To Be Or Not To Be Legal - Marriage

[a2396]

I am currently resising in Thailand and would like to know the opinions of the members regarding the advisability of a legal marriage (to a Thai woman). I plan to stay in Thailand and do not intend to take the wife back to my country. I know there are some econoomic advantages for visa (less money required) and the ability to jointly own land with the wife. But, I do not see any other advantages. Any comments? Thanks.

[penelope]

I am currently resising in Thailand and would like to know the opinions of the members regarding the advisability of a legal marriage (to a Thai woman). I plan to stay in Thailand and do not intend to take the wife back to my country. I know there are some econoomic advantages for visa (less money required) and the ability to jointly own land with the wife. But, I do not see any other advantages. Any comments? Thanks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Call me old fashioned, but AFAIC the only reason to marry should be love.If you find yourself considering marriage for other reasons, you should probably focus on overcoming those shortcomings that you think marriage would solve,ease or provide leverage for. Just my opinion.

Regarding "and the ability to jointly own land with the wife"...non-thai individuals can't own land (individual or joint ownership).

Edited July 28, 2005 by penelope

[Totster]

I know there are some econoomic advantages for visa (less money required)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not true..

The only visa advantage would be that you would qualify for a Non Imm O visa based on marriage. This could be extended for a year as long as you satisfy the financial requirements. I wouldn't say this is an economical advantage or that any less money is required

and the ability to jointly own land with the wife. B

Not True...

You would not be able to own land in Thailand, even jointly with your wife. You could set up a company to own the land, but you could do this whether you were married or not.

totster

[huahin]

I am currently resising in Thailand and would like to know the opinions of the members regarding the advisability of a legal marriage (to a Thai woman). I plan to stay in Thailand and do not intend to take the wife back to my country. I know there are some econoomic advantages for visa (less money required) and the ability to jointly own land with the wife. But, I do not see any other advantages. Any comments? Thanks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Call me old fashioned, but AFAIC the only reason to marry should be love.If you find yourself considering marriage for other reasons, you should probably focus on overcoming those shortcomings that you think marriage would solve,ease or provide leverage for. Just my opinion.

Regarding "and the ability to jointly own land with the wife"...non-thai individuals can't own land (individual or joint ownership).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Great answer Penelope

[The_Doctor]

Hear Hear....

When I get married (October), I will get married legally - I haven't looked or considered any economic advantages or disadvantages to it, they aren't relevant...! If it causes problems, or presents advantages in the future, then I will either deal with them or benefit from them - thats life.

If you were english, marrying another english man/woman, would you start wondering if you should register your marriage or not? Maybe because of child support etc.?

If you even consider this question, reconsider getting married...

[WhiteShiva]

I am currently resising in Thailand and would like to know the opinions of the members regarding the advisability of a legal marriage (to a Thai woman). I plan to stay in Thailand and do not intend to take the wife back to my country. I know there are some econoomic advantages for visa (less money required) and the ability to jointly own land with the wife. But, I do not see any other advantages. Any comments? Thanks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Call me old fashioned, but AFAIC the only reason to marry should be love.If you find yourself considering marriage for other reasons, you should probably focus on overcoming those shortcomings that you think marriage would solve,ease or provide leverage for. Just my opinion.

Regarding "and the ability to jointly own land with the wife"...non-thai individuals can't own land (individual or joint ownership).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well that makes for two "old-fashioned" posters in this thread. I read the OP, and thought to myself "&lt;deleted&gt; is this guy thinking".

My advise is - don't marry - with your attitude, you will attract the wrong type of woman who will rip you off, and you will join the thousands of bitter twisted farang men in Thailand, complaining about how Thais are all worthless scum, the women cannot be trusted, etc, etc.

Stay single, enjoy yourself, and as penelope recommended - try to overcome your shortcomings. And grow up!

[a2396]

Since I have been previously married and divorced twice before in USA, I consider it prudent to evaluate all things that can go awry. I have found that love can be a as changable as the wind. There are no children involved here,either hers or mine. Is a Thai wife entitled to alimony in a divorce where there are no children??

[a2396]

I am currently resising in Thailand and would like to know the opinions of the members regarding the advisability of a legal marriage (to a Thai woman). I plan to stay in Thailand and do not intend to take the wife back to my country. I know there are some econoomic advantages for visa (less money required) and the ability to jointly own land with the wife. But, I do not see any other advantages. Any comments? Thanks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Call me old fashioned, but AFAIC the only reason to marry should be love.If you find yourself considering marriage for other reasons, you should probably focus on overcoming those shortcomings that you think marriage would solve,ease or provide leverage for. Just my opinion.

Regarding "and the ability to jointly own land with the wife"...non-thai individuals can't own land (individual or joint ownership).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well that makes for two "old-fashioned" posters in this thread. I read the OP, and thought to myself "&lt;deleted&gt; is this guy thinking".

My advise is - don't marry - with your attitude, you will attract the wrong type of woman who will rip you off, and you will join the thousands of bitter twisted farang men in Thailand, complaining about how Thais are all worthless scum, the women cannot be trusted, etc, etc.

Stay single, enjoy yourself, and as penelope recommended - try to overcome your shortcomings. And grow up!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What shortcomings?? I am living in reality, not fantasy. If you go blindly into an marriage, particularly one from a different culture and language, in a country where many of these realtionships are based on money, you are living in dreamland

[LadyinRed]

I believe she can "rip your b8lls out" if she wants to since you are in her country.

Someone told me it's a lot of hassle getting a divorce here.

[penelope]

What shortcomings??

2 shortcomings mentioned in OP.

I know there are some econoomic advantages for visa (less money required) and the ability to jointly own land with the wife

1) Economic w/ regards to visa

2) Land ownership

How to solve these issues without being marrried

1) there are other Non-Imm visa categories, that can also lead to PR

2) you can get back to back 30 year leases, get BOI investment privleges, own through a company

Edited July 28, 2005 by penelope

[billd766]

I am currently resising in Thailand and would like to know the opinions of the members regarding the advisability of a legal marriage (to a Thai woman). I plan to stay in Thailand and do not intend to take the wife back to my country. I know there are some econoomic advantages for visa (less money required) and the ability to jointly own land with the wife. But, I do not see any other advantages. Any comments? Thanks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Call me old fashioned, but AFAIC the only reason to marry should be love.If you find yourself considering marriage for other reasons, you should probably focus on overcoming those shortcomings that you think marriage would solve,ease or provide leverage for. Just my opinion.

Regarding "and the ability to jointly own land with the wife"...non-thai individuals can't own land (individual or joint ownership).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well that makes for two "old-fashioned" posters in this thread. I read the OP, and thought to myself "&lt;deleted&gt; is this guy thinking".

My advise is - don't marry - with your attitude, you will attract the wrong type of woman who will rip you off, and you will join the thousands of bitter twisted farang men in Thailand, complaining about how Thais are all worthless scum, the women cannot be trusted, etc, etc.

Stay single, enjoy yourself, and as penelope recommended - try to overcome your shortcomings. And grow up!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What shortcomings?? I am living in reality, not fantasy. If you go blindly into an marriage, particularly one from a different culture and language, in a country where many of these realtionships are based on money, you are living in dreamland

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well a2396 i am legally married to my Thai wife in the UK and she is not bothered about getting married again in Thailand. I have known my wife for 12 years and we have been married for 5 of them, and our son will be 1 year old next week.

I was married before in the UK and I divorced my UK wife to marry my Thai wife.

I married for love and not for any advantages to be able to live in Thailand and in fact I am financially worse off than if I had stayed married to my UK wife. On the other hand I have been a lot happier in the last few years than I could have hoped.

My wife has no desire to live in the UK or wants a UK passport as she is Thai through and through. The only thing she has asked me for is a UK passport for our son so that he will be able to have dual nationality and I think that this is a good idea.

My wife owns the land, house, property, car etc and I own the clothes I have and a few more things and I have no problems with that at all.

I did not go "blindly" into marriage and thought long and hard before I asked her to marry me. She did not ask me to marry her and was quite happy to be together but I felt that as I love her it would be better if we were married as when I die she will be financially secure as she will be entitled to a portion of my pensions until she dies.

I am working at the moment to provide funds for the future of our family.

If my wife decided that she could not live with me any longer I would not regret a minute of the time we have spent together.

The second best thing that has happened to me in the last few years was marrying Nee and the best thing was the birth of our son.

She speaks better English than I speak Thai and keeps me on the straight and narrow and looks after our money far better than I ever did.

I thank Buddha every day for my good luck.

The only economic advantage to me in our marriage is that now I have money to spend if I need to because she will not let me waste it as I did before.

Marry for love and enjoy it.

Marry for any other reason and regret it.

[easy_jim]

I married my That girlfriend this year. It goes without saying I wouldn't have done so if I didn't love her but for me the most important benefit of getting married is the legal status of our soon to be born child. If we weren't married the child would not be entitled to a British passport and I want her to have that option.

[mickmac]

In defense of the OP, I can understand, to a certain extent, where he is coming from. I too went through a divorce several years ago, and ended up with a suitcase of clothes. I was fortunate in that I was 31 and was still young enough to start from scratch again. I worked hard, and now own a couple of properties.

I am still worried that I would lose the lot again.

You may sneer and wax lyrical about love etc. but until you have lost everything and had to start from scratch again I feel that you may be missing the OP's point.

F.Y.I. I am living with a Thai woman and have been doing so for the last 2 years, quite happily I may add. I will in time marry the lady, but I will make provisions for her and her 2 children in Thailand, so that if we ever part or I pass away before her, she will have property here, she already has land and a car, all in her name. However the property outside Thailand will not go to her.

[chownah]

Call me old fashioned, but AFAIC the only reason to marry should be love.If you find yourself considering marriage for other reasons, you should probably focus on overcoming those shortcomings that you think marriage would solve,ease or provide leverage for. Just my opinion.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Call me old fashioned but AFAIC the only realy committment and love that constitutes the REAL marriage comes from the hearts of the two people involved. Getting that piece of paper from the government is mostly to satisfy those people who don't really understand where the real love and committment come from...from the heart. If getting that piece of paper will help you around some obstacle in life then go ahead and get it....if it will not do this then forget it and stand firm with the love and committment in your heart.

[uncle paul]

In defense of the OP, I can understand, to a certain extent, where he is coming from. I too went through a divorce several years ago, and ended up with a suitcase of clothes. I was fortunate in that I was 31 and was still young enough to start from scratch again. I worked hard, and now own a couple of properties.

I am still worried that I would lose the lot again.

You may sneer and wax lyrical about love etc. but until you have lost everything and had to start from scratch again I feel that you may be missing the OP's point.

F.Y.I. I am living with a Thai woman and have been doing so for the last 2 years, quite happily I may add. I will in time marry the lady, but I will make provisions for her and her 2 children in Thailand, so that if we ever part or I pass away before her,  she will have property here, she already has land and a car, all in her name. However the property outside Thailand will not go to her.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

famous last words!

[Braccobaldo]

I don't see any advantages in married...unless you can found a very rich girl...

[meom]

I am currently resising in Thailand and would like to know the opinions of the members regarding the advisability of a legal marriage (to a Thai woman). I plan to stay in Thailand and do not intend to take the wife back to my country. I know there are some econoomic advantages for visa (less money required) and the ability to jointly own land with the wife. But, I do not see any other advantages. Any comments? Thanks.

We live in modern times and more and more people just live together without the legal piece of paper. If you and your partner are happy with that no need to get married.

[Jimmy in Bangkok]

In defense of the OP, I can understand, to a certain extent, where he is coming from. I too went through a divorce several years ago, and ended up with a suitcase of clothes. I was fortunate in that I was 31 and was still young enough to start from scratch again. I worked hard, and now own a couple of properties.

I am still worried that I would lose the lot again.

You may sneer and wax lyrical about love etc. but until you have lost everything and had to start from scratch again I feel that you may be missing the OP's point.

F.Y.I. I am living with a Thai woman and have been doing so for the last 2 years, quite happily I may add. I will in time marry the lady, but I will make provisions for her and her 2 children in Thailand, so that if we ever part or I pass away before her,  she will have property here, she already has land and a car, all in her name. However the property outside Thailand will not go to her.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry to hear about that Mickmac. I have been divorced twice before and after the second time I didn't even have the bag of clothes I am now married to a wonderful Thai lady and mate I'm afraid if you are still worrying about what you'll lose or won't lose with regard to material possesions over being with someone that you trust implicitly and truly love then you are in for a bit of a miserable life. I regard my wife and children as my primary concern not my properties or cars etc.

[OxfordWill]

Its all down to if you plan to have children and what you hope for them in the future. LEGAL marriage is one thing and religious marriage is another. I'd be surprised if the posters advocating a legal marriage would say it is any more real than a marriage in the eyes of god or the head abbot at the temple etc. Its just less legal.

I know of some couple who had a ceremony at the temple and after that have been living as a married couple and everyone thinks of them as a married couple, theyre just not legally married.

Unfortunately you're in a catch 22 if you want to both avoid potential asset loss and also provide your firstborn with the relevant passports. The solution: pre-nup in both languages.

[donx]

Here's a variation on the question of being legally married. I was legally married to my Thai wife in the U.S. (she came over on a fiancee visa). A few months later we had a formal thai wedding, but the marriage has never been recorded with the Thai government. What are the advantages/disadvantages to having our marriage recorded by the Thai government?

We live in the U.S. and our children have both U.S. and Thai passports. My wife's passport is still in her maiden name, but she always uses a duplicate birth certificate to show her married name is tied to her Permanent Residence card which has her married name (i.e. her first name with my last name).

[billd766]

In defense of the OP, I can understand, to a certain extent, where he is coming from. I too went through a divorce several years ago, and ended up with a suitcase of clothes. I was fortunate in that I was 31 and was still young enough to start from scratch again. I worked hard, and now own a couple of properties.

I am still worried that I would lose the lot again.

You may sneer and wax lyrical about love etc. but until you have lost everything and had to start from scratch again I feel that you may be missing the OP's point.

F.Y.I. I am living with a Thai woman and have been doing so for the last 2 years, quite happily I may add. I will in time marry the lady, but I will make provisions for her and her 2 children in Thailand, so that if we ever part or I pass away before her,  she will have property here, she already has land and a car, all in her name. However the property outside Thailand will not go to her.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry to hear about that Mickmac. I have been divorced twice before and after the second time I didn't even have the bag of clothes I am now married to a wonderful Thai lady and mate I'm afraid if you are still worrying about what you'll lose or won't lose with regard to material possesions over being with someone that you trust implicitly and truly love then you are in for a bit of a miserable life. I regard my wife and children as my primary concern not my properties or cars etc.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I too went through a very expensive divorce but at least I took a rented cars worth of my stuff with me.

I agree with Jimmy totally in the fact if you cannot trust the lady you are with, Thai or Farang, and there is no real love or commitment then forget it because what you get from the relationship will not be worth it.

Edited July 28, 2005 by billd766

[mickmac]

Sorry to hear about that Mickmac. I have been divorced twice before and after the second time I didn't even have the bag of clothes I am now married to a wonderful Thai lady and mate I'm afraid if you are still worrying about what you'll lose or won't lose with regard to material possesions over being with someone that you trust implicitly and truly love then you are in for a bit of a miserable life. I regard my wife and children as my primary concern not my properties or cars etc.

Hi Jimmy, I do see your point and understand it. It may be that I'm one of these people that needs a safety net. We are all different and have different outlooks on life, thats what makes the world go round.

If I feel that I want something behind me in case things go pear shaped again the surely I have every right to do that? Maybe I feel comfortable knowing that if Toxsin finally makes it hard for westerners to live here that I can up sticks and take the family back to the UK or Ireland and not have to worry about putting a roof over their head, or that in leasing out the properties I will be able to retire to LOS without having to worry whether I can afford to put her Children through university.

May I add, my young lady does not want for anything, nor do her children, for whom I also have taken on the responsiblity of.

I feel that you may have mis-interpreted my email, I do not put my young lady and children second to property, etc., but I do not intend to sink everything I have worked hard to achieve into Thailand.

[Jimmy in Bangkok]

Sorry to hear about that Mickmac. I have been divorced twice before and after the second time I didn't even have the bag of clothes I am now married to a wonderful Thai lady and mate I'm afraid if you are still worrying about what you'll lose or won't lose with regard to material possesions over being with someone that you trust implicitly and truly love then you are in for a bit of a miserable life. I regard my wife and children as my primary concern not my properties or cars etc.

Hi Jimmy,  I do see your point and understand it. It may be that I'm one of these people that needs a safety net. We are all different and have different outlooks on life, thats what makes the world go round.

If I feel that I want something behind me in case things go pear shaped again the surely I have every right to do that?  Maybe I feel comfortable knowing that if Toxsin finally makes it hard for westerners to live here that I can up sticks and take the family back to the UK or Ireland and not have to worry about putting a roof over their head, or that in leasing out the properties I will be able to retire to LOS without having to worry whether I can afford to put her Children through university.

May I add, my young lady does not want for anything, nor do her children, for whom I also have taken on the responsiblity of. 

I feel that you may have mis-interpreted my email, I do not put my young lady and children second to property, etc., but I do not intend to sink everything I have worked hard to achieve into Thailand.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good reply Mickmac,

Putting it in that light certainly makes a difference mate and yes, I may have taken what you said in your original post the wrong way and I appologize for coming over all self righteous (bit of a failing on my part there I'm afraid) but the way I read your post got me quite wound up (note to self-calm down!) and now you have explained yourself a bit more clearly (clearly in MY eyes that is) it certainly came across a great deal better in your second post rather than your first. I can also see your point of view now you've explained it further and yes we are all different and have different outlooks which is what makes it so interesting. I hope this has cleared up my position as well.

[Heng]

A lot of locals delay the registration of marriage for business reasons. It's a way of protecting the real estate assets of both the bride AND the groom acquired after the marriage (traditional only, not legal). If you get into a situation where say the bride has 40 million in property and the groom also has 40 million..... but one party's business venture or partnerships fail resulting in 80 million of debt, which one day will likely end up being enforced by the 'klrom bangkp cadee,' they can only seize the 40 million belonging to one party, and not the other 40 million because they are considered two separate entities. It's not an end all solution (as some might press the case that you really are one entity, using the same accounts, etc.), but often it can buy you valuable time to get your assets sorted.

[IMA_FARANG]

I believe she can "rip your b8lls out" if she wants to since you are in her country. 

Someone told me it's a lot of hassle getting a divorce here.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Someone told me it's a lot of hassle getting a divorce here.

Used to be not true. Law could have been changed, but there used to be a procedure for "uncontested divorce". Only requirent was: both parties had to agree to divorce and both had to sign proper forms in Ampur. Took only one day. Problem is: few Thai women these days will agree to that proceedure. Once this divorce was done, neither party was able to contest disposition of property. Property disposition had to be agreed by both parties in writing prior to divorce. Part of divorce agreement was statement that neither party would contest disposition of property. I know, I had one. Thai girl left me, because she found a bigger (richer) fish to hook. That was about 25 years ago. Best thing that ever happened to me.

As the country/western song says, "Thank God and Greyhound she's gone"

Last time I heard she is still living in Germany. She is divorced from the fool, and living on his money. (He was 30 then, and still lived with mommy)

[mrbojangles]

In defense of the OP, I can understand, to a certain extent, where he is coming from. I too went through a divorce several years ago, and ended up with a suitcase of clothes. I was fortunate in that I was 31 and was still young enough to start from scratch again. I worked hard, and now own a couple of properties.

I am still worried that I would lose the lot again.

You may sneer and wax lyrical about love etc. but until you have lost everything and had to start from scratch again I feel that you may be missing the OP's point.

Good post Mickmac. Once bitten, twice shy. That is all that is being said here. Nothing wrong with that at all. For info, yes, i have been bitten also............ once

Mr BoJ

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Here's a variation on the question of being legally married.  I was legally married to my Thai wife in the U.S. (she came over on a fiancee visa).  A few months later we had a formal thai wedding, but the marriage has never been recorded with the Thai government.  What are the advantages/disadvantages to having our marriage recorded by the Thai government?

We live in the U.S. and our children have both U.S. and Thai passports.  My wife's passport is still in her maiden name, but she always uses a duplicate birth certificate to show her married name is tied to her Permanent Residence card which has her married name (i.e. her first name with my last name).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thailand recognizes foreign marriages. No registration is required to validate it.

[Humphrey Bear]

Since I have been previously married and divorced twice before in USA, I consider it prudent to evaluate all things that can go awry. I have found that love can be a as changable as the wind. There are no children involved here,either hers or mine. Is a Thai wife entitled to alimony in a divorce where there are no children??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If it's an amicable divorce, where you both agree to go your separate ways, then you just go down to the Amphur where you got married and say 'cancel these documents'. (Near enough, anyway). But if you do not offer to support your soon-to-be-ex wife and family in the way to which they would like to become accustomed, then she will bring in lawyers and you will lose everything you have in Thailand.

If, before you get married, you are thinking this way, forget the whole thing and so save some poor Thai girl from having her life ruined.

I, too, have been divorced twice before, each time in the UK. Each cost me a house and a considerable chunk of change. I am happily married in LOS with an eight-year-old daughter and do not expect to get divorced again. But shit happens .... I am just not planning on it although I keep the bulk of my money outside Thailand.

[Sojourner]

One thing not mentioned by the posters is that it is sooooo much easier getting a visa for your wife to travel abroad than it is for a g/f. Everyone's case is different, that's for sure, but if traveling together is in the cards then being legally married is a must. One can always have a lawyer draw up a pre-nuptial agreement if you don't want her to touch the assets you bring into Thailand with you. Certainly if you pay for property that is put in your wife's name, you shouldn't expect to see that back.

[a2396]

Thanks for the good advice. For me, I think the answer is obvious. No legal marriage. A legaal marriage would appear to give her and the family more leverage for various "extraction" schemes, which I heve seen a few of already. If I wanterd to take her overseas, it would be another matter, but I do not. It would seem that in the event of a divorce,she could try to make some sort of claim for support, since she is not working. I am not 30 yrs old and ready to start over if something goes "bump in the night".