Honda Cbr 250R 2011

[visions]

One thing I dont completely understand, is the lower (reported) HP per cc of the 250 compared to the 150 engines? The 150 reportedly at 19.whatever HP at 150cc and the 250 at 26hp at 250cc. With the capacity increasing by over 50% (Im sure someone will correct this figure) and a later more efficient design engine one would thinlk the power would increase roughly proportionatly?? ( Again Im sure someone will set me straight on this.)

After all... the CBR 1000 puts out something like 45hp per 250cc and has virtually identical bore and stroke and valve sizing. But does have considerably higher compression. And revs something like 50% higher. Im no engine mechamic so hopefully someone more clued than myself, can enlighten me why the apparent low HP of the new 250??

Seems its the only minus point about the bike so far.

[canuckamuck]

ผมทำงานอิรัก!

So in actuality it was 0330...night shifts suck.

Lol, get back to work

[dave_boo]

One thing I dont completely understand, is the lower (reported) HP per cc of the 250 compared to the 150 engines? The 150 reportedly at 19.whatever HP at 150cc and the 250 at 26hp at 250cc. With the capacity increasing by over 50% (Im sure someone will correct this figure) and a later more efficient design engine one would thinlk the power would increase roughly proportionatly?? ( Again Im sure someone will set me straight on this.)

After all... the CBR 1000 puts out something like 45hp per 250cc and has virtually identical bore and stroke and valve sizing. But does have considerably higher compression. And revs something like 50% higher. Im no engine mechamic so hopefully someone more clued than myself, can enlighten me why the apparent low HP of the new 250??

Seems its the only minus point about the bike so far.

It's all about what it's tuned for. The CBR250R was tuned for really nice low and mid-range. Ultimate RPM is not a concern. Add in everything that the 1000 has over it and it's not a big surprise.

There's a good bet that the engine is going to be pretty much bullet proof also. I would think that compared to the 150 there's quite a bit of fricitional loss due to larger piston while at the same time less efficiency in regards to heat transfer. Bigger piston and valve gear are going to have an effect....etc.

**edit**

I tried to resist, but actually the increase is 66%....so solly.

Edited December 23, 2010 by dave_boo

[wjmark]

Hili---First bike for me was the 350 Honda CBR. After a year or two I traded up to the 450 Honda CBR. I think you're having gotten used to the CBR 150 then moving directly up to the ER6n would be roughly comparable to what I did.

You had a 350 CBR ?? And then traded it up to a 450 CBR ??

Any link to these bikes ??

Cos I have owned a 400 CBR (NC29 Gull arm) and seen the early pocket screamer of the CBR250 (MC22), had a VFR400 (NC30) to use for a while.. All great baby sporters for mid size guys IMO.

Yet I have never heard of either of the bikes you claim to have owned.

If I know the bikes he's talking about, and he's old enough to have had them newish, than perhaps it's the fog of time creeping in?

Honda CB350(68-73)

Honda CB450(65-74)

And aren't they just fuc_kin gorgeous!

[dave_boo]

And aren't they just fuc_kin gorgeous!

Ummmh...seeings as how they're older than I am I don't see their visual appeal...however they may be more comfortable than current thread topic.

[snowflake]

IT IS MINE!!!!

Finished at Honda now, the bike is mine... Their boss was there to explain the price hike and was willing to give back all the deposit and some toys if I did not want the bike...

I gave him the money, the bike is mine... HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHA

Ps. It did 120 down the road in traffic in what I think was 3rd gear... It is not that slow!!!

Obviously coming from a PCX lately it is really quick...

Now, If there was only a way I would not have to work today!!! Ohhh. I have a 4 hour break now, guess what I will do for some of that time???

[JUDAS]

IT IS MINE!!!!

Finished at Honda now, the bike is mine... Their boss was there to explain the price hike and was willing to give back all the deposit and some toys if I did not want the bike...

I gave him the money, the bike is mine... HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHA

Ps. It did 120 down the road in traffic in what I think was 3rd gear... It is not that slow!!!

Obviously coming from a PCX lately it is really quick...

Now, If there was only a way I would not have to work today!!! Ohhh. I have a 4 hour break now, guess what I will do for some of that time???

I can see the smile on your face from here but, try not to break it.

[LivinLOS]

Hili---First bike for me was the 350 Honda CBR. After a year or two I traded up to the 450 Honda CBR. I think you're having gotten used to the CBR 150 then moving directly up to the ER6n would be roughly comparable to what I did.

You had a 350 CBR ?? And then traded it up to a 450 CBR ??

Any link to these bikes ??

Cos I have owned a 400 CBR (NC29 Gull arm) and seen the early pocket screamer of the CBR250 (MC22), had a VFR400 (NC30) to use for a while.. All great baby sporters for mid size guys IMO.

Yet I have never heard of either of the bikes you claim to have owned.

If I know the bikes he's talking about, and he's old enough to have had them newish, than perhaps it's the fog of time creeping in?

Honda CB350(68-73)

Honda CB450(65-74)

Ahh well he might mean the old plodder CB naked bike brand.. But totally different brand and DNA.. Long way from the CBR brand.. Theres even the CB250 nighthawk now.

I guess in part thats the problem I have with this machine being branded a CBR.. Consider the brand lineage.. When has 'a relaxed seating position, an acceptable engine' been the design brief or spec on a true CBR ?? Compare it to the MC22, 4 pot 45hp 19k redline screamer.. Now that was a Baby Blade !! Even the NC29 400's and other small bore blades were in their own way a CBR. But a 22hp (wheel) single ?? with reviews of 'adequate torque' and the like ??

Its less a comment about the bike, which may be perfectly fine for its purpose.. But really is that CBR DNA ?? To me they should have gone with a VFR moniker, a perfectly applicable combo sports touring brand they already have. Seems a perfect fit ?? if this was a VFR250 people that know an understand Hondas long term branding would see and understand it to be the torque'y, upright, combo sports tourer brand. But no they want to pretend its a sportbike, sully the CBR brand image, make an inferior sporter to the Ninja out there (in sport potential) all for the sake of a go faster brand image. Hondas too good for that, they should stick to their brands and not sully one or other for marketing hype.

[thaicbr]

Now some people have got their CBR250's... let me remind them that IF they change the tyres for grippier tyres i will buy a set of the IRC's from you.... Thanks.,,,,,,if interested PM me..

Allan

[Kernow86]

IT IS MINE!!!!

Finished at Honda now, the bike is mine... Their boss was there to explain the price hike and was willing to give back all the deposit and some toys if I did not want the bike...

I gave him the money, the bike is mine... HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHA

Ps. It did 120 down the road in traffic in what I think was 3rd gear... It is not that slow!!!

Obviously coming from a PCX lately it is really quick...

Now, If there was only a way I would not have to work today!!! Ohhh. I have a 4 hour break now, guess what I will do for some of that time???

I can see the smile on your face from here but, try not to break it.

I'm GREEN! How does it compare to 150 snowflake?

Various threads are mentioning how it might not be that much faster than a 150? What can you tell us?

How does everyone feel about not being able to 'try before you buy'? It seems a bit 'ting tong' to buy something without testing it out!

[mbox]

Now some people have got their CBR250's... let me remind them that IF they change the tyres for grippier tyres i will buy a set of the IRC's from you.... Thanks.,,,,,,if interested PM me..

Allan

I know your Plan ...you are going to sell them IRC's on to Dave , right?

mbox

[BigBikeBKK]

Gents,

I knew the second I hit "Add reply" that I'd cause a bit of controversy with those comments, but I also think that some of you are taking my comments out of context.

I began with the caveat: "Looking at the ThaiVisa crowd I'd divide the prospective CBR 250 buyers into two groups."

The ThaiVisa crowd is NOT the demographic that these new CBRs are aimed at. (Well, maybe the first group (posers), but certainly not the second).

Sales of these CBRs to ThaiVisa members will perhaps add up to 1/10th or 1% of sales country-wide. The majority of the CBR buyers in Thailand will be young Thai males under 30. And while you think I'm dissing the bike I'm not- I expect it to sell very very well.

I just take exception with some of the keyboard warriors who think this new CBR 250 is the best thing since sliced bread. Compared to the original 45 Hp, 4-pot, 19000 RPM CBR 250 RR screamer:

Putting a CBR sticker on this new ~20Hp thumper is a bit silly IMO. There was a hope and expectation among bike enthusiasts that Honda would raise the bar with their new CBR 250, or at least try to make something as exciting as the original CBR 250RR. The only thing I find exciting about the new CBR is the option of ABS on a 250cc bike. Other than that it's a dud compared to the original CBR 250RR.

But as with Kawasaki and their unfortunate misuse of the "Ninja" logo on EX model bikes which really ought to be reserved for ZX model bikes, I guess Honda has also let marketing take precedence over accuracy and is willing to spread the CBR name around rather liberally.

But let's forget Thailand for a sec with it's limited choice of small bikes and ridiculous mark-ups on large cc imports. In the rest of the world these new CBRs are aimed squarely at young new riders and girls. The little Ninjette 250 has been a perennial best seller for Kawasaki because it's CHEAP and very easy to ride. It's a favorite learners bike in many countries. MSRP for the CBR 250 in the US is IDENTICAL to the Ninja 250R: $3999

So, price being EQUAL, how to differentiate the two?

IMO the CBR 250 will be an even easier bike for beginners than the Ninja 250R thanks to the torque of it's single cylinder engine. As I've said a number of times, offering ABS on a 250cc bike is REVOLUTIONARY and Honda is to be congratulated and commended to bringing this life saving technology to small bikes at an affordable price.

But what makes it a good beginners bike may also be a handicap. New riders may soon outgrow the little CBR thumper and crave a bike with more power. Also, like the Ninjette, but even more, so the new CBR 250 will be woefully underpowered for riding two up. I did a bit of touring two up with my old Ninjette and with a 45Kg passenger the bike was a dog. Adding (or cutting) weight from small displacement motorcycles makes a BIG difference in power to weight ratios.

At the end of the day it does not matter one bit what you ride as long as you are having FUN!

If a Honda Phantom or Kawasaki Boss puts a smile on your face then more power to you!

The new CBR 250 looks great, is very cheap and no doubt will be of typical excellent Honda build quality.

Heartfelt congratulations to those of you who have bought or are buying one!

Happy Trails!

Tony

I'm gad you touched upon the branding; however it's odd that what seems to be your major only criticsm of the CBR is its badging. I don't remember you making a stink about the Ninja, which was launched the same year as the ZX-2R, and is also similarily not up to snuff in regards to performance as the predecesor.

I don't doubt that the sales of the CBR 250R to expats will be less than 1% of total sales; however what % of sales of the Ninja went to expats? When they first came out there were what, a dozen+ owners here on Thaivisa? Now it seems there are 3 or so owners here on TV. You've shown pictures of group rides where there were more than 20 Ninjettes, all apparently owned by Thais; while you can't directly extrapolate the numbers meaningfully, it would seem that Kawasaki, even though they depended on expat sales, wouldn't seem to be doing too good of a job selling them to the locals. I'm just saying....

I also take exception at your attempt to conflate the Ninja's sales with a superior class of riders. In fact a full 62% of sales (in the States) are first time buyers (with 42% of total sales going to people who have ridden less than 6 months--so ~20% of sales are to people who have 6+ months riding someone else's bike) and a full 33% are women (compared to the industry average of 10-15% of sales going to women). There's going to be some overlap, but that means that the sales that you so sneeringly attributed to Honda's supposed market are in actuality some 2/3rds of the Ninja's bread and butter. Contrast that to what we can assume are going to be Honda's core sales in Thailand because posters on ThaiVisa in fact mostly live in LOS and that's what's important; 18-29 males who have been riding bikes since they were old enough to get their legs down to the switchgear.

Hiya Dave!

What is a ZX-2R???

I think you have perhaps misread what I wrote. I criticized both Kawasaki AND Honda for what I perceive to be their misuse of the "Ninja" and "CBR" logos:

"But as with Kawasaki and their unfortunate misuse of the "Ninja" logo on EX model bikes which really ought to be reserved for ZX model bikes, I guess Honda has also let marketing take precedence over accuracy and is willing to spread the CBR name around rather liberally."

But as others have rightly stated, it's just a name. Was I not going to buy a Kawasaki ER6f (EX650) because Kawasaki threw a Ninja sticker on it? Of course not.

I have no idea how many expats bought the Ninja 250R but back in 2008 it was the only 100% legal 250cc bike available in Thailand. At the time it was a BIG DEAL as it was the first 100% legal dealer supported 250cc motorcycle available in Thailand.

I don't understand your comment about Kawasaki depending on expat sales... If Kawasaki wanted to market to expats in Thailand they would have English speaking sales staff (which they don't), they would advertise in English language media (which they don't) and they would provide English language owners manuals with their bikes (which they don't).

Since the introduction of the Ninjette to Thailand in 2008 we now have a lot more choices and most of the farang Ninjette owners I've known sold their Ninjettes and upgraded to ER6n's, Ninja 650's and Versys.

I'm not sure where I attempted to "conflate the Ninja's sales with a superior class of riders."?

The Ninja 250R and the new Hond CBR 250 are aimed at the same demographic. New riders and small riders / girls. Kawasaki has had a virtual monopoly on this market for years with their Ninja 250R. Seems now Honda would like a piece of that pie, and to that end, as I already stated earlier, I think the new Honda CBR 250 will be an even easier bike for new riders than the Ninja 250R.

Here in Thailand the CBR 250 is cheaper than the Kawasaki Ninja 250R and new riders will probably not notice or care about the extra power of the Ninja, but they will enjoy and benefit from the extra torque of the CBR 250.

Where the Ninjette has a distinct and measurable advantage is horsepower. The 250cc race scene is big and growing fast here in Thailand. For aspiring 250cc track riders and racers this is one area where unfortunately the CBR 250 falls short.

So Dave, I know you are a huge Honda fan - will you be selling your Ninjette to Allan and buying the new CBR? ABS or no?

Happy Trails!

Tony

[thaicbr]

Now some people have got their CBR250's... let me remind them that IF they change the tyres for grippier tyres i will buy a set of the IRC's from you.... Thanks.,,,,,,if interested PM me..

Allan

I know your Plan ...you are going to sell them IRC's on to Dave , right?

mbox

LOL ....... No.. new hoops for the VX.. hopefully replacement front end going on it the next few weeks

[mbox]

Now some people have got their CBR250's... let me remind them that IF they change the tyres for grippier tyres i will buy a set of the IRC's from you.... Thanks.,,,,,,if interested PM me..

Allan

I know your Plan ...you are going to sell them IRC's on to Dave , right?

mbox

LOL ....... No.. new hoops for the VX.. hopefully replacement front end going on it the next few weeks

Ok thats great news to get her in order again...what you doing than with the old VX tires....Dave?:whistling:

[metisdead]

An offensive post and reply to it have been removed from view.

[katabeachbum]

No doubt Honda is monitoring the LOS sales of CBR250 to see if their big bikes are doable in LOS

[thaicbr]

No doubt Honda is monitoring the LOS sales of CBR250 to see if their big bikes are doable in LOS

I would also hope that they are monitoring APe Honda.. the master's of cock up's.......

[katabeachbum]

No doubt Honda is monitoring the LOS sales of CBR250 to see if their big bikes are doable in LOS

I would also hope that they are monitoring APe Honda.. the master's of cock up's.......

Well, with +70% of the 100-150cc LOS market, they will be allowed some slack.

Suzuki however just kicked out their Thai partner, and so far has got Hayate 125cc injection on sale again. The last Hayates sold in the Thai distribution where 2 years old

[snowflake]

Ok, just back from a 50km run...

Starting off let me say that I really like this bike- smooth gears, comfortable seat (for what it is) and fast in town...

I just happen to like speed as someone probably knows...

I was mistake that it was 120 in 3rd, more like top of 4th... (ok, I have had the bike for 1 hour now...)

In traffic it will be hard to find the liter bike that can go faster (well that is true with my PCX as well)...

But once you come to the highway, it is limited fun...

Started off at the lights and shot towards a place called Thasala- nice new highway with lots of curves at special sections... Now remember that I am a fat bastard and I am 185 high... I also had as the last big bike a zx12r, so everything will be slow compared to that...

1st-4th gear went quick and smooth, 5th gear was negotiated nicely and then I came to 130 :-(

WOW i THOUGHT!!! Is that it? Is that all, but then my left toe found the 6th gear and the bike jumped up to 140 (not really a big problem for it)... It stopped there as well... I dont think it is the bike that is that slow... 140 was about 8750rpm, so what did I do? I tucked behind the joke of a windscreen to limit the wind resistance--- then the bike went, not slow but not fast up to 151... so my confirmed top speed is 151, behind the screen...

I am sure that the bike will go a lot faster if the person on it weighs less than me (and that is not difficult)...

Tires does not scream "replace me" to you, but they are not the best in the world- far from it... The rear brake will be fixed tomorrow. Shocks has been ordered as the exhaust pipe (trouble finding the ones I like so it might take some time)...

I reckon that I might keep this bike for 7-9 months, and it will do its job beautifully, apart from the long hauls 500km upwards - think I will still stick to the pick up for that!

Yes I bought the bike without testing it- but I recon it was so cheap that could not really go wrong with it, could I?

Dissapointed about the top speed? Yes, but then again, I would only reach that every sunday when I am on my way to class...

It the curves the bikes handles well, better tires and shocks might improve that severly, but what do one expect for 100K??? They have to cut corners-

I am also at the age in my life now that I know it is silly to go through traffic at 150kmph, fun, but silly...

Would I buy it now that I have been on it for a long time? YES, would I recommend it to myself 4 years ago, when speed was all that mattered? NO..

Have I fallen in love with the bike? YES...

Do people like it? YES (one of my students complained that it was too small (14 years and he rides a BMW K1200S I think it is... (But not fast!)

Even the police had to look twice at the bike, boy I had fun on it now...

Judas, I am sure my mum can see my smile now... and she is on the other side of the planet...

Warning - - - It is seriously addictive to ride fast, even if that means 50kph in traffic, ride safely, die old!

[BigBikeBKK]

The rear brake will be fixed tomorrow.

Congrats on the new bike- sounds like you are having FUN!

What's up with the rear brake? A few people now have reported problems with it.

It's a disc brake right? Should be pretty straightforward and maintenance-free.

Problem with dealer set up? I imagine it shouldn't be hard to fix.

Keep up posted.

Happy Riding!

T

[dave_boo]

Now some people have got their CBR250's... let me remind them that IF they change the tyres for grippier tyres i will buy a set of the IRC's from you.... Thanks.,,,,,,if interested PM me..

Allan

I know your Plan ...you are going to sell them IRC's on to Dave , right?

mbox

Perhaps I'll need them after my Supercorsas wear out....:jap:

[mbox]

Now some people have got their CBR250's... let me remind them that IF they change the tyres for grippier tyres i will buy a set of the IRC's from you.... Thanks.,,,,,,if interested PM me..

Allan

I know your Plan ...you are going to sell them IRC's on to Dave , right?

mbox

Perhaps I'll need them after my Supercorsas wear out....:jap:

And they are going to be cheaper too

[Just1Voice]

Rear brakes seem to be an issue on both the 150 and 250. After 3 days I took my 150 in and had them adjusted for a better bite. They still aren't as "tight" as the old 150, which you could easily lock up, but definitely better than they were originally.

Also, there's a whole "truckload" of accessories that Honda is offering for both bikes, according to the brochures, but so far I haven't found ANY of them available at any of the dealers.

[stander]

Hi snowflake

I like yourself am a bit of a fatty and I as wondering about your statement:-

"Shocks has been ordered as the exhaust pipe (trouble finding the ones I like so it might take some time)... "

Could you explain a bit more as to why you are replacing the shocks and exhaust pipe?

[snowflake]

The exhaust will be changed because I do not like the looks or sound from it... My hope is that a nice carbon exhaust or a motogp style one will make the bike look better and most of all sound better!!! The sound is very important for me (I myself like the v-twin sound)!

The shocks will be changed because I had such a great success with my PCX, totally different bike to ride and enjoy...

I have told my mech. that I want some thing better and he will find it for me!!! Just going to take time...

There is really nothing wrong with the bike, I really like it, but as people have said... When honda launch a bike that is "comparable" with the Ninja for about 50K less, they have to cut costs somewhere, ohlins would be nice as standard, but to expensive... I will try to get some and see if it makes the bike better... Thats all...

Hope that will put you to ease...

[dave_boo]

I'm gad you touched upon the branding; however it's odd that what seems to be your major only criticsm of the CBR is its badging. I don't remember you making a stink about the Ninja, which was launched the same year as the ZX-2R, and is also similarily not up to snuff in regards to performance as the predecesor.

I don't doubt that the sales of the CBR 250R to expats will be less than 1% of total sales; however what % of sales of the Ninja went to expats? When they first came out there were what, a dozen+ owners here on Thaivisa? Now it seems there are 3 or so owners here on TV. You've shown pictures of group rides where there were more than 20 Ninjettes, all apparently owned by Thais; while you can't directly extrapolate the numbers meaningfully, it would seem that Kawasaki, even though they depended on expat sales, wouldn't seem to be doing too good of a job selling them to the locals. I'm just saying....

I also take exception at your attempt to conflate the Ninja's sales with a superior class of riders. In fact a full 62% of sales (in the States) are first time buyers (with 42% of total sales going to people who have ridden less than 6 months--so ~20% of sales are to people who have 6+ months riding someone else's bike) and a full 33% are women (compared to the industry average of 10-15% of sales going to women). There's going to be some overlap, but that means that the sales that you so sneeringly attributed to Honda's supposed market are in actuality some 2/3rds of the Ninja's bread and butter. Contrast that to what we can assume are going to be Honda's core sales in Thailand because posters on ThaiVisa in fact mostly live in LOS and that's what's important; 18-29 males who have been riding bikes since they were old enough to get their legs down to the switchgear.

Hiya Dave!

What is a ZX-2R???

I think you have perhaps misread what I wrote. I criticized both Kawasaki AND Honda for what I perceive to be their misuse of the "Ninja" and "CBR" logos:

"But as with Kawasaki and their unfortunate misuse of the "Ninja" logo on EX model bikes which really ought to be reserved for ZX model bikes, I guess Honda has also let marketing take precedence over accuracy and is willing to spread the CBR name around rather liberally."

But as others have rightly stated, it's just a name. Was I not going to buy a Kawasaki ER6f (EX650) because Kawasaki threw a Ninja sticker on it? Of course not.

I have no idea how many expats bought the Ninja 250R but back in 2008 it was the only 100% legal 250cc bike available in Thailand. At the time it was a BIG DEAL as it was the first 100% legal dealer supported 250cc motorcycle available in Thailand.

I don't understand your comment about Kawasaki depending on expat sales... If Kawasaki wanted to market to expats in Thailand they would have English speaking sales staff (which they don't), they would advertise in English language media (which they don't) and they would provide English language owners manuals with their bikes (which they don't).

Since the introduction of the Ninjette to Thailand in 2008 we now have a lot more choices and most of the farang Ninjette owners I've known sold their Ninjettes and upgraded to ER6n's, Ninja 650's and Versys.

I'm not sure where I attempted to "conflate the Ninja's sales with a superior class of riders."?

The Ninja 250R and the new Hond CBR 250 are aimed at the same demographic. New riders and small riders / girls. Kawasaki has had a virtual monopoly on this market for years with their Ninja 250R. Seems now Honda would like a piece of that pie, and to that end, as I already stated earlier, I think the new Honda CBR 250 will be an even easier bike for new riders than the Ninja 250R.

Here in Thailand the CBR 250 is cheaper than the Kawasaki Ninja 250R and new riders will probably not notice or care about the extra power of the Ninja, but they will enjoy and benefit from the extra torque of the CBR 250.

Where the Ninjette has a distinct and measurable advantage is horsepower. The 250cc race scene is big and growing fast here in Thailand. For aspiring 250cc track riders and racers this is one area where unfortunately the CBR 250 falls short.

So Dave, I know you are a huge Honda fan - will you be selling your Ninjette to Allan and buying the new CBR? ABS or no?

Happy Trails!

Tony

Tony!

The ZX-2R was the Kawasaki sports bike that was similar to the CBR 250R you posted the specs of. Same 4 cylinder 40 BHP, etc.

I admitted that you finally stated that Kawasaki Ninja 250 (and being honest the 500 and 650) don't deserve the NInja badge. But then again I shit my pants when I saw a "Suzuki Katana" at the local amphur....

But getting back on track. It's quite revealing to reminicise about the verbal sparring sessions we've had over the years in regards to my beloved brand versus the Ninja 250. I remember pointing out way back when that the Ninja was overpriced for what it gave you; you replied that it was a proper sports bike and the cheapest 'big bike' in LOS. We battled back and forth for quite a while IIRC. Never once do I recall you saying a single bad word about the Ninjette, and am also fairly certain that you didn't have all the qualifiers you're putting on it now. I remember phrases such as "value" and the sort being liberally tossed around. Now that Honda has released a bike that beats it at value, performs similarly, if not better, where does that leave you? Quibbling over naming....

I worded my comment about expat purchasers of the Ninja bike poorly. It was overly vague. Here's what would have been better. Nobody has released any information AFAIK as to the number of Ninjas sold. Anecdotally, from what I've observed, it seems that a larger portion of those who purchased the bikes were expats vis a vis what everyone is estimating to be the portion of expats purchasing the new CBR will be. As such, Kawasaki depended more on the expat segment than Honda will. I'd also like to suggest that Kawasaki featuring English advertising is a bit of a strawman; I'd be willing to bet that the majority of expats that are/were considering that bike have a computer and are not that Thai-ified (meaning that they aren't that oblivious to their surroundings).

I may have misunderstood your sentence:

these new CBRs are aimed squarely at young new riders and girls. The little Ninjette 250 has been a perennial best seller for Kawasaki because it's CHEAP and very easy to ride.

Usually when I am comparing two items I like to state the similarities and the differences. While you then stated that the Ninja is a learner's bike, your next paragraph indicated, to me any ways, that the only similarities was the price. The next paragraph reinforced my (apparent?) misunderstanding when it seems you were saying that the Ninja was for more advanced riders than the CBR.

IMO the CBR 250 will be an even easier bike for beginners than the Ninja 250R

As far as selling my Ninja to Allan; he's even tighter than I am and I don't think the wife would appreciate (nor even understand) the depreciation that the Ninja would be hit with.....plus there's no tri-colour yet. Also, how do we know that Honda won't move production of bigger bikes to LOS, especially since they're closing their N.A. plant(s?)......I've had a chubby for the Transalp for a while now...

[loserlazer]

Hili---First bike for me was the 350 Honda CBR. After a year or two I traded up to the 450 Honda CBR. I think you're having gotten used to the CBR 150 then moving directly up to the ER6n would be roughly comparable to what I did.

You had a 350 CBR ?? And then traded it up to a 450 CBR ??

Any link to these bikes ??

Cos I have owned a 400 CBR (NC29 Gull arm) and seen the early pocket screamer of the CBR250 (MC22), had a VFR400 (NC30) to use for a while.. All great baby sporters for mid size guys IMO.

Yet I have never heard of either of the bikes you claim to have owned.

If I know the bikes he's talking about, and he's old enough to have had them newish, than perhaps it's the fog of time creeping in?

Honda CB350(68-73)

Honda CB450(65-74)

Ahh well he might mean the old plodder CB naked bike brand.. But totally different brand and DNA.. Long way from the CBR brand.. Theres even the CB250 nighthawk now.

I guess in part thats the problem I have with this machine being branded a CBR.. Consider the brand lineage.. When has 'a relaxed seating position, an acceptable engine' been the design brief or spec on a true CBR ?? Compare it to the MC22, 4 pot 45hp 19k redline screamer.. Now that was a Baby Blade !! Even the NC29 400's and other small bore blades were in their own way a CBR. But a 22hp (wheel) single ?? with reviews of 'adequate torque' and the like ??

Its less a comment about the bike, which may be perfectly fine for its purpose.. But really is that CBR DNA ?? To me they should have gone with a VFR moniker, a perfectly applicable combo sports touring brand they already have. Seems a perfect fit ?? if this was a VFR250 people that know an understand Hondas long term branding would see and understand it to be the torque'y, upright, combo sports tourer brand. But no they want to pretend its a sportbike, sully the CBR brand image, make an inferior sporter to the Ninja out there (in sport potential) all for the sake of a go faster brand image. Hondas too good for that, they should stick to their brands and not sully one or other for marketing hype.

Totally agree with you.

The bike has to be branded/segmented as a VFR instead of CBR as it fits the styling and sport touring purposes of VFR, but for marketing purposes, recognition of CBR much more strong than VFR and i can understand in a marketing perspective why Honda named it this way as it is easy to sell and i am sure buyers will prefer to ride a bike named as CBR especially the newbies.

Congratulations for the ones acquired their bikes but drive safe and sound with a smile without breaking the bike so we can get your ideas.

[katabeachbum]

Rear brakes seem to be an issue on both the 150 and 250. After 3 days I took my 150 in and had them adjusted for a better bite. They still aren't as "tight" as the old 150, which you could easily lock up, but definitely better than they were originally.

Also, there's a whole "truckload" of accessories that Honda is offering for both bikes, according to the brochures, but so far I haven't found ANY of them available at any of the dealers.

Discs should be degreased by dealer on delivery, but to lazy.

Some long, hard(but not locked), hot brakings from +100kmh, or a clean with blue alcohol available in paharmacys, makes wonder

Front disc cleans itself rapidly as its the one used most and not often hard enough to lock, but stepping on the rear doesnt work much before its been degreased

[Kernow86]

Sounds like your having a great time!

Enjoy buddy!

[CMX]

Just out of curiosity, I've been keeping up with the new "CBR" price situation here in CM. Both main dealers had 250 models; neither had a 150 to show today. One is asking 120,000 for the bigger bike, is vague about delivery, and wants 82,000 for the 150, but claims that orders for the smaller bike will be a long time in arriving.

The other dealer (near Airport Central Mall) showed me a price list (made up where? and who invented it?) that listed the 250 for 109K, and the 150 at 81,500. Won't give delivery dates estimates either.

Seems to me that even 9,000 baht is a bit high to cover delivery, if the dealer has to pay more than they do in the south.

'Course, I know that some would say if you really want the bike, why not pay the extra 9,000; it's cheap as chips. No it isn't.