Thai PM Abhisit To Discuss Ban On Goods With His Image

[webfact]

PM to discuss ban on goods with his image

By The Nation

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva yesterday ordered a review of the Centre for the Resolution of the Emergency Situation's ban on sale of any goods that may create national division, especially items with his face printed on them.

Reacting to the move by Army Chief General Prayuth Chan-ocha who has ordered concerned authorities to seize or confiscate materials or goods likely to create division, Abhisit said the ban would adversely affect constitutional rights and since the emergency decree had been lifted, the ban would not be effective.

"Since I am not in CRES, I do not know details about the ban. Originally there has been concern about lese majesty offences. If that is the case, I agree that we need to be strict, but this ban concerns national rifts, so it may affect human rights. We have to find a balance and see what is suitable so this will not cause more conflicts," he said.

He said he would discuss the issue with Defence Minister General Prawit Wongsuwan at their meeting yesterday.

Abhisit was responding to a public outcry over arrests of vendors who sold flip-flops with his face on them during red-shirt rallies, including the latest gathering on Friday at the Ratchaprasong intersection in Bangkok. With the ban not yet lifted, police have no choice but to arrest vendors with such materials and seize them.

-- The Nation 2010-11-21

[asiawatcher]

This is very Thai. I saw a roll of toilet paper with Thaksin face printed on it and had a good laugh. Having someones face under feet? Who cares?

[Siam Simon]

Abhisit scores another very good point. And all governments will have noted the glaring "Since I am not in CRES, I do not know details about the ban". This guy is clever, he keeps going further up in my estimation.

[Thailand]

Colors rather than images seem to be the main problem in Thailand divisions.

A ban or a crackdown on colors would be appropriate.

[jayboy]

Abhisit scores another very good point. And all governments will have noted the glaring "Since I am not in CRES, I do not know details about the ban". This guy is clever, he keeps going further up in my estimation.

Perhaps more than clever (which with his Oxford first class honours degree he obviously is).Perhaps given this news item, while making a perfectly reasonable exception for LM offences, reflecting a deeper attachment to freedom of expression and diversity in society.I'm two minded about Abhisit.I do admire him yet feel he is to some extent under the influence of some very illiberal elite (feudal/army) pressures, the most unattractive elements in Thai society.On the other hand when I see a news piece like this I feel a sense of hope.Abhisit is I think a real democrat (with a small "d") and does believe in popular democracy, albeit with sensible safeguards.He still however has to face up to the still unexplained deaths in Bangkok earlier this year, which from press reports this morning seem to be part of the reason David Cameron has cancelled his Christmas visit.

[ChiangMaiFun]

Some seem to want to link 'free expression' about the government with critisising 'the thing we cannot dicuss' - if they are unafraid of democracy they should let free-expression flourish - sometimes it seems they are only mid-way between the Burma model and the West model - decades away from 'trusting the people'.

[KhaoNiaw]

which from press reports this morning seem to be part of the reason David Cameron has cancelled his Christmas visit.

I don't believe that for a moment. They never would have booked it in the first place if that was the case. That's just the excuse to make the part about being totally insensitive to the domestic situation less of an issue.

[whybother]

Abhisit scores another very good point. And all governments will have noted the glaring "Since I am not in CRES, I do not know details about the ban". This guy is clever, he keeps going further up in my estimation.

Perhaps more than clever (which with his Oxford first class honours degree he obviously is).Perhaps given this news item, while making a perfectly reasonable exception for LM offences, reflecting a deeper attachment to freedom of expression and diversity in society.I'm two minded about Abhisit.I do admire him yet feel he is to some extent under the influence of some very illiberal elite (feudal/army) pressures, the most unattractive elements in Thai society.On the other hand when I see a news piece like this I feel a sense of hope.Abhisit is I think a real democrat (with a small "d") and does believe in popular democracy, albeit with sensible safeguards.He still however has to face up to the still unexplained deaths in Bangkok earlier this year, which from press reports this morning seem to be part of the reason David Cameron has cancelled his Christmas visit.

Reports where? I can't find any.

edit: got Insight's link now.

Edited November 21, 2010 by whybother

[Insight]

Abhisit scores another very good point. And all governments will have noted the glaring "Since I am not in CRES, I do not know details about the ban". This guy is clever, he keeps going further up in my estimation.

Perhaps more than clever (which with his Oxford first class honours degree he obviously is).Perhaps given this news item, while making a perfectly reasonable exception for LM offences, reflecting a deeper attachment to freedom of expression and diversity in society.I'm two minded about Abhisit.I do admire him yet feel he is to some extent under the influence of some very illiberal elite (feudal/army) pressures, the most unattractive elements in Thai society.On the other hand when I see a news piece like this I feel a sense of hope.Abhisit is I think a real democrat (with a small "d") and does believe in popular democracy, albeit with sensible safeguards.He still however has to face up to the still unexplained deaths in Bangkok earlier this year, which from press reports this morning seem to be part of the reason David Cameron has cancelled his Christmas visit.

Seen that one in the Torygraph. Whether it was because of pressure from human rights groups is mere speculation. The linked article cites criticism of taking an extravagant holiday during an economic downturn as the lost likely reason for his cancellation.

No doubt this cancellation will be played up by the red PR teams for maximum effect however.

[jayboy]

which from press reports this morning seem to be part of the reason David Cameron has cancelled his Christmas visit.

I don't believe that for a moment. They never would have booked it in the first place if that was the case. That's just the excuse to make the part about being totally insensitive to the domestic situation less of an issue.

I tend to agree that the domestic situation must be the main reason, and by a considerable factor.The human rights aspect was however mentioned in the press reports, but again I agree this is hardly likely to have been a major consideration.

Still there are some odd aspects to the local perception of the deaths earlier this year.Almost no discussion, investigations going nowhere and within seconds of me mentioning it, posts made about red propaganda.In many countries governments would stand or fall following an investigation of civilian deaths on this scale.In Thailand zip, nothing, zero.

And before someone mentions the drug war killings, doesn't the complete absence of follow up and accountability prove my point?

[jayjay0]

which from press reports this morning seem to be part of the reason David Cameron has cancelled his Christmas visit.

I don't believe that for a moment. They never would have booked it in the first place if that was the case. That's just the excuse to make the part about being totally insensitive to the domestic situation less of an issue.

I tend to agree that the domestic situation must be the main reason, and by a considerable factor.The human rights aspect was however mentioned in the press reports, but again I agree this is hardly likely to have been a major consideration.

Still there are some odd aspects to the local perception of the deaths earlier this year.Almost no discussion, investigations going nowhere and within seconds of me mentioning it, posts made about red propaganda.In many countries governments would stand or fall following an investigation of civilian deaths on this scale.In Thailand zip, nothing, zero.

And before someone mentions the drug war killings, doesn't the complete absence of follow up and accountability prove my point?

The only mystery is in your head. A group of terrorists tried to take over the government unwilling to negotiate. Put thousands of honest citizens out of work. Indiscriminate bombing invasion of hospitals. Illegally seized a portion of down town Bangkok and when they like little babies couldn't get there way they tried to burn it down. How do you see a mystery in the death of some of them in the freeing up of down town Bangkok.

[ChiangMaiFun]

which from press reports this morning seem to be part of the reason David Cameron has cancelled his Christmas visit.

I don't believe that for a moment. They never would have booked it in the first place if that was the case. That's just the excuse to make the part about being totally insensitive to the domestic situation less of an issue.

I tend to agree that the domestic situation must be the main reason, and by a considerable factor.The human rights aspect was however mentioned in the press reports, but again I agree this is hardly likely to have been a major consideration.

Still there are some odd aspects to the local perception of the deaths earlier this year.Almost no discussion, investigations going nowhere and within seconds of me mentioning it, posts made about red propaganda.In many countries governments would stand or fall following an investigation of civilian deaths on this scale.In Thailand zip, nothing, zero.

And before someone mentions the drug war killings, doesn't the complete absence of follow up and accountability prove my point?

The only mystery is in your head. A group of terrorists tried to take over the government unwilling to negotiate. Put thousands of honest citizens out of work. Indiscriminate bombing invasion of hospitals. Illegally seized a portion of down town Bangkok and when they like little babies couldn't get there way they tried to burn it down. How do you see a mystery in the death of some of them in the freeing up of down town Bangkok.

Nonsense - get your facts right - anyway roll on elections coz they will be voted in!

[whybother]

<snip>

Still there are some odd aspects to the local perception of the deaths earlier this year.Almost no discussion, investigations going nowhere and within seconds of me mentioning it, posts made about red propaganda.In many countries governments would stand or fall following an investigation of civilian deaths on this scale.In Thailand zip, nothing, zero.

<snip>

First ... wasn't there a report released into some of the deaths last week? Going slowly, but not nowhere.

Second ... It's hard to compare this to other countries. In western countries, there wouldn't be armed protests, so there wouldn't be deaths (or only one or two). In some countries that there might be armed protests, there wouldn't even be an investigation.

One of the reasons this government isn't falling, is because a lot of people realise that the cause of most of the deaths were the protesters themselves. I'm not saying the red shirts did all the killing, but they raised the stakes by being armed themselves. If they weren't armed, there wouldn't have been all the deaths.

[whybother]

Nonsense - get your facts right - anyway roll on elections coz they will be voted in!

The upcoming by-elections will be interesting. The recent by-elections, and the current coalition, seems to indicate that the PTP don't have a chance of winning an election.

[ChiangMaiFun]

Nonsense - get your facts right - anyway roll on elections coz they will be voted in!

The upcoming by-elections will be interesting. The recent by-elections, and the current coalition, seems to indicate that the PTP don't have a chance of winning an election.

By-elections are rarely an indication - and depends where they are. Anyway we will not really know until IT happens - which the current government are trying to stall as long as possible. I am not particularly in favour of a 'red' government but I am against the rich, elitist 'yellows' - if you see what I mean. So I'm caught in the middle (not that it matters what we farangs think).

Anyway what most people CAN agree on is that 'supressing and censoring' cannot be the sign of a healthy democracy - whatever colour you may sympathise with.

[Insight]

I don't believe that for a moment. They never would have booked it in the first place if that was the case. That's just the excuse to make the part about being totally insensitive to the domestic situation less of an issue.

I tend to agree that the domestic situation must be the main reason, and by a considerable factor.The human rights aspect was however mentioned in the press reports, but again I agree this is hardly likely to have been a major consideration.

Still there are some odd aspects to the local perception of the deaths earlier this year.Almost no discussion, investigations going nowhere and within seconds of me mentioning it, posts made about red propaganda.In many countries governments would stand or fall following an investigation of civilian deaths on this scale.In Thailand zip, nothing, zero.

And before someone mentions the drug war killings, doesn't the complete absence of follow up and accountability prove my point?

The only mystery is in your head. A group of terrorists tried to take over the government unwilling to negotiate. Put thousands of honest citizens out of work. Indiscriminate bombing invasion of hospitals. Illegally seized a portion of down town Bangkok and when they like little babies couldn't get there way they tried to burn it down. How do you see a mystery in the death of some of them in the freeing up of down town Bangkok.

Nonsense - get your facts right - anyway roll on elections coz they will be voted in!

I agree (somewhat). The government did "negotiate" and offered them elections that would of been and gone by now.

Why did they refuse?

[SomTumTiger]

Love all the Thaksinophiles swarming around on this thread

[jayboy]

The only mystery is in your head. A group of terrorists tried to take over the government unwilling to negotiate. Put thousands of honest citizens out of work. Indiscriminate bombing invasion of hospitals. Illegally seized a portion of down town Bangkok and when they like little babies couldn't get there way they tried to burn it down. How do you see a mystery in the death of some of them in the freeing up of down town Bangkok.

It's a common point of view I agree, particularly among the elite and significant elements in the urban middle class.

History will however have its own verdict on these events.

[DP25]

Nonsense - get your facts right - anyway roll on elections coz they will be voted in!

If the goal of the "protest" had anything to do with elections, they could have peacefully disbanded and there would be elections RIGHT NOW. There was an offer of elections in Novemember, which was refused, because they had no interest in them. Of course they had to refuse, they know full well that they can not win anything remotely close to a majority, and don't have the support of smaller parties to form a coalition. Their only chance of getting Thaksins money was a violent overthrow of the government, which is the reason they were launching grenades at the skytrain and at crowds of civilians, planting bombs, arming themselves and barricading streets, putting thousands of poor people out of work, shutting down businesses, threatening to burn down the city, etc.

[ChiangMaiFun]

I tend to agree that the domestic situation must be the main reason, and by a considerable factor.The human rights aspect was however mentioned in the press reports, but again I agree this is hardly likely to have been a major consideration.

Still there are some odd aspects to the local perception of the deaths earlier this year.Almost no discussion, investigations going nowhere and within seconds of me mentioning it, posts made about red propaganda.In many countries governments would stand or fall following an investigation of civilian deaths on this scale.In Thailand zip, nothing, zero.

And before someone mentions the drug war killings, doesn't the complete absence of follow up and accountability prove my point?

The only mystery is in your head. A group of terrorists tried to take over the government unwilling to negotiate. Put thousands of honest citizens out of work. Indiscriminate bombing invasion of hospitals. Illegally seized a portion of down town Bangkok and when they like little babies couldn't get there way they tried to burn it down. How do you see a mystery in the death of some of them in the freeing up of down town Bangkok.

Nonsense - get your facts right - anyway roll on elections coz they will be voted in!

I agree (somewhat). The government did "negotiate" and offered them elections that would of been and gone by now.

Why did they refuse?

I agree it was a foolish mistake to refuse - and before all the 'yellow fellows' start shouting 'because Khun T told them too' I don't think it's that simple. They made huge errors of judgement, in my view, which were more to do with 'pride' etc.

The red thing is more to do with paradigm shift and a broad 'enlightenment' which will take many decades to flow out.

[whybother]

Nonsense - get your facts right - anyway roll on elections coz they will be voted in!

The upcoming by-elections will be interesting. The recent by-elections, and the current coalition, seems to indicate that the PTP don't have a chance of winning an election.

By-elections are rarely an indication - and depends where they are. Anyway we will not really know until IT happens - which the current government are trying to stall as long as possible. I am not particularly in favour of a 'red' government but I am against the rich, elitist 'yellows' - if you see what I mean. So I'm caught in the middle (not that it matters what we farangs think).

Anyway what most people CAN agree on is that 'supressing and censoring' cannot be the sign of a healthy democracy - whatever colour you may sympathise with.

In the west, I'd generally agree that by-elections don't give a good indication - too often there is just a meaningless protest vote against the government. I don't think the Thai population understand the processes well enough to do that. IMO, they'll vote for the same people they would vote for in a general election - which the government will call when they are ready, and not just because a minority group wants it.

"I am not particularly in favour of a 'red' government but I am against the rich, elitist 'yellows' - if you see what I mean. "

I see what you mean, but I think that any 'red' government will have the worse "rich, elitist" at the helm. The current government is not "the yellows", as shown by the number of protests by yellows against the government recently.

[Thailand]

Should the ban go ahead I foresee a huge underground market in Abhisit image products. Gone will be the fake Rolex etc.

It will be hey guv, you want buy Abhisit tshirt only 10,000 baht- wait here while I go get.Note his colleagues on the street corners eyeballing for the BIB who will want to stamp out this heinous crime, or alternatively turn a blind eye and take their cut.

Edited November 21, 2010 by Thailand

[webfact]

PM: Disunity items ban to be re-considered

BANGKOK, 21 November 2010 (NNT) - Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva wants the Centre for the Resolution of the Emergency Situation (CRES) to revise their order banning items the Center claims might cause disunity, saying that the order might be a breach of people's rights to freedom of speech. In the wake of the CRES's order prohibiting the sale or free distribution of materials that it said might lead to disunity of people in the nation, Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva said he would discuss with General Prayuth Chan-o-cha, the Army C-in-C, whether the order was proper, given the ban could violate people's rights, and was not in line with the constitution. The Premier went on to say that he wanted the Center to revise the order as the ban itself could lead to unity. Yesterday the CRES issued an order banning the sale or distribution of materials which include T-shirtsand and sandals bearing images of prominent people.

-- NNT 2010-11-21

[ChiangMaiFun]

Nonsense - get your facts right - anyway roll on elections coz they will be voted in!

The upcoming by-elections will be interesting. The recent by-elections, and the current coalition, seems to indicate that the PTP don't have a chance of winning an election.

By-elections are rarely an indication - and depends where they are. Anyway we will not really know until IT happens - which the current government are trying to stall as long as possible. I am not particularly in favour of a 'red' government but I am against the rich, elitist 'yellows' - if you see what I mean. So I'm caught in the middle (not that it matters what we farangs think).

Anyway what most people CAN agree on is that 'supressing and censoring' cannot be the sign of a healthy democracy - whatever colour you may sympathise with.

In the west, I'd generally agree that by-elections don't give a good indication - too often there is just a meaningless protest vote against the government. I don't think the Thai population understand the processes well enough to do that. IMO, they'll vote for the same people they would vote for in a general election - which the government will call when they are ready, and not just because a minority group wants it.

"I am not particularly in favour of a 'red' government but I am against the rich, elitist 'yellows' - if you see what I mean. "

I see what you mean, but I think that any 'red' government will have the worse "rich, elitist" at the helm. The current government is not "the yellows", as shown by the number of protests by yellows against the government recently.

I have an aversion to the 'yellows' claiming the 'high ground' and claiming everything against them is against the 'other thing' we cannot dicuss. No one wants T back and I don't believe the red thing is ALL about him (some is of course) but it's a larger cultural 'move' (hopefully forward).

[jdinasia]

Claims that it isn't about Thaksin are just in the minds of the people making the claims. PTP and the Reds have repeatedly said that this is about Thaksin.

The by-elections certainly indicate that the reds have lost the backing of most of the people (not that they EVER had "most" -- though when Thaksin bought up the regional powerbases of the local machines in 2005 he was able to get the votes

If one knew enough of the history of some of the red leadership he would know that there certainly are elements that would like to see a radical change in how Thailand is governed.

[ChiangMaiFun]

Claims that it isn't about Thaksin are just in the minds of the people making the claims. PTP and the Reds have repeatedly said that this is about Thaksin.

The by-elections certainly indicate that the reds have lost the backing of most of the people (not that they EVER had "most" -- though when Thaksin bought up the regional powerbases of the local machines in 2005 he was able to get the votes

If one knew enough of the history of some of the red leadership he would know that there certainly are elements that would like to see a radical change in how Thailand is governed.

We will never see eye-to-eye on this as my approach is based on a wide cultural paradim which has nothing to do with 'shortterm-ism' and certainley not about Khun T. but to do with Thai people starting the slow process of demanding change - change from being subdued by the 'elite' whoever they are - and based on thinking outside of the Thai 'box' that their 'betters' have put them firmly in!

[phiphidon]

Reacting to the move by Army Chief General Prayuth Chan-ocha who has ordered concerned authorities to seize or confiscatematerials or goods likely to create division, Abhisit said the ban would adversely affect constitutional rights and since the emergency decree had been lifted, the ban would not be effective.

"Since I am not inCRES, I do not know details about the ban. Originally there has been concern about lese majesty offences. If that is the case, I agree that we need to be strict, but this ban concerns national rifts, so it may affect humanrights. We have to find a balance and see what is suitable so this will not cause more conflicts," he said.

Now, have I got this right, Abhisit says the ban would adversely affect constitutional rights ,but since the emergency decree has been lifted the ban wouldn't work anyway. Abhisit has stated before that the Emergency Decree does not affect peoples constitutional rights, yet this ban is only effective in provinces where the emergency decree is in place? Not only that but it was only yesterday he was reported to have been thinking of lifting the emergency decree nationwide. The emergency decree has not been lifted, so what is he talking about?

Furthermore, as far as I am aware the CRES reports to the Prime Minister who is in charge of the country. So what is Gen. (the army will not get involved in politics) Prayuth doing making up laws on the spot?

I think that it is a very good idea that PM Abhisit discusses the ban with the Defence Minister. Perhaps he can even overide this ban or can that not be done as it has been raised under the auspicies of the Emergency Decree and seeing that he is "not in CRES" he's not in control.

[KhaoNiaw]

In many countries governments would stand or fall following an investigation of civilian deaths on this scale.In Thailand zip, nothing, zero.

And before someone mentions the drug war killings, doesn't the complete absence of follow up and accountability prove my point?

I agree with you. I think even more than the drug killings, the events at Tak Bai illustrate your point. Thaksin's also been given an incredibly easy ride from western commentators considering what happened there and his subsequent comments.

I know the 'double standards' mantra has pretty much been copyrighted by the Reds now; but to be calling for the current PM to stand trial as a murderer while waving pictures of the man whose government oversaw Tak Bai and made sure no one was held accountable has got to be a prime candidate for the 'double standards' label.

[jdinasia]

Claims that it isn't about Thaksin are just in the minds of the people making the claims. PTP and the Reds have repeatedly said that this is about Thaksin.

The by-elections certainly indicate that the reds have lost the backing of most of the people (not that they EVER had "most" -- though when Thaksin bought up the regional powerbases of the local machines in 2005 he was able to get the votes

If one knew enough of the history of some of the red leadership he would know that there certainly are elements that would like to see a radical change in how Thailand is governed.

We will never see eye-to-eye on this as my approach is based on a wide cultural paradim which has nothing to do with 'shortterm-ism' and certainley not about Khun T. but to do with Thai people starting the slow process of demanding change - change from being subdued by the 'elite' whoever they are - and based on thinking outside of the Thai 'box' that their 'betters' have put them firmly in!

While I understand that you WISH that such a paradigm shift would occur, currently it is just that. Wishful Thinking. Your "approach" has nothing to do with what is actually happening in Thailand, now does it?

Please give us examples of how the red shirt movement has shown itself to be anything that it claims to be. (or anything that you claim it is!) Their political arm has refused elections. Their political arm has never spoken about the nature of democracy etc etc etc. All that has been said has been complaints against how things are .. with no solid suggestions of how they should change ... and "bring back Thaksin".

Where are PTP's platform planks on reducing corruption?, redistributing wealth in a way that doesn't kill the tax-base?, improving opportunities for people in rural Thailand? improving education? creating a more fair system of advancement other than the patronage system now in place (and strongest in rural NE Thailand.) etc etc

[ChiangMaiFun]

Claims that it isn't about Thaksin are just in the minds of the people making the claims. PTP and the Reds have repeatedly said that this is about Thaksin.

The by-elections certainly indicate that the reds have lost the backing of most of the people (not that they EVER had "most" -- though when Thaksin bought up the regional powerbases of the local machines in 2005 he was able to get the votes

If one knew enough of the history of some of the red leadership he would know that there certainly are elements that would like to see a radical change in how Thailand is governed.

We will never see eye-to-eye on this as my approach is based on a wide cultural paradim which has nothing to do with 'shortterm-ism' and certainley not about Khun T. but to do with Thai people starting the slow process of demanding change - change from being subdued by the 'elite' whoever they are - and based on thinking outside of the Thai 'box' that their 'betters' have put them firmly in!

While I understand that you WISH that such a paradigm shift would occur, currently it is just that. Wishful Thinking. Your "approach" has nothing to do with what is actually happening in Thailand, now does it?

Please give us examples of how the red shirt movement has shown itself to be anything that it claims to be. (or anything that you claim it is!) Their political arm has refused elections. Their political arm has never spoken about the nature of democracy etc etc etc. All that has been said has been complaints against how things are .. with no solid suggestions of how they should change ... and "bring back Thaksin".

Where are PTP's platform planks on reducing corruption?, redistributing wealth in a way that doesn't kill the tax-base?, improving opportunities for people in rural Thailand? improving education? creating a more fair system of advancement other than the patronage system now in place (and strongest in rural NE Thailand.) etc etc

You don't understand the concept of paradigm shift so no point discussing it