Suzuki Hayate Or Yamaho Nouvo

[golfho]

Rented both for about two weeks (and a Honda Airblade) and actually i was surprised how

good the Suzuki Hayate was. They were all pretty equal to me and each had positives and

negatives. Money is not a big issue for me but does anyone think the Hayate is the way to go.

Seems like a very good deal compared to the Airblade and Nouvo. Am i giving up reliability

by going with the Hayate. I know the Honda and even the Yamaha will have better resale. Also

seems like the Hayate will be available with fuel injection another plus over the Nouvo.

[CMX]

Hayate is now available with fuel injection from Suzuki dealers. There are, you may know, many advocates of the Elegance, and you may well be flooded with responses stating their happy owners' views. I'm presently using its little Yamaha MX brother (no longer made) with a bigger frame and 16" tires but a small 115 engine. I find it great for shopping and my larger exterior. (But mine is a sad performer climbing hills, being old.)

Nevertheless, worldwide or here as well, there is nothing substantial in hard information to suggest that Zuki's are not made to very highest standards of all metric bikes produced by Japanese companies. I have a friend who bought one of their Shoguns (not then Fi) and (with overinflated tires and conservative driving habits) is getting well over 50km/l and has had NO problems in three years, aside from simple maintenance. But I dislike clutchless bikes in busy traffic, and chain maintenance.

It will not have escaped your attention that the Zuki's purchase price is around 49/52, depending on wheels. Personally, I'm considering one, presently hesitating because I yet to find out if an English manual is available (find GaryP's thread on the HayateFi - answer may turn up there). Seems silly, I suppose, but meanwhile I regard Fi with so much favor that it tips the scale for me. It can be argued that 125 with Fi may perform slightly better than a 135 cc in some circumstances, though that gets into a briar patch of dispute. Mileage should be better and storage is good, the step-through ease slightly better. An article on Motorcycles in Thailand, I think, claims that the new Hayate has a terrific suspension and achieves 120km/h "with ease."

Dealerships are very important - happily, I've very good ones here in Chiang Mai for both brands.

On the second-hand market, as you've probably extrapolated, the carbed Hayate should be cheaper yet than the Elegance.

Edited October 18, 2010 by CMX

[JusMe]

Dealerships are very important - happily, I've very good ones here in Chiang Mai for both brands.

I'll agree with CMX here. Depends on where you're living. If it's the boonies and you need some specified parts or service, you could be out of luck. Major centre, and no worries.

BTW, I'm a happy Nouvo Elegance owner.

[JusMe]

Dealerships are very important - happily, I've very good ones here in Chiang Mai for both brands.

I'll agree with CMX here. Depends on where you're living. If it's the boonies and you need some specified parts or service, you could be out of luck. Major centre, and no worries.

BTW, I'm a happy Nouvo Elegance owner.

[GarryP]

I bought the Hayate FI for my son nearly two months ago. Can't compare it to the Nouvo as I have never had one. My son really likes it and, as mentioned storage, is good. My only complaint (and this is very minor) it the placing of the pillion foot pegs. I feel they should have been a bit lower but then I have long legs. For example, sitting on the back of a Fino is torture to me.

[ignis]

Good someone that has ridden both bikes..

Please could you tell me is the Suzuki Hayate bigger is size than the Nouvo ?

Never seen the Suzuki Hayate, no one appear to stock them in my area, The Honda PCX is a better size for my body frame but still feel the present one is to expensive @ 70k, just to potter about around the local Villages.. have been told for months there will be a more basic model soon [do not need the stop/start. nearest traffic lights are 30 km away and the bike is not for going that distance]

Thanks

[golfho]

Good someone that has ridden both bikes..

Please could you tell me is the Suzuki Hayate bigger is size than the Nouvo ?

Never seen the Suzuki Hayate, no one appear to stock them in my area, The Honda PCX is a better size for my body frame but still feel the present one is to expensive @ 70k, just to potter about around the local Villages.. have been told for months there will be a more basic model soon [do not need the stop/start. nearest traffic lights are 30 km away and the bike is not for going that distance]

Thanks

The Suzuki felt a little lower and wider and more stable than the Nouvo. The Nouvo felt like it was more narrow, taller and maneuverable but not quite as stable. The Hayate was also very comfortable. These are just my impressions not based on bike specifications. I will say the Nouvo was thirsty (more so than the Hayate and Airblade) and i am very easy on the throttle.

[ignis]

Good someone that has ridden both bikes..

Please could you tell me is the Suzuki Hayate bigger is size than the Nouvo ?

Never seen the Suzuki Hayate, no one appear to stock them in my area, The Honda PCX is a better size for my body frame but still feel the present one is to expensive @ 70k, just to potter about around the local Villages.. have been told for months there will be a more basic model soon [do not need the stop/start. nearest traffic lights are 30 km away and the bike is not for going that distance]

Thanks

The Suzuki felt a little lower and wider and more stable than the Nouvo. The Nouvo felt like it was more narrow, taller and maneuverable but not quite as stable. The Hayate was also very comfortable. These are just my impressions not based on bike specifications. I will say the Nouvo was thirsty (more so than the Hayate and Airblade) and i am very easy on the throttle.

Many thanks, @ 20k cheaper than the PCX must be worth a look, now must try to find someone that sells them. Went to Nonthaburi over the weekend, felt sure there was a garage on that road from Bang Yai but did not see it.

[golfho]

Good someone that has ridden both bikes..

Please could you tell me is the Suzuki Hayate bigger is size than the Nouvo ?

Never seen the Suzuki Hayate, no one appear to stock them in my area, The Honda PCX is a better size for my body frame but still feel the present one is to expensive @ 70k, just to potter about around the local Villages.. have been told for months there will be a more basic model soon [do not need the stop/start. nearest traffic lights are 30 km away and the bike is not for going that distance]

Thanks

The Suzuki felt a little lower and wider and more stable than the Nouvo. The Nouvo felt like it was more narrow, taller and maneuverable but not quite as stable. The Hayate was also very comfortable. These are just my impressions not based on bike specifications. I will say the Nouvo was thirsty (more so than the Hayate and Airblade) and i am very easy on the throttle.

Many thanks, @ 20k cheaper than the PCX must be worth a look, now must try to find someone that sells them. Went to Nonthaburi over the weekend, felt sure there was a garage on that road from Bang Yai but did not see it.

Never drove/rented the PCX. Was way to fat/wide for me. Also a little overpriced in my opinion. The Thai Salesman i was talking to was laughing when i commented fat bike for fat farangs. Also handle bars feel cramped relative to other bikes. I am sure its a good, reliable bike but sometimes i think Honda tries to get by too much on their reputation/name and could do a little more in terms of performance/innovation.

[jackcorbett]

If you want my honest opinion there is no comparison between the Suzuki Hayate and the Yamaha Nouvo Elegance. The Suzuki is a cheaper knockoff that brings nothing new to the table except for a lower price. On the other hand the Honda PCX offers both advantages and disadvantages to the Elegance that make it a great alternative depending on what attributes one values the most. The PCX apparently offers great fuel economy and terrific range for this class along with the stability and comfort of large tires and greater weight. The Elegance is no doubt faster and it most definitely offers significantly greater cargo carrying capability.

I drove a neighbor's new Hayate when I had my old Nouvo air cooled 115 c.c. MX and could discern no power increase whatsoever with the larger 125 c.c. engine of the Suzuki over the smaller Yamaha engine and concluded that Yamaha simply made more horsepower for the same displacement. Appearance wise the Suzuki appeared to be a nearly identical twin except the Nouvo seemed more substantial and better detailed. Even the tires were the exact same specs and both bikes had the two small recessed areas in their small fairings that are suitable for sunglasses, cigarettes, gloves, etc. Other than a lower price, the Suzuki seemed to be offering nothing new to the table, merely copy catting Yamaha's engineering. Contrast this with Honda's Air Blade which offered liquid cooling and smaller diameter yet wider tires and a more closely coupled machine that offered quicker handling without giving up much if any stability over the longer wheel based Nouvo MX. The Honda also offered other innovations including better brakes.

Then I drove a friend's new Nouvo 135 c.c. Elegance. Not entirely broken in yet, accelerated like a rocket compared to the other machines I just mentioned. I bought my Elegance nearly a year later and even though it was brand spanking new, its 135 c.c. liquid cooled engine totally outclassed all these other machines in acceleration. Its brakes seemed far better than my 115 Nouvo MX had as well and I'd have to rate them as equal to the Air Blade. I noticed that the new Elegance was quicker steering than my MX and when I got a tape out I found that Yamaha had engineered the seat of the Elegance to be 2 inches closer to the front tire of the bike and two inches higher. Logically this means more leverage is applied to the bike in general and particularly to the front tire with smaller steering inputs supplied by the driver. And since the wheel base was as long as the Nouvo MX's straight line stability was not sacrificed. Needless to say I was very impressed by Yamaha's noticeable improvements to the brakes and its efforts to offer better handling.

Now, notice the differences in Yamaha's and Suzuki's specs. First, the Suzuki. Suzuki specs Note the 6 month warranty and the compression of 9.8 to 1. and the fact that although it has fuel injection it is also air cooled. Now note the specs for the Yamaha Elegance. Yamaha 135 c.c. Elegance specs Here's more from Wikipedia which provides a horsepower figure of 11.2 rather than the 11 provided in that other link as well as mentioning a 1 year or 10,000 km warranty. Wikipedia specs for Elegance Lastly, the compression ratio of the Nouvo Elegance is 10,8 to 1 compression ratio specs

And sure, the Yamaha has a carb with all the advantages and disadvantages of a carb but for what it is worth the Elegance now offers TBS or Throttle Body sensing to its carburetor whereas the air cooled MX didn't. To be sure, Yamaha has fuel injection other models its put on the world market so there has to be a good reason why they'd so far not introduced it on the Elegance. But it could in a heart beat. I don't see any way that a 125 c.c. air cooled Suzuki Hayate will accelerate with a 135 c.c. water cooled Elegance operating at higher compression ratio. The warranty is not as good. Also note that Yamaha is not very shy about releasing horsepower figures for its Elegance and that Suzuki and Honda is. I"d say Suzuki is playing follower to both Yamaha and Honda while offering a lower price as compensation for something that is not as well engineered.

[GarryP]

Actually I though it was Suzuki that brought the auto scooter to the Thai market. If I recall correctly Michael Owner was the brand rep so it goes back a few years. Rather than one copying the other, I believe they did a piss poor job of marketing, which they are only now addressing.

As to the actual specs, I know nothing so will leave it up to you people in the know to fight it out. All I know is my son is very happy with his Hayate and his only real complaint is that it is a bit heavy.

[jackcorbett]

Actually I though it was Suzuki that brought the auto scooter to the Thai market. If I recall correctly Michael Owner was the brand rep so it goes back a few years. Rather than one copying the other, I believe they did a piss poor job of marketing, which they are only now addressing.

As to the actual specs, I know nothing so will leave it up to you people in the know to fight it out. All I know is my son is very happy with his Hayate and his only real complaint is that it is a bit heavy.

.

Gary I still think you made a good purchase. The bike's got Japanese reliability. It will probably get better fuel economy than the Elegance. Honda's claiming it will get 50 km to the liter and Suzuki is claiming 46 plus. I don't think the Elegance will quite reach those numbers. And your son won't notice too much difference anyway. But we are still talking about who's the king of the hill right now and I think Yamaha and HOnda are and for this narrow sliver in time all in all, the Honda's got my beloved Nouvo Elegance edged out all things considered. But....at a higher cost. Nevertheless, we aren't talking ab out that much money. I expect Yamaha's next incarnation of the Nouvo to top Honda's present PCX. And then Honda will once again be on top down the road.

[Kwasaki]

l bought an Airblade not long after they came out for poddling around the village instead of using the big bike or truck for short journeys. My daughters got a Fino my wife a Mio. l like some Opera so l might change the blade for a Nouvo.

Then l could sing ' Fino mio nouvo ' the other don't fit in really.

What l always do is buy some l like the look of, style the right colours etc.

l think all the twist and go scooters are good because that what they are to me and that's what l call em.

The Waves etc like modern C90's l call ' Mopeds '.

[GarryP]

By the way my post should have said Michael Owen not Owner. To be honest, I looked at both PCX and Elegance but thought the former a bit too expensive (I know you get the fancy bells and whistles - but it was mainly to be used by my son who really was not interested in those things), so it was a toss up between the Elegance and the Hayate. I just decided to go with FI, as resale price was not an issue. If I had been looking for something that I anticipated selling after a couple of years then I would have gone for the Elegance.

Anyway, if they keep trying to top each other (I do not mean kill), then the people who benefit the most are us buyers, which is no bad thing.

[ignis]

If you want my honest opinion there is no comparison between the Suzuki Hayate and the Yamaha Nouvo Elegance. The Suzuki is a cheaper knockoff that brings nothing new to the table except for a lower price

There is only 2,xxx baht difference, so cannot see it as a 'cheaper knockoff'

For me the Yamaha Nouvo Elegance is off the list, as to narrow, to small, and I look silly on it.. The Honda PCX was a much better size, cannot say on riding on the open road as both only rode around the car-parks at the showrooms.

Suzuki Hayate is at the moment on the list, never seen one, but as 'golfho' reply post, the Suzuki Hayate is wider and bigger seat.

At the moment the Honda PCX is the top model, many features I do not need, if ever the more basic model arrives then that would be my bike, I cannot justify spending 70,000 baht on something I will ride maybe 3,000km year + would need a box and a new seat [very uncomfortable sat on that hump in the middle of the seat]

Again for 70k is the Tiger G-Max, which looks big

Also on the list is the Lifan LF125T-19, no idea on final price, looks big. but when will it be For Sale ?

Edited October 20, 2010 by ignis

[CMX]

Hi Jack,

Couple of things. I'm pretty sure that Suzuki (in Thailand, not always elsewhere) provides the three year/30,000 warranty that is common here these days. I was told so at the dealer and last year's Hayate brochure says so and their other models have done so too. Maybe your source was from elsewhere? (I've seen this with a number of models). I'll know for sure tomorrow.

Your neighbor's Hayate was about as zippy as your MX, you say. That's been my experience too, as I rented an older Hayate and I own an MX for shopping now (but have rented a newer carb'd model with zip). However, neither of us it seems has driven the new injected 'Zuki. As speculation, I'll agree though that the Elegance provides somewhat more power, given the specs, while the Hayate better mileage. Difference in price seems to be about 6,000 baht. And cooling is an issue, though when you consider air cooled bikes on the road ...

But I am not sure about characterizing the Hayate as a cheap knock-off. Price difference may be only 6,000 baht, but fuel injection typically has been more expensive; 'Zuki (competition) almost held the line.

As for the PCX, I like it for a lot of things, but as we discussed eons ago, it seems, those mirrors are equal to 5" wider than the Elegance - for me a nuisance when moving up to stoplights. Also, Honda really does know what it is doing and is taking PCX money by the load.

[jackcorbett]

Hi Jack,

Couple of things. I'm pretty sure that Suzuki (in Thailand, not always elsewhere) provides the three year/30,000 warranty that is common here these days. I was told so at the dealer and last year's Hayate brochure says so and their other models have done so too. Maybe your source was from elsewhere? (I've seen this with a number of models). I'll know for sure tomorrow.

Your neighbor's Hayate was about as zippy as your MX, you say. That's been my experience too, as I rented an older Hayate and I own an MX for shopping now (but have rented a newer carb'd model with zip). However, neither of us it seems has driven the new injected 'Zuki. As speculation, I'll agree though that the Elegance provides somewhat more power, given the specs, while the Hayate better mileage. Difference in price seems to be about 6,000 baht. And cooling is an issue, though when you consider air cooled bikes on the road ...

But I am not sure about characterizing the Hayate as a cheap knock-off. Price difference may be only 6,000 baht, but fuel injection typically has been more expensive; 'Zuki (competition) almost held the line.

As for the PCX, I like it for a lot of things, but as we discussed eons ago, it seems, those mirrors are equal to 5" wider than the Elegance - for me a nuisance when moving up to stoplights. Also, Honda really does know what it is doing and is taking PCX money by the load.

From what I am seeing is despite the big price difference Honda's PCX is outselling the Yamaha Nouvo Elegance big time here in Pattaya. Ever since the PCX came out I'm just not seeing many new Nouvos and rightly so. Ever since moving to Thailand I've been discovering more and more that unlike Western countries where the customer is always right and large companies do marketing analysis in order to do a better job of trying to fathom what the market really wants many Thai outfits are just clueless. Take the bar that plays Thai music or the latest two note dada music because the bar girls like it. But look around you, most of the customers are over fifty and no doubt hate the music but put up with it. Or the other day at Home Pro and I'm shopping for a mirror. I even have a measuring tape but at the critical moment when I want to measure two mirrors I'm interested in there's a worker cleaning all the mirrors. I have to wait five minutes and I'm the customer whereas he's only an employee. If the store was customer orientated the employee would tell the customer to have a look and when the customer was finished, thirty seconds later, the employee would finish cleaning the mirrors. Or the fact that in the entire Pattaya area I find it next to impossible to buy bathroom fixtures that are brass or bronze whereas in the U.S it seems that about 25 % of all fixtures offered come in brass or bronze not to mention other finishes other than chrome or stainless. Yet there are literally hundreds of styles and models, all in shiny chrome or stainless. A store that offered a better selection of finishes would clean up. So I don't know if it's the Thais dictating the color selections of bikes offered here or the Japanese. But for the most part all those decals and two tone, three tone paint jobs is so outrageously ugly that all the stray cats and soi dogs that used to hang out in our condo parking lot have all disappeared in search for a better neighborhood. Honda had some good color schemes on its Air Blades. And its PCX is refreshingly clear of all those two or three tone paint jobs and decals that make other bikes look like Indy 500 racing cars advertising STP oil, Penzoil, Good Year tires and whatever other ads their owners get for defacing their racing cars in pursuit of advertising dollars. Big tires equate to better ride, stability and safety so that's what Honda designed its PCX around. Having much longer cruising ranges is not only practical out in the country, it's nice to have in the city too because one is not always going about filling up his tank. And out in the city most drivers don't go faster than 70 kph or so. i think Honda designed its PCX around what most of its customers really need and want so it sacrificed top end speed to provide customers have until now not been getting. And there's a lot of large Western customers buying such bikes and a bigger bike such as the PCX suits such customers better. For once Honda has really caught the competition sleeping now that it is offering a relatively large, stable, smoother riding small engined bike with a clean attractive uncluttered look that isn't forcing its owners to be visiting the gas pumps nearly as often.

Edited October 20, 2010 by jackcorbett

[CMX]

Yes, I'm seeing many PCX's here up in the North as well, ridden by Thais. Also, a very large number of Scoopy models, which suggests to me inroads against Fino. Sales figures this year that I've seen seem to indicate that the hold that Honda has enjoyed here in the country has improved.

Maybe a year ago or so we participated in a thread about what was wrong with Honda's introductions of 110 models. In sales, they have surpassed expectations of many. Today, bikers wanting a different kind of 250's are annoyed by the delay of Honda's latest - or a replacement for the CBR150. I'm thinking Honda knows exactly what it is doing and has successfully introduced bikes that are being purchased right and left, making them money up and down their line. Their priorities, however, are selling to Thais. We in the foreign market are probably not worth considering very much, when you think of world-wide strategies.

On the other hand, I'm guessing that the Hayate is a sound, reliable, and efficient bike if it has the specs that one wants and you have a good dealer/repair option. And if one wants to be very refined in analyzing these things, cost efficient as well, excepting resale value.

Tell the truth, I may opt for one eventually, if I can ever confirm that there is a manual for it in English.

[GarryP]

For Bangkok, I seriously doubt that the PCX is outselling the Elegance. I see more about than I used to but still, quite rare when compared to the Elegance. Maybe people just have more money in Pataya.

PS but not as rare as the Hayate.

Edited October 20, 2010 by GarryP