U.S. Proposes Expanding Disclosure Of Intl Bank Xfers

[jfchandler]

Here's a link to the Associated Press article on the U.S. government's latest proposal to expand banks' required reporting of electronic international funds transfers into or out of the U.S. The current threshold for automatic reporting by the bank is $10,000. The U.S. govt. wants to expand that to ANY amount of transfer starting in 2012.

[longball53098]

Do you have something to hide so you send amounts under the radar now?

[jfchandler]

I don't do international funds transfers of the type referred to in the article, essential international wire transfers...

But it does make one wonder... are terrorists and international money launderers and drug cartels really taking advantage at present of being able to do under $10,000 wire transfers in order to avoid the banks' automatic reporting obligation to the feds???

Something tells me, those types aren't moving their funds in dribs and drabs.....

[flying]

Do you have something to hide so you send amounts under the radar now?

I should think the first question would not be does he have anything to hide but instead what business is it of theirs?

Folks want to give away all their rights these days too easily. Later when all is gone then folks will wonder why.

[Heng]

Maybe they just "figured out" that $3,333 x 3 is just as effective as $10,001 x 1 and the 'bad guys' don't mind paying less than $100 and change in fees to stay under the radar.

[Naam]

Maybe they just "figured out" that $3,333 x 3 is just as effective as $10,001 x 1 and the 'bad guys' don't mind paying less than $100 and change in fees to stay under the radar.

i don't think there are many bad guys left who move by wire transfer money into and out of the Greatest Nation on Earth™............. except a few brain-amputated ones

[flying]

Maybe they just "figured out" that $3,333 x 3 is just as effective as $10,001 x 1 and the 'bad guys' don't mind paying less than $100 and change in fees to stay under the radar.

i don't think there are many bad guys left who move by wire transfer money into and out of the Greatest Nation on Earth™............. except a few brain-amputated ones

True.....Look for example how the US Govt takes pallets of cash into places like Iraq to use as they see fit in paying off......things.

Perhaps the taxpayers should demand a bit of a paper trail there eh?

Same goes for all the foreign money that now comes in for campaign contributions to congress etc.

http://biggovernment.com/pgeller/2010/10/11/foreign-contributions-investigating-obama/

But no instead it is the little people who are guilty until proven innocent here.

Yet these transfers originate from banks here that they the govt. already have full control of.

They just dont like the idea of folks leaving with $$$$

Otherwise a swift from your account here to your account anywhere would be exempt from suspicion.

Edited October 12, 2010 by flying

[givenall]

Do you have something to hide so you send amounts under the radar now?

The fact is that the government wants to control everyone’s life. Has nothing to do with hiding.

As technology advances make it easier to control everything, and the governments can’t resist to expand their control.

[jfchandler]

For folks who actually read the article, they'll see that the government already has the ability (such as if they were conducting an investigation) to ASK the banks for the info on much lower transfer amounts...and the banks are required to keep and provide those records. But the banks are not automatically required to report those lesser amounts. Under the proposed change, the banks would be required to report all amounts....

As the article notes, the proposed rule change would not impact ATM withdrawals or credit card transactions.... So you can withdraw from an ATM as much cash as your account allows in a foreign country. But try to send an international wire, and the feds will be looking over your shoulder. Thanks Uncle Sam.

[longball53098]

Do you all really think that Uncle needs you to report the movement of money into or out of the country? They already know whats coming and going.

I made my comment earlier mostly tongue in cheek and the paranoia group quickly chimed in.

If you have done or are doing any money moving in the US I feel pretty sure the people that want to know already know about it whether you report it or not, law or no law. Big brother knows all and if you think by keeping some kind of low profile will keep you hidden you're dreaming.

They may pass some new law forcing banks to report all international transfers or whatever but the people that watch this already know who and how much is moving and to where. They just want more actual legal traps for the honest guys to follow.

[jfchandler]

Unfortunately, it's attitudes like yours that encourage government abuse of the privacy of law-abiding citizens... Big Brother shouldn't be entitled to "know all".

Big brother knows all

[meom]

I don't do international funds transfers of the type referred to in the article, essential international wire transfers...

But it does make one wonder... are terrorists and international money launderers and drug cartels really taking advantage at present of being able to do under $10,000 wire transfers in order to avoid the banks' automatic reporting obligation to the feds???

Something tells me, those types aren't moving their funds in dribs and drabs.....

They're probably a bit more sophisticated nowadays.

"In the late 1980s and early '90s, Harvard-educated economist Franklin Jurado ran an operation to launder money for Colombian drug lord Jose Santacruz-Londono. His was a very complex scheme. In its simplest form, the operation went something like this:

Placement: Jurado deposited cash from U.S. drug sales in Panama bank accounts.

Layering: He then transferred the money from Panama to more than 100 bank accounts in 68 banks in nine countries in Europe, always in transactions under $10,000 to avoid suspicion. The bank accounts were in made-up names and names of Santacruz-Londono's mistresses and family members. Jurado then set up shell companies in Europe in order to document the money as legitimate income.

Integration: The plan was to send the money to Colombia, where Santacruz-Londono would use it to fund his numerous legitimate business there. But Jurado got caught.

In total, Jurado funneled $36 million in drug money through legitimate financial institutions. Jurado's scheme came to light when a Monaco bank collapsed, and a subsequent audit revealed numerous accounts that could be traced back to Jurado. At the same time, Jurado's neighbor in Luxembourg filed a noise complaint because Jurado had a money-counting machine running all night. Local authorities investigated, and a Luxembourg court ultimately found him guilty of money laundering. When he'd finished serving his time in Luxembourg, a U.S. court found him guilty, too, and sentenced him to seven-and-a-half years in prison.

http://money.howstuffworks.com/money-laundering4.htm

[Heng]

Maybe they just "figured out" that $3,333 x 3 is just as effective as $10,001 x 1 and the 'bad guys' don't mind paying less than $100 and change in fees to stay under the radar.

i don't think there are many bad guys left who move by wire transfer money into and out of the Greatest Nation on Earth™............. except a few brain-amputated ones

Which is usually why the bad guys usually win in real life.

[cloudhopper]

I hope they enact this - it's just more reams of data for them to dig through, like they really do anyway. Just like the annual bank reports most US expats have to do; they get tens of thousands of those in every year but that many bank wires go through every day. More chaff on their radar screen IMO.

Edited October 12, 2010 by cloudhopper

[longball53098]

Unfortunately, it's attitudes like yours that encourage government abuse of the privacy of law-abiding citizens... Big Brother shouldn't be entitled to "know all".

Big brother knows all

My attitude is just fine thank you. No need for you to comment about it.

[craigt3365]

I don't do international funds transfers of the type referred to in the article, essential international wire transfers...

But it does make one wonder... are terrorists and international money launderers and drug cartels really taking advantage at present of being able to do under $10,000 wire transfers in order to avoid the banks' automatic reporting obligation to the feds???

Something tells me, those types aren't moving their funds in dribs and drabs.....

They're probably a bit more sophisticated nowadays.

"In the late 1980s and early '90s, Harvard-educated economist Franklin Jurado ran an operation to launder money for Colombian drug lord Jose Santacruz-Londono. His was a very complex scheme. In its simplest form, the operation went something like this:

Placement: Jurado deposited cash from U.S. drug sales in Panama bank accounts.

Layering: He then transferred the money from Panama to more than 100 bank accounts in 68 banks in nine countries in Europe, always in transactions under $10,000 to avoid suspicion. The bank accounts were in made-up names and names of Santacruz-Londono's mistresses and family members. Jurado then set up shell companies in Europe in order to document the money as legitimate income.

Integration: The plan was to send the money to Colombia, where Santacruz-Londono would use it to fund his numerous legitimate business there. But Jurado got caught.

In total, Jurado funneled $36 million in drug money through legitimate financial institutions. Jurado's scheme came to light when a Monaco bank collapsed, and a subsequent audit revealed numerous accounts that could be traced back to Jurado. At the same time, Jurado's neighbor in Luxembourg filed a noise complaint because Jurado had a money-counting machine running all night. Local authorities investigated, and a Luxembourg court ultimately found him guilty of money laundering. When he'd finished serving his time in Luxembourg, a U.S. court found him guilty, too, and sentenced him to seven-and-a-half years in prison.

http://money.howstuffworks.com/money-laundering4.htm

I think you hit the nail on the head. For folks like us, they could care less. The 10k limit is for CASH transactions. There is already a 3K international transfer requirement. Records have to be maintained, but not reported.

As long as you are paying your taxes and not cheating on something, how does it impact your life? And could this potentially help catch some terrorists plotting something? Like the Pakistani's recently caught down south who are transferring lots of money around...including to a person who is listed as a foreign terrorist?

Again, for us, it just doesn't matter....if they wanted to know about every ATM transaction you have made in the past 10 years, they could easily get it...believe me, I use to be a bank auditor!

[flying]

I think you hit the nail on the head. For folks like us, they could care less. The 10k limit is for CASH transactions. There is already a 3K international transfer requirement. Records have to be maintained, but not reported.

As long as you are paying your taxes and not cheating on something, how does it impact your life? And could this potentially help catch some terrorists plotting something? Like the Pakistani's recently caught down south who are transferring lots of money around...including to a person who is listed as a foreign terrorist?

Again, for us, it just doesn't matter....if they wanted to know about every ATM transaction you have made in the past 10 years, they could easily get it...believe me, I use to be a bank auditor!

Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

Benjamin Franklin

[craigt3365]

I think you hit the nail on the head. For folks like us, they could care less. The 10k limit is for CASH transactions. There is already a 3K international transfer requirement. Records have to be maintained, but not reported.

As long as you are paying your taxes and not cheating on something, how does it impact your life? And could this potentially help catch some terrorists plotting something? Like the Pakistani's recently caught down south who are transferring lots of money around...including to a person who is listed as a foreign terrorist?

Again, for us, it just doesn't matter....if they wanted to know about every ATM transaction you have made in the past 10 years, they could easily get it...believe me, I use to be a bank auditor!

Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

Benjamin Franklin

That may have been appropriate in his era, but we live in different times....and IMHO, I'm giving up nothing. If these rules help to prevent a new Times Square bomber, etc., them I'm all for it. I lived in New York City during September 11th. I worked in the World Trade Center. I would never wish that on anybody...except the bombers!

[flying]

That may have been appropriate in his era, but we live in different times....and IMHO, I'm giving up nothing. If these rules help to prevent a new Times Square bomber, etc.,

Up 2 you

One good thing about being a US citizen eh?

[craigt3365]

That may have been appropriate in his era, but we live in different times....and IMHO, I'm giving up nothing. If these rules help to prevent a new Times Square bomber, etc.,

Up 2 you

One good thing about being a US citizen eh?

You are absolutely right on that. Debate is a great tool...as long as it is not abused!!!!

But let's avoid talk of Obama, Palin, Tea Party...isn't the US an interesting place right now????? It will be interesting to see how this all plays out...

[flying]

You are absolutely right on that. Debate is a great tool...as long as it is not abused!!!!

But let's avoid talk of Obama, Palin, Tea Party...isn't the US an interesting place right now????? It will be interesting to see how this all plays out...

Boy I hear you on that!

That old Chinese curse/proverb of "May You Live In Interesting Times"

seems tailored made for these times.

[Heng]

It's tailor made for all eras.

[Jingthing]

More reason to be sure to file your FBAR every year (if required)!

Edited October 13, 2010 by Jingthing

[JimGant]

That may have been appropriate in his era, but we live in different times....and IMHO, I'm giving up nothing. If these rules help to prevent a new Times Square bomber, etc., them I'm all for it.

Amen. I often wondered just what perversions the ACLU worried would be discovered by the Fed's dragnet against terrorists... Then, again, folks on the fringe -- both left and right -- probably do have reason for their paranoia.

No, I'm afraid we still have too many safeguards against privacy infringement to prevent the next terrorist chapter in the States....

[flying]

Amen. I often wondered just what perversions the ACLU worried would be discovered by the Fed's dragnet against terrorists... Then, again, folks on the fringe -- both left and right -- probably do have reason for their paranoia.

No, I'm afraid we still have too many safeguards against privacy infringement to prevent the next terrorist chapter in the States....

At times though.....

I do wonder with all the airport searches & the heavier questioning when leaving the US about cash exceeding 10k as it is quite vigorous now. Yet when we come back with large suitcases they do not even look in them at all these days. After landing in the US I mean.

Same with the census this year & GPS'ing our front door location??? Purpose being?

There are many more things they do to check *us* like the thread suggests about wiring money... from our own account that they know dam_n well how much is in it as they tax us on each & every penny including any trivial interest the broke banks pay us.

Yet some whack couple can get by the CIA & SS to a white house dinner uninvited..????

Yes security

I could go on & on but fail to see how any of it has made the US one hair safer.

If they want to do that perhaps they should retract some of their actions that made it unsafe to begin with not to mention the cost that is literally killing us better than any terror cell could.

Edited October 13, 2010 by flying

[jcon]

but but but.... b..b............but wait this slope isn't sliper - REEEE!

And that's not a wedge coming in the door, nah....

Yes, please let's hire more government workers to push more papers in the name of National Security. Then we need some regulators to look after those guys. And also some lawyers to look after the regulators. And maybe some more regulators to look after those regulators. Throw in some advocacy groups, media, etc. and we have just built a mini-economy.... based on nothing. Oh whoops, taxpayers have to foot the bill. Sounds great. Where do I sign up? Oh, I've been co-opted. Thanks.

Some of you guys may be fine with giving up your civil liberties in the name of the boogeyman du jour. That's great, but who's going to pay for all of it? Oh yeah, that's right.

So anyway, yeah go ahead and take away my liberties and then charge me for it. Oh, and make sure that's it's a disproportionate charge also, because obviously it's my obligation to pay for others who can't pay to get their liberties taken from them. Meanwhile we can create some jobs and prod..... oh, sorry, that's not producing JACK SHIT.

We're safe though. Whew - thank god (err.... the government) for that. Why do we need saving again? Who? Wha? Oh forget it, here is my bank account number. Oh, you already have it? Then why are you asking me? Did you just charge me to ask me something you already knew? Ah, let me just bend over, or do you prefer missionary? I promise I'll pay for the condoms and any unintended consequences of your actions. I already paid? Oh, ok. Thanks.

[flying]

but but but.... b..b............but wait this slope isn't sliper - REEEE!

---snipped good post to save space------------------------

Naturally I really liked that post

Thanks

[jcon]

Figured you'd like it flying

The next thing that popped into my head after I wrote that reply was this scene.....

"Please sir, may I have some more?"

**Loud chorus rumbles in.....**

"Oliver, Oliver, never before has a boy wanted more,

Oliver, Oliver, won't ask again when he knows what's in store!!!!!"

And with that - somewhere, out there.....my lit prof is smiling (and I suspect somewhere else, small kittens die whenever people accept, nay justify, government bloat).

end sigh.

[flying]

"Oliver, Oliver, never before has a boy wanted more,

Oliver, Oliver, won't ask again when he knows what's in store!!!!!"

And with that - somewhere, out there.....my lit prof is smiling (and I suspect somewhere else, small kittens die whenever people accept, nay justify, government bloat).

where is the in nodding agreement icon? ah well

Edited October 13, 2010 by flying