Local Villagers Confront PAD Supporters In Surin

[afarang]

700 years ago the Angkor kingdom was what religion? When Angkor fell it was what religion? The people that sacked Angkor were what religion?

http://www.sacredsit...angkor_wat.html

Angkor Wat, built during the early years of the 12th century by Suryavaram II, honors the Hindu god Vishnu and is a symbolic representation of Hindu cosmology.

During half-millennia of Khmer occupation, the city of Angkor became a pilgrimage destination of importance throughout Southeastern Asia. Sacked by the Thais in 1431 and abandoned in 1432, Angkor was forgotten for a few centuries. Wandering Buddhist monks, passing through the dense jungles, occasionally came upon the awesome ruins. Recognizing the sacred nature of the temples but ignorant of their origins, they invented fables about the mysterious sanctuaries, saying they had been built by the gods in a far ancient time.

I would question the use of the "Sack", The word really means "To rape ,loot, pillage, plunder" .There is no evidence to suggest the Thais did any of this. They did indeed invade, maybe conquered, but never occupied. Why ? I don't think anybody knows. But Angkor Wat was abandoned a year after the Thai invasion.And left to the jungle

[473geo]

So any experts out there can make anything of these photos.......one interesting point, there is a field of flowers behind these structural remains, also the structure has these large boulders surrounding the building site.

Dare i ask, where are we going with this?

Just a question for the temple experts on the thread who are keen to impart information, I genuinely would appreciate the thoughts as to what the photos represent as I personally have no idea.........I thought I might add some real meaning to a thread which has been accused of having no substance.. .

[jayboy]

You seem to be saying that the majority of Bangkok residents are Chinese Tha1. This is not correct. Further I just called one of my work colleagues who attended a large number of the early PAD rallies, she quickly and strongly disagreed with the suggestion that the majoriy of PAD attendees were Chinese Thai.

Yes and if you would like me to be more precise I would maintain that a majority of middle class Bangkok was of Chinese or mixed Thai-Chinese ancestry.

The quick response of your PAD friend made me laugh because it's so typical of the Sino-Thai response when asked if they are Chinese.Most astute foreigners know about this, obviously not you.

And incidentally over much in your post there can be a reasonable discussion, but it is a cast iron fact that most PAD supporters were Sino-Thai, along with their criminal and fascist leadership.

Finally one thing needs to be made clear that at the beginning at least there were many decent PAD camp followers disgusted by Thaksin's greed and authoritarianism.I would never mock their motives but only the gullible and foolish (as well of course as the hyper nationalists, fascists, racists) stayed with the movement over the long term.

[Thaddeus]

So any experts out there can make anything of these photos.......one interesting point, there is a field of flowers behind these structural remains, also the structure has these large boulders surrounding the building site.

Dare i ask, where are we going with this?

Just a question for the temple experts on the thread who are keen to impart information, I genuinely would appreciate the thoughts as to what the photos represent as I personally have no idea.........I thought I might add some real meaning to a thread which has been accused of having no substance.. .

The last image looks like a mill stone for making flour from rice.

[jdinasia]

You seem to be saying that the majority of Bangkok residents are Chinese Tha1. This is not correct. Further I just called one of my work colleagues who attended a large number of the early PAD rallies, she quickly and strongly disagreed with the suggestion that the majoriy of PAD attendees were Chinese Thai.

Yes and if you would like me to be more precise I would maintain that a majority of middle class Bangkok was of Chinese or mixed Thai-Chinese ancestry.

The quick response of your PAD friend made me laugh because it's so typical of the Sino-Thai response when asked if they are Chinese.Most astute foreigners know about this, obviously not you.

And incidentally over much in your post there can be a reasonable discussion, but it is a cast iron fact that most PAD supporters were Sino-Thai, along with their criminal and fascist leadership.

Finally one thing needs to be made clear that at the beginning at least there were many decent PAD camp followers disgusted by Thaksin's greed and authoritarianism.I would never mock their motives but only the gullible and foolish (as well of course as the hyper nationalists, fascists, racists) stayed with the movement over the long term.

Jayboy is amazing ....!

He states with 100% certitude that "most PAD supporters were Sino-Thai, along with their criminal and fascist leadership."

Hmmmm Thaksin? Sino-Thai? His buddies? Mostly the same. The cannon fodder he puts out on the street ... NOT Sino-Thai! I remember Thaksin saying when the first bullet was fired he would be right there with his followers facing down the government and the army. In fact none of the red leadership trotted out to the front lines. When one did out by Don Mueang, he quickly ran and hid in a McDonalds.

The PAD leadership certainly aren't angels, but they aren't the cowards that you see with the Reds. They were walking out front. They turned themselves in when arrest warrants were issued (granted they didn't all go at once! but they all went! and it was the top couple that went first!)

Finally, Jayboy's (racist?) claims that they were ALL Sino-Thai (or worse yet MIXED Sino-Thai!) flies in the face of reality just from people I personally know who were and some who still are involved with the PAD.

Jayboy likes to talk in absolutes about large numbers of people. I prefer to talk in absolutes ONLY about individuals. After that it is .... well ... what was the word he used? Racist?

[473geo]

So any experts out there can make anything of these photos.......one interesting point, there is a field of flowers behind these structural remains, also the structure has these large boulders surrounding the building site.

Dare i ask, where are we going with this?

Just a question for the temple experts on the thread who are keen to impart information, I genuinely would appreciate the thoughts as to what the photos represent as I personally have no idea.........I thought I might add some real meaning to a thread which has been accused of having no substance.. .

The last image looks like a mill stone for making flour from rice.

Could be right Thaddeus, I wondered given the hilly and stony environment if it was possible the stone was used to crush rocks containing some sort of ore......I say this because the other photograph shows what appears to be a furnace.

[473geo]

Here is a 2.5 metre boulder placed for what reason? surely not decorative?

[jdinasia]

http://www.sacredsit...angkor_wat.html

Angkor Wat, built during the early years of the 12th century by Suryavaram II, honors the Hindu god Vishnu and is a symbolic representation of Hindu cosmology.

During half-millennia of Khmer occupation, the city of Angkor became a pilgrimage destination of importance throughout Southeastern Asia. Sacked by the Thais in 1431 and abandoned in 1432, Angkor was forgotten for a few centuries. Wandering Buddhist monks, passing through the dense jungles, occasionally came upon the awesome ruins. Recognizing the sacred nature of the temples but ignorant of their origins, they invented fables about the mysterious sanctuaries, saying they had been built by the gods in a far ancient time.

The Angkor Kingdom went Buddhist around 1180 I think, then back to Hindu, then Buddhist permanently later on ( the late1200's I think --- 700+ years ago Angkor Thom (part of the vast Angkor Wat temple sites -- was Buddhist. It was built in the late 12th early 13th centuries C.E. Honestly, I'd have to look the dates up but by the 1300's Angkor was Buddhist

also from the site listed above -------

Unlike other temples at Angkor, Ta Prohm has been left as it was found, preserved as an example of what a tropical forest will do to an architectural monument when the protective hands of humans are withdrawn. Ta Prohm's walls, roofs, chambers and courtyards have been sufficiently repaired to stop further deterioration, and the inner sanctuary has been cleared of bushes and thick undergrowth, but the temple has been left in the stranglehold of trees. Having planted themselves centuries ago, the tree's serpentine roots pry apart the ancient stones and their immense trunks straddle the once bustling Buddhist temple. Built in the later part of the 12^th century by Jayavarman VII, Ta Prohm is the terrestrial counterpart of the star Eta Draconis the Draco constellation.

[whybother]

If the Thais had "stolen it in the last few years" I think it would be more in the news that Phrear Vihear temple. I'm sure it was Khmer in the past, but probably not Cambodian for a couple of hundred years.

'but probably not Cambodian for a couple of hundred years.' Do you have any verification of that?

This is a map from 1885. I understand Thailand (Siam) controlled the area since the 1500's. The borders were redrawn in 1904/1907.

http://www.websitesrcg.com/border/maps/indochina-c1885.jpg

[Thaddeus]

The Angkor Kingdom went Buddhist around 1180 I think, then back to Hindu, then Buddhist permanently later on ( the late1200's I think --- 700+ years ago Angkor Thom (part of the vast Angkor Wat temple sites -- was Buddhist. It was built in the late 12th early 13th centuries C.E. Honestly, I'd have to look the dates up but by the 1300's Angkor was Buddhist

And the Romans have always been Catholic haven't they.

Sorry JD, but all the temples in this region are Hindu in origin, maybe they did have some people of a different belief system in or surrounding them later, but they are Hindu temples non the less.

Angkor Thom is a Buddhist temple but retains elements of Hindu cosmology and imagery. Which would mean that they hadn't made up their minds yet, not yet truly Buddhist, and out of all the people who read or contribute to this forum you probably have the best grip on what not being really Buddhist yet means.

[whybother]

The Angkor Kingdom went Buddhist around 1180 I think, then back to Hindu, then Buddhist permanently later on ( the late1200's I think --- 700+ years ago Angkor Thom (part of the vast Angkor Wat temple sites -- was Buddhist. It was built in the late 12th early 13th centuries C.E. Honestly, I'd have to look the dates up but by the 1300's Angkor was Buddhist

And the Romans have always been Catholic haven't they.

Sorry JD, but all the temples in this region are Hindu in origin, maybe they did have some people of a different belief system in or surrounding them later, but they are Hindu temples non the less.

Angkor Thom is a Buddhist temple but retains elements of Hindu cosmology and imagery. Which would mean that they hadn't made up their minds yet, not yet truly Buddhist, and out of all the people who read or contribute to this forum you probably have the best grip on what not being really Buddhist yet means.

There were a number of temples built during the reign of Jayavarman VII (1181 - 1218) who was Buddhist. But given the links between Buddhism and Hinduism, there is bound to be many similarities between any temples built during the Angkor period.

[jayboy]

You seem to be saying that the majority of Bangkok residents are Chinese Tha1. This is not correct. Further I just called one of my work colleagues who attended a large number of the early PAD rallies, she quickly and strongly disagreed with the suggestion that the majoriy of PAD attendees were Chinese Thai.

Yes and if you would like me to be more precise I would maintain that a majority of middle class Bangkok was of Chinese or mixed Thai-Chinese ancestry.

The quick response of your PAD friend made me laugh because it's so typical of the Sino-Thai response when asked if they are Chinese.Most astute foreigners know about this, obviously not you.

And incidentally over much in your post there can be a reasonable discussion, but it is a cast iron fact that most PAD supporters were Sino-Thai, along with their criminal and fascist leadership.

Finally one thing needs to be made clear that at the beginning at least there were many decent PAD camp followers disgusted by Thaksin's greed and authoritarianism.I would never mock their motives but only the gullible and foolish (as well of course as the hyper nationalists, fascists, racists) stayed with the movement over the long term.

Jayboy is amazing ....!

He states with 100% certitude that "most PAD supporters were Sino-Thai, along with their criminal and fascist leadership."

Hmmmm Thaksin? Sino-Thai? His buddies? Mostly the same. The cannon fodder he puts out on the street ... NOT Sino-Thai! I remember Thaksin saying when the first bullet was fired he would be right there with his followers facing down the government and the army. In fact none of the red leadership trotted out to the front lines. When one did out by Don Mueang, he quickly ran and hid in a McDonalds.

The PAD leadership certainly aren't angels, but they aren't the cowards that you see with the Reds. They were walking out front. They turned themselves in when arrest warrants were issued (granted they didn't all go at once! but they all went! and it was the top couple that went first!)

Finally, Jayboy's (racist?) claims that they were ALL Sino-Thai (or worse yet MIXED Sino-Thai!) flies in the face of reality just from people I personally know who were and some who still are involved with the PAD.

Jayboy likes to talk in absolutes about large numbers of people. I prefer to talk in absolutes ONLY about individuals. After that it is .... well ... what was the word he used? Racist?

I don't understand this post.Was it composed under the influence? No problem with that (we've all been there on a Saturday night) but just trying to understand why so incoherent.

Anyway where to begin.Yes Thaksin is obviously of Chinese ethnicity.So what.

Why are you talking about cowardice? A bad person can be brave:a good person can be fearful.What's it got to do with the price of eggs?

The ethnic make up of the PAD movement and leadership is a matter of record.Why is it "racist" to point the obvious out?

If you are intellectually unable to make the transition from the empirical to drawing considered judgements, I can't be of help.Perhaps you should concentrate on what you do best - making hysterical rants about foreign journalists who point out home truths.

Edited October 31, 2010 by jayboy

[whybother]

<snip>

The ethnic make up of the PAD movement and leadership is a matter of record.Why is it "racist" to point the obvious out?

<snip>

Where is the ethnic make up of the PAD movement and leadership stated as a matter of record.?

Edited October 31, 2010 by whybother

[jayboy]

<snip>

The ethnic make up of the PAD movement and leadership is a matter of record.Why is it "racist" to point the obvious out?

<snip>

Where is the ethnic make up of the PAD movement and leadership stated as a matter of record.?

Give me strength.It's like teaching physics to a hamster.

[whybother]

<snip>

The ethnic make up of the PAD movement and leadership is a matter of record.Why is it "racist" to point the obvious out?

<snip>

Where is the ethnic make up of the PAD movement and leadership stated as a matter of record.?

Give me strength.It's like teaching physics to a hamster.

Come on. You state it's a matter of record. Where?

[jayboy]

<snip>

The ethnic make up of the PAD movement and leadership is a matter of record.Why is it "racist" to point the obvious out?

<snip>

Where is the ethnic make up of the PAD movement and leadership stated as a matter of record.?

Give me strength.It's like teaching physics to a hamster.

Come on. You state it's a matter of record. Where?

If you really don't understand what a "matter of record" means, I doubt whether I can help you.

If I said it's a matter of record that most rural supporters of the Red movement are from the North and North-East, it doesn't have to be "stated" in some document.It probably is but that's not the point.

[whybother]

If you really don't understand what a "matter of record" means, I doubt whether I can help you.

If I said it's a matter of record that most rural supporters of the Red movement are from the North and North-East, it doesn't have to be "stated" in some document.It probably is but that's not the point.

OK. Every second news report points out where most red shirt supporters come from.

Can you please point me to anywhere that it states what the ethnic make up of the PAD is?

[jayboy]

If you really don't understand what a "matter of record" means, I doubt whether I can help you.

If I said it's a matter of record that most rural supporters of the Red movement are from the North and North-East, it doesn't have to be "stated" in some document.It probably is but that's not the point.

OK. Every second news report points out where most red shirt supporters come from.

Can you please point me to anywhere that it states what the ethnic make up of the PAD is?

I suggest you refer to the Thai scholar Michael Nelson, lately of Chula who has written on this subject.It's not actually a very controversial subject (remember the sons of China banners at the PAD rallies) so I have no real idea why you are agonising about it.Bangkok is to a significant degree a Chinese city with the majority of long term residents of Chinese or mixed Chinese ancestry.All would rightly describe themselves as "Thai" but the higher up the social and income scale (the PAD core grouping) the more Chinese they become.

[scorecard]

<snip>

The ethnic make up of the PAD movement and leadership is a matter of record.Why is it "racist" to point the obvious out?

<snip>

Where is the ethnic make up of the PAD movement and leadership stated as a matter of record.?

Give me strength.It's like teaching physics to a hamster.

Because you get challenged again and again by your claim that it's an absolute fact that the PAD are Chinese-Thai or descendants of Chinese-Thai, etc., you resort to nasty comments about hamsters. Not exactly an adult response.

Well I repeat the challenge that you produce some absolute facts that prove your claims that:

1. The majority of Bangkok residents are mostly Chinese-Thai, and

2. The PAD is Chinese-Thai or descenants etc., of Chinese-Thai

Earlier today I did some further reearch about the first point, I'll reveal that after you answer the challenge and provide some facts.

[Buchholz]

It's his Standard Operating Procedure, scorecard:

This and your subsequent comments suggest, along with your bar room style of discussion ...

TheyCallmeScooter, if this is your first bit of communication with jayboy you'll soon realise he is quick to draw parallels to the bar scene with any argument which contrasts with his own. I presume the intent is to try and intimidate people by giving the perception of dealing with an intellectual superpower standing head and shoulders above the lay Thaivisa forum dweller.

(as well as the few semi educated saloon bar experts on this forum).