€250,000 Benefit Fraud

[Bizz]

Man remanded over €250,000 benefit fraud

A 63-year-old man accused of social welfare fraud totalling nearly €250,000 has been further remanded in custody.

1 of 1 Mullingar District Court - man remanded in custody

Mullingar District Court - man remanded in custody

A 63-year-old man accused of social welfare fraud totalling nearly €250,000 has been further remanded in custody.

Mullingar District Court was told that the Director of Public Prosecutions had not yet made a decision on the case against Paul Murray who has an address in Thailand.

A previous court hearing was told that since 2006 Mr Murray would fly back to Ireland every three months to sign on for various benefits at social welfare offices in Cavan, Trim and Mullingar.

My link

[ukrules]

I once got a speeding ticket in Mullingar, it was before they introduced 'points' on the licenses a few years back so it was irrelevant.

[Beetlejuice]

If the Irishman had enough money to fly back and forth from Thailand to Ireland every three months, there is no doubts that he would have been obtaining extra income either from working or criminal activities in Thailand. It is unlikely that the amount of money paid in social security benefits abroad would have funded his airfares and lifestyle in Thailand.

I have known 2 persons that committed benefit fraud and presently know of 1 person who is committing benefit fraud, first 2 were tumbled and now owned, the later is presently under investigation, including a friend who let him use his address for correspondence and as a supposed residence.. All were caught when officers of the Department of Social Security in England done a routine call to the addresses the fraudsters claimed to be living.

The DSS investigates if a claimant is listed on any electoral rolls, bills, Inland Revenue, mobile phone accounts, telephone accounts, bank accounts, credit cards, renting agreement or mortgage lists for the accommodation. If none of these check out, they cease payments and an investigation begins. After which the claimant is on borrowed time.

Also if you are a fraudster, be wary of any facebook profiles or social networking sites you subscribe to, because they check these as well.

So if you’re going to defraud the taxpayer, you had better know what you are doing, keeping in mind that these people are no fools.

[GuestHouse]

Introducing a bounty system for reporting fraud might be a good idea.

[beano2274]

Come on many of us know people who abuse the system in the UK.

I know of a guy in Thailand who collects disability allowance, he uses an address in Europe, gets his friends there to send him the documentation, to sign, he fills it out, sends it back to his friends, and they send it to the UK. His Bank send him the allowance when it gets paid into his account, part of it stays there. Disability allowance is only payable in EU Countries.

But people in the UK abuse the system too, my friend had never worked since leaving school, he claimed he had loads of injuries that stopped him from working, he gets the letters from a doctor to help him. He gets loads of benefit, and was happy fixing cars for his friends in the drive way of his council house (paid for by the DHSS), when the inspectors came around he told them he was just informing his friend on what he needed to do to repair the car, and would not undertake the repairs by himself. As soon as the inspectors left he was fixing the car, he lives with my Aunt, who has never worked since leaving school, another one who claims everything, but a single mother of 2 (44 years old).

If the DHSS or whatever it is called now really wanted to check they could and it would save a lot of money. And a lot of people would be either working or in jail for Fraud.

If they brought out a "squeal on your mates" line, maybe a few people would be caught, but I doubt it.

Edited November 5, 2010 by beano2274

[beano2274]

I personally do not think they would check Facebook profiles, as if you search for a name it comes up with many hits, then if you search a town which one do they enter, they do not know where you really are, I could be in Thailand but registered in Yeovil, but they would only search Yeovil.

If after a lot of searching they found the right name, how do they know it is that person, there are photos on the facebook site, but the DHSS does not know what the person actually looks like.

My Aunt and her BF are on Facebook at the same time, two computers in the house, but the DHSS has not noticed this, or the fact they have just purchased two expensive puppies. Or the fact that there are two cars outside the house.

Edited November 5, 2010 by beano2274

[Beetlejuice]

I personally do not think they would check Facebook profiles, as if you search for a name it comes up with many hits, then if you search a town which one do they enter, they do not know where you really are, I could be in Thailand but registered in Yeovil, but they would only search Yeovil.

If after a lot of searching they found the right name, how do they know it is that person, there are photos on the facebook site, but the DHSS does not know what the person actually looks like.

My Aunt and her BF are on Facebook at the same time, two computers in the house, but the DHSS has not noticed this, or the fact they have just purchased two expensive puppies. Or the fact that there are two cars outside the house.

Benefit fraudsters caught on facebook:

http://benefitfraud.blogspot.com/2010/05/benefits-thief-caught-through-her.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/6851905/Benefits-fraudster-caught-on-Facebook.html

http://www.shropshirestar.com/news/2010/08/18/the-shropshire-benefits-cheat-caught-on-facebook/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1209661/Benefit-cheat-rumbled-Facebook-boasts-living-rich-life.html

[Beetlejuice]

Anyone that depends on an income by stealing from the tax payer, fraud or criminal activities, had better make sure he/she is a real professional at the game and cover their asses well, do not rely on luck alone that the departments involved won`t twig on or someone doesn`t grass you up.

If you get away with it, good luck to you, but don`t forget to keep looking over that shoulder and watch out behind you.

Oh yes, nearly forgot, be careful what you say and to whom, you never know who your enemies are until they stab you in the back.

This is fine for those who want to live their lives this way.

Edited November 5, 2010 by Beetlejuice

[thaimate]

AS for facebook ,just make everything private so only your close friends can read your page ,personally i think its a load of rubbish .

[Englander]

Ireland is imminently going to go bankrupt, and the economy will soon be ran by the IMF or Germans (the irony), it'll put a stop to what is the most generous benefits system im aware of.

Here is a good article.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/ambroseevans-pritchard/100008461/ireland-is-running-out-of-time/

[Englander]

But people in the UK abuse the system too.

Theyre called politicians and they all got off scot free ... but good look to any indigenous Irish/Brits scamming the system.

[Jimi007]

Come on many of us know people who abuse the system in the UK.

I know of a guy in Thailand who collects disability allowance, he uses an address in Europe, gets his friends there to send him the documentation, to sign, he fills it out, sends it back to his friends, and they send it to the UK. His Bank send him the allowance when it gets paid into his account, part of it stays there. Disability allowance is only payable in EU Countries.

But people in the UK abuse the system too, my friend had never worked since leaving school, he claimed he had loads of injuries that stopped him from working, he gets the letters from a doctor to help him. He gets loads of benefit, and was happy fixing cars for his friends in the drive way of his council house (paid for by the DHSS), when the inspectors came around he told them he was just informing his friend on what he needed to do to repair the car, and would not undertake the repairs by himself. As soon as the inspectors left he was fixing the car, he lives with my Aunt, who has never worked since leaving school, another one who claims everything, but a single mother of 2 (44 years old).

If the DHSS or whatever it is called now really wanted to check they could and it would save a lot of money. And a lot of people would be either working or in jail for Fraud.

If they brought out a "squeal on your mates" line, maybe a few people would be caught, but I doubt it.

Interesting that disability is only payable if you are in a EU country. I went on California State Disability in the USA, it's actually insurance that you and your employers pay into and I told them I was going back to my home in Thailand in writing. They said no problem, just check in every two weeks by phone. They also had me fax them a medical report form time to time, filled out by my Thai doctor. The insurance only pays for one year though. I have now applied for Social Security Disability through the US Embassy and was contacted by their Manilla office. I'm still dealing with them on the matter. Both government offices have my Thailand address and phone number as well as my email address. So, it's all on the up and up, perfectly legal...

[inmysights]

Introducing a bounty system for reporting fraud might be a good idea.

You sound as though you would would've liked to join the Stasi.

I hate this 'grassing up' mentality. It's up to the individual government agencies to carry out proper checks. Not Sun/Mail readers like you.

And no, I am not in receipt of any government benefits.

Mind your own bloody business. If you want to do your 'Christian/Citizen's duty, (or whatever excuse you have for sticking your oar in'), go do some work for charity. Yuk.

Edited November 5, 2010 by inmysights

[jayboy]

Introducing a bounty system for reporting fraud might be a good idea.

You sound as though you would would've liked to join the Stasi.

I hate this 'grassing up' mentality. It's up to the individual government agencies to carry out proper checks. Not Sun/Mail readers like you.

And no, I am not in receipt of any government benefits.

Mind your own bloody business. If you want to do your 'Christian/Citizen's duty, (or whatever excuse you have for sticking your oar in'), go do some work for charity. Yuk.

I agree with GuestHouse.Benefits fraud is just another theft crime, ultimately paid for by taxpayers.If I saw some thug rob a post office, I would inform the police without a moment's hesitation.Why should welfare theft be any different?

I couldn't care less about your problems with "grassing up" being neither a member of the criminal classes nor in any sense obligated to the criminal scroungers

[GuestHouse]

Introducing a bounty system for reporting fraud might be a good idea.

You sound as though you would would've liked to join the Stasi.

I hate this 'grassing up' mentality. It's up to the individual government agencies to carry out proper checks. Not Sun/Mail readers like you.

And no, I am not in receipt of any government benefits.

Mind your own bloody business. If you want to do your 'Christian/Citizen's duty, (or whatever excuse you have for sticking your oar in'), go do some work for charity. Yuk.

Did you say go work for Charity?

Nah, I do my bit already, I pay my taxes.

Listen up, if you want to put your hand in my pay cheque to support yourself on 'welfare' then I say all well and good, provided you are legally entitled to claim.

If you are screwing the system, you are screwing money out of my pay cheque - If you don't like my attitude get out of my pay cheque.

----

But I've not missed your point, in Hand-Out Britain where every low lifer that puts his hand out for what s/he's 'Entitled' too, knows their rights but has no knowledge of their responsibilities, we've now arrived at the point where someone complaining about benefit fraud is likened to a member of the Stasi.

The sickening truth of all this is that wide spread fraud by people who are very capable of working and providing for themselves is fast undermining the whole welfare system.

Every piece of scum screwing the system is one step closer to the loss of wide public support of the welfare system. The losers then will be the people who genuinely need welfare support.

Reporting welfare fraud is not sticking one's nose in, it's far closer to being a public service.

Edited November 5, 2010 by GuestHouse

[midasthailand]

Introducing a bounty system for reporting fraud might be a good idea.

You sound as though you would would've liked to join the Stasi.

I hate this 'grassing up' mentality. It's up to the individual government agencies to carry out proper checks. Not Sun/Mail readers like you.

And no, I am not in receipt of any government benefits.

Mind your own bloody business. If you want to do your 'Christian/Citizen's duty, (or whatever excuse you have for sticking your oar in'), go do some work for charity. Yuk.

Did you say go work for Charity?

Nah, I do my bit already, I pay my taxes.

Listen up, if you want to put your hand in my pay cheque to support yourself on 'welfare' then I say all well and good, provided you are legally entitled to claim.

If you are screwing the system, you are screwing money out of my pay cheque - If you don't like my attitude get out of my pay cheque.

----

But I've not missed your point, in Hand-Out Britain where every low lifer that puts his hand out for what s/he's 'Entitled' too, knows their rights but has no knowledge of their responsibilities, we've now arrived at the point where someone complaining about benefit fraud is likened to a member of the Stasi.

The sickening truth of all this is that wide spread fraud by people who are very capable of working and providing for themselves is fast undermining the whole welfare system.

Every piece of scum screwing the system is one step closer to the loss of wide public support of the welfare system. The losers then will be the people who genuinely need welfare support.

Reporting welfare fraud is not sticking one's nose in, it's far closer to being a public service.

Couldn't agree more!!

[beano2274]

For Jimi007

from the www.direct.gov.uk website, remember I was talking about UK Allowances not American.

Going abroad to live or visit

If you are going to live abroad permanently you cannot usually get Disability Living Allowance.

If you move to another country in the European Economic Area (EEA) or Switzerland and you already receive the care component of Disability Living Allowance, you may continue to get it under certain circumstances.

If your visit abroad is temporary, you may continue to get Disability Living Allowance if:

* your absence from Great Britain does not last more than 26 weeks (this includes going on holiday)

* your absence is only to get medical treatment for a condition which began before leaving Great Britain

added

The European Court of Justice decided in October 2007 that certain disability benefits are sickness benefits and may be paid to people who have left the UK to live elsewhere in the European Economic Area (EEA) or Switzerland.

Edited November 5, 2010 by beano2274

[mca]

I reckon the government should instigate a series of tests as to the physical status of benefit claiming invalids. No pussyfooting around.

Case One: Male. 37. Fell 2 feet off a ladder at work and hasn't worked since claiming "No feeling whatsoever in legs"

Test: Industrial rivet gun fired through both kneecaps.

Case Two: Female. Single. 10 kids. 33 years old. Hasn't worked since leaving school and dropping her first bastard. Claims cannot work due to " Dizzy spells means cannot walk more than 10 feet."

Test. Lock in a burning room. Key in the door 15 feet away. Rescue at the very last minute if it becomes clear she's not lying.

[mogoso]

Sounds like there is some fraud in the system in the UK. How about 15 million illegal immigrants with a huge portion claiming gov't benefits without having ever worked in the US. Many mothers claiming benefits saying husband left me, while husband works without paying taxes and drive home in his SUV and drives his wife to the store to get gov't approved purchases for children while paying cash for the beer cigs etc

I listen to their comments how little regard they have for the US and it's citizens and saying just how stupid we are as a people while they live off a system that won't even send anyone out to verify anything as there are just too many people to service in office, and no pressure from the top to do it.

[MAJIC]

Come on many of us know people who abuse the system in the UK.

I know of a guy in Thailand who collects disability allowance, he uses an address in Europe, gets his friends there to send him the documentation, to sign, he fills it out, sends it back to his friends, and they send it to the UK. His Bank send him the allowance when it gets paid into his account, part of it stays there. Disability allowance is only payable in EU Countries.

But people in the UK abuse the system too, my friend had never worked since leaving school, he claimed he had loads of injuries that stopped him from working, he gets the letters from a doctor to help him. He gets loads of benefit, and was happy fixing cars for his friends in the drive way of his council house (paid for by the DHSS), when the inspectors came around he told them he was just informing his friend on what he needed to do to repair the car, and would not undertake the repairs by himself. As soon as the inspectors left he was fixing the car, he lives with my Aunt, who has never worked since leaving school, another one who claims everything, but a single mother of 2 (44 years old).

If the DHSS or whatever it is called now really wanted to check they could and it would save a lot of money. And a lot of people would be either working or in jail for Fraud.

If they brought out a "squeal on your mates" line, maybe a few people would be caught, but I doubt it.

Thats been done already for at least 8 years,and they advertise the squeal line "Hotline" on prime time TV in the UK.

last year alone they nabbed over 35,000 fraudsters.

Part of the Department of Works and Pensions, personally even though they should be reported for what is theft,and I know some who are milking the system,from Thailand.

But somehow I can't find it in me to shop them,especially as they have Wive's and Children,who would be the real ones' to suffer.

How many of us,hand on heart could say they would not cheat the system? even if it meant their families would collapse into Poverty??????

I've got no sympathy for the Singles in Thailand,and their bogus illnesses, and false claims,doing the same though,just because they want a free... (paid for by the UK taxpayer)...Extended/Permanent Holiday they never worked for.

Their Motto is: ................"Its not if we catch you,its when"must be Scary for some,living under that threat hanging over them!

Edited November 5, 2010 by MAJIC

[philw]

Introducing a bounty system for reporting fraud might be a good idea.

You sound as though you would would've liked to join the Stasi.

I hate this 'grassing up' mentality. It's up to the individual government agencies to carry out proper checks. Not Sun/Mail readers like you.

And no, I am not in receipt of any government benefits.

Mind your own bloody business. If you want to do your 'Christian/Citizen's duty, (or whatever excuse you have for sticking your oar in'), go do some work for charity. Yuk.

I agree with GuestHouse.Benefits fraud is just another theft crime, ultimately paid for by taxpayers.If I saw some thug rob a post office, I would inform the police without a moment's hesitation.Why should welfare theft be any different?

I couldn't care less about your problems with "grassing up" being neither a member of the criminal classes nor in any sense obligated to the criminal scroungers

Dead right.

Most of us have to work.

[Spee]

No big surprise. Any place that offers a "free lunch" is bound to have people trying to scam it. The bigger the potential yield, the larger and more extensive the scams will be. Welfare fraud is a booming business anywhere in the US that has been innundated with illegals. In pure dollar value, welfare fraud in Florida exceeds the illegal narcotics trade by a couple of zeros, billions rather than millions.

The solution is not to try to pinch all the fraudsters, or get their neighbors and friends to rat them out. All this does is cause the government bureacracy to balloon, more people to hand it out and more people to do detective work. The solution is to descope and defund the programs, to take the money from the hands of politicians and, with exception of extreme cases, let local charities, communities and families give people the assistance they need.

Completely agree with others who suggest the social networks are now one of the first stops on the investigation trail. Information that is provided not only provides a trail, but any information not locked down is a sellable commodity for the site owner. There's a reason that security settings on social sites have a default setting of essentially no privacy at all.

[Bizz]

Ireland pays out over 21 billion on welfare every year for a population of 4.5 million,

welfare is the largest portion of yearly budget i.e. paying out nearly 50 billion,

taking in 36 billion we have to find close on 15 billion savings in the next 4 years 6 billion next year to start.

old-age pension also under the hammer.

personally I'm glad he was caught and hopefully a lot more.

[scorecard]

There are of course people in all societies who think it's really smart / really clever / really cool to cheat on welfare benfits etc etc.

There are also many in all societies who have the opposite view, honest sincere people who take what they are entitled to and nothing more and who are well aware that taxes taken from their hard earned wages and salaries are a few percentage points higher because of fraud / because of people who have no morals.

In other words, cheaters who are in reality ripping off their neighbors.

Edited November 6, 2010 by scorecard

[scorecard]

Have you ever wondered why health insurance is so costly in Thailand?

Well here's one reason; twenty plus years ago I came to Bkk to live, on the first day I moved into an apartment I was approached by a very bold farang who asked to borrow all my personal documents for a few hours: passport, credit cards, airline ticket stubs and any other documents with my name on it.

I was shocked at his boldness to even ask me, I refused and asked him to leave. A few days later I learned he had survived in Bkk for many years on all sorts of fraud, mainly insurance fraud but especially mainstream health insurance and health aspects of travel insurance, and credit card fraud.

A couple of years later he was sentended to 3 years in jail, here in Bkk, but was out within a few weeks and came back to his same apartment and got on with his 'trade'. Then it came to light that another farang had kept it all rolling for him whilst he was in Jail.

A few years later again he was deported.

Where is he now / what's he doing? Who knows, but I guess there's a fair chance he's still in the same 'trade'.

I say again, have you ever wondered why health insurance is so costly in Thailand, or put it the other way, why do you and I pay premiums which are higher than perhaps it could /should be?