Bts Outages And Failure To Accept Responsibility

[DaninBangkok]

It seems that the Silom line was down again last night (Wednesday, November 17) from about 6pm until at least 7, according to friends who I met at my neighbourhood pub.

It is time for BTS officials to accept responsibility for what is going on here and to admit the problems. Go on record daily (yes, DAILY) with the Bangkok Post and The Nation to talk about the previous day's performance, what problems exist, and what specifically is being done to fix them. Discuss your successes and your failures. Let the paying public know that something is happening. Forget about loosing face. Get the problems worked out and get the trains running smoothly and efficiently.

Why not start with running FULL OPERATIONS without passengers between 1am and 5am to test that all systems are running? Once that works for 7 consecutive days, then move the service to regular operating hours. Don't run just one or two trains at a time as is being done at night. Run the whole system at full capacity and see if it works. If not, then go on record in the press to identify the problem and talk about what is being done to fix it. Accept responsibility. Stop playing the “rectification work is in progress” recording and talk specifically about the problem and the intended solution with a realistic time for resolution.

Let's do the same thing for the extension from On Nut. If there are officials in the BTS system who don't want to accept responsibility and sign the necessary paperwork for fear of getting charged in a lawsuit, then those officials are derelict in their duties. Fire them, take away their pension, and get people in place who will accept responsibility and get the system working.

Passengers have had enough of the pussy-footing around. We are tired of the ongoing problems and the excuses and the lack of responsibility. Fix it and make it work or get out of the way and stop impeding progress!

[Carib]

Well I am glad you got that of your chest. Better now?

[DaninBangkok]

Yes, thank you. Whew!

[dutchweller]

Yes, thank you. Whew!

Asking a Thai Especially a High ranking official in a Thai company to admit wrong doing is akin to asking a politician to give a straight answer.

Thais will almost never admit wrong doing "unless it is to get a reduced sentence in a Thai Court" due to they will loose face.

I get this almost daily with my staff... you catch them doing something Stupid/wrong ask them why they are doing it and you will either be told they did not do it or they thought it was the right thing when they clearly know it is not..

[Soi Sauce]

You should all know by now that it is illegal for any Thai to be wrong.

Thais accept this fact as it allows them all to stay in ignorant bliss.

You only have to look at their acceptance of the garbage poured on them by their politicians which nobody ever questions. Politicos know the public are dimm but that the above law meands they will swallow their even dimmer, "innapropriate", whatever that means, statements on anything.

BTW I ovelook the on Nut extension and have seen no work, or even anybody on the track or the nearest station, for at least 9 months. Maybe there's no more graft to be extracted from it so it's being left idle. No point in working just for a salary like the rest of the developed World, is there? Tit and we do things our way. that's why we have no transport structure to speak of, those we do have regularly kill their passengers, and 3G is a pop group, mai?

Edited November 18, 2010 by Soi Sauce

[jybkk]

BTW I ovelook the on Nut extension and have seen no work, or even anybody on the track or the nearest station, for at least 9 months.

Actually the OP mentionned briefly the reason: some equipment for the extension is yet to be delivered because the guy responsible for the procurement was about to retire and too afraid to sign any purchase order. It seems this kind of equipment needs more than a year to be delivered and they realized it was missing only when they were supposed to install it.

So, now, they're just waiting for the delivery. Then they will have to install, test, and finally open. Seems it's going to be some time in 2011

[ricklev]

BTW I ovelook the on Nut extension and have seen no work, or even anybody on the track or the nearest station, for at least 9 months.

Actually the OP mentionned briefly the reason: some equipment for the extension is yet to be delivered because the guy responsible for the procurement was about to retire and too afraid to sign any purchase order. It seems this kind of equipment needs more than a year to be delivered and they realized it was missing only when they were supposed to install it.

So, now, they're just waiting for the delivery. Then they will have to install, test, and finally open. Seems it's going to be some time in 2011

It's amazing to me how many people believe that is the real reason it is not open yet. I don't know the real reason, but I'm pretty sure that the one put out for public consumption by the powers that be is not anywhere close to accurate!

[powderpuff]

I keep telling you guys.

They are waiting for that Chinese factory to make their new rolling stock.

If it's a year or 2 late - so what? No big deal.

It will be cheap. And it will be broken constantly.

But it is cheap. Real cheap.

[asiawatcher]

I reckon it is still the fastest way around town no matter what delays. If Silom went down for an hour - it is still faster than driving!!!

[lomatopo]

I think the main reason for not having 24 hours service is that every millimeter of track is inspected every night, and every system is tested. This may be why the BTS has an unblemished safety record?

The passenger loads continue to increase, the Wong Wian Yai single-track extension remains a choke-point, and the new signalling system seems to experience some hiccups. The plan was to deploy the new 4-car sets on the Silom line this month (November, and move some 3-car trains onto the Sukhumvit line), and increase frequency during peak travel times, but am not sure where this stands? Maybe they started using the 4-car sets yesterday, which caused some issues. If so, this would hardly be surprising given that you rarely experience real-life issues testing overnight with no passengers.

I keep telling you guys.

They are waiting for that Chinese factory to make their new rolling stock.

If it's a year or 2 late - so what? No big deal.

It will be cheap. And it will be broken constantly.

But it is cheap. Real cheap.

Twelve 4-car trains were delivered end June 2010 so not sure what you're on about?

Edited November 19, 2010 by lomatopo

[lomatopo]

The Bearing extension from On Nut is dependent on an even newer signalling system which is still in the works. I have not stayed up to date on this issue.

Bangkok Post

Skytrain link tests delayed

Published: 19/09/2009 at 12:00 AM

Newspaper section: News

Testing on the BTS Sukhumvit line extension will probably be pushed back until late 2011 due to delays in the procurement of signalling and electrical systems, says deputy Bangkok governor Teerachon Manomaipibul.

Procurement should have taken place nine months ago if the original December 2010 deadline for the test run was to be met. But purchasing of the operating systems for the 5km extension from Onnuj to Soi Baring, or Sukhumvit Soi 107, has not been approved yet, said Mr Teerachon, who is responsible for mass transit projects.

The senior City Hall official responsible for making the purchase has apparently stalled the scheme over fears of being investigated if something went wrong with the purchase, he said.

The official in question is due to retire and does not want to take risks despite being told the scheme is strictly in line with regulations, said Mr Teerachon.

Former city clerk Khunying Nathanon Thavisin was accused of irregularities over the purchase of fire trucks and boats by the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration.

City Hall retroactively fired her from the post this week.

Mr Teerachon said he cannot be sure the test run can take place by mid-2011 as the consulting and bidding process normally takes about seven months.

Construction of the superstructure and stations by contractor Italian-Thai Development Plc is about 95% complete.

Edited November 19, 2010 by lomatopo

[ricklev]

Do you really believe that because somebody said it and the paper printed it that it is true?

[lomatopo]

FYI, delays, that is to say lower frequency (more time, ~ 10 - 12 minutes vs. 4 - 8 between trains), continue today on the Silom line. Not sure why, although there are many BTS staff on the platforms and frequent announcements about delays, it seems like it could be another signaling system snafu. Three-car trains observed today on the Silom line but I only saw 3 trains, so 4-car trains could possibly be in service.

The BTS seemed very full, there is a synchronicity between the two lines which is certainly messed up. Since connecting pax from Silom to Sukhumvit are bunched up that means Sukhumvit line trains are alternatively really full and not full. The really full trains have a longer travel time, owing to pax unloading/loading, which means those trains are getting bunched up. This seems to build through the day, and perhaps reaches a tipping point at or near PM rush hour?

Edited November 19, 2010 by lomatopo

[Lakegeneve]

I think the main reason for not having 24 hours service is that every millimeter of track is inspected every night, and every system is tested. This may be why the BTS has an unblemished safety record?

The passenger loads continue to increase, the Wong Wian Yai single-track extension remains a choke-point, and the new signalling system seems to experience some hiccups. The plan was to deploy the new 4-car sets on the Silom line this month (November, and move some 3-car trains onto the Sukhumvit line), and increase frequency during peak travel times, but am not sure where this stands? Maybe they started using the 4-car sets yesterday, which caused some issues. If so, this would hardly be surprising given that you rarely experience real-life issues testing overnight with no passengers.

I keep telling you guys.

They are waiting for that Chinese factory to make their new rolling stock.

If it's a year or 2 late - so what? No big deal.

It will be cheap. And it will be broken constantly.

But it is cheap. Real cheap.

Twelve 4-car trains were delivered end June 2010 so not sure what you're on about?

The new CNR built 4 car sets (12 in all) will start operating exclusively on the Silom line from 1 Dec.

The current 35 Siemans 3 car sets will be used on the Suk line and as you point out that will allow the BTSC to increase the frequency during peak hour.

[Lakegeneve]

The Bearing extension from On Nut is dependent on an even newer signalling system which is still in the works. I have not stayed up to date on this issue..

The Bearing ext is now due to be opened on 12 August 2011 but we should expect that will be delayed.

You did well to remind people of the farcical reason why this ext has been delayed, yet another TIT moment. Apart from the responsible BMA about to retire official it shows yet again that oversight and management of major projects remains lacking. The ext was originally schedule to open early this year but as we know original deadlines tend to mean little.......

On a positive note, the BMA has been given a loan to fund the 4 stations for the BTS Silom line from Wong Wian Yai to Bang Wa (Phetkasem rd). The viaduct has been completed for some 3 years now.

Completion date is end of 2012 if that means anything.

[Lakegeneve]

Yes, thank you. Whew!

Two things. The BMA funded and contracted the Wong Wian Yai ext. They subsequently contracted the BTS to run it. Your complaint really needs to be addressed to the BMA.

Secondly, the main problem going on is that the BMA tendered and awarded the contract for the systems & electrics to a non-Siemens system contractor as it was cheaper (Siemens supplied the systems and electrics for the original lines). It is meant to be compatible but there are problems at the points and turnouts between both systems. You see this particularly when a train has to stop for a period of time.

So you need ot be venting your anger at the BMA.

The single platform at Saphan Taksin does not help but the reality is that if there were no problems with the systems/electrics then the service could have a more frequent headway. Remember, prior to the ext opening headways at peak were 2.45mins ......now they are 5 mins all the time!

Edited November 21, 2010 by Lakegeneve

[bkkjames]

So Lake, you mentioned the new four car trains from china will start on the silom line on Dec 1?

(Note to self) make alternative travel arrangements to get to / from work on Dec 1, 2 and 3)

[geriatrickid]

Can you guys stop for just a minute a think it over. Bear in mind that there isn't a system in the world that doesn't have similar issues.

One of the major cause of delays is attributable to fallers or jumpers. Believe it or not people drop alot of things and this does cause delays. Jumpers are not publicized for obvious reasons. I'm not saying that's the only reason for the dalays, but the number of incidents would surprise most people.

Edited November 22, 2010 by geriatrickid

[lomatopo]

Operations seem normalized today. In fact frequency seems higher than normal (~ 2.5 min - 4 min intervals on both lines when it should be 6 - 8 (off peak). Maybe the signalling system is now ready for more trains on the Sukhumvit line and the 4-car trains on the Silom line?

[Lakegeneve]

Can you guys stop for just a minute a think it over. Bear in mind that there isn't a system in the world that doesn't have similar issues.

One of the major cause of delays is attributable to fallers or jumpers. Believe it or not people drop alot of things and this does cause delays. Jumpers are not publicized for obvious reasons. I'm not saying that's the only reason for the dalays, but the number of incidents would surprise most people.

Can you stop for a minute and actually do more than speculate or do you have specific data? Can you draw on any specific incidents on the BTS system in relation to "fallers or jumpers" as I would for one would be surprised by "the number of incidents"??? I can think of at least 4 highly publicised incidents in the last few yrs, two resulting in deaths but none of those incidents occured on the section of the Silom line. I do also disagree with you on the "not publicised" element, unlike many other fatalities in Thailand anything that occurs on the BTS system is discussed at length on Thai bulletin boards and in the Thai media adnauseum.

Yes, objects do fall on the tracks on a daily basis but this rarely, if ever, results in service delays given that BTS staff usually, promptly retrieve them without the need to access the track area.

I sense your drawing a long bow. However, any specific facts you may have do pls share. What we are discussing here is a known ongoing, system fault that leads to higher headways, service delays and breakdowns on the Silom line.

[barryFunk]

I saw a new four car train pass by Chong Nonsi station this morning as I got off the BRT on the way into work. Looks like they're trialling at least one this weekend before they take over the whole line next week?

It looked pretty sleek.

[Digitalbanana]

Seems like after weeks of uncertainty someone has spoken up!