Honda Cbr 250R 2011

[appropriate]

why aren't you complaining that the CBR 250 is overpriced compared to the Tiger Boxer 250? Just wonderin...

Just a logical guess, but presumably because the two bikes are so different. Unlike the cbr and ninja. As to be uncomparable. Unlike the similar cbr and ninja. For one, how many CCs less is the Tiger '250'?

I sold my Ninja 250R when the ER6n became available at the end of 2008. I think a lot of other Ninjette owners did the same

Yes, you hear a lot of this need to upgrade with the Kawas, with most (actually all I've heard) complaining that the lack of low-mid end grunt on the ninja was just not up to par, and was the main reason they upgraded.

[dave_boo]

Yes, you are consistent about one thing- being a cheap skate. Back in 2008 when you wrote that post complaining that you couldn't afford the new Ninjette the Ninja 250R was the only 250cc bike available in Thailand. (I don't think the Tiger Boxer 250 was available yet?) Kawasaki could have charged a lot more since they had the 250cc market all to themselves but they released the bike for only 132k Baht back in 2008. Price has gone up a bit in the last two years but it's still a cheap bike. The new Honda is a cheaper 250cc bike. AFAIK the Tiger Boxer 250RS is the cheapest 250cc bike in Thailand.

FWIW- I sold my Ninja 250R when the ER6n became available at the end of 2008. I think a lot of other Ninjette owners did the same and I suspect that's why that thread has gone quiet.

So Bobbin, since you seem to be such a cheap charlie and spend so much time complaining that the Ninja 250 is too expensive for you, why aren't you complaining that the CBR 250 is overpriced compared to the Tiger Boxer 250? Just wonderin...

Ride On!

Tony

Stop trying to give away my title of "Cheap Charlie No. 1"!

[mbox]

why aren't you complaining that the CBR 250 is overpriced compared to the Tiger Boxer 250? Just wonderin...

Just a logical guess, but presumably because the two bikes are so different. Unlike the cbr and ninja. As to be uncomparable. Unlike the similar cbr and ninja. For one, how many CCs less is the Tiger '250'?

I sold my Ninja 250R when the ER6n became available at the end of 2008. I think a lot of other Ninjette owners did the same

Yes, you hear a lot of this need to upgrade with the Kawas, with most (actually all I've heard) complaining that the lack of low-mid end grunt on the ninja was just not up to par, and was the main reason they upgraded.

Should be about 16-17 cc less .....

if we looking at price-comparism how much thb per cc ( which is another useless comparism) but here it goes

Tiger Boxer 250RS actual cc 233 Price: 72000 thb = 309 THB per cc

CBR 250r (non abs) actual cc 249(?) Price : 100000 thb = 401 THB per cc

CBR 250r ( with abs ) actual cc 249(?) Price : 115000 thb = 461 thb per cc

Ninja 250 actual cc 249(?) Price : 147500 thb = 592 THB per cc

On the prices above it is still unclear what is the actual price from the Hondas but i took the lowest .

So do with this nrs whatever you want ....i always find it amusing to read all this tecnical comparism (specially of a bike that noone but 1 or2 forummembers have now ridden) while a great deal depends actually on the Rider . No point to have a faster ,more powerful or better accelerating bike if the one who rides it can't make use of it.

happy trails,

mbox

[wjmark]

Just a few more thoughts.

The engine was indeed really smooth, and unlike the 150, it labours below 3,000 rpm. Have to keep the revs up. But the pull from 4k up was really firm. Decent sound (haven't made her scream yet), and underneath is subtle but nice bass note. A different pipe could make this bike sound quite throbby.

Shifting into first seems to need a firm kick, but the gearbox seems much smoother than the old 150. Neutral is easy enough to find. Neutral and turn signal lights are smaller - too small I think.

Digital speedo is very readable, and the big tach is the only analogue. The digital temp and gas are easy to see, but the odometer, time, etc are pretty small.

Definitely can handle two people - 2nd climbing on didn't shake it, and way more stable than the 150 when riding. Only had a friend on for a few km, so don't really know yet. Plenty of power for it...

And finally; the two fasteners that hold the windscreen on reflect under street lamps, and it seems like two little lights flashing on the dash

hmmm ;>]

[dave_boo]

Should be about 16-17 cc less .....

if we looking at price-comparism how much thb per cc ( which is another useless comparism) but here it goes

Tiger Boxer 250RS actual cc 233 Price: 72000 thb = 309 THB per cc

CBR 250r (non abs) actual cc 249(?) Price : 100000 thb = 401 THB per cc

CBR 250r ( with abs ) actual cc 249(?) Price : 115000 thb = 461 thb per cc

Ninja 250 actual cc 249(?) Price : 147500 thb = 592 THB per cc

On the prices above it is still unclear what is the actual price from the Hondas but i took the lowest .

So do with this nrs whatever you want ....i always find it amusing to read all this tecnical comparism (specially of a bike that noone but 1 or2 forummembers have now ridden) while a great deal depends actually on the Rider . No point to have a faster ,more powerful or better accelerating bike if the one who rides it can't make use of it.

happy trails,

mbox

I like top speed v price better.

I believe I was able to get the Boxer up to 135 km/h without drafting any lorries. My Ninja has hit 154. I'd bet the CBR is similar.

So:

Boxer is 533 THB per km/h.

CBR 250R (non-abs) should be some 649 THB per km/h.

CBR 250R (abs) should be some 746 THB per km/h.

Ninja is 957 THB per km/h.

BOXER WINS AGAIN! Of course only by 18% this time rather than the 23% of your example.

This is fun. Let's try a different metric. How's about using sex appeal. In that scale the Boxer is 61% likely to contribute to the owner getting laid (hey, even though it's a bit ugly at least it's a 'big bike' plus the vibrations on the pillion help hit the chick's g-spot); the Ninja 86% (have to take off points because viewed from the front it looks like a 9 month pregnant woman); the CBR 92% (ugly ass headlamp is made up for by overall better design).

Using that scale here's the analysis.

Boxer is 1180 THB per sex appeal percentage.

CBR 250R (non-abs) 1086 THB per sex appeal percentage

CBR 250R (abs) is 1250 THB per sex appeal percentage.

Ninja is 1715 THB per sex appeal percentage

Unfortunately the Boxer loses this comparison, but apparently not by much!:jap:

Oh BTW, 76% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

[mbox]

so now what else to compare.. maybe the warning horn :-) ?

I know from the turning radius the boxer sure wins....you get the widest for your buck

mbox

[dave_boo]

so now what else to compare.. maybe the warning horn :-) ?

I know from the turning radius the boxer sure wins....you get the widest for your buck

mbox

I think it would also win a support per THB, dealer accessories per THB, etc. quite handily also....

[snowflake]

Why bother arguing about a bike that you have yet to ride... The boxes is one bike- the ninja is another bike- and the cbr is another bike... Many people will buy a cbr just because it is a honda, lots of dealerships out there compared to kawa and tiger... I love big bikes, and i travel alot- before last month i had yet to see a real ninja 250... I i have been looking... So for us that is not in a super central place, this honda will be brilliant... Further, i have always said that one does not buy a bike with your brain, this is emotion- i fell in love with the cbr the day i saw it at the hotel- i have wanted one ever since... Now i get one... Paid already:-) single vs twin- should we really compare them? Should we compare a ducati with a gsxr, or the zx10? No- they are different beasts... Now, where can i get some nice stuff for my soon to come cbr? What tires should i fit on it? What exhaust should i get? Anything else i would like to do with this bike? Suggestions are welcome-

but please, wait with the negative comments until you have ridden it... 100k for a brand new honda 250cc bike is cheap... Be happy with that- as we should be for the people who bought the kawa... It was cheap at the time it came out, and still is- but there are now cheaper options out there, that is just better for the rest of us- now- think if ducati could make a 250, that looks like the 999, and charge us 200k for it... Would you buy it? I would probably:-)

[dave_boo]

Why bother arguing about a bike that you have yet to ride... The boxes is one bike- the ninja is another bike- and the cbr is another bike... Many people will buy a cbr just because it is a honda, lots of dealerships out there compared to kawa and tiger... I love big bikes, and i travel alot- before last month i had yet to see a real ninja 250... I i have been looking... So for us that is not in a super central place, this honda will be brilliant... Further, i have always said that one does not buy a bike with your brain, this is emotion- i fell in love with the cbr the day i saw it at the hotel- i have wanted one ever since... Now i get one... Paid already:-) single vs twin- should we really compare them? Should we compare a ducati with a gsxr, or the zx10? No- they are different beasts... Now, where can i get some nice stuff for my soon to come cbr? What tires should i fit on it? What exhaust should i get? Anything else i would like to do with this bike? Suggestions are welcome-

but please, wait with the negative comments until you have ridden it... 100k for a brand new honda 250cc bike is cheap... Be happy with that- as we should be for the people who bought the kawa... It was cheap at the time it came out, and still is- but there are now cheaper options out there, that is just better for the rest of us- now- think if ducati could make a 250, that looks like the 999, and charge us 200k for it... Would you buy it? I would probably:-)

Only problem with your question (that I bolded in complete disregard to forum rules--sorry mods!) is that those you have listed are not in fact different beasts. They are all in the same class; litre plus superbikes. The Kawasaki Ninja 250 and the CBR 250 are both quarter litre sports bikes. The Boxer is not a sports bike; and that's not a dig just the truth. Just as in WSB the three bikes you have listed run against each other regardless as to their engine configuration, the two wee ones are directly competitive.

At least on those three you have listed there are techniclogical reasons that the Ducati is more expensive; lavish application of carbon fibre, magnesium, vaccum cast engine casings, Ohlins front and rear, etc. Price some of those things up and add them to the other two and see if their prices climb to at least what Ducati is charging. Just about the only thing the Kawasaki is offering over the Ninja (as far as anyone knows right now) is a twin cylinder that makes less torque and revs out further....

Look at it this way; get a local manufacturer to make you up some 999 panels for your CBR 250; find a Pro-Arm from a ratted out NSR and have your baby Ducati. You'll still probably end up spending less than a new Ninja.

[dave_boo]

Just a few more thoughts.

The engine was indeed really smooth, and unlike the 150, it labours below 3,000 rpm. Have to keep the revs up. But the pull from 4k up was really firm. Decent sound (haven't made her scream yet), and underneath is subtle but nice bass note. A different pipe could make this bike sound quite throbby.

Shifting into first seems to need a firm kick, but the gearbox seems much smoother than the old 150. Neutral is easy enough to find. Neutral and turn signal lights are smaller - too small I think.

Digital speedo is very readable, and the big tach is the only analogue. The digital temp and gas are easy to see, but the odometer, time, etc are pretty small.

Definitely can handle two people - 2nd climbing on didn't shake it, and way more stable than the 150 when riding. Only had a friend on for a few km, so don't really know yet. Plenty of power for it...

And finally; the two fasteners that hold the windscreen on reflect under street lamps, and it seems like two little lights flashing on the dash

hmmm ;>]

First question; does it have the positive neutral finder that the Ninja has? I.E. you coming to a stop, shift all the way down to first and then back up like you're going to second and it drops into neutral? I'm sure that with use the gearbox will loosen up for you and you'll be able to just nick it into gear.

How much does it labour? I know that on the Umphang trip and the Loei trip anything below 7000 and I was getting engine 'lugging' and anything below 4000 was just an excuse to burn up the clutch on the Ninja 250.

[taichiplanet]

.

Well, I guess it's me!

I just put 100km on my new CBR250. Picked it up at 7:30pm (with 45lb tire pressure - changed that quickly!). Couldn't get it earlier as they wanted it for display. I'm off to Canada on Monday, so I am going to let them have it back for 2 weeks of display.

What can I say. It is a bit bigger, a bit heavier, and clearly faster than the old 150. Also the seat seems a bit higher (but that might be the shock set on full). I haven't really cranked it open yet - think I'll follow Honda's advice and give it 500km of easy riding. Hope to have that under my belt by tomorrow evening.

Nice to have the bigger tires - corners so easily and confidently. Comfortable too. The riding position is virtually the same as the old 150...

No real surprises to this bike, except it seems to be pretty noisy at idle - lots of mechanical bits doing their thing. What else? There is a tickling kinda buzz to the inside of my legs from some gas tank vibration - no big deal. Don't feel that vibration in the hands.

I don't think it is going to be super fast - but nice torque, and I bet it does a tonne.

Also feel that the speedo is accurate, as opposed to the 10+% optimism of the old 150. Headlights are way better - can actually see at night in the mountains. Someone reported that the kickstand is in a stupid place - indeed it is...

Light, quick, stable, and minimal learning curve coming from the 150 - feels like what I wanted and expected.

Think I'll give it a few thousand kms before I look into any mods...

What was nice was I had never seen one or sat on one, and I came in this evening, started it up and rode away!

Oh - it's red. And no ABS.

Wooo Hooo! Nice one WJ!

From the little test ride i did, the bike did feel easy to ride. I didn't even notice that it was 40-50 kgs heavier than the old 150. It will be interesting to hear your thoughts once it is broken in and you start being more aggressive with the throttle.

So you are gonna leave it with the dealer! Now all the Changmai boys know where to go for a test ride!

Dave; on the test ride arvo in Pattaya i noticed every one was careful to put it in neutral and leave the bike running for the next person, so i thought it might be a problem to find neutral, but it was very easy. BTW i didn't get outta 2nd on my test ride.

[taichiplanet]

Why bother arguing about a bike that you have yet to ride... The boxes is one bike- the ninja is another bike- and the cbr is another bike... Many people will buy a cbr just because it is a honda, lots of dealerships out there compared to kawa and tiger... I love big bikes, and i travel alot- before last month i had yet to see a real ninja 250... I i have been looking... So for us that is not in a super central place, this honda will be brilliant... Further, i have always said that one does not buy a bike with your brain, this is emotion- i fell in love with the cbr the day i saw it at the hotel- i have wanted one ever since... Now i get one... Paid already:-) single vs twin- should we really compare them? Should we compare a ducati with a gsxr, or the zx10? No- they are different beasts... Now, where can i get some nice stuff for my soon to come cbr? What tires should i fit on it? What exhaust should i get? Anything else i would like to do with this bike? Suggestions are welcome-

but please, wait with the negative comments until you have ridden it... 100k for a brand new honda 250cc bike is cheap... Be happy with that- as we should be for the people who bought the kawa... It was cheap at the time it came out, and still is- but there are now cheaper options out there, that is just better for the rest of us- now- think if ducati could make a 250, that looks like the 999, and charge us 200k for it... Would you buy it? I would probably:-)

Tyres can also a bit like bikes/cars as it can come down to personal choice; sacrificing a little grip for longevity. As dave_boo mentioned in an earlier post he fitted Pirelli Dragon Supercora Pro to his Ninja 250, as did a lot of the Ninja guys. Fairly soft tyre that will only get 7-8k kms but good in the wet. Front: 110/70-17 THB 3,800 Rear: 150/60-17: 4,600 Pirelli also have the Rosso and Diablo.

Exhaust; will have to wait and see what turns up and what gives good performance enhancement rather than just being noisy!

[wjmark]

First question; does it have the positive neutral finder that the Ninja has? I.E. you coming to a stop, shift all the way down to first and then back up like you're going to second and it drops into neutral? I'm sure that with use the gearbox will loosen up for you and you'll be able to just nick it into gear.

How much does it labour? I know that on the Umphang trip and the Loei trip anything below 7000 and I was getting engine 'lugging' and anything below 4000 was just an excuse to burn up the clutch on the Ninja 250.

Hey Dave - I bet it does have a positive neutral finder - I noticed exactly what you described - into first and easily into neutral.

About the labouring I can't really answer yet. But even in low gears in the city, there was a definite lugging at 3k. I am about to do a long ride today, so I can report more later...

[dave_boo]

Tyres can also a bit like bikes/cars as it can come down to personal choice; sacrificing a little grip for longevity. As dave_boo mentioned in an earlier post he fitted Pirelli Dragon Supercora Pro to his Ninja 250, as did a lot of the Ninja guys. Fairly soft tyre that will only get 7-8k kms but good in the wet. Front: 110/70-17 THB 3,800 Rear: 150/60-17: 4,600 Pirelli also have the Rosso and Diablo.

Exhaust; will have to wait and see what turns up and what gives good performance enhancement rather than just being noisy!

Yep, stunningly better-ness than the IRC tyres that come stock. We'll see what the wear is like; I have something like 2000 km on the and will post pictures upon my return to LOS.

The grip in the wet is no joke; I slowed down not a bit in rain that was coming sheeting down; probably not the safest thing to do but I wanted to get through it!

[wjmark]

Wooo Hooo! Nice one WJ!

From the little test ride i did, the bike did feel easy to ride. I didn't even notice that it was 40-50 kgs heavier than the old 150....

From the research I did, I believe that the dry weight is not even 35kg more.

So you are gonna leave it with the dealer! Now all the Changmai boys know where to go for a test ride!

You used the wrong smiley.

:( :( :( :(

[bobbin]

Yes, you are consistent about one thing- being a cheap skate.

So Bobbin, since you seem to be such a cheap charlie and spend so much time complaining that the Ninja 250 is too expensive for you, why aren't you complaining that the CBR 250 is overpriced compared to the Tiger Boxer 250? Just wonderin...

Ride On!

Tony

Well, Tony, being a consumer is all about priorities....

Perhaps I decided that that my not unlimited resources were better directed towards my large high-floor sea-view condo and my 5 series BMW.

And rather than serially changing my bikes, I find it more stimulating to serially change my women...

[dave_boo]

Hey Dave - I bet it does have a positive neutral finder - I noticed exactly what you described - into first and easily into neutral.

About the labouring I can't really answer yet. But even in low gears in the city, there was a definite lugging at 3k. I am about to do a long ride today, so I can report more later...

I've got mixed feelings about that positive neutral finder; when I first started riding the Ninja it was a pain since I was so used to just dropping down how many gears to second and then a slight tap into neutral on the CBR 150. The Ninja forced me to concsiously go all the way down and back up. Feel a little bit dumbed down doing it actually.

Make sure you give us a full report.

[wjmark]

if ducati could make a 250, that looks like the 999, and charge us 200k for it... Would you buy it? I would probably:-)

I find it interesting (and scary) that the Ducati Monster 696 has 80hp, and is only a few kilos more than the CBR250 (Ducati dry weight = CBR250 wet weight).

Oh to have half a million baht to throw around...

[wjmark]

I've got mixed feelings about that positive neutral finder; when I first started riding the Ninja it was a pain since I was so used to just dropping down how many gears to second and then a slight tap into neutral on the CBR 150. The Ninja forced me to concsiously go all the way down and back up. Feel a little bit dumbed down doing it actually.

Make sure you give us a full report.

Well, I did notice that I could also get it into neutral from 2nd pretty easily. So I guess it doesn't have one of them positive neutral finders then...

I will certainly notice in about ten minutes.

[bobbin]

Nice to have the bigger tires - corners so easily and confidently. Comfortable too. The riding position is virtually the same as the old 150...

Headlights are way better - can actually see at night in the mountains. Someone reported that the kickstand is in a stupid place - indeed it is..

Mark, nice preliminary report. I'm glad to hear that the headlights actually are better. They needed to be an improvement over the old model 150.

I actually thought the riding position was marginally better than the old/new 150.

It was me that mentioned the kickstand. Looking at both bikes side by side at the test rides, I could see that the 250's kickstand was 2-3 inches (5-7.5 cm) shorter than the 150's. And it is in a weird position, not where you expect it to be. Perhaps a kickstand from the 150 could be swapped over.

[taichiplanet]

Nice to have the bigger tires - corners so easily and confidently. Comfortable too. The riding position is virtually the same as the old 150...

Headlights are way better - can actually see at night in the mountains. Someone reported that the kickstand is in a stupid place - indeed it is..

Mark, nice preliminary report. I'm glad to hear that the headlights actually are better. They needed to be an improvement over the old model 150.

I actually thought the riding position was marginally better than the old/new 150.

It was me that mentioned the kickstand. Looking at both bikes side by side at the test rides, I could see that the 250's kickstand was 2-3 inches (5-7.5 cm) shorter than the 150's. And it is in a weird position, not where you expect it to be. Perhaps a kickstand from the 150 could be swapped over.

I noticed the same thing as you did at the Pattaya test, almost everyone had trouble getting the kickstand down. From my dodgy memory i think the footpeg was in the way and you had to use the tip of your toe to put it down. A lot of people just automatically fished around with it with the side of their foot. I've found it difficult when getting bikes out of parking lots, as the thais tend to park very close, so i get the stand made a little longer so the bike doesn't lean so much and that makes the bike on the right hand side park a little further away. You can see in this photo i took at Big C how much it leans.

[Just1Voice]

Just a note in tires. Last week I stopped at the Kawasaki dealer in here C.M. with my tri-color 150. I wanted to look at some of the tank bags I had seen before. Unfortunatel, they only had 1 in stock and it was small. Coming back out to the bike I got into a conversation with another farang who has the last model year of the old 150, but also has a Ninja 650, and was buying a D-Tracker for some off-roading. Anyway, one of the things we discussed was tires. Told him I was thinking of switching to Michelin or Dunlap, but the told me there's a shop by McCormick Hospital that sells tires, and he switched his factory IRC 44's to IRC 77's, and it made a HUGE difference in riding in the rain, with a much better grip, and was only about 1,200 baht.

Granted, that was for the old 150, and they may not have for the new 150 or 250, but always good to look at options.

And along the lines of the kick stand, can anyone explain to me why all the "scooters" have the center stand that you can set the bike up on for cleaning, maintenance, etc, but none of the bigger bikes do? Just wondering.

P.S. Yeah, I thought about waiting for the 250, but in all honesty, I'm having a blast on the new 150 which, for me, is WAYYYY better than the old one.

:jap:

[snowflake]

Why bother arguing about a bike that you have yet to ride... The boxes is one bike- the ninja is another bike- and the cbr is another bike... Many people will buy a cbr just because it is a honda, lots of dealerships out there compared to kawa and tiger... I love big bikes, and i travel alot- before last month i had yet to see a real ninja 250... I i have been looking... So for us that is not in a super central place, this honda will be brilliant... Further, i have always said that one does not buy a bike with your brain, this is emotion- i fell in love with the cbr the day i saw it at the hotel- i have wanted one ever since... Now i get one... Paid already:-) single vs twin- should we really compare them? Should we compare a ducati with a gsxr, or the zx10? No- they are different beasts... Now, where can i get some nice stuff for my soon to come cbr? What tires should i fit on it? What exhaust should i get? Anything else i would like to do with this bike? Suggestions are welcome-

but please, wait with the negative comments until you have ridden it... 100k for a brand new honda 250cc bike is cheap... Be happy with that- as we should be for the people who bought the kawa... It was cheap at the time it came out, and still is- but there are now cheaper options out there, that is just better for the rest of us- now- think if ducati could make a 250, that looks like the 999, and charge us 200k for it... Would you buy it? I would probably:-)

[taichiplanet]

Snowflake, that is the exact same post you put up on post #968; had a rough night mate!

[snowflake]

Not to brag sir- but two girls and no vodka... Always:-) i need my bike...

[appropriate]

WJMark, after your day of riding, did you notice anything about the rear brakes? I've heard people on the 150 got them adjusted for being too soft, and reading the Thai forums one guy way saying that they felt a bit weak on the 250 too.

Mine should be delivered early next week, so thinking of getting them to adjust them before I drive it away, if it's needed (and maybe lower the front a few cm too.)

[taichiplanet]

Couple of reviews out of the USA

http://www.motorcycle.com/manufacturer/honda/2011-honda-cbr250r-90227.html

http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2010/12/2011-honda-cbr250r-first-ride-part-i/

one mentions hitting 90 miles per hour, and would probably do low 90s (around 150 kph) with a bit of effort. He also mentions that the bike is obviously choked for US emissions and could be freed up!

[bobbin]

Good links taichiplanet! Thanks for the research.

Well, there you have it....the first real review of all characteristics.

Acknowledged as one of the CBR family, not a red-headed step-child. Point scored on the posters who said it's a bastard.

Better real-world power, down where most riders need it.

As taichiplanet noted, the engine currently somewhat choked and open to further modding.

Ninja killer? Nope.

Solid competition? Yes.

That's all I needed to hear. Hope it's enough to quiet some of the party-poopers here as well.

[appropriate]

As taichiplanet noted, the engine currently somewhat choked and open to further modding.

Actually they said it was choked up due to the American restrictions. Do these differ from the Thai restrictions?

The second part of the quote is easily remedied, with as you say, a bit of modding with the pipe.

It’s obviously choked down to satisfy Uncle Sam, and his syndicate bosses at the EPA. The conservative ECU settings the Feds extorted from Honda, combined with the catalytic converter and narrow single exhaust pipe, sap power.

[CMX]

I was not surprised that Honda's touted "Pro-link" rear suspension came in for discussion. Weight may have figured into its addition, but it cannot be first class. Seems to me that the articles suggest competition, but hint at Honda in second place, if close.

Given the number of dealers that are asking up to 115K for non-ABS models, jury's out so far as I can now tell.

I suspect the Bira competition, if volunteers can carry it off, will find the same thing - Ninjette somewhat to slightly quicker. Discussion then will revolve around cost/value. ABS, for many of us, will be the deal-maker.

Still, even then things are not clear. If the Ninja 250R is slightly better in most maneuvers, and if the Honda "CBR" 250 outsells it 10-1, which is really "better" A. From the point of view of the corporations, or B. from ours? To confuse matters, it may be that the little Ninja, with its factory fixed price, may make more profit per unit. Great fun all around!