ran.

The guy was an illegal immigrant with an expired visa, which did not give him permission to work. This is presumably why he ran.

Not only presumably, it is highly likely. Al over the world, in many cases, when police approach, you try to get away even if you are innocent. In the light of that the man who was shot had a Brazilian background and the examples I have heard from my Brazilian friends about what their police force have been up to throughout the years (shooting homeless kids, etc.), I am not surprised he ran.

It's not that bad down there now although the homeless situation will always be with us...

I presume you are making comparison with LA or Washington DC?