Social Values Must Change After 2,000 Foetuses Found At Bangkok Temple: PM Abhisit

[webfact]

PM's abortion response: social values must change after 2,000 foetuses found at temple

BANGKOK, Nov 20 -- Thai Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva said Saturday that “long standing social values must be corrected” and that the authorities "must monitor illegal abortion clinics closely.”

His comments were made after 2,002 foetuses were found in compartments of a Buddhist temple’s morgue in Bangkok in two separate incidents earlier this week. The findings have led women’s groups to ask the government for a law change to better cope with the illegal abortion problem.

So far a former nurse identified as Ranchakorn Jantamanas was detained by police on charges of allegedly delivering foetuses to the temple. She also reportedly confessed to police to performing abortions.

Abortion is illegal in Thailand unless the mother’s health is in danger or she has been a rape victim.

“I’ve spoken about this [illegal abortion] problem constantly and ordered the Ministry of Social Development and Human Security, the major agency dealing with the issue, to create a correct social ethic. The long-standing problem must be corrected with a pro-active approach,” Mr Abhisit said.

He said concerned officials must work harder to suppress illegal abortion clinics.

There is no problem concerning the law dealing with this issue as the law is flexible and it is in line with Medical Council and Public Health Ministry guidelines, he said.

“The problem lies in society's values which require study and fostering appropriate values among the at-risk groups," he added. (MCOT online news)

-- TNA 2010-11-20

[Paul123456]

Just make it legal

[animatic]

You can't regulate human behavior 100%,

and ethics panels mean diddly squat to a pregnant girl

who's family will throw her out, or just end her education,

because she was never properly informed about birth control

and sexual relations.

So either regulate properly and raise above board a human behavior

that all the talking hasn't stopped existing, EVER, or push our

vulnerable daughters in trouble, into even more greedy and

unscrupulous back street abortionists with absolutely no scruples,

and nothing resembling regulation or a safe environment for a

medical procedure with great risks for the mother.

Edited November 20, 2010 by animatic

[rubl]

May I suggest we start the strict social values and ethics drive this evening. Any boy - girl couple should be stopped and questioned by the police and sent to their respective parents, separately. And while we're at it, pubs should be closed 11 PM this evening to allow everybody to participate in the Thai folklore / cultural event of Loi Krathong. Keep up the good work.

[animatic]

Nothing against social ethics education, and accurate sex education also.

But it tends to always be hit or miss and inconsistently applied.

It also has to be a long term strategy with viable alternatives till it is

more strongly in place. This will take a generation to change global,

national behaviors; between now and then, what?

Edited November 20, 2010 by animatic

[rubl]

Nothing against social ethics education, and accurate sex education also.

But it tends to always be hit or miss and inconsistently applied.

It also has to be a long term strategy with viable alternatives till it is

more strongly in place. This will take a generation to change global,

national behaviors; between now and then, what?

A pragmatic approach. Don't prosecute the kids, or even older people who undergo an abortion. Weed out excesses, slowly start regulations and education. Ask for regular feedback on approach. USE the feedback. Etc., etc.

[jayjay0]

Legalize it. Make it available to all who want it. That will end the illegal clinics. xcept for the ones that are taking fetuses that are far enough along to live out side the womb. I have no idea when that is but I have heard of six month premes making it.

The government could take care to see that all fetuses were dalt with in a acceptable manner. ( no I don't know what is acceptable in Thai culture) and I refus to lower myself to impose western culture on them. They will pick it up in there own time.

In a properly run clinic a women could get pre abortion counseling and counseling after the abortion. All designed to make them feel better with there decision not to influence it.

[animatic]

Legalize it. Make it available to all who want it. That will end the illegal clinics. xcept for the ones that are taking fetuses that are far enough along to live out side the womb. I have no idea when that is but I have heard of six month premes making it.

The government could take care to see that all fetuses were dalt with in a acceptable manner. ( no I don't know what is acceptable in Thai culture) and I refus to lower myself to impose western culture on them. They will pick it up in there own time.

In a properly run clinic a women could get pre abortion counseling and counseling after the abortion. All designed to make them feel better with there decision not to influence it.

Or counseling designed to understand fully and properly their decision.

Edited November 20, 2010 by animatic

[mkawish]

I would look at this take very differently.

Let the Premiere, Apisit be the very first to start and model the change.

Let him take the very first responsibility to show the country where

morality should begin and where should morality go to affect the necessary changes in our young people lives.

Let him take the reign in his own two hands, rather then delegating this enormous responsibility yet to another person or persons.

Our beloved Premiere is famous and well recognized by delegating responsibilities.

Let's give our beloved Premiere a chance to grow up and mature taking this moral fiber development in his own hands and show us all,

how can we make parental, educational, social and community changes to immediately affect and improve our youngsters' welfares and lives immediately. :jap:

Edited November 20, 2010 by mkawish

[jayjay0]

I would look at this take very differently.

Let the Premiere, Apisit be the very first to start and model the change.

Let him take the very first responsibility to show the country where

morality should begin and where should morality go to affect the necessary changes in our young people lives.

Let him take the reign in his own two hands, rather then delegating this enormous responsibility yet to another person or persons.

Our beloved Premiere is famous and well recognized by delegating responsibilities.

Let's give our beloved Premiere a chance to grow up and mature taking this moral fiber development in his own hands and show us all,

how can we make parental, educational, social and community changes to immediately affect and improve our youngsters' welfares and lives immediately. :jap:

You want to know

"how can we make parental, educational, social and community changes to immediately affect and improve our youngsters' welfares and lives immediately."

Answer don't be silly we can't all we can do is make a start.

You are just another red shirt grabbing at straws to make Abhist look bad.

[webfact]

PM: abortion law amendment not needed; safe sex campaign may not reach high-risk youth, better understanding needed beginning with primary education

-- 2010-11-21 MCOT

[Scott]

This thread isn't about the red-yellow divide in the country. It's about a social/medical/ethical issue.

Stay on topic.

[bangkokcitylimits]

May I suggest we start the strict social values and ethics drive this evening. Any boy - girl couple should be stopped and questioned by the police and sent to their respective parents, separately. And while we're at it, pubs should be closed 11 PM this evening to allow everybody to participate in the Thai folklore / cultural event of Loi Krathong. Keep up the good work.

In what time are you living ????

[bangkokcitylimits]

PM: abortion law amendment not needed; safe sex campaign may not reach high-risk youth, better understanding needed beginning with primary education

-- 2010-11-21 MCOT

To start with educating the teachers

We foreigners could do that

[webfact]

Jurin agrees with PM’s decision not to change abortion law

BANGKOK, 20 November 2010 (NNT) - Public Health Minister Jurin Laksanawisit agreed with the Prime Minister’s decision not to repeal the abortion law, citing the problem must be solved at the root cause, teaching proper sex education to minors.

Mr Jurin said that there was no need to change the abortion law, explaining that the law had already allowed abortion in two circumstances: when the mother’s health was in danger or when she had been the victim of rape.

According to the Medical Council of Thailand, abortion could only be conducted (1) with the consent of the woman, (2) by certified medical professional, (3) in hospitals or clinics, and (4) with the doctor who performed the abortion informing the Council of the operation. The Minister explained that the law was already suitable and reasonable for the circumstance.

He further stated that the Council has modified the abortion law by allowing abortion in cases that the baby could be critically handicapped or there was a high risk of genetic disease.

Mr Jurin has urged all provincial public health officials and related authorities to monitor illegal abortion activities. He suggested that best way out was to give proper sex education to students and promote family planning.

-- NNT 2010-11-21

[yellow1red1]

There's a way Thailand could stop shooting Herself in the foot. Aim Higher!

Something has to change? Leally!? The list is way too long.

Xxxx xxx Xxxxxx!

[Jimi007]

It should be the woman's right to chose what happens with their own body, not a bunch of old men that think their "morality" is higher. Plus It has bothered me that all these articles are written using an outdated word for fetus, just as the laws that try to legislate "morality" are out of date.

The spelling foetus has no etymological basis but is recorded from the 16th century and until recently was the standard British spelling in both technical and nontechnical use. In technical usage, fetus is now the standard spelling throughout the English-speaking world.

[organic]

“I’ve spoken about this [illegal abortion] problem constantly and ordered the Ministry of Social Development and Human Security, the major agency dealing with the issue, to create a correct social ethic. The long-standing problem must be corrected with a pro-active approach,” Mr Abhisit said.

What on earth does this actually mean? Anything?

And how does a govt ministry "create" an ethic?

[zthyadat]

I would look at this take very differently.

Let the Premiere, Apisit be the very first to start and model the change.

Let him take the very first responsibility to show the country where

morality should begin and where should morality go to affect the necessary changes in our young people lives.

Let him take the reign in his own two hands, rather then delegating this enormous responsibility yet to another person or persons.

Our beloved Premiere is famous and well recognized by delegating responsibilities.

Let's give our beloved Premiere a chance to grow up and mature taking this moral fiber development in his own hands and show us all,

how can we make parental, educational, social and community changes to immediately affect and improve our youngsters' welfares and lives immediately. :jap:

Well so far, Abhisit has been as big a disappointment as Obama... look at his conservative boneheaded response so far... keep up suppression (yep, that will solve the problem), and a few vague remarks about fostering social values... but hey, the law as it stands is perfectly fine, Abhisit says. No problem here...

I wouldn't mind so much if I thought he actually believed the garbage issuing from his mouth, but as usual, he plays it safe and sings to the conservative gallery - uphold the status quo, don't introduce progressive ideas like say, making the father responsible, introducing sex education in schools, making condoms widely available, providing state assistance (not punishment) for those women who don't get illegal abortions and have a kid to take care of... But no, Abhisit goes along with the fantasists who have decided that young people should behave a certain way and if they wish hard enough and close all the abortion clinics (and their eyes) a clean and moral Thailand (the one that they think used to exist, but actually never did) will magically appear and there will be no more problems to avoid confronting ever again.

[animatic]

May I suggest we start the strict social values and ethics drive this evening. Any boy - girl couple should be stopped and questioned by the police and sent to their respective parents, separately. And while we're at it, pubs should be closed 11 PM this evening to allow everybody to participate in the Thai folklore / cultural event of Loi Krathong. Keep up the good work.

In what time are you living ????

This is irony and sarcasm.

rubi ain't serious....

[slapout]

What I think is ironic is that Thai's in authority in Thailand are not well enough acquainted with their countries social values to accept this along with the other questionable morals which are revealed every day. This is just another example of how far out of touch some people are with the real world (the term rose tinted glasses comes to mind) Charges are proposed against some, but it seems to be common knowledge where abortion shops are located, cost of services, etc. Most Thai landlords know what is going on in their properties (snoopy as they are), the police know where the potential tea money is, government agencies who issue documents for a miracle child (no known mother father), undertakers who receive payment for disposal, anyone connected with the final rites of the victims, When the stench can be detected and other observations made, what about those involved?

"Social values must change" priceless

[swerver]

What I think is ironic is that Thai's in authority in Thailand are not well enough acquainted with their countries social values to accept this along with the other questionable morals which are revealed every day. This is just another example of how far out of touch some people are with the real world (the term rose tinted glasses comes to mind) Charges are proposed against some, but it seems to be common knowledge where abortion shops are located, cost of services, etc. Most Thai landlords know what is going on in their properties (snoopy as they are), the police know where the potential tea money is, government agencies who issue documents for a miracle child (no known mother father), undertakers who receive payment for disposal, anyone connected with the final rites of the victims, When the stench can be detected and other observations made, what about those involved?

"Social values must change" priceless

Abortion BS

Having studied, lived, worked in a variety of countries of the world during the past 75-years caused me in a never ending stream being exposed to this abortion bullshit. Bullshit it is because every one and his brother/sister sticks their nose in someone elses business, and not only sticks their noses in it, but dictates how the other person must behave/live and do with their PERSONAL body.

As long as religion and the culture card which has been around for centuries in the past continuous then this abortion BS will NEVER be cleaned up.

The Law Thailand has on the books about the subject are not too restricted, but still intrude in to the individual’s freedom of action.

A country calling itself democratic - like Thailand does - must adhere to democracy of personal freedoms in which case Abortion must be available to every female after counseling to ascertain the female knows what she is involved in and is sure she wants to proceed with the abortion. Remember all you do-gooders, it is her life and she has to live with the decision till the end of her life, no business of all you do-gooders.

It is surprising do-gooder America in the person of Hillary Clinton has not appeared on the scene yet, right now, rest assured she will be here as soon as she can get away from

The (missing) American letter

[scorecard]

I would look at this take very differently.

Let the Premiere, Apisit be the very first to start and model the change.

Let him take the very first responsibility to show the country where

morality should begin and where should morality go to affect the necessary changes in our young people lives.

Let him take the reign in his own two hands, rather then delegating this enormous responsibility yet to another person or persons.

Our beloved Premiere is famous and well recognized by delegating responsibilities.

Let's give our beloved Premiere a chance to grow up and mature taking this moral fiber development in his own hands and show us all,

how can we make parental, educational, social and community changes to immediately affect and improve our youngsters' welfares and lives immediately. :jap:

Well so far, Abhisit has been as big a disappointment as Obama... look at his conservative boneheaded response so far... keep up suppression (yep, that will solve the problem), and a few vague remarks about fostering social values... but hey, the law as it stands is perfectly fine, Abhisit says. No problem here...

I wouldn't mind so much if I thought he actually believed the garbage issuing from his mouth, but as usual, he plays it safe and sings to the conservative gallery - uphold the status quo, don't introduce progressive ideas like say, making the father responsible, introducing sex education in schools, making condoms widely available, providing state assistance (not punishment) for those women who don't get illegal abortions and have a kid to take care of... But no, Abhisit goes along with the fantasists who have decided that young people should behave a certain way and if they wish hard enough and close all the abortion clinics (and their eyes) a clean and moral Thailand (the one that they think used to exist, but actually never did) will magically appear and there will be no more problems to avoid confronting ever again.

That's not what PM Abhisitsaid, not all all. Just your attempt to twist his words and meanings into something different.

[gemini81]

abort the aborters

[phetaroi]

What I think is ironic is that Thai's in authority in Thailand are not well enough acquainted with their countries social values to accept this along with the other questionable morals which are revealed every day. This is just another example of how far out of touch some people are with the real world (the term rose tinted glasses comes to mind) Charges are proposed against some, but it seems to be common knowledge where abortion shops are located, cost of services, etc. Most Thai landlords know what is going on in their properties (snoopy as they are), the police know where the potential tea money is, government agencies who issue documents for a miracle child (no known mother father), undertakers who receive payment for disposal, anyone connected with the final rites of the victims, When the stench can be detected and other observations made, what about those involved?

"Social values must change" priceless

Abortion BS

Having studied, lived, worked in a variety of countries of the world during the past 75-years caused me in a never ending stream being exposed to this abortion bullshit. Bullshit it is because every one and his brother/sister sticks their nose in someone elses business, and not only sticks their noses in it, but dictates how the other person must behave/live and do with their PERSONAL body.

As long as religion and the culture card which has been around for centuries in the past continuous then this abortion BS will NEVER be cleaned up.

The Law Thailand has on the books about the subject are not too restricted, but still intrude in to the individual’s freedom of action.

A country calling itself democratic - like Thailand does - must adhere to democracy of personal freedoms in which case Abortion must be available to every female after counseling to ascertain the female knows what she is involved in and is sure she wants to proceed with the abortion. Remember all you do-gooders, it is her life and she has to live with the decision till the end of her life, no business of all you do-gooders.

It is surprising do-gooder America in the person of Hillary Clinton has not appeared on the scene yet, right now, rest assured she will be here as soon as she can get away from

The (missing) American letter

I think both of you, and many others in this thread, are approaching this from an inherently incorrect perspective. Frankly, you're trying to frame the discussion of Thai culture and morals on a western/American framework. And even there, you're wrong. Even in the States there's a wide diversity of opinion about the morality and what should be the legality of abortion rights. You make it all sound so simple, when it's really an extremely complex issue.

[whybother]

It should be the woman's right to chose what happens with their own body, not a bunch of old men that think their "morality" is higher. Plus It has bothered me that all these articles are written using an outdated word for fetus, just as the laws that try to legislate "morality" are out of date.

The spelling foetus has no etymological basis but is recorded from the 16th century and until recently was the standard British spelling in both technical and nontechnical use. In technical usage, fetus is now the standard spelling throughout the English-speaking world.

Just because it's not the American spelling doesn't make it outdated. Fetus is the lazy spelling.

[alexboy]

The best solution for all countries with abortions problems: do like muslim countries and ask women to dress conservatively, the parents watching them and not letting them go out at night with men. teach women to respect their body and not to have sex unless married!

Voila! most of the problem solve!

[animatic]

The best solution for all countries with abortions problems: do like muslim countries and ask women to dress conservatively, the parents watching them and not letting them go out at night with men. teach women to respect their body and not to have sex unless married!

Voila! most of the problem solve!

And stone them to death if they don't follow those rules.

Real social progress, eh?

[fridgemagnet]

Condom use would seem to solve this one at a stroke.

The pill is cheap enough, and available at every pharmacy.

But will we see a government initiative? Probably thought of as being immoral.

Morality be hanged.

Edited November 21, 2010 by fridgemagnet

[jayjay0]

Condom use would seem to solve this one at a stroke.

The pill is cheap enough, and available at every pharmacy.

But will we see a government initiative? Probably thought of as being immoral.

Morality be hanged.

Well I agree with you about Morality be hanged in this situation.

Not sure about the role the government is to play in people getting different things to prevent Pregnacy. The very fact that they are in every store should tell you that the people know about them. Legislation will not make this problem go away. About all it will do is set a scene for more corruption.