Honda Cbr 250R 2011

[appropriate]

Black/silver 250 sitting in Saphan Kwai dealership.

Think they were asking 110k last week.

Owner speaks fluent English, and a good guy all round.

086 341 0483

[appropriate]

So breaking in:

Get the engine close to running temp.

Spend 20-30 mins going through the gears - getting it up to the redline and letting the engine brake back down.

Let it sit and cool down a bit.

After 20 mins take it out and take it into the redline for a minute or two at a time and let the engine brake back down.

After 30 mins let it cool down a bit.

Then ride the ass off it racing style for 30 or so minutes.

Does this sound alright??

[wjmark]

And just for the fun of it...

I just spent 40 hours from Chiangmai to Winnipeg. It's about -20 out, and clear night with everything covered in snow.

It's 4 in the morning, I have five layers of clothing on, and Kodiak boots (!!!).

I'm going for a walk, and I will dream about riding!

Glad people are finally getting bikes.

[Gippy]

Sangchai Auto on Ngam Wong Wan Road in Bangkok will be selling at 110k on the road for non ABS. Annie speaks good English. They have a black one just arrived but said it's not for sale as it's a show model. Perhaps if you brought a pile of cash she might change her mind!

[JUDAS]

Wife just got a call from Honda Chumphon. They have just received their first cbr250, a red on, said they will have abs version in February. We are going to pop in shortly for a quick look.

Oh yes, the real news is the price here................ 96k

Ok, went to the showroom, bike had just left to be displayed in town somewhere. Spoke to the manageress who said the 96k quote from staff was wrong, actual price is 99k! Was in a hurry but could have left a deposit then at a definite sale price of 99k. Cheapest in the country to date?

[appropriate]

Dyno pics are in:

Edited December 21, 2010 by appropriate

[canuckamuck]

What about HP?

[appropriate]

Listed as 21.44.

A fair whack down from the ninja.

Torque: 14.49, at 7,200rpm, higher than the ninja's max of 12.70 at 11,000rpm.

By the graphs is certainly seems to kick in quicker than the ninja, then the ninja takes it in the top end.

At least that's my reading of it.

But I'm possibly wrong.

[appropriate]

Guys testing fuel economy on the Thai forums are listing above 32+ kmpl cruising on the highway in the 100-120 kph range.

They say it's extremely fuel efficient. About 30 kmpl when cruising above that.

Probably coz it has no power.

Only joking.

Edited December 21, 2010 by appropriate

[canuckamuck]

I think those power numbers must be in kilowatts. that would give the CBR 28.7HP and the Ninja 34.9HP which is closer to the factory numbers.

[nikster]

Toby was so kind to let me ride his up Doi Suthep, here's my review:

Great little bike, I had a blast up the hills and in the corners, the bike is very stable at all speeds, shifting is a dream, low speed torque surprising for such a small engine. Didn't lean it all the way or redline it but it was already lots of fun. For 100k baht - OK 105, 110, 115 for the first movers - you really can't go wrong IMO. The whole package feels very refined - as you'd expect from a newly designed Honda engine. Beautiful design too.

And: It has a temperature gauge! My Versys doesn't even have that!

PS: Never had a Ninja 250, so can't compare.

Edited December 21, 2010 by nikster

[nikster]

Dunno, when Kwackerzaki introduced the Ninja 250R to Thailand it initially went on sale at a discounted price and they were throwing in 5000 Baht of free accessories to celebrate the launch in Thailand... For the folks interested in the CBR 250 they can spend a bit more and get a Ninja 250R or spend a bit less and get a Tiger Boxer 250RS. Great to have more and more choices available, don't you think?

Oh yes!!! In fact, I am super excited that there's more and more choices. I was here 5 years ago when the choices were either a very overpriced 2nd hand possibly stolen import with unknown history, or a new import with over 100% - 200% markup. The availability of new and well priced Kawasakis has turned the market upside down in Thailand, and the introduction of competition to that - well, it's just great.

I fully expect Kawa to either lower the price of the Ninja, or add features. They've already picked up the glove in the USA, MSRP for Ninja 250R 2011 is $3999 - same as the CBR250. That would be 120k baht. Kawasaki Thailand clearly has some room to move there!

[katabeachbum]

Dunno, when Kwackerzaki introduced the Ninja 250R to Thailand it initially went on sale at a discounted price and they were throwing in 5000 Baht of free accessories to celebrate the launch in Thailand... For the folks interested in the CBR 250 they can spend a bit more and get a Ninja 250R or spend a bit less and get a Tiger Boxer 250RS. Great to have more and more choices available, don't you think?

Oh yes!!! In fact, I am super excited that there's more and more choices. I was here 5 years ago when the choices were either a very overpriced 2nd hand possibly stolen import with unknown history, or a new import with over 100% - 200% markup. The availability of new and well priced Kawasakis has turned the market upside down in Thailand, and the introduction of competition to that - well, it's just great.

I fully expect Kawa to either lower the price of the Ninja, or add features. They've already picked up the glove in the USA, MSRP for Ninja 250R 2011 is $3999 - same as the CBR250. That would be 120k baht. Kawasaki Thailand clearly has some room to move there!

Throwing in ABS and other stuff could work, but lowering the price in LOS doesnt happen. One reason is that financecompanies would not deal with them, as the bikes out on finance wouldnt carry their value any more. Kwaker has chosen same route as car dealers in LOS with fixed prices usually without increase during model/spec lifetime. One advantage is co op with financecompanies offering lower interest and cleaner conditions than dealer-finance. If they realy want to push Ninjette volume, 1,99% interest would be the likely tool, subsidised by salesprice/dealer/kwaker LOS.

But its more likely they let Ninjette rest, and focus on a 1000cc, thai made, just to state who is the LOS big bike winner

[13budgies]

I think those power numbers must be in kilowatts. that would give the CBR 28.7HP and the Ninja 34.9HP which is closer to the factory numbers.

It's 21.44ps, which works out at 21.15hp.

[nikster]

Throwing in ABS and other stuff could work, but lowering the price in LOS doesnt happen. One reason is that financecompanies would not deal with them, as the bikes out on finance wouldnt carry their value any more. Kwaker has chosen same route as car dealers in LOS with fixed prices usually without increase during model/spec lifetime. One advantage is co op with financecompanies offering lower interest and cleaner conditions than dealer-finance. If they realy want to push Ninjette volume, 1,99% interest would be the likely tool, subsidised by salesprice/dealer/kwaker LOS.

But its more likely they let Ninjette rest, and focus on a 1000cc, thai made, just to state who is the LOS big bike winner

Never thought about it this way but that makes a lot of sense...

+1

[JUDAS]

Throwing in ABS and other stuff could work, but lowering the price in LOS doesnt happen. One reason is that financecompanies would not deal with them, as the bikes out on finance wouldnt carry their value any more. Kwaker has chosen same route as car dealers in LOS with fixed prices usually without increase during model/spec lifetime. One advantage is co op with financecompanies offering lower interest and cleaner conditions than dealer-finance. If they realy want to push Ninjette volume, 1,99% interest would be the likely tool, subsidised by salesprice/dealer/kwaker LOS.

But its more likely they let Ninjette rest, and focus on a 1000cc, thai made, just to state who is the LOS big bike winner

Never thought about it this way but that makes a lot of sense...

+1

kata. Would be good if you're right but if a Thai made litre bike was available it would still be 400k+? Do you think it's viable to train and equip service staff to work on a bike that 99.9% of the local population would never even consider buying? Saying they are the litre bike kings of LOS is meaningless if run at a financial lose. Would of course like to be proven wrong

[JonnyF]

Looks like the Ninja has about 20% more peak hp.

I thought it would be a bit closer than that, although the torque of the CBR vs the power at higher rpm of the Ninja kind of reinforces what a few of us have been saying about the Ninja being more race orientated and the CBR being more suited to city riding/commuting. I guess the CBR will suit a lot of people with those characteristics, kind of like a faired (single cylinder) VTR250.

[Just1Voice]

Throwing in ABS and other stuff could work, but lowering the price in LOS doesnt happen. One reason is that financecompanies would not deal with them, as the bikes out on finance wouldnt carry their value any more. Kwaker has chosen same route as car dealers in LOS with fixed prices usually without increase during model/spec lifetime. One advantage is co op with financecompanies offering lower interest and cleaner conditions than dealer-finance. If they realy want to push Ninjette volume, 1,99% interest would be the likely tool, subsidised by salesprice/dealer/kwaker LOS.

But its more likely they let Ninjette rest, and focus on a 1000cc, thai made, just to state who is the LOS big bike winner

Never thought about it this way but that makes a lot of sense...

+1

kata. Would be good if you're right but if a Thai made litre bike was available it would still be 400k+? Do you think it's viable to train and equip service staff to work on a bike that 99.9% of the local population would never even consider buying? Saying they are the litre bike kings of LOS is meaningless if run at a financial lose. Would of course like to be proven wrong

I agree. a 1000cc bike would simply be too expensive. If they wanted to go bigger, to me it would make more sense to move up to a 400 class bike, but even that is going to be beyond the finances of most. Anything bigger, for LOS, would, in my opinion, be an exercise in futility. But, hey, who knows?

[BigBikeBKK]

But its more likely they let Ninjette rest, and focus on a 1000cc, thai made, just to state who is the LOS big bike winner

That's a joke right? In a country of 66 million people where all of the manufacturers combined sell perhaps 100-200 liter bikes a year you don't really expect any manufacturer to let the Thai market influence their production strategy, do you?

[Martiny]

Throwing in ABS and other stuff could work, but lowering the price in LOS doesnt happen. One reason is that financecompanies would not deal with them, as the bikes out on finance wouldnt carry their value any more. Kwaker has chosen same route as car dealers in LOS with fixed prices usually without increase during model/spec lifetime. One advantage is co op with financecompanies offering lower interest and cleaner conditions than dealer-finance. If they realy want to push Ninjette volume, 1,99% interest would be the likely tool, subsidised by salesprice/dealer/kwaker LOS.

But its more likely they let Ninjette rest, and focus on a 1000cc, thai made, just to state who is the LOS big bike winner

Never thought about it this way but that makes a lot of sense...

+1

kata. Would be good if you're right but if a Thai made litre bike was available it would still be 400k+? Do you think it's viable to train and equip service staff to work on a bike that 99.9% of the local population would never even consider buying? Saying they are the litre bike kings of LOS is meaningless if run at a financial lose. Would of course like to be proven wrong

I agree. a 1000cc bike would simply be too expensive. If they wanted to go bigger, to me it would make more sense to move up to a 400 class bike, but even that is going to be beyond the finances of most. Anything bigger, for LOS, would, in my opinion, be an exercise in futility. But, hey, who knows?

The way I see it... if Kawasaki wants to make a bike that'll sell well here, it's not another sports bike that they need. They need a 250-400 classic roadster, built in Thailand. A little bit or exactly like that W650 they had. Thais love the old school bikes... CL400s, SR400s, CB125s... classic looking bikes!

Suzuki's got one that they have yet to release here... I'd buy one any day, if it came out...That's my humble opinion on that matter, but eh this is a CBR 250 Forum, nah?

Edited December 21, 2010 by Martiny

[Martiny]

I should be honest and add that I'm also a fan of the classic roadsters...

ps the Suzuki I'm talking about has been available in the states since 2009 under the name Tu250X.

[snowflake]

Should be less than 20 hours till i will be riding my bike... I know where it is now- and it in reach...

[13budgies]

In this article they say the new Honda CBR 250 puts out only ~26 Hp at the crank:

"Peak power at the crankshaft is stated to be 25.8 hp at 8500 rpm"

http://www.motorcycl...view-90193.html

That means you'll be lucky to get ~20-23 Hp at the rear wheel...

For those who like to compare this bike with the Kawasaki Ninja 250R the new CBR 250's 10-20% deficit in Hp is a big handicap for such a small-displacement motorcycle.

In the US the MSRP for the Ninja 250R and CBR 250 are identical- $3999. Add $500 if you want ABS on the CBR. No doubt it will sell well here in Thailand thanks to the cheaper price and Honda badge, but globally I don't think Kawasaki has to worry too much about losing their dominance in the 250cc niche. Now that Kawasaki finally has some competition in the 250cc market perhaps it will even push them to improve the little Ninja.

Ride On!

Tony

If those crank numbers are correct I'd reckon, unless Honda's figured a way to reduce driveline loss way more than other manufacturers, that the low-end of your estimate is correct (i.e. just shy of 21 RWHP)...which is something like 80% of Kawi's top HP. But that also comes in at some 80% of the RPMs also!

However, since HP is a derived number, and the RPMs and gearing don't line up, why even bother looking at it? Torque is a real number; compare that at similar speeds and see how the bikes fair. It makes me wonder if an aftermarket ECU (remove the rev limiter) comes out, a bit of cam indexing and then how will the HP numbers compare since there's such an infatuation with them.

Having made that last paragraph I'd like to say that 10% is really nothing in the smaller bikes (if someone ways 60 kg and puts on an extra 10% it's not much; a 100 kg person putting on 10% more mass is quite a bit) but a 20% difference in directly comparable metrics is quite large.

From that website you linked to I also took a look at the Ninja 250R v Megelli 250R comparison. The Magelli seems to be really close to the CBR 250R in output; I may be mis-reading it but it appears that it made 20,5 HP on the dyno. As such this paragraph is paramout to a Ninja/CBR comparison:

Despite our Megelli's carburetion issues, it retained an edge over the Ninja until 8,500 rpm when its output flattens out on the way to its rev limiter 1,000 revs later. It generates its 20.5 horsepower peak at 8,250 rpm. However, sprint and top speed honors go to the high-revving Ninja. Horsepower numbers are about equal at 8,300 revs, but from there the Kawi is just beginning to hit its stride and takes advantage of its higher-revving powerplant. Spool up all of its 25-plus ponies, and it consistently runs away.

I scoured the web and could not find the gear ratios for the Megelli; I did see though that it has only a 5 speed gearbox. It's safe to say that everyone's in agreement that 6 is better than 5 (I mean who wants to buy a five pack?)--after each gear in a 5 speed needs to cover ~20% more speed. I will make a prediction that the CBR, having a really good low end combined with shorter gearing than the Ninja, will destroy it in city driving where you seldom get above 4^th gear and achieve parity on highway driving...even though you'll be rowing through the gears to keep up there.

This picture represents a spreadsheet I whipped up (available upon request). It's quite interesting that the CBR maintains a good margin over the Ninja in every gear with the exception of first (where they're tied). In fact it appears that in 3rd and 4th it will run within a couple of kph of the Ninja RPM for RPM and will go a bit faster, once again RPM for RPM, in fifth. BUT (!) that's with the Ninja running in one higher gear! Oh you say, you're going to be shifting like a madman; however look at where the CBR drops off when you upshift. 1-2 is 6500, 2-3 is 7500, 3-4 is ~8750, 4-5 is 9000, 5-6 is 9000. Pretty cool as that is where it's making peak power (remeber more torque than the Ninja) and those taller gears should keep a race fairly close--least ways, IMHO, until 120 or so.

Dave, you're clutching at straws! As far as performance goes, ie acceleration, you can talk about torque all you like but it needs the time factor to give the power (rate of doing work) that counts, thats where RPM comes in. I really wish it were not so, I'm a Honda man through and through, but the Kawasaki has a more than 21% power advantage over the CBR. As for max speed, unless Kawasaki have got the gearing drastically wrong (and I'm pretty sure they haven't), they've got that too.

The higher torque/lower revs may make the CBR more pleasant (less frantic) to ride in certain circumstances, but performance wise, it would appear that the Kawsasaki has it.

[CMX]

It appears that our choices are clear. 40,000-47,000 baht approx. gets me bragging rights. Significant, if if essentially unimportant in a beginner's bike.

Then ABS.

Pays yer money and you takes yer choice.

Edited December 21, 2010 by CMX

[dave_boo]

If those crank numbers are correct I'd reckon, unless Honda's figured a way to reduce driveline loss way more than other manufacturers, that the low-end of your estimate is correct (i.e. just shy of 21 RWHP)...which is something like 80% of Kawi's top HP. But that also comes in at some 80% of the RPMs also!

However, since HP is a derived number, and the RPMs and gearing don't line up, why even bother looking at it? Torque is a real number; compare that at similar speeds and see how the bikes fair. It makes me wonder if an aftermarket ECU (remove the rev limiter) comes out, a bit of cam indexing and then how will the HP numbers compare since there's such an infatuation with them.

Having made that last paragraph I'd like to say that 10% is really nothing in the smaller bikes (if someone ways 60 kg and puts on an extra 10% it's not much; a 100 kg person putting on 10% more mass is quite a bit) but a 20% difference in directly comparable metrics is quite large.

From that website you linked to I also took a look at the Ninja 250R v Megelli 250R comparison. The Magelli seems to be really close to the CBR 250R in output; I may be mis-reading it but it appears that it made 20,5 HP on the dyno. As such this paragraph is paramout to a Ninja/CBR comparison:

Despite our Megelli's carburetion issues, it retained an edge over the Ninja until 8,500 rpm when its output flattens out on the way to its rev limiter 1,000 revs later. It generates its 20.5 horsepower peak at 8,250 rpm. However, sprint and top speed honors go to the high-revving Ninja. Horsepower numbers are about equal at 8,300 revs, but from there the Kawi is just beginning to hit its stride and takes advantage of its higher-revving powerplant. Spool up all of its 25-plus ponies, and it consistently runs away.

I scoured the web and could not find the gear ratios for the Megelli; I did see though that it has only a 5 speed gearbox. It's safe to say that everyone's in agreement that 6 is better than 5 (I mean who wants to buy a five pack?)--after each gear in a 5 speed needs to cover ~20% more speed. I will make a prediction that the CBR, having a really good low end combined with shorter gearing than the Ninja, will destroy it in city driving where you seldom get above 4^th gear and achieve parity on highway driving...even though you'll be rowing through the gears to keep up there.

This picture represents a spreadsheet I whipped up (available upon request). It's quite interesting that the CBR maintains a good margin over the Ninja in every gear with the exception of first (where they're tied). In fact it appears that in 3rd and 4th it will run within a couple of kph of the Ninja RPM for RPM and will go a bit faster, once again RPM for RPM, in fifth. BUT (!) that's with the Ninja running in one higher gear! Oh you say, you're going to be shifting like a madman; however look at where the CBR drops off when you upshift. 1-2 is 6500, 2-3 is 7500, 3-4 is ~8750, 4-5 is 9000, 5-6 is 9000. Pretty cool as that is where it's making peak power (remeber more torque than the Ninja) and those taller gears should keep a race fairly close--least ways, IMHO, until 120 or so.

Dave, you're clutching at straws! As far as performance goes, ie acceleration, you can talk about torque all you like but it needs the time factor to give the power (rate of doing work) that counts, thats where RPM comes in. I really wish it were not so, I'm a Honda man through and through, but the Kawasaki has a more than 21% power advantage over the CBR. As for max speed, unless Kawasaki have got the gearing drastically wrong (and I'm pretty sure they haven't), they've got that too.

The higher torque/lower revs may make the CBR more pleasant (less frantic) to ride in certain circumstances, but performance wise, it would appear that the Kawsasaki has it.

If the link I provided comparing the Magelli vs the Ninja doesn't mean anything to you (and you insist on looking at solely HP), let's look at the V-max (gen1) vs the FZ1 (gen1). The 81% HP (going by the dyno earlier in this thread and compared to the dyno of AreaP) is directly comparable since the V-Max made 113 HP and the FZ1 made 140. According to this site the V-Max and FZ1 post nearly identical timeslips....why? Torque and gearing baby.

In fact while the V-max has only 79.9% of the power of the FZ1 (peak power on the CBR is 84% of the Ninja's--not sure where you found a 27 HP stock Ninja--but if you did my point still stands), the V-max has 106% of the torque that the FZ1 puts out (compared to peak torque on the CBR being 109% of the Ninja's).....care to discuss that?

Your assertions about HP are true when there are no force multiplers. Unfortunately there is in a motorcycle; it's called gearing. A quick thought experiment; if I can lift 50 kilos at a time to your 60, and we had to put 5 60 kilo bags (total of 300 kg) up on a shelf, but I had a mechanical advantage of 1.2 via a pulley, would we not finish at the same time?

As far as max speed on the Ninja is concerned, as stated earlier I've seen 154 fully tucked in. That's either bouncing off the rev limiter in 5^th or 11250 in 6^th. There's serious overlap between 5th and 6th on the Ninja; however there really isn't power to go faster than that; least ways with me on it.

Final point I'd like to make; while I was off approximately 0,5 HP on the CBR, it's strange that it is so close to the 80% (80.9%)of the manufacerer's stated claims... 26.5 is what I remember; however Kawasaki claims 33 for their Ninja and the aforementioned dyno has it at 25.32. That's 76.7%....26.4 is what I would expect to see from a Ninja considering the claims by Kawasaki.

[nikotin888]

[Kernow86]

If those crank numbers are correct I'd reckon, unless Honda's figured a way to reduce driveline loss way more than other manufacturers, that the low-end of your estimate is correct (i.e. just shy of 21 RWHP)...which is something like 80% of Kawi's top HP. But that also comes in at some 80% of the RPMs also!

However, since HP is a derived number, and the RPMs and gearing don't line up, why even bother looking at it? Torque is a real number; compare that at similar speeds and see how the bikes fair. It makes me wonder if an aftermarket ECU (remove the rev limiter) comes out, a bit of cam indexing and then how will the HP numbers compare since there's such an infatuation with them.

Having made that last paragraph I'd like to say that 10% is really nothing in the smaller bikes (if someone ways 60 kg and puts on an extra 10% it's not much; a 100 kg person putting on 10% more mass is quite a bit) but a 20% difference in directly comparable metrics is quite large.

From that website you linked to I also took a look at the Ninja 250R v Megelli 250R comparison. The Magelli seems to be really close to the CBR 250R in output; I may be mis-reading it but it appears that it made 20,5 HP on the dyno. As such this paragraph is paramout to a Ninja/CBR comparison:

Despite our Megelli's carburetion issues, it retained an edge over the Ninja until 8,500 rpm when its output flattens out on the way to its rev limiter 1,000 revs later. It generates its 20.5 horsepower peak at 8,250 rpm. However, sprint and top speed honors go to the high-revving Ninja. Horsepower numbers are about equal at 8,300 revs, but from there the Kawi is just beginning to hit its stride and takes advantage of its higher-revving powerplant. Spool up all of its 25-plus ponies, and it consistently runs away.

I scoured the web and could not find the gear ratios for the Megelli; I did see though that it has only a 5 speed gearbox. It's safe to say that everyone's in agreement that 6 is better than 5 (I mean who wants to buy a five pack?)--after each gear in a 5 speed needs to cover ~20% more speed. I will make a prediction that the CBR, having a really good low end combined with shorter gearing than the Ninja, will destroy it in city driving where you seldom get above 4^th gear and achieve parity on highway driving...even though you'll be rowing through the gears to keep up there.

This picture represents a spreadsheet I whipped up (available upon request). It's quite interesting that the CBR maintains a good margin over the Ninja in every gear with the exception of first (where they're tied). In fact it appears that in 3rd and 4th it will run within a couple of kph of the Ninja RPM for RPM and will go a bit faster, once again RPM for RPM, in fifth. BUT (!) that's with the Ninja running in one higher gear! Oh you say, you're going to be shifting like a madman; however look at where the CBR drops off when you upshift. 1-2 is 6500, 2-3 is 7500, 3-4 is ~8750, 4-5 is 9000, 5-6 is 9000. Pretty cool as that is where it's making peak power (remeber more torque than the Ninja) and those taller gears should keep a race fairly close--least ways, IMHO, until 120 or so.

Dave, you're clutching at straws! As far as performance goes, ie acceleration, you can talk about torque all you like but it needs the time factor to give the power (rate of doing work) that counts, thats where RPM comes in. I really wish it were not so, I'm a Honda man through and through, but the Kawasaki has a more than 21% power advantage over the CBR. As for max speed, unless Kawasaki have got the gearing drastically wrong (and I'm pretty sure they haven't), they've got that too.

The higher torque/lower revs may make the CBR more pleasant (less frantic) to ride in certain circumstances, but performance wise, it would appear that the Kawsasaki has it.

If the link I provided comparing the Magelli vs the Ninja doesn't mean anything to you (and you insist on looking at solely HP), let's look at the V-max (gen1) vs the FZ1 (gen1). The 81% HP (going by the dyno earlier in this thread and compared to the dyno of AreaP) is directly comparable since the V-Max made 113 HP and the FZ1 made 140. According to this site the V-Max and FZ1 post nearly identical timeslips....why? Torque and gearing baby.

In fact while the V-max has only 79.9% of the power of the FZ1 (peak power on the CBR is 84% of the Ninja's--not sure where you found a 27 HP stock Ninja--but if you did my point still stands), the V-max has 106% of the torque that the FZ1 puts out (compared to peak torque on the CBR being 109% of the Ninja's).....care to discuss that?

Your assertions about HP are true when there are no force multiplers. Unfortunately there is in a motorcycle; it's called gearing. A quick thought experiment; if I can lift 50 kilos at a time to your 60, and we had to put 5 60 kilo bags (total of 300 kg) up on a shelf, but I had a mechanical advantage of 1.2 via a pulley, would we not finish at the same time?

As far as max speed on the Ninja is concerned, as stated earlier I've seen 154 fully tucked in. That's either bouncing off the rev limiter in 5^th or 11250 in 6^th. There's serious overlap between 5th and 6th on the Ninja; however there really isn't power to go faster than that; least ways with me on it.

Final point I'd like to make; while I was off approximately 0,5 HP on the CBR, it's strange that it is so close to the 80% (80.9%)of the manufacerer's stated claims... 26.5 is what I remember; however Kawasaki claims 33 for their Ninja and the aforementioned dyno has it at 25.32. That's 76.7%....26.4 is what I would expect to see from a Ninja considering the claims by Kawasaki.

[katabeachbum]

Throwing in ABS and other stuff could work, but lowering the price in LOS doesnt happen. One reason is that financecompanies would not deal with them, as the bikes out on finance wouldnt carry their value any more. Kwaker has chosen same route as car dealers in LOS with fixed prices usually without increase during model/spec lifetime. One advantage is co op with financecompanies offering lower interest and cleaner conditions than dealer-finance. If they realy want to push Ninjette volume, 1,99% interest would be the likely tool, subsidised by salesprice/dealer/kwaker LOS.

But its more likely they let Ninjette rest, and focus on a 1000cc, thai made, just to state who is the LOS big bike winner

Never thought about it this way but that makes a lot of sense...

+1

kata. Would be good if you're right but if a Thai made litre bike was available it would still be 400k+? Do you think it's viable to train and equip service staff to work on a bike that 99.9% of the local population would never even consider buying? Saying they are the litre bike kings of LOS is meaningless if run at a financial lose. Would of course like to be proven wrong

I agree. a 1000cc bike would simply be too expensive. If they wanted to go bigger, to me it would make more sense to move up to a 400 class bike, but even that is going to be beyond the finances of most. Anything bigger, for LOS, would, in my opinion, be an exercise in futility. But, hey, who knows?

Sorry for going off topic here, but

first there was Ninjette at 150k

then ER6n at 200k

then Ninja 650R at 257k

now Versys at 285

next step to keep customers in house? kwaker does not want them to go yammy, triumph or ducati

99,9% of the locals dont by bikes larger than 135cc anyway. o,o1% is still good business more kwakers sold than Ford cars and trucks in LOS. Not bad :jap:

Ninjette was their starter bike. Still nice to keep, but no reason trying to match CBR250s price, as CBR250 is Hondas top of the range bike. Next step for a CBR250 rider is kwaker anyway, if price on bike and running costs is a concern, and legality is required. So far in LOS.

Back to CBR 250. Seems like a great little bike at a great price. Power at lower rpms than Ninjette and slightly short of top performance, but hey for 40k baht difference

[BigBikeBKK]

Sorry for going off topic here, but

first there was Ninjette at 150k

then ER6n at 200k

then Ninja 650R at 257k

now Versys at 285

next step to keep customers in house? kwaker does not want them to go yammy, triumph or ducati

99,9% of the locals dont by bikes larger than 135cc anyway. o,o1% is still good business more kwakers sold than Ford cars and trucks in LOS. Not bad :jap:

Ninjette was their starter bike. Still nice to keep, but no reason trying to match CBR250s price, as CBR250 is Hondas top of the range bike. Next step for a CBR250 rider is kwaker anyway, if price on bike and running costs is a concern, and legality is required. So far in LOS.

Back to CBR 250. Seems like a great little bike at a great price. Power at lower rpms than Ninjette and slightly short of top performance, but hey for 40k baht difference

FWIW the Ninjette started at 132K back in 2008.

Also, your forgetting the real Kwackerzaki starter bike- the KSR110

Those little bikes have sold like hotcakes and you see them everywhere!

Cheap as chips, tough as nails and infinitely customizable too!

Let the Good Times ROLL!

Tony

[Just1Voice]

Those little bikes have sold like hotcakes and you see them everywhere!

Totally agree with that statement! From talking with a few "youngsters" I know, it appears to be on its way as the "the bike of choice" for university students, with both male and female riders.

But I've also noted something else. I would say that a good 80% of those I've seen on them are wearing helmets. Don't know if that's something that Kawa did, such as a free one with bike, or what, but whatever, it's a good thing.

Ok, back to the 250's. Stopped at Honda by Airport here in CMX. Not a single 150 or 250 anywhere in sight! Not in showroom, not back in service area, and I even went back to the receiving dept, and nothing there.

Someone bet the 250 would outsell the Ninja 5:1. I have a feeling it's going to be closer to 10:1.