A Dangerous Idea That No One In Thailand Wants To Own Up To

[webfact]

THAI TALK

A dangerous idea that no one wants to own up to

By Suthichai Yoon

The Nation

The Centre for the Resolution of the Emergency Situation (CRES) made a bad mistake when it issued Order 141/2553 to ban "goods that could create disunity in the country".

And when it decided to backtrack by revoking that order about a week later, the CRES's spokesman was evasive enough to say the U-turn had nothing to do with public criticism and Premier Abhisit Vejjajiva's public statement that he thought it was the wrong move in the first place.

Colonel Sansern Kaewkamnerd said: "We have revoked the ban because no instances of anyone breaching it came to light."

That was a rather lame excuse, of course.

If no such case did take place, why then had the CRES got so excited as to issue an order creating fear in the public's mind - to the extent that we were all seriously concerned that the red shirts and yellow shirts were selling goods that were splitting the country yet again?

Nervous people could have got so scared by the order that, to avoid arrest, they would have had to burn their red or yellow T-shirts with political messages. A sense of restlessness prevailed after a red-shirt vendor in Ayutthaya was "caught" by police and charged with "threatening national security" - just because she was selling sandals with pictures of prominent politicians.

Premier Abhisit made it clear that although he didn't quite like the idea of his picture being printed on sandals, he considered that such a personal offence had nothing to do with "national security". He would decide himself whether or not to sue those producing this kind of item. But the CRES, to his mind, had no business banning the sandals that he didn't like.

There lies the underlying question: Why didn't the spokesman just simply say: The prime minister has told us to scrap the order. We are all military officers under a democratically elected government. Therefore, we have to obey the civilian leader?

Or better still, the spokesman could have said the order was scrapped because the army finally realised that it was a stupid idea to consider items including clothing and footwear that carry political messages as a danger to the state. But instead, the official statement reflected the CRES's lack of sensitivity toward public reaction, or respect for the basic ground rules of a democratic system: The military must work under a civilian government with a popular and legitimate mandate.

Was CRES director, Army Commander-in-Chief General Prayuth Chan-Ocha, miffed because the prime minister had spoken to the press about his disagreement over the move instead of consulting him directly? Nobody is quite sure. But it could also be asked why the Army chief hadn't raised the issue with the premier before coming up with the controversial, ill-advised order?

Conspiracy theorists (unfortunately, I am not one of them) would waste no time at all to suggest that for the Army chief to let the premier get caught flat-footed on this order might have been part of a devious plot to undermine his political standing.

But it's still early days for the Abhisit-Prayuth working relationship. When all is said and done though, it's not the personalities that count. It's the principle of Thai military officers "returning to their barracks". They must renew the task of proving to the whole country that the military establishment is serious about becoming a professional body, as part of the nation's pursuit of democracy, no matter how tortuous the road ahead.

And no matter how tempting for gun-carrying generals to take a shortcut to power, any attempt to subvert the path back to a democratic political system - in which the people's wishes come before anyone's political ambition - must be resisted.

To get the country back to "normalcy", toying with the dangerous idea of creating a military-political complex simply isn't an option.

-- The Nation 2010-12-02

[mca]

Why didn't the spokesman just simply say:...... We are all military officers under a democratically elected government. Therefore, we have to obey the civilian leader?

Yes Khun Suthichai. Of course. Quite astonishing that didn't happen isn't it.

[SergeiY]

Why didn't the spokesman just simply say:...... We are all military officers under a democratically elected government. Therefore, we have to obey the civilian leader?

Yes Khun Suthichai. Of course. Quite astonishing that didn't happen isn't it.

It's a good opinion piece. Suthichai Yoon ask the right question and comes to the right conclusions including proper pointed use of quotation marks.

To get the country back to "normalcy", toying with the dangerous idea of creating a military-political complex simply isn't an option.

[Thaddeus]

But it could also be asked why the Army chief hadn't raised the issue with the premier before coming up with the controversial, ill-advised order?

Because he is running the country and didn't feel the need to consult a lacky.

[cup-O-coffee]

This article seems like a report on one of the Thai soaps that my wife watches.

It's all good, but does it really matter? And will it ever end?

Just like a soap. They never end.

[jayjay0]

I really liked this part

["And no matter how tempting for gun-carrying generals to take a shortcut to power, any attempt to subvert the path back to a democratic political system - in which the people's wishes come before anyone's political ambition - must be resisted."]

You give a red shirt a inch and he will take a mile.

If he was honest he would not have said back to democratic political system. He would have said back to Thaksin.

They don't miss a chance to discredit Abhist. In addition to being Terrorists and Buffoons they are becoming Comical.

"come before anyone's political ambition"

What planet is he talking about?

Edited December 2, 2010 by jayjay0

[hammered]

Good opinion piece.

What is discussed is the symptom of the different agendas of the many different groupings competing for power. This all goes way beyong simplistic red/yellow analysis

[OzMick]

But it could also be asked why the Army chief hadn't raised the issue with the premier before coming up with the controversial, ill-advised order?

Because he is running the country and didn't feel the need to consult a lacky.

you missed the bit about his order being revoked, which seems indicative of the opposite.

[SergeiY]

I really liked this part

["And no matter how tempting for gun-carrying generals to take a shortcut to power, any attempt to subvert the path back to a democratic political system - in which the people's wishes come before anyone's political ambition - must be resisted."]

You give a red shirt a inch and he will take a mile.

If he was honest he would not have said back to democratic political system. He would have said back to Thaksin.

They don't miss a chance to discredit Abhist. In addition to being Terrorists and Buffoons they are becoming Comical.

"come before anyone's political ambition"

What planet is he talking about?

I think Suthichai Yoon is far away from coming under the suspicion to be a red shirt.

He talks about basic democratic and constitutional principles and the question who rules the country and who has the power.

An entity of the military or a PM elected by the people?

[Thai at Heart]

I wonder if there are any wikileaks about what the US Embassy thinks about the Army's role in Thai politics.

Could be some classic reading material in there.

[SergeiY]

But it could also be asked why the Army chief hadn't raised the issue with the premier before coming up with the controversial, ill-advised order?

Because he is running the country and didn't feel the need to consult a lacky.

you missed the bit about his order being revoked, which seems indicative of the opposite.

you missed the bit about the reasons that were given why the order was revoked. I don't really indicate the opposite ...

Colonel Sansern Kaewkamnerd said: "We have revoked the ban because no instances of anyone breaching it came to light."

That was a rather lame excuse, of course.

...

There lies the underlying question: Why didn't the spokesman just simply say: The prime minister has told us to scrap the order. We are all military officers under a democratically elected government. Therefore, we have to obey the civilian leader?

[Thai at Heart]

But it could also be asked why the Army chief hadn't raised the issue with the premier before coming up with the controversial, ill-advised order?

Because he is running the country and didn't feel the need to consult a lacky.

you missed the bit about his order being revoked, which seems indicative of the opposite.

you missed the bit about the reasons that were given why the order was revoked. I don't really indicate the opposite ...

Colonel Sansern Kaewkamnerd said: "We have revoked the ban because no instances of anyone breaching it came to light."

That was a rather lame excuse, of course.

...

There lies the underlying question: Why didn't the spokesman just simply say: The prime minister has told us to scrap the order. We are all military officers under a democratically elected government. Therefore, we have to obey the civilian leader?

Because no one would have believed he ever said it.

Jockeys and Owners. The clearest message ever given to explain how the army sees its role in Thailand.

[SergeiY]

I wonder if there are any wikileaks about what the US Embassy thinks about the Army's role in Thai politics.

Could be some classic reading material in there.

Hopefully coming soon. They have like over 2000 documents from the last five, six years or so.

that is a list of them

((link removed))

its an excel file and doesnt contain much just the header line of the documents, a long list of codes like that:

2/18/10,Embassy Bangkok,"120 - 122 Wireless Road and 95 Wireless Road

Bangkok, Thailand","PGOV, PREL, PREF, MARR, MASS, MCAP, TH"

2/11/10,Embassy Bangkok,"120 - 122 Wireless Road and 95 Wireless Road

Bangkok, Thailand","OEXC,SCUL,KPAO, PREL, TH"

9/20/06,Embassy Bangkok,"120 - 122 Wireless Road and 95 Wireless Road

Bangkok, Thailand","PREL, PGOV, MARR, MASS, EAID, KDEM, PHUM, TH"

...

As far as i have it understood they will release the cables step by step and as for yesterday wasn't anything available from Thailand yet.

But my guess is that most of it will be just boring average stuff and not really a 'bomb'

UPDATE:

leaks from bangkok dropping now at the cable viewer

Link removed, please see post below.

Edited December 2, 2010 by lopburi3

[Thai at Heart]

I wonder if there are any wikileaks about what the US Embassy thinks about the Army's role in Thai politics.

Could be some classic reading material in there.

Hopefully coming soon. They have like over 2000 documents from the last five, six years or so.

that is a list of them

http://www.sendspace.com/file/zbt29p

its an excel file and doesnt contain much just the header line of the documents, a long list of codes like that:

2/18/10,Embassy Bangkok,"120 - 122 Wireless Road and 95 Wireless Road

Bangkok, Thailand","PGOV, PREL, PREF, MARR, MASS, MCAP, TH"

2/11/10,Embassy Bangkok,"120 - 122 Wireless Road and 95 Wireless Road

Bangkok, Thailand","OEXC,SCUL,KPAO, PREL, TH"

9/20/06,Embassy Bangkok,"120 - 122 Wireless Road and 95 Wireless Road

Bangkok, Thailand","PREL, PGOV, MARR, MASS, EAID, KDEM, PHUM, TH"

...

As far as i have it understood they will release the cables step by step and as for yesterday wasn't anything available from Thailand yet.

But my guess is that most of it will be just boring average stuff and not really a 'bomb'

UPDATE:

leaks from bangkok dropping now at the cable viewer

Should be an awful lot of fun.

[Roadman]

"There lies the underlying question: Why didn't the spokesman just simply say: The prime minister has told us to scrap the order. We are all military officers under a democratically elected government. Therefore, we have to obey the civilian leader?"

Duh...the face saving bit.

Important thing is that the order was scraped and by the correct person. Sorry did I mention that was the guy in charge...Abhisit.

[SergeiY]

Should be an awful lot of fun.

Oh yeah, and it raise the question what is the TVF name of the people who wrote these cables.

[Crossy]

Ladies and Gentlemen, for now please don't post links to or quotes from the Wikileaks cables relating to Thailand.

[SergeiY]

"There lies the underlying question: Why didn't the spokesman just simply say: The prime minister has told us to scrap the order. We are all military officers under a democratically elected government. Therefore, we have to obey the civilian leader?"

Duh...the face saving bit.

Important thing is that the order was scraped and by the correct person. Sorry did I mention that was the guy in charge...Abhisit.

What face saving issue? A soldier should have no problem to say " Yes Boss, Aye-aye, sir!" and no face to lose. The opposite, a soldier should be happy like a dog to follow orders and act under command.

[SergeiY]

Ladies and Gentlemen, for now please don't post links to or quotes from the Wikileaks cables relating to Thailand.

okay, maybe you should write a sticky post and give us some guideline what is allowed and what not so that TVF don't get into legal trouble.

There will be a few other members who come across the leaks without reading your post first.

[Crossy]

Ladies and Gentlemen, for now please don't post links to or quotes from the Wikileaks cables relating to Thailand.

okay, maybe you should write a sticky post and give us some guideline what is allowed and what not so that TVF don't get into legal trouble.

There will be a few other members who come across the leaks without reading your post first.

We are formulating an official position right now, watch this space.

[colinscarr]

"... any attempt to subvert the path back to a democratic political system - in which the people's wishes come before anyone's political ambition..."

My Thai history isn't all that good, but can anyone tell me when the country ever had a democratic system that it might now be trying to get back to?

[hanuman1]

The CRES has been fear-mongering now for the past few months in order to maintain its position of being relevant.

Whilst the army's position remains - as ever - unassailable, it wouldn't want others starting to think that the dissolution of the CRES could be the thin end of the wedge in terms of diminishing the power of the gun and its main sponsors over Thai politics.

Edited December 2, 2010 by hanuman1

[Crossy]

For those waiting with baited breath to post WikiLeaks links, here's the official ThaiVisa policy:-

Members are allowed to link to original WikiLeaks documents but no quotes are allowed

[Lindern]

Ladies and Gentlemen, for now please don't post links to or quotes from the Wikileaks cables relating to Thailand.

okay, maybe you should write a sticky post and give us some guideline what is allowed and what not so that TVF don't get into legal trouble.

There will be a few other members who come across the leaks without reading your post first.

You mean quotes from wikileaks.org? How? Remember, this is Thailand. This is what I see when I try to go to that site:

การเข้าถึงข้อมูลดังกล่าวนี้ ถูกระงับเป็นการชั่วคราว

โดยอาศัยอำนาจตามพระราชกำหนดการบริหารราชการ ในสถานการณ์ฉุกเฉิน พ.ศ. ๒๕๔๘

ตามคำสั่งของศูนย์อำนวยการแก้ไขสถานการณ์ฉุกเฉิน

An access to such information has been temporarily ceased

due to the order of the Centre for the Resolution of the Emergency Situation (CRES)

under the authority of emergency decree B.E 2548 (A.D. 2005).

[jayjay0]

I really liked this part

["And no matter how tempting for gun-carrying generals to take a shortcut to power, any attempt to subvert the path back to a democratic political system - in which the people's wishes come before anyone's political ambition - must be resisted."]

You give a red shirt a inch and he will take a mile.

If he was honest he would not have said back to democratic political system. He would have said back to Thaksin.

They don't miss a chance to discredit Abhist. In addition to being Terrorists and Buffoons they are becoming Comical.

"come before anyone's political ambition"

What planet is he talking about?

I think Suthichai Yoon is far away from coming under the suspicion to be a red shirt.

He talks about basic democratic and constitutional principles and the question who rules the country and who has the power.

An entity of the military or a PM elected by the people?

Well I stand corrected I thought that the Parliament elected him. Who was the last one elected by the people.

Forgive me I have not been here that long I have been here long enough to know Thaksin wasn't. He was elected the same way Abhist was. A name and a year with the number of votes he got and the number his opponents got will do. I can get along fine on the facts your opinions will not be needed or appreciated. Here is your big chance to prove you are the real thing. Please don't let us down. I would hate to think you were just a talker.

[asiawatcher]

Another huge amount of nothing really in an impossibly long article that says and means nothing to anyone other than the stringer who wrote it getting paid by the word!

[TAWP]

http://cablegate.wikileaks.org/ works on some ISP, blocked on some...it seem...but I am able to reach it at home now, and that ISP is usually one of the more 'restrictive' if there is ever a 50/50-chance of something being blocked...