Thaksin To Return To Thailand If Pheu Thai Wins

[SomTumTiger]

I love my Thaksin-brand toilet paper. That way, I keep him exactly where he deserves to be, close to my...

[animatic]

Rightly or wrongly, I have no respect whatever for dan rivers, (dan the man - who appeared from nowhere and, in front of a Thai military tank, 5 minites after the bloodless coup of September 2006, said on CNN International (the mother of all instant and not verified TV channels) 'the king has authorized a coup', so why would anybody listen to /believe what this man / or what any CNN outlet says?

well, who cares?

Far fewer do now that he is back where he belongs and where he is more comfortable which helps him immensely to have a clue about what he is talking about.

Well, i don't care what you think about 'scorecard'. Just read his post and you will know that dude cannot be taken for serious.

Which says so much about your inability to be discerning vis a vis various posters here on TVF, and likely elsewhere also.

Edited October 21, 2010 by animatic

[animatic]

All Thais are free to change and improve their lives,

as well as bitch and moan and blame others for their lack of doing so.

This country is filled with all types and motivations, it is not some simple

black/white, good/bad, red/yellow juxtaposition.

Some move themselves forward, others don't.

The new middle class is filled with those who have, through hard work.

The whining classes don't share the same proportion of go getters.

And this is not exclusive to just the very poor and uneducated.

Anyone can move ahead if they are motivated to,

and create a better world for their children,

without ruining others lives to do it.

Edited October 21, 2010 by animatic

[kropotkin]

All Thais are free to change and improve their lives,

as well as bitch and moan and blame others for their lack of doing so.

This country is filled with all types and motivations, it is not some simple

black/white, good/bad, red/yellow juxtaposition.

Some move themselves forward, others don't.

The new middle class is filled with those who have, through hard work.

The whining classes don't share the same proportion of go getters.

And this is not exclusive to just the very poor and uneducated.

Anyone can move ahead if they are motivated to,

and create a better world for their children,

without ruining others lives to do it.

Ah ...... the amerikan dream!

Or nightmare?

Does it not all start with education?

Long way to go in thailand.

As my wife - she is thai - says: some people go to school a long time, but they did not learn anything.

Shall we blame ---- thai culture?----- poor thai? ----- or thai schools, that are controlled by the amart? (red or yellow, same same)

[way2muchcoffee]

Ah ...... the amerikan dream!

Or nightmare?

Does it not all start with education?

Long way to go in thailand.

As my wife - she is thai - says: some people go to school a long time, but they did not learn anything.

Shall we blame ---- thai culture?----- poor thai? ----- or thai schools, that are controlled by the amart? (red or yellow, same same)

I believe the failure of the school system is mostly due to Thai culture. Motivation, discipline, and maturity is seriously lacking in the land of sabai sabai.

[SergeiY]

I believe the failure of the school system is mostly due to Thai culture.

pfff.

Are you a missioner?

[rametindallas]

I want my children to grow up in country filled with hope and opportunity. If Thaksin is ever allowed to return, that dream is dead. The only person Thaksin will ever allow to have real opportunity is Thaksin.

Well Greg, that's just selfish. What about Thaksin's children? Don't they deserve a fair go?

You're also being a bit unfair to Thaksin. He allows heaps of people, dozens even, to have a real opportunity. Unless of course, you believe being offered ShinCorp shares at B1 / share isn't genuine opportunity...

LOL

Someone needs to invent a 'sarcasm' font as I am sure some poster will take your words at face value. BTW, I've been told that Thais don't recognize sarcasm. Please correct me if I've been misinformed.

[SergeiY]

You are misinformed.

[rametindallas]

When they voted for Thaksin/Peua Thai, they voted for 500 Baht cash in hand - that's 34.2 Satang per day over the 4-year term (in some cases!). However, his policies were costing them more than that*, therefore they were voting to become poorer, particularly in the longer term.

This is where the PAD's claims that Thailand "isn't yet ready for a democracy" stem from. They'd prefer a more fascist approach. However, you could use the same logic to developed democracies like the US or the UK - "I vote Labour because I've always Labour", even though Labour has gone from left-wing to middle-right wing in a matter of 2 decades. Surely people should vote for policies, not for a colour?

* I realise this is difficult to clarify - note that the economy was pretty successful under Thaksin, albeit during a time of world economic boom. But the "loans for farmers" scheme has cost the average Isaan farmer thousands of Baht a year, and that was just one policy.

lol good luck convincing humans that the golden years of their memories is somehow counter-intuitively or paradoxically responsible for their hardship now.

Or that they should suffer now so as to - one day - have a chance of seeing the golden years again.

Or even that if they don't accept cutbacks now, they'll lose it all (ref: Greeks c. 2010)

I think there was a fable about this...geese and golden eggs and whatnot.

But this is why the Red Shirts are the pick of the idiot litter:

Abhisit's 2011 social welfare programs (this is merely leading up to his "Cradle to Grave Welfare Socialist State" eta 2016 *if they let him give it to them lol):

Plan to increase civil servants' salaries 5 per cent Q2 2011. The pay raise, which will cost an additional Bt30 billion on top of the present Bt500-billion salary expenditure, will take effect in April 2011.

The government is considering extending cost-of-living measures for low-income earners, including relief from energy costs, while preparing to forgive a massive amount of farmers' debt.

Free electricity, bus and train rides for low-income earners, costs the public Bt4.5 billion every three months.

Originally, in 2008, when the price of oil spiked to more than US$140 per barrel for the first time, the Samak government initiated a total of six cost-of-living measures to help the poor.

Over six months, it spent about Bt40 billion.

Then, the Abhisit government adopted five such measures - free electricity, buses, trains and water and a freeze on the price of cooking gas.

The cooking-gas subsidy was dropped in March, but the Energy Ministry plans to resurrect it for another six months, with the Oil Fund expected to spend another Bt6 billion on subsidies.

On farmers' debts, the Cabinet approved a programme last week under which four state banks will grant a 50-per-cent reduction of debts owed by farmers, provided they join a related career-development plan.

Farmers accepting the offer will be allowed to clear their remaining debts over 15 years with special interest terms equalling the banks' minimum retail rate minus 3 percentage points.

Currently, there are about 80,000 farmers with non-performing loans.

Earlier, the Abhisit government approved a huge subsidy covering 15 years of free schooling. It applies to free textbooks, uniforms and other learning materials.

About Bt6 billion is to be spent on free textbooks; Bt4.5 billion on school uniforms; Bt2 billion on learning materials and Bt4 billion on special activities. Private schools will get Bt1.5-billion worth of state subsidies.

The 2010 budget for free schooling is Bt73 billion.

The government is also planning to introduce a savings-matching programme for senior citizens, covering more than 3,000 communities around the country in which it will set aside funds to match the savings of old people. Currently, the government is providing Bt500 per month to elderly people.

The cost of the farmer-income insurance scheme is estimated to be Bt30 billion annually, covering 3.19 million rice farmers (Bt28.35 billion); 379,785 cassava farmers (Bt2.43 billion); and 379,304 corn farmers (Bt5.63 billion).

Earlier, the government also initiated a programme to relieve the debt burden on poor people caused by high-interest loans.

About 1.19 million debtors registered with the government, representing a combined debt of Bt122 billion.

From January 2009 to April 2010, the government provided tax incentives for property buyers and businesses totalling Bt34.73 billion. It has now restored the special-business tax of 3.3 per cent after reducing it to 0.1 per cent; restored the property transfer fee to 2 per cent from 0.01 per cent; and restored the mortgage registration fee to 1 per cent from 0.01 per cent.

On funeral services for the poor, the Social Development and Human Security Ministry has allocated Bt44.13 million to pay for the funeral rites of 22,063 people who have died of natural causes. Over the full fiscal year, it expects to spend Bt475 million on funeral services for 237,663 poor people.

In addition, the government is reportedly planning a savings programme for newborn babies, who will be entitled to a monthly Bt500 state-sponsored saving programme until they are 18. This will cost the government Bt6,000 per newborn per year.

lol this is the "lapdog of the elites". Who's doing a stunningly cheeky job of moonlighting as the planet's most generous socialist.

But they're not interested in such generosity. They want the guy who 'speaks' to them. In their language. Tells them:

1. All debt gone in 6 months!

2. Next 6 months, I'm gonna make a fortune so nobody has to work!

3. After that, I'm gonna make jobs for your children!

4. Worried about floods? Don't be. I'm gonna build a dam around the whole of Bangkok!

5. We're gonna share the wealth!

6. We're gonna eliminate poverty!

7. And every child will take their own computer to school!

Meanwhile, everyone bags Abhisit for not *more effectively* juggling the corrupt elected officials which Isan continues to send to Bangkok.

And some people have this crazy idea, that Thailand isn't ready for democracy? But I don't understand...whatever could have given them that elitist idea??

Terrific post!

[kropotkin]

I believe the failure of the school system is mostly due to Thai culture.

pfff.

Are you a missioner?

or perhaps a visionaire ?

[TheyCallmeScooter]

I want my children to grow up in country filled with hope and opportunity. If Thaksin is ever allowed to return, that dream is dead. The only person Thaksin will ever allow to have real opportunity is Thaksin.

Well Greg, that's just selfish. What about Thaksin's children? Don't they deserve a fair go?

You're also being a bit unfair to Thaksin. He allows heaps of people, dozens even, to have a real opportunity. Unless of course, you believe being offered ShinCorp shares at B1 / share isn't genuine opportunity...

LOL

Someone needs to invent a 'sarcasm' font as I am sure some poster will take your words at face value. BTW, I've been told that Thais don't recognize sarcasm. Please correct me if I've been misinformed.

lol well almost no one understands me. But as the spread is not isolated to Thais by any means, and the overwhelming rambling chaos that is my frantic drunk posting....I do not necessarily believe that is an indictment on them so much as it might be on the 'author'. The consistent variable is my noose rambling.

Can't fight algebra brahh.

[kropotkin]

how drunk must we get ? to accept one anothers reasons to live in thailand ?

[Buchholz]

A Thai anti-government 'red shirt' protester holds a fan with a portrait of former Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra during a rally at Ratchaprasong intersection, the site of their former encampment and recent bloody clashes with security forces, in Bangkok.

Reuters - October 31, 2010

[sarahsbloke]

Thai people vote for man X

Thai military say, man X not suitable, we choose man Y, we have guns so our vote is more important than your vote.

man Y accuses man X of being a criminal and man X flees the country.

man Y arranges for man X to be convicted of various crimes.

My wife's opinion, everything in Thailand will be good again when Thaksin returns.

She seems to hold the same opinion as every other Thai I have spoken with.

Apart from middle class Thais who live in Bangkok, who like the army.

I have no opinion, I am only a foreigner and don't get involved in matters that are NONE OF MY BUSINESS!

Edited November 1, 2010 by sarahsbloke

[zaphodbeeblebrox]

She seems to hold the same opinion as every other Thai I have spoken with.

Funny. Only about two of the hundreds I have spoken with hold that opinion.

[Pi Sek]

Thai people vote for man X

Thai military say, man X not suitable, we choose man Y, we have guns so our vote is more important than your vote.

man Y accuses man X of being a criminal and man X flees the country.

man Y arranges for man X to be convicted of various crimes.

My wife's opinion, everything in Thailand will be good again when Thaksin returns.

She seems to hold the same opinion as every other Thai I have spoken with.

Apart from middle class Thais who live in Bangkok, who like the army.

I have no opinion, I am only a foreigner and don't get involved in matters that are NONE OF MY BUSINESS!

Funny. Only about two of the hundreds I have spoken with hold that opinion.

Yes, I don't live in Bangkok and noone I know believes things will actually get better if Thaksin returns, under any circumstance. The feeling in the South is that Thaksin is a genius scumbag and the currnet govt are just as full of lies and corrupt as most of the former ones - but not as bad as Thaksin. From what I make out, even in Udon Thani the pro- and anti- Thaksin support is fairly split these days.

Sarah's bloke is presumably a farang man and Sarah is Thai, by the looks of the above post

[animatic]

She seems to hold the same opinion as every other Thai I have spoken with.

Funny. Only about two of the hundreds I have spoken with hold that opinion.

Seconded.

[jayjay0]

Thai people vote for man X

Thai military say, man X not suitable, we choose man Y, we have guns so our vote is more important than your vote.

man Y accuses man X of being a criminal and man X flees the country.

man Y arranges for man X to be convicted of various crimes.

My wife's opinion, everything in Thailand will be good again when Thaksin returns.

She seems to hold the same opinion as every other Thai I have spoken with.

Apart from middle class Thais who live in Bangkok, who like the army.

I have no opinion, I am only a foreigner and don't get involved in matters that are NONE OF MY BUSINESS!

Funny. Only about two of the hundreds I have spoken with hold that opinion.

Yes, I don't live in Bangkok and noone I know believes things will actually get better if Thaksin returns, under any circumstance. The feeling in the South is that Thaksin is a genius scumbag and the currnet govt are just as full of lies and corrupt as most of the former ones - but not as bad as Thaksin. From what I make out, even in Udon Thani the pro- and anti- Thaksin support is fairly split these days.

Sarah's bloke is presumably a farang man and Sarah is Thai, by the looks of the above post

My self I live in Chiang Mai and my wife wants nothing to do with Thaksin. I have spoken to others who feel the same way. That is not to say that all Thai's feel that way. Perhaps Sarahsbloke is missing some thing in the translation. I think the two elections they have had pretty well tell how Thailand feels bout Thaksin.

[sarahsbloke]

It would be interesting to have an election with Thaksins name on the voting slip.

Then we would be able to see for sure.

Edited November 1, 2010 by sarahsbloke

[whybother]

It would be interesting to have an election with Thaksins name on the voting slip.

Then we would be able to see for sure.

Given all that PTP have said about Thaksin, he effectively does.

[Buchholz]

Along with the Thaksin fanatic in Post # 166, these are also very likely to be Thaksin voters:

Thai anti-government "red shirt" protesters wear sunglasses during a rally at Ratchaprasong intersection, the site of their former encampment and recent bloody clashes with security forces, in Bangkok October 31, 2010.

REUTERS

Edited November 1, 2010 by Buchholz

[rubl]

With halloween and the great pumpkin behind us I thought this picture may say it all.

[scorecard]

Thai people vote for man X

Thai military say, man X not suitable, we choose man Y, we have guns so our vote is more important than your vote.

man Y accuses man X of being a criminal and man X flees the country.

man Y arranges for man X to be convicted of various crimes.

My wife's opinion, everything in Thailand will be good again when Thaksin returns.

She seems to hold the same opinion as every other Thai I have spoken with.

Apart from middle class Thais who live in Bangkok, who like the army.

I have no opinion, I am only a foreigner and don't get involved in matters that are NONE OF MY BUSINESS!

Quote: My wife's opinion, everything in Thailand will be good again when Thaksin returns.

She seems to hold the same opinion as every other Thai I have spoken with.

Well you obviously haven't spoken to many Thais.

Quote: Apart from middle class Thais who live in Bangkok, who like the army.

Why do you say that, care to share some facts / data which indicates that Bangkok people like the army, and also explain it's relevance to the discussion?

[scorecard]

Thai people vote for man X

Thai military say, man X not suitable, we choose man Y, we have guns so our vote is more important than your vote.

man Y accuses man X of being a criminal and man X flees the country.

man Y arranges for man X to be convicted of various crimes.

My wife's opinion, everything in Thailand will be good again when Thaksin returns.

She seems to hold the same opinion as every other Thai I have spoken with.

Apart from middle class Thais who live in Bangkok, who like the army.

I have no opinion, I am only a foreigner and don't get involved in matters that are NONE OF MY BUSINESS!

Quote: Thai people vote for man X

You conveniently don't mention the fact that he bought their votes, twice, and it's been proven.

Quote: man Y arranges for man X to be convicted of various crimes.

You seem to forget that he:

- Broke numerous laws (one being the reason he was convicted and sentenced to two years in jail)

- Engaged in massive corruption (around 12 major cases can't processuntil he's in Thailand)

- Intimidated the judiciary

- Had his lawyers deliver 5 million baht cash gift in a donut box to court officilas (bribe)

- Railroaded the reversal of major investment laws all for the absolutely massive benefits of his family and cronies

- Practiced nepotism on a scale never seen before, placing his relatives in numerous strategic positions of power, some family members jumping numerous ranks in one promotion

- Intimidated the electoral commisiion (and they eventually went to jail)

- Supervised the direct assassination of over 2,500 fellow Thais without recourse to any form of legal process, and several hundred more in he Tak Bai incident

- Had his red people convince the red followers that he (T) personally paid off the IMF loan with his own money.

- Totally failed to do his duty as a moral compass, as expected from the people of any country

and more...

[Rimmer]

Inflammatory post removed from view also two quoted replies

[scorecard]

I thought I were the only person on TV that can see support (Whether right or wrong) for Thaksin and the red shirts.

I think everyone can see it. I don't think anyone denies that Thaksin and the red shirts have support in Thailand. The question is to what degree.

(As an aside, anyone know where all the posters who used to adamantly insist that the red shirt movement had gone beyond Thaksin have disappeared to?)

I agree with your 'aside', well said.

Further,

1. Continuing flip flops from T, I'm not involved in politics any more / last week several PT members visited him in Europe to get his blessing for policies etc etc.

2. Where's any literature / structured campaigning or discussion or moderated debate in regard to all the red claims about 'double standard' / 'democracy' / 'class war', etc. It all died with the end of their terrosism riots because it never had any real substance in the first place.

Having said that, I agree there is need urgent for reform in Thailand and a better deal to raise the opportunities and the the living standards of millions of Thais. However the reds are not a credible force to generate such change, they are nothing more than a smokescreen for their convicted paymasters personal ambitions.

Edited November 2, 2010 by scorecard

[TheyCallmeScooter]

Why do you say that, care to share some facts / data which indicates that Bangkok people like the army, and also explain it's relevance to the discussion?

I like the Royal Thai Army.

They protected my city and my home from these guys.

[sarahsbloke]

Quote: man Y arranges for man X to be convicted of various crimes.

You seem to forget that he:

- Broke numerous laws (one being the reason he was convicted and sentenced to two years in jail)

- Engaged in massive corruption (around 12 major cases can't processuntil he's in Thailand)

- Intimidated the judiciary

- Had his lawyers deliver 5 million baht cash gift in a donut box to court officilas (bribe)

- Railroaded the reversal of major investment laws all for the absolutely massive benefits of his family and cronies

- Practiced nepotism on a scale never seen before, placing his relatives in numerous strategic positions of power, some family members jumping numerous ranks in one promotion

- Intimidated the electoral commisiion (and they eventually went to jail)

- Supervised the direct assassination of over 2,500 fellow Thais without recourse to any form of legal process, and several hundred more in he Tak Bai incident

- Had his red people convince the red followers that he (T) personally paid off the IMF loan with his own money.

- Totally failed to do his duty as a moral compass, as expected from the people of any country

and more...

As a foreigner in Thailand, all I can point out is that bribary and corruption seem to be endemic in every walk of Thai life.

Certainly at the level I operate,

I bribe police to ignore minor traffic infringements

I bribe teachers to give my wife and step-daughter passing grades in school.

Pharmacys openly sell be preccription drugs if I ask nicely

Prostitutes sell their wares illegally everywhere I look

Its not as if Thaksin apeared to do anything different from everyone else, both before and after he was in power.

On a more positive side.

One of the rellys gave birth last month, up in the mountains somewhere ..... nice little hospital, wards and equipment as good as anywhere in the UK, how much does having the baby here cost, I asked? 30bht the mother replied ...... Thaksin is a great man, before I couldn't afford to give birth in hospital.

My daughter goes to a state school, How much do I need to pay, I asked my wife. School is free, answered my wife, Thaksin made all the schools free.

My wife told me when she was younger, her and all her friends in the village used to take lots of drugs. Thaksin had all the village drug dealers shot, he saved me, Thaksin is a wonderful man.

In my opinion, whatever that's worth, Thaksin seems to have done a lot for the rural people of Thailand, well they seem to think so.

Maybe I should correct them and reply, all the rich foreigners on Thai Visa seem to think Thaksin is a very bad man but they never lived in your village, they don't care if you and your children had schools and hospitals. They don't care if your lives are ruled by drug dealers. Maybe when Thaksin comes back, the first thing he should do is should get rid of the rich foreigners from your country.

Edited November 3, 2010 by sarahsbloke

[whybother]

<snip>

On a more positive side.

One of the rellys gave birth last month, up in the mountains somewhere ..... nice little hospital, wards and equipment as good as anywhere in the UK, how much does having the baby here cost, I asked? 30bht the mother replied ...... Thaksin is a great man, before I couldn't afford to give birth in hospital.

They were ripped off. The current government has removed the 30 baht cost and made it free.

[Crushdepth]

What is it with Thaksin and the word democracy? Does the guy even understand the meaning?

Apparently he struggles this rule of law idea too. If you get a conviction just get Parliament to pass legislation letting you off the hook, incredible.

And disgusting too, so sad that Thailand must suffer for the sake of one incredibly selfish criminal's fat ego.