Honda Cbr 250R 2011

[visions]

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Ok, back to the 250's. Stopped at Honda by Airport here in CMX. Not a single 150 or 250 anywhere in sight! Not in showroom, not back in service area, and I even went back to the receiving dept, and nothing there.

Someone bet the 250 would outsell the Ninja 5:1. I have a feeling it's going to be closer to 10:1.

100% guess with nothing to back it up with......but I think 2010 will see more CBR250s sold in Thailand than Kwaker 250s.... despite the non availability of the Honda.

[Kernow86]

Those little bikes have sold like hotcakes and you see them everywhere!

Totally agree with that statement! From talking with a few "youngsters" I know, it appears to be on its way as the "the bike of choice" for university students, with both male and female riders.

But I've also noted something else. I would say that a good 80% of those I've seen on them are wearing helmets. Don't know if that's something that Kawa did, such as a free one with bike, or what, but whatever, it's a good thing.

Ok, back to the 250's. Stopped at Honda by Airport here in CMX. Not a single 150 or 250 anywhere in sight! Not in showroom, not back in service area, and I even went back to the receiving dept, and nothing there.

Someone bet the 250 would outsell the Ninja 5:1. I have a feeling it's going to be closer to 10:1.

Perhaps it's not that have sold them all but that they haven't received any yet? Honda will find it difficult to sell ANY if they cant get them to the dealers. Yes, I may be bitter because Phuket seems to be the last province to welcome the 250...

[billd766]

Those little bikes have sold like hotcakes and you see them everywhere!

Totally agree with that statement! From talking with a few "youngsters" I know, it appears to be on its way as the "the bike of choice" for university students, with both male and female riders.

But I've also noted something else. I would say that a good 80% of those I've seen on them are wearing helmets. Don't know if that's something that Kawa did, such as a free one with bike, or what, but whatever, it's a good thing.

Ok, back to the 250's. Stopped at Honda by Airport here in CMX. Not a single 150 or 250 anywhere in sight! Not in showroom, not back in service area, and I even went back to the receiving dept, and nothing there.

Someone bet the 250 would outsell the Ninja 5:1. I have a feeling it's going to be closer to 10:1.

Perhaps it's not that have sold them all but that they haven't received any yet? Honda will find it difficult to sell ANY if they cant get them to the dealers. Yes, I may be bitter because Phuket seems to be the last province to welcome the 250...

Khampaeng Phet province has a large supply of 250 brochures but nary a sight or sound of the real thing.

Ah well, us bannocks will have to settle for the Kubota 120 or 140 tractor or perhaps a real motorbike like the Phantom.

[Just1Voice]

Ah well, us bannocks will have to settle for the Kubota 120 or 140 tractor or perhaps a real motorbike like the Phantom.

Thank you for providing me with a good laugh this morning in regards to your comment about a "real motorbike like the Phantom". It's a nice looking bike, and would probably be a good, comfortable "cruiser" for long highway trips. Well, as long as you don't plan on going over 110kph.

[thaicbr]

I suppose it depends on IF the dealers ordered any 250's.. Don't forget the shops selling the Honda Cbr250 are scooter shops. And we know that they can be reserved about new things. I would think January and you will see lots more of these in the shops and on the road..

[Kernow86]

Ah well, us bannocks will have to settle for the Kubota 120 or 140 tractor or perhaps a real motorbike like the Phantom.

Thank you for providing me with a good laugh this morning in regards to your comment about a "real motorbike like the Phantom". It's a nice looking bike, and would probably be a good, comfortable "cruiser" for long highway trips. Well, as long as you don't plan on going over 110kph.

I agree but didn't want to take the p**s!

[Kernow86]

I suppose it depends on IF the dealers ordered any 250's.. Don't forget the shops selling the Honda Cbr250 are scooter shops. And we know that they can be reserved about new things. I would think January and you will see lots more of these in the shops and on the road..

Well mine claims they have. They said two weeks, three weeks ago and the latest is January. I guess it works both ways though...one could turn up anytime. I think they might get fed up with me coming to check though. . .

On the plus side I think the forum is building the excitement nicely! I feel like a kid before Christmas again! Only 10 sleeps until Santa delivers the new CBR to Phuket!

[billd766]

Ah well, us bannocks will have to settle for the Kubota 120 or 140 tractor or perhaps a real motorbike like the Phantom.

Thank you for providing me with a good laugh this morning in regards to your comment about a "real motorbike like the Phantom". It's a nice looking bike, and would probably be a good, comfortable "cruiser" for long highway trips. Well, as long as you don't plan on going over 110kph.

I agree but didn't want to take the p**s!

I would love to go as fast as 110 kph and it was a tongue in cheek comment.

However it doesn't look too bad and I have taken mine 400 or 500 miles in a day on a trip.

I have had mine 17 months and clocked 24,000 km on it and I would love it to have a bigger engine, gearbox with better ratios, water cooling, CBS etc but then it wouldn't be a Phantom.

A rocket ship it is not but at least it exists at the moment unlike the 250 with CBS which will most likely available in numbers next year.

[13budgies]

If those crank numbers are correct I'd reckon, unless Honda's figured a way to reduce driveline loss way more than other manufacturers, that the low-end of your estimate is correct (i.e. just shy of 21 RWHP)...which is something like 80% of Kawi's top HP. But that also comes in at some 80% of the RPMs also!

However, since HP is a derived number, and the RPMs and gearing don't line up, why even bother looking at it? Torque is a real number; compare that at similar speeds and see how the bikes fair. It makes me wonder if an aftermarket ECU (remove the rev limiter) comes out, a bit of cam indexing and then how will the HP numbers compare since there's such an infatuation with them.

Having made that last paragraph I'd like to say that 10% is really nothing in the smaller bikes (if someone ways 60 kg and puts on an extra 10% it's not much; a 100 kg person putting on 10% more mass is quite a bit) but a 20% difference in directly comparable metrics is quite large.

From that website you linked to I also took a look at the Ninja 250R v Megelli 250R comparison. The Magelli seems to be really close to the CBR 250R in output; I may be mis-reading it but it appears that it made 20,5 HP on the dyno. As such this paragraph is paramout to a Ninja/CBR comparison:

Despite our M

egelli's carburetion issues, it retained an edge over the Ninja until 8,500 rpm when its output flattens out on the way to its rev limiter 1,000 revs later. It generates its 20.5 horsepower peak at 8,250 rpm. However, sprint and top speed honors go to the high-revving Ninja. Horsepower numbers are about equal at 8,300 revs, but from there the Kawi is just beginning to hit its stride and takes advantage of its higher-revving powerplant. Spool up all of its 25-plus ponies, and it consistently runs away.

I scoured the web and could not find the gear ratios for the Megelli; I did see though that it has only a 5 speed gearbox. It's safe to say that everyone's in agreement that 6 is better than 5 (I mean who wants to buy a five pack?)--after each gear in a 5 speed needs to cover ~20% more speed. I will make a prediction that the CBR, having a really good low end combined with shorter gearing than the Ninja, will destroy it in city driving where you seldom get above 4^th gear and achieve parity on highway driving...even though you'll be rowing through the gears to keep up there.

This picture represents a spreadsheet I whipped up (available upon request). It's quite interesting that the CBR maintains a good margin over the Ninja in every gear with the exception of first (where they're tied). In fact it appears that in 3rd and 4th it will run within a couple of kph of the Ninja RPM for RPM and will go a bit faster, once again RPM for RPM, in fifth. BUT (!) that's with the Ninja running in one higher gear! Oh you say, you're going to be shifting like a madman; however look at where the CBR drops off when you upshift. 1-2 is 6500, 2-3 is 7500, 3-4 is ~8750, 4-5 is 9000, 5-6 is 9000. Pretty cool as that is where it's making peak power (remeber more torque than the Ninja) and those taller gears should keep a race fairly close--least ways, IMHO, until 120 or so.

Dave, you're clutching at straws! As far as performance goes, ie acceleration, you can talk about torque all you like but it needs the time factor to give the power (rate of doing work) that counts, thats where RPM comes in. I really wish it were not so, I'm a Honda man through and through, but the Kawasaki has a more than 21% power advantage over the CBR. As for max speed, unless Kawasaki have got the gearing drastically wrong (and I'm pretty sure they haven't), they've got that too.

The higher torque/lower revs may make the CBR more pleasant (less frantic) to ride in certain circumstances, but performance wise, it would appear that the Kawsasaki has it.

If the link I provided comparing the Magelli vs the Ninja doesn't mean anything to you (and you insist on looking at solely HP), let's look at the V-max (gen1) vs the FZ1 (gen1). The 81% HP (going by the dyno earlier in this thread and compared to the dyno of AreaP) is directly comparable since the V-Max made 113 HP and the FZ1 made 140. According to this site the V-Max and FZ1 post nearly identical timeslips....why? Torque and gearing baby.

In fact while the V-max has only 79.9% of the power of the FZ1 (peak power on the CBR is 84% of the Ninja's--not sure where you found a 27 HP stock Ninja--but if you did my point still stands), the V-max has 106% of the torque that the FZ1 puts out (compared to peak torque on the CBR being 109% of the Ninja's).....care to discuss that?

Your assertions about HP are true when there are no force multiplers. Unfortunately there is in a motorcycle; it's called gearing. A quick thought experiment; if I can lift 50 kilos at a time to your 60, and we had to put 5 60 kilo bags (total of 300 kg) up on a shelf, but I had a mechanical advantage of 1.2 via a pulley, would we not finish at the same time?

As far as max speed on the Ninja is concerned, as stated earlier I've seen 154 fully tucked in. That's either bouncing off the rev limiter in 5^th or 11250 in 6^th. There's serious overlap between 5th and 6th on the Ninja; however there really isn't power to go faster than that; least ways with me on it.

Final point I'd like to make; while I was off approximately 0,5 HP on the CBR, it's strange that it is so close to the 80% (80.9%)of the manufacerer's stated claims... 26.5 is what I remember; however Kawasaki claims 33 for their Ninja and the aforementioned dyno has it at 25.32. That's 76.7%....26.4 is what I would expect to see from a Ninja considering the claims by Kawasaki.

The Megelli had the edge up to 8500, then the Kawasaki takes over. But once it has passed 8500 in 1st gear and changing up at 12300 it never drops below 8500 again (except 1st to 2nd when it drops to 8465 --courtesy of gearing commander-- but I think we can safely ignore that) all the way up through the gears to max speed, So it's producing more power than the Megelli for maybe 99%of the run.

As to your example with the 60kg bags, we would not finish at the same time since you have to pull through 1.2 times more rope than me with my non mechanical advantage pulley, you would take 20% longer. Ther's no such thing as a free lunch as far as gearing goes!

[Just1Voice]

Ah well, us bannocks will have to settle for the Kubota 120 or 140 tractor or perhaps a real motorbike like the Phantom.

Thank you for providing me with a good laugh this morning in regards to your comment about a "real motorbike like the Phantom". It's a nice looking bike, and would probably be a good, comfortable "cruiser" for long highway trips. Well, as long as you don't plan on going over 110kph.

I agree but didn't want to take the p**s!

I would love to go as fast as 110 kph and it was a tongue in cheek comment.

However it doesn't look too bad and I have taken mine 400 or 500 miles in a day on a trip.

I have had mine 17 months and clocked 24,000 km on it and I would love it to have a bigger engine, gearbox with better ratios, water cooling, CBS etc but then it wouldn't be a Phantom.

A rocket ship it is not but at least it exists at the moment unlike the 250 with CBS which will most likely available in numbers next year.

Ok, a couple of weeks back the Honda showroom in CMX had a couple of brand new Honda Steed's. 400cc, Kind of like a Phantom on steroids. But they only lasted a couple of days and then were gone.

[thaicbr]

Ok, a couple of weeks back the Honda showroom in CMX had a couple of brand new Honda Steed's. 400cc, Kind of like a Phantom on steroids. But they only lasted a couple of days and then were gone.

Are you sure they were NEW Honda steeds. I thought they were no longer made. The Steed 400 that is ??????

[mbox]

Are you sure they were NEW Honda steeds. I thought they were no longer made. The Steed 400 that is ??????

I read a post on GT-rider from Ian Bungy saying the same, New 400cc Steeds for 159000 thb....somewhere in CM spotted.

mbox

[snowflake]

Ok, so the monkeys at honda told me latest this morning- 100k- flat- only for me to pop down there to pick up the bike- then they wanted 4k extra... I told them to stuff that- i was off on a day trip so no time to argue... I will be back in the morning with the mayor... He will set them straight... It was ready for me, paperwork done and sent off... How will they fix this? Will update tomorrow...

[wjmark]

Ok, a couple of weeks back the Honda showroom in CMX had a couple of brand new Honda Steed's. 400cc, Kind of like a Phantom on steroids. But they only lasted a couple of days and then were gone.

Yah - I saw some big banners advertising them. 159,000+

Not new at all! They are factory refurbished with tens of thousands of kilometers on them...

(And kind of an unpleasant bike I thought when I did a visa run on one)

[Just1Voice]

New or factory refurbished, I don't know. But the LOOKED like brand spanking new Honda Steed VLX 400cc. I didn't bother asking price because I was busy checking out the new CBR 150.

[BigBikeBKK]

Ok, so the monkeys at honda told me latest this morning- 100k- flat- only for me to pop down there to pick up the bike- then they wanted 4k extra... I told them to stuff that- i was off on a day trip so no time to argue... I will be back in the morning with the mayor... He will set them straight... It was ready for me, paperwork done and sent off... How will they fix this? Will update tomorrow...

You walked over 4000 Baht?! You want the bike or not?!

Looking at the ThaiVisa crowd I'd divide the prospective CBR 250 buyers into two groups.

First are posers and wannabes who want to ride a bike that LOOKS fast, even though they don't actually have the skills to go fast. Many of them can't afford anything bigger or faster than the CBR 250 and even if they did buy bigger / faster bikes they wouldn't know how to ride them. I guess it's pretty obvious I don't have much respect for those guys...

Second group are the older guys (many (not all) with limited funds) who are looking for a cheap small easy-to-ride bike that they will mainly use for short trips around town and the occasional day trip and don't want or need anything big or fast. I think for that purpose the CBR 250 will be well suited. (Though a Boxer 250RS would probably be an even better all-purpose city bike...) Personally I've enjoyed amazing after sales service on my Tiger Retro, but I think the lack of Tiger dealers and service points continue to hurt Tiger sales overall.

Problem with faired bikes like the CB"R" 250 and Ninjette, especially if you park them in amongst all the scooters, is that invariably the fairings will get scratched up. That's why I prefer a naked bike for city use. And besides, fairings on a 250 are mostly for show- it's rare that you go fast enough on a 250 to actually need or benefit from fairings...

Ride On!

Tony

[Just1Voice]

Ok, so the monkeys at honda told me latest this morning- 100k- flat- only for me to pop down there to pick up the bike- then they wanted 4k extra... I told them to stuff that- i was off on a day trip so no time to argue... I will be back in the morning with the mayor... He will set them straight... It was ready for me, paperwork done and sent off... How will they fix this? Will update tomorrow...

You walked over 4000 Baht?! You want the bike or not?!

Looking at the ThaiVisa crowd I'd divide the prospective CBR 250 buyers into two groups.

First are posers and wannabes who want to ride a bike that LOOKS fast, even though they don't actually have the skills to go fast. Many of them can't afford anything bigger or faster than the CBR 250 and even if they did buy bigger / faster bikes they wouldn't know how to ride them. I guess it's pretty obvious I don't have much respect for those guys...

Second group are the older guys (many with limited funds) who are looking for a cheap small easy-to-ride bike that they will mainly use for short trips around town and the occasional day trip and don't want or need anything big or fast. I think for that purpose the CBR 250 will be well suited. (Though a Boxer 250RS would probably be an even better all-purpose city bike...) Personally I've enjoyed amazing after sales service on my Tiger Retro, but I think the lack of Tiger dealers and service points continue to hurt Tiger sales overall.

Problem with faired bikes like the CB"R" 250 and Ninjette, especially if you park them in amongst all the scooters, is that invariably the fairings will get scratched up. That's why I prefer a naked bike for city use. And besides, fairings on a 250 are mostly for show- it's rare that you go fast enough on a 250 to actually need or benefit from fairings...

Ride On!

Tony

Tend to agree with your assessment, but just wonder where that would put me. First "mini bike" at 8, started doing dirt and motocross at 12 (along with go-carts). Have had Norton 650 Commando, Harley Sportster, Honda Shadow and Ninja 650, but now am perfectly happy with the new CBR 150. Hummm, maybe old age is catching up with me. lol

[thaicbr]

Ok, so the monkeys at honda told me latest this morning- 100k- flat- only for me to pop down there to pick up the bike- then they wanted 4k extra... I told them to stuff that- i was off on a day trip so no time to argue... I will be back in the morning with the mayor... He will set them straight... It was ready for me, paperwork done and sent off... How will they fix this? Will update tomorrow...

You walked over 4000 Baht?! You want the bike or not?!

Looking at the ThaiVisa crowd I'd divide the prospective CBR 250 buyers into two groups.

First are posers and wannabes who want to ride a bike that LOOKS fast, even though they don't actually have the skills to go fast. Many of them can't afford anything bigger or faster than the CBR 250 and even if they did buy bigger / faster bikes they wouldn't know how to ride them. I guess it's pretty obvious I don't have much respect for those guys...

Second group are the older guys (many with limited funds) who are looking for a cheap small easy-to-ride bike that they will mainly use for short trips around town and the occasional day trip and don't want or need anything big or fast. I think for that purpose the CBR 250 will be well suited. (Though a Boxer 250RS would probably be an even better all-purpose city bike...) Personally I've enjoyed amazing after sales service on my Tiger Retro, but I think the lack of Tiger dealers and service points continue to hurt Tiger sales overall.

Problem with faired bikes like the CB"R" 250 and Ninjette, especially if you park them in amongst all the scooters, is that invariably the fairings will get scratched up. That's why I prefer a naked bike for city use. And besides, fairings on a 250 are mostly for show- it's rare that you go fast enough on a 250 to actually need or benefit from fairings...

Ride On!

Tony

Tony. I don't necessarily agree with the 1st bit of your statement.. but will get back to that..The Tiger is a good bike and very well suited for around town and lower speed touring... I would say though that it is necessary for a comfortable ride at say 130kmh on long distances if you do have some wind protection (a screen of some sort)

As for go faster cbr250/ ninja looks ..yer baby i like it. But then i'm a fairly novice rider. And need more seat time (especially on bends)

Now for the 1st bit.. every body has to start somewhere...and bikes are very limited here in LOS

Also i think Snowflake was pissed off that even though he had asked several times about the price BEFORE going to the dealer they slapped an extra 4,000b on the price..(that would piss me off as well, over $100 extra)

[mbox]

Ok, so the monkeys at honda told me latest this morning- 100k- flat- only for me to pop down there to pick up the bike- then they wanted 4k extra... I told them to stuff that- i was off on a day trip so no time to argue... I will be back in the morning with the mayor... He will set them straight... It was ready for me, paperwork done and sent off... How will they fix this? Will update tomorrow...

You walked over 4000 Baht?! You want the bike or not?!

Looking at the ThaiVisa crowd I'd divide the prospective CBR 250 buyers into two groups.

First are posers and wannabes who want to ride a bike that LOOKS fast, even though they don't actually have the skills to go fast. Many of them can't afford anything bigger or faster than the CBR 250 and even if they did buy bigger / faster bikes they wouldn't know how to ride them. I guess it's pretty obvious I don't have much respect for those guys...

Second group are the older guys (many with limited funds) who are looking for a cheap small easy-to-ride bike that they will mainly use for short trips around town and the occasional day trip and don't want or need anything big or fast. I think for that purpose the CBR 250 will be well suited. (Though a Boxer 250RS would probably be an even better all-purpose city bike...) Personally I've enjoyed amazing after sales service on my Tiger Retro, but I think the lack of Tiger dealers and service points continue to hurt Tiger sales overall.

Problem with faired bikes like the CB"R" 250 and Ninjette, especially if you park them in amongst all the scooters, is that invariably the fairings will get scratched up. That's why I prefer a naked bike for city use. And besides, fairings on a 250 are mostly for show- it's rare that you go fast enough on a 250 to actually need or benefit from fairings...

Ride On!

Tony

Tony. I don't necessarily agree with the 1st bit of your statement.. but will get back to that..The Tiger is a good bike and very well suited for around town and lower speed touring... I would say though that it is necessary for a comfortable ride at say 130kmh on long distances if you do have some wind protection (a screen of some sort)

As for go faster cbr250/ ninja looks ..yer baby i like it. But then i'm a fairly novice rider. And need more seat time (especially on bends)

Now for the 1st bit.. every body has to start somewhere...and bikes are very limited here in LOS

I did a few daytrips on the Tiger Boxer 250RS with 120+ kph at times and over distance ...yes i had the windscreen - doing 750-1000km on those daytrips it was comfy enough. Would it be less comfy to do these long trip swithout windscreen? Yes, i think so - but then again the windscreen cost 940 thb and can be mount /unmount relatively easy plus i think 750-1000km is not what the average 250cc Biker does in a day..

The Tiger Boxer 250RS sure is an option for People interested in a naked Bike.

The CBR250R is selling because it is a Honda , if the same performance came from Lifan labeled bike for even lower price noone would consider buying it IMO.

Thailand lacks naked Bikes specially below the 400cc's and Honda missed that a bit ...many hoped for the VTR 250 but since the 2xCBR's were announced the Boxer250 inquiries and sales have increased a lot.

mbox

[katabeachbum]

Also i think Snowflake was pissed off that even though he had asked several times about the price BEFORE going to the dealer they slapped an extra 4,000b on the price..(that would piss me off as well, over $100 extra)

back in 2003 I ordered my first car here, a Toyota pickup at +800k baht. After a couple of months wait, salesaman wanted another 7-8k baht to cover tax. Which was included in signed sales agreement. Told the salesman it wasnt the 8k baht, but I couldnt trust him.

Pissed off, crossed the street to buy another car at Honda, CRV came off delivery truck and I bought it at 1.250.000 baht.

Bad choise, as I disliked it and sold it 12 months later at 900k, but kept my dignity

Have purchased 6 Toyotas in LOS since, and this salesman looks in the floor each time I m there.

[GarryP]

First are posers and wannabes who want to ride a bike that LOOKS fast, even though they don't actually have the skills to go fast. Many of them can't afford anything bigger or faster than the CBR 250 and even if they did buy bigger / faster bikes they wouldn't know how to ride them. I guess it's pretty obvious I don't have much respect for those guys...

I am dying to see the responses to this paragraph start pouring in. By the way, I class myself as an absolute beginner without the go fast skill set. But then I won't be buying one of these any time soon.

[canuckamuck]

First are posers and wannabes who want to ride a bike that LOOKS fast, even though they don't actually have the skills to go fast. Many of them can't afford anything bigger or faster than the CBR 250 and even if they did buy bigger / faster bikes they wouldn't know how to ride them. I guess it's pretty obvious I don't have much respect for those guys...

I am dying to see the responses to this paragraph start pouring in. By the way, I class myself as an absolute beginner without the go fast skill set. But then I won't be buying one of these any time soon.

Yes of course riding a bike larger than 250CC is beyond the grasp of mere mortals. And not being able to afford something bigger, that is shameful too. Good thing with have elite motorcyclists here to let people know their place.

[GarryP]

First are posers and wannabes who want to ride a bike that LOOKS fast, even though they don't actually have the skills to go fast. Many of them can't afford anything bigger or faster than the CBR 250 and even if they did buy bigger / faster bikes they wouldn't know how to ride them. I guess it's pretty obvious I don't have much respect for those guys...

I am dying to see the responses to this paragraph start pouring in. By the way, I class myself as an absolute beginner without the go fast skill set. But then I won't be buying one of these any time soon.

Yes of course riding a bike larger than 250CC is beyond the grasp of mere mortals. And not being able to afford something bigger, that is shameful too. Good thing with have elite motorcyclists here to let people know their place.

Lovely. Brought a massive smile to my face. I had to bite my tongue (tie my hands together) not to make a snide remark. I'm glad I did because your response fits prefectly.

[CMX]

"First are posers and wannabes who want to ride a bike that LOOKS fast, even though they don't actually have the skills to go fast. Many of them can't afford anything bigger or faster than the CBR 250 and even if they did buy bigger / faster bikes they wouldn't know how to ride them. I guess it's pretty obvious I don't have much respect for those guys..." ~ BigBikeBKK

Tony, I admire every thing you say about bikes and technology of bikes, but this strike me as self-contradictory. As someone noted, everybody has to start somewhere and there are no Honda Rebels to buy here. Of course, the "CBR" 150 might be an even better "starter" bike, but I'm sure you've seen Honda's ads for the U.S. - open invitation to beginners for the 250. It just goes faster.

You also might be confusing readers when you say, "I don't have much respect for those guys" - because you've mentioned (earlier) that "Many of them can't afford anything bigger or faster than the CBR 250 and even if they buy bigger/faster bikes, they wouldn't know how to ride them." Seems to me that buying the smaller bike would be wiser for folks who cannot ride, haven't the experience yet, and not having enough money to buy a big bike should not be a reason for any judgment; who knows their story? Dude could be a saint of some sort.

And if I can remember, I think in my youth I went for looks too, even in bikes. (Was an old Norton good looking? Was to me.) Sure, looks are nonsense in some ways, but the CBR still represents function and a lot of it for the baht, and it is aimed at the beginner or someone who wants performance of a type that matches the bike.

Speed on two wheels is not necessarily the purpose of life or even the exclusive interest, I'm guessing, of Thai Visa. On the other hand, naked bikes make more sense and look better.

[Fishenough]

Ok, a couple of weeks back the Honda showroom in CMX had a couple of brand new Honda Steed's. 400cc, Kind of like a Phantom on steroids. But they only lasted a couple of days and then were gone.

Yah - I saw some big banners advertising them. 159,000+

Not new at all! They are factory refurbished with tens of thousands of kilometers on them...

(And kind of an unpleasant bike I thought when I did a visa run on one)

A knowledgeable Thai big bike enthusiast told me that the Steed's where factory refurbished with squeaky clean books. Guess it's not a rumor.

Would anybody know if that includes; full frame checks, proper suspension refurbishing, rewiring of electrics and complete engine rebuilds? If it's a proper fully rebuilt Steed than the price is acceptable.

Wouldn't it be fair in any market to call both CBR's commuter bikes? I know several gals that learned to ride on 400cc, and 250cc, two stroke MX bikes and my missus first rode on the road on a 883 sportster.

And I try not to think about the fact that, so far, two kids education costs could almost buy me a Multstrada and a S1000RR at Thai prices. Now with one more to go the price of the new CBR's is sweet for a basic commuter, sometime touring, bike.

[Hili]

Ok, so the monkeys at honda told me latest this morning- 100k- flat- only for me to pop down there to pick up the bike- then they wanted 4k extra... I told them to stuff that- i was off on a day trip so no time to argue... I will be back in the morning with the mayor... He will set them straight... It was ready for me, paperwork done and sent off... How will they fix this? Will update tomorrow...

You walked over 4000 Baht?! You want the bike or not?!

Looking at the ThaiVisa crowd I'd divide the prospective CBR 250 buyers into two groups.

First are posers and wannabes who want to ride a bike that LOOKS fast, even though they don't actually have the skills to go fast. Many of them can't afford anything bigger or faster than the CBR 250 and even if they did buy bigger / faster bikes they wouldn't know how to ride them. I guess it's pretty obvious I don't have much respect for those guys...

Second group are the older guys (many (not all) with limited funds) who are looking for a cheap small easy-to-ride bike that they will mainly use for short trips around town and the occasional day trip and don't want or need anything big or fast. I think for that purpose the CBR 250 will be well suited. (Though a Boxer 250RS would probably be an even better all-purpose city bike...) Personally I've enjoyed amazing after sales service on my Tiger Retro, but I think the lack of Tiger dealers and service points continue to hurt Tiger sales overall.

Problem with faired bikes like the CB"R" 250 and Ninjette, especially if you park them in amongst all the scooters, is that invariably the fairings will get scratched up. That's why I prefer a naked bike for city use. And besides, fairings on a 250 are mostly for show- it's rare that you go fast enough on a 250 to actually need or benefit from fairings...

Ride On!

Tony

Tony i think you forgot about the beginners i mean not everybody is born on a motorcycle. I never drove one back home, since here i started with a scooter and liked the feeling, of course cant compare with a real motorcycle. Next step for me was a CBR150 to get used to a clutched bike. Now i want to go faster and i am thinking of a ER6n (which i could afford) but i still worry about my skills for that step. That why i am getting a cbr250 now to get more practice another point is that i think the resale value will be quite good after ~6month which i plan to ride. Then its time for the ER6n finally.

Ninja vs cbr250 i just dont like the look of the ninja and due i am not planing to ride it that long the CBRs resale value is better and easier to find a buyer i think.

[bobbin]

Looking at the ThaiVisa crowd I'd divide the prospective CBR 250 buyers into two groups.

First are posers and wannabes who want to ride a bike that LOOKS fast, even though they don't actually have the skills to go fast. Many of them can't afford anything bigger or faster than the CBR 250 and even if they did buy bigger / faster bikes they wouldn't know how to ride them. I guess it's pretty obvious I don't have much respect for those guys...

Second group are the older guys (many (not all) with limited funds) who are looking for a cheap small easy-to-ride bike that they will mainly use for short trips around town and the occasional day trip and don't want or need anything big or fast.

Tony

Oh... Tony.........

Care to go public with the list?

[snorkelador]

First are posers and wannabes who want to ride a bike that LOOKS fast, even though they don't actually have the skills to go fast. Many of them can't afford anything bigger or faster than the CBR 250 and even if they did buy bigger / faster bikes they wouldn't know how to ride them. I guess it's pretty obvious I don't have much respect for those guys...

I am dying to see the responses to this paragraph start pouring in. By the way, I class myself as an absolute beginner without the go fast skill set. But then I won't be buying one of these any time soon.

Yes of course riding a bike larger than 250CC is beyond the grasp of mere mortals. And not being able to afford something bigger, that is shameful too. Good thing with have elite motorcyclists here to let people know their place.

I also wonder which group those elite motorcyclists would fit in, who bought a fully faired 250 Kwaker before figuring out it was a dog 2-up and moved up to bigger displacement bikes...

[jackcorbett]

Hili---First bike for me was the 350 Honda CBR. After a year or two I traded up to the 450 Honda CBR. I think you're having gotten used to the CBR 150 then moving directly up to the ER6n would be roughly comparable to what I did. The weight and size of the ER6n is not a lot greater than that of the 450 Honda. The 650 is more powerful, sure, but I think moving up to either one would be roughly equal unless you are going crazy. If I was dead set on the ER6n I'd just skip the step up to the 250. on the other hand you might wind up quite happy with the 250 and not want to move up to the ER6n.

[appropriate]

Picked up my one this morning, 110k all in, a very tasty black and silver.

Early review: What bloody great bike. It feels feather light, great torque as soon as the clutch is out, and is up to highway speeds in seconds. It feels smaller than it is, I don't notice the width or weight when going through traffic. The low end torque really is the highlight. The gearbox is silky smooth and perfectly balanced.

The negatives: An insignificant high end powerband. Am used to getting up to 7000rpm and then feeling a kick in the bum as it hits the powerband, but the cbr250 seems smooth up into the redline, there isn't a high end kick that hits, but rather all the power is evenly distributed. This isn't really a negative as it suits me - a highway commuter and tourer. Can go from 4000rpm behind some honda jazz, pull back and you're instantly into the power and gone up past them in an instant.

Have only been able to get up to 110kph or so a few times with the daily traffic and roads, but think I only went into 6th once. Looked down and 100kph was too slow for 6th and had to downshift, so feel that really cruising in 6th will be about 120-130kph at a nice 7-8000rpm. This will suit me.

My back brake is completely nonexistent. Although I'm sure this will be rectified tmro when I tell them to tighten/adjust it.

Black and silver looks great. Feels shorter and lighter than expected. Instant power in the low end. Up to cruising speed very quickly. Is smooth as anything. I haven't felt one bump or vibration yet. Have noticed that the high end is missing a usual power kick.

That's about my summary so far. I'm very happy with it. Am now off for dinner then spending the night breaking it in along the deserted night streets of Bangkok.

Cheers chaps.