Agency Needed To Deal With Sinking Bangkok

[webfact]

Agency needed to deal with ‘sinking Bangkok’

By Janjira Pongrai

Chularat Saengpassa

The Nation

Academics yesterday urged the government to set up an agency to determine specifically how to save Bangkok when it sinks to sea level.

Seawater, they said, is expected to reach Bangkok’s ground level in the next 25 years.

“Our findings have predicted what is coming. The question now is how the government will prepare for this,” said Dr Chalermchon Satirapod, a researcher in the GEO2TECDI (GEodetic Earth Observation Technologies for Thailand: Environmental Change Detection and Investigation) project.

Chalermchon, a lecturer in Chulalongkorn University’s faculty of engineering, believes all parties concerned should look at how the Netherlands deals efficiently with such a problem.

Geology lecturer Thanawat Jarupongsakul recommended flood-tax collection and insurance to set up a fund for flood compensation; land expropriation with just compensation payment to retain flood water in the natural waterways; and the overhaul of the flood warning system and water resource management. He said climate change and the La Nina phenomenon had brought heavy downpours and floods to Thailand last month.

Analysing data from 2002 to 2010, he found that El Nino caused drought, which once happened every three years, now to occur every 1.6 years, while the La Nina phenomenon, which occurred every 4.6 years, now struck every 2.6 years. This information was in line with the Central region’s severe flood of 2006, he said.

More structures are being built to prevent floods, and their capacity in five years will reduce the flood re-emergence rate by 16 per cent, he said. But in 10 years or more, the flood re-emergence rate will rise to 50 per cent.

Thanawat pointed out that the building of flood-prevention systems remained scattered and wasn’t up to standard. He urged the government to find flood-prevention measures for the Chao Phraya River basin, especially Bangkok and neighbouring provinces. He said the government must have a development plan, controlling the use of land and city planning based of the flood-risk map.

Chalermchon mentioned the findings by the Thailand-EU joint research project, GEO2TECDI, which used three space geodetic techniques: the Global Navigation Satellite System (GNSS), Interferometric Synthetic Aperture Radar (InSAR) and Satellite Altimetry (SALT), for the detection, monitoring and modelling of land surface motion and deformation due to tectonic processes, land subsidence and sea-level change.

They revealed negative effects for Thailand, especially Bangkok and the area around the Gulf of Thailand. GNSS found that in the five-year period after the great earthquake in Sumatra-Andaman, Thailand’s earth crust subsided at the rate of 10 millimetres per year, while the SALT found the Gulf sea level change at the rate of 5mm per year, compared with the world’s average of 2-3mm per year.

When these factors combined with the rate of Bangkok’s land subsidence rate of 15mm per year, this meant Bangkok would be submerged in 25 years, because the Bangkok soil was only 80-100cm above sea level, he said.

Based on these findings, the land and sea surface moved closer to each other at the average of 30mm per year. If nothing is done to counter this, Bangkok would be submerged in 25 years, he said, adding that academics didn’t want to cause panic but these were scientific findings. In the next five years, they would research more about impact and water level so that they could come up with more details and possibly a future model for Bangkok.

University rector Pirom Kamolrata-nakul said the government seemed to deal with the flooding mostly after it had occurred, rather than deal with the source of the problems and prepare for the coming year.

-- The Nation 2010-11-16

[givenall]

25 more years of fun then I move to higher ground somewhere else if they are right which I doubt

:lol:

[whybother]

In some areas, the Dutch used land fill to bring the land above sea level.

Wouldn't that be relatively easy for Thailand to do?

[creck]

Predicting 25 years ahead on data from eight years sounds more like trying to cause panic than good science to me. However, panic may be the only way to get things done about the floods that ARE occurring let alone those predicted!

[Thaddeus]

In some areas, the Dutch used land fill to bring the land above sea level.

Wouldn't that be relatively easy for Thailand to do?

Only if there is nothing currently built on the land, bit difficult to jack up a tall building and shovel some dirt under it.

[bushwacker]

I cringe when looking at pictures of people walking around the streets with water almost to their knees. All I can think of is the shit and pee and other stuff left by dogs and people every single day. If there is a lot vacant in the city then it is used as a public toilet by street vendors, tuk-tuk drivers, dogs ..... etc. Yuk!

[Northman061]

This would require the Elites to pay out money to build, control and plan for decades ahead.....with no real "profit" to be made, so why would they?

Let us not forget, Thailand is run for what the Elites and Millionaire Generals can make, not what is best for Thailand and the nations future.

[whybother]

This would require the Elites to pay out money to build, control and plan for decades ahead.....with no real "profit" to be made, so why would they?

Let us not forget, Thailand is run for what the Elites and Millionaire Generals can make, not what is best for Thailand and the nations future.

I don't know why you single out the "elites". This is a pretty standard characteristic of most Thais at all levels of Thai society.

[thaiedward]

Good post, methinks. Informative, as well.

I spent a portion of my youth on PEI in the Maritime Provinces of Eastern Canada (among some lovely people).

There was a saying: "Trying to hold-back the Tide with a Pitchfork".

While I'm aware of what the Dutch and others have accomplished, my hope is that The Kingdom and its best citizens can rise to the events at-hand.

I shall try to help as I am able.

Regards to all

[anterian]

It is an uphill and unrewarding struggle tryimg to oppose the forces of nature. The obvious solution is to start to move Bangkok inland, this would be far cheaper than any flood defensive system and far more permanent. However, a lot of very important people would lose a lot of money in the process as Bangkok land values crashed. If these VIPs had any sense they would aklready be buying up land and building inland, the middle classes seem to be already doing this, housing complexes are sporinging up like mushrooms around me, most in the 1.9 to 4.5 MBaht range.

[blazes]

This would require the Elites to pay out money to build, control and plan for decades ahead.....with no real "profit" to be made, so why would they?

Let us not forget, Thailand is run for what the Elites and Millionaire Generals can make, not what is best for Thailand and the nations future.

I don't know why you single out the "elites". This is a pretty standard characteristic of most Thais at all levels of Thai society.

Of course the elites should be "singled out", because only they have the power to "do something" about the problem. They control the government ....and if "most Thais at all levels of Thai society" behave like the elite, then that tells you something about the "education" system the ruling class imposes upon the children of the Kingdom.

My wife is a teacher, and I know how impossible it is for her to be 'creative' and ask simple questions, something as simple as "why are we studying what we are studying" ....who DECIDES what we should study?

As far as I can make out, the emphasis is strongly on rote learning....don't ask questions...here are the answers.

That is how an elite perpetuates its dominance. Don't ask questions.

[cup-O-coffee]

Using the Netherlands as a model is a good thing, but only if you factor in the discipline, lack of corruption, and sincerity that the people in the Netherlands had in achieving this goal, and still have in maintaining it. Also, do not forget the financial numbers. I am sure the major portion of the money spent in the Netherlands went towards these projects, and not diverted into the pockets of politicians and businessmen.

The Delta Works are a series of constructions built between 1950 and 1997 in the southwest of the Netherlands to protect a large area of land around the Rhine-Meuse-Scheldt delta from the sea. The works consist of dams, sluices, locks, dikes, levies, and storm surge barriers. The aim of the dams, sluices, and storm surge barriers was to shorten the Dutch coastline, thus reducing the number of dikes that had to be raised.

The Delta Works

Netherlands North Sea Protection

The Netherlands currently has taken 47 years to develop what they now say is only a temporary solution to their flooding problem. They are already looking well ahead into the future as afar as the year 2100.

Based on these findings, the land and sea surface moved closer to each other at the average of 30mm per year. If nothing is done to counter this, Bangkok would be submerged in 25 years, he said, adding that academics didn't want to cause panic but these were scientific findings. In the next five years, they would research more about impact and water level so that they could come up with more details and possibly a future model for Bangkok.

Bangkokians are just now waking up and smelling the coffee. They are saying their timetable is 25 years to flood crisis. I would calculate that they are already far behind the starting line. I would also calculate that comparing their abilities to the people of the Netherlands is a gross error for people who are more worried about their face than the thing they are working on.

Not only this, but the original project that took 47 years, was side-swiped by many unforeseen changes due to public outcry. Billions and billions of dollars have been spent, and the battle is unending with the annual rise of the sea levels. How deep are Thailand's coffers to come even a tenth of the way close to what the Netherlands has accomplished?

All of this aside, I can not but help considering the many ways that Thai people have of pandering away opportunity while the clouds of certainty approach. I can not even believe that they are talking about this now. This should have been something done years ago. But I am not surprised. The people of the Netherlands put their heads together and got the thing done without bickering, quarreling and stealing project funds. Can Thailand do the same thing in light of their recent and historical accomplishments at building mega-structures? Wait, those are 2000 years old!

University rector Pirom Kamolrata-nakul said the government seemed to deal with the flooding mostly after it had occurred, rather than deal with the source of the problems and prepare for the coming year.

Seemed? Hah! Maybe they think that burying "really big pipes" into the ground "that you can drive trucks through" will fix this problem! It sounds like an epitaph about this project by a university rector, if I interpreted that last statement correctly.

Bangkok will follow in the footsteps of Atlantis, or have to relocate to the interior, and nothing will be done to avert this certainty, because the culture here does not have the integrity, know-how, humility, stamina and determination to use responsibly the resources, time available, energy, effort and funds to resolve a problem BEFORE it happens. They are already 22 years late in my conservative estimate.

The United Nations and World Bank might as well make an appointment in their books, for Thailand in 25 years, when they ask for help from the nations of the world to save their city.

[draftvader]

Of course the elites should be "singled out", because only they have the power to "do something" about the problem. They control the government ....and if "most Thais at all levels of Thai society" behave like the elite, then that tells you something about the "education" system the ruling class imposes upon the children of the Kingdom.

My wife is a teacher, and I know how impossible it is for her to be 'creative' and ask simple questions, something as simple as "why are we studying what we are studying" ....who DECIDES what we should study?

As far as I can make out, the emphasis is strongly on rote learning....don't ask questions...here are the answers.

That is how an elite perpetuates its dominance. Don't ask questions.

Sense spoken. Thank you.

[Neonben]

Excellent, so the Bangkok dream world property prices will start coming down, NOT.

[kissrev1]

Boy, this is shocking news. Never mind that has been a known variable for several years. Remember the tourism minister who claimed some years ago, that Thailand would be a destination because ski resorts would have no snow? They are only now starting to address the problem when they are three feet above sea level? Mai Bpen Rai.

[pisico]

In some areas, the Dutch used land fill to bring the land above sea level.

Wouldn't that be relatively easy for Thailand to do?

Only if there is nothing currently built on the land, bit difficult to jack up a tall building and shovel some dirt under it.

It's being done in Venice, Italy

[pisico]

This would require the Elites to pay out money to build, control and plan for decades ahead.....with no real "profit" to be made, so why would they?

Let us not forget, Thailand is run for what the Elites and Millionaire Generals can make, not what is best for Thailand and the nations future.

I don't know why you single out the "elites". This is a pretty standard characteristic of most Thais at all levels of Thai society.

You mean to wait for a crisis to do something about it? Thai way, remember?

[slapout]

The system of Thailand is a wonder to behold. If a finger of accusation cannot/ is not pointed else where, we will ignore the perceived problem. This system seems to radiate out like a multipointed star. The finger is pointed at a boss as they decide the method and the boss points at subordinates as being conditioned to the old way (non changing), The present authority blames past groups for inaction and the out of favor groups point at present groups as do nothings. This is the system and it has been accepted through out society with a few individual exceptions. The wondrous part of this system is if the individuals involved do not want personal confrontation the finger will be pointed at some innocent object/person.

Those who point out that Thailand or any other country is deserving of the social/government conditions in which they find themselves, may be more perceptive than many of us who are pointing the fingers.

[elcent]

it's already below sea-level. It's sinking 3 - 30cm a year, while the sea-level is rising.

[whybother]

it's already below sea-level. It's sinking 3 - 30cm a year, while the sea-level is rising.

Where do you get your information from? Neither of the highlighted points is true.

[elcent]

it's already below sea-level. It's sinking 3 - 30cm a year, while the sea-level is rising.

Where do you get your information from? Neither of the highlighted points is true.

ignorance has always been a main issue in Thailand.

Just follow past records and look in your neighborhood where you can see the crack at the footsteps of houses and buildings partly indicating the sinking level. Bangkok narrowly escaped a leveling with the sea over a decade ago. Now the sea level is rising sharply which was not under consideration that time.

Look in Samut Prakarn, the gate to the sea and close to Bkk. One temple is drowning in water there since they can't handle it any longer. Compare with old pictures.

Do your home-work.

Yes, it's sinking 3 - 30 cm in a YEAR in most of the areas in Bkk and now the rising sea level.

[tomross46]

Thr green building on Sian Square was built about 45 years ago. Since than they have added numerous steps to the building. The land around the building is sinking but the build does not. If you look at the elivated roas ways you also see that the elivated has not moved while the land had sunk.

Many years ago a law was passed that there would not allow any more underground water to be used in Bangkok. If you pump the water out from underneath, the land will sink.

The old storey, turn on the pumps, Bangkok needs more water. If the land goes down, than you have floods.

[whybother]

it's already below sea-level. It's sinking 3 - 30cm a year, while the sea-level is rising.

Where do you get your information from? Neither of the highlighted points is true.

ignorance has always been a main issue in Thailand.

Just follow past records and look in your neighborhood where you can see the crack at the footsteps of houses and buildings partly indicating the sinking level. Bangkok narrowly escaped a leveling with the sea over a decade ago. Now the sea level is rising sharply which was not under consideration that time.

Look in Samut Prakarn, the gate to the sea and close to Bkk. One temple is drowning in water there since they can't handle it any longer. Compare with old pictures.

Do your home-work.

Yes, it's sinking 3 - 30 cm in a YEAR in most of the areas in Bkk and now the rising sea level.

"a crack at the footsteps" is hardly 30cm in a year.

I'm not saying that it's not sinking, but even at 10 cm per year, it would put Bangkok completely underwater in less than 10 years - and that's without floods and storms.

But, ofcourse "it's already below sea level" isn't it. Just this morning on the way to work, the klongs were overflowing onto the streets.

[elcent]

Thr green building on Sian Square was built about 45 years ago. Since than they have added numerous steps to the building. The land around the building is sinking but the build does not. If you look at the elivated roas ways you also see that the elivated has not moved while the land had sunk.

Many years ago a law was passed that there would not allow any more underground water to be used in Bangkok. If you pump the water out from underneath, the land will sink.

The old storey, turn on the pumps, Bangkok needs more water. If the land goes down, than you have floods.

Most of the buildings don't sink because they are on piles about 12 meter into the ground preventing them from sinking. The same with the little bridges which are becoming more like little hills.

[elcent]

it's already below sea-level. It's sinking 3 - 30cm a year, while the sea-level is rising.

Where do you get your information from? Neither of the highlighted points is true.

ignorance has always been a main issue in Thailand.

Just follow past records and look in your neighborhood where you can see the crack at the footsteps of houses and buildings partly indicating the sinking level. Bangkok narrowly escaped a leveling with the sea over a decade ago. Now the sea level is rising sharply which was not under consideration that time.

Look in Samut Prakarn, the gate to the sea and close to Bkk. One temple is drowning in water there since they can't handle it any longer. Compare with old pictures.

Do your home-work.

Yes, it's sinking 3 - 30 cm in a YEAR in most of the areas in Bkk and now the rising sea level.

"a crack at the footsteps" is hardly 30cm in a year.

I'm not saying that it's not sinking, but even at 10 cm per year, it would put Bangkok completely underwater in less than 10 years - and that's without floods and storms.

But, ofcourse "it's already below sea level" isn't it. Just this morning on the way to work, the klongs were overflowing onto the streets.

Yes, some areas in Bangkok sinking as much as 30 cm a year.

Some areas are 2 meters below sea-level, go figure.

It's not always sinking at the same level. When one year some areas sink 20 cm it may sink 4 cm the following year and other areas more than the previous year.

Edited November 16, 2010 by elcent

[hardy1943]

This would require the Elites to pay out money to build, control and plan for decades ahead.....with no real "profit" to be made, so why would they?

Let us not forget, Thailand is run for what the Elites and Millionaire Generals can make, not what is best for Thailand and the nations future.

I don't know why you single out the "elites". This is a pretty standard characteristic of most Thais at all levels of Thai society.

Who do you think been running this country for the last few thousand years. The peasants.

[phaethon]

Reminds me of a document recently recovered from the seabed...

Edited November 16, 2010 by phaethon

[dighambara]

This would require the Elites to pay out money to build, control and plan for decades ahead.....with no real "profit" to be made, so why would they?

Let us not forget, Thailand is run for what the Elites and Millionaire Generals can make, not what is best for Thailand and the nations future.

I don't know why you single out the "elites". This is a pretty standard characteristic of most Thais at all levels of Thai society.

Thai culture is not geared for the future; today is important, the future may never come.

This is why children are pulled out of school to help in shops and farms - the family doesn't see that, in the future, that child will have a better life and possibly provide a better life for their parents.

Yes, that works at most levels of Thai society. Don't forget that many of the elite consider themselves to be Chinese and not 100% Thai (Wongsawat - Shinawat, etc.). We forget that 50 years ago, Thai leaders were brown like the population...

Land fill makes sense to overcome the now, not the future. Land fill only puts more weight, compressing the mud - add 4 feet of fill and eventually, it too will sink...

However, the greed of the elites over the last century have led to this situation. Building quickly, without proper support or planning, to save money.

Bangkok is on an alluvial mud plain. The heavier the building, the faster it will sink. Piers and piles, to bedrock, are needed to salvage anything already built and levees are needed to control the rivers. A very large bypass canal would also help, but Bangkok will continue to sink.

[jfchandler]

I live on the second floor, so I'm not too worried -- at least for the next 25 years....

Plus, I brought a pair of fireman's knee boots with me from the U.S. Haven't had to use them yet, but have them at the ready....

Was thinking about them a lot a couple weeks back when, during a bus trip from Khon Kaen back to BKK, we had the fortune to get thru the flooded area in Korat just before it got really bad....

Seriously, though, the original article post here referred to a flood zone risk map for the BKK area... Anyone know where such a thing can be found and viewed???

[Bakseedaa]

In some areas, the Dutch used land fill to bring the land above sea level.

Wouldn't that be relatively easy for Thailand to do?

Only if there is nothing currently built on the land, bit difficult to jack up a tall building and shovel some dirt under it.

It's being done in Venice, Italy

The Historic City of Venice only has 60,000 people live there... how can you compare this to Bangkok ... there are 60,000 in my Soi..