Can Child Own House?

[sweeex]

Hello !

Me and my Thai wife have gone seperate ways , she has returned to thailand,

I´ll start with some facts. we have a daughter, 5 yo, she is mix nationality, and are legaly thai, with her name in famely housebook! (sence one year)

a house were bought near the beach last april 2010. and my ex is the only owner. (to make it easy ,,,!) I thought that if we split up later ,, then she would have something in thailand to fall back on! but now our break up came sooner than any expected,,

we have separated as quite good maners,, we still respect eachother and have our daughter wellbeing in mind first hand. I want the paper works to be clear and to have everything seattled!

I have borrowed money for the house here in my home country!

we agreed that we split our belongings in here back home,,= I payed her of from our common life here home, and I would take control of our new house in thailand( nobody has their name in house book of new house)

so far so good,

I made contact with a thai lawyer and they said that my daughter would be able to be the soul owner of the house! and then we would make a contract like this " usufrukt" for me renting the house untill my daughter was grown up and as adult could care for the house. (20 years)

the process were started and al were good( as well as could be,,?, )

to make the story shorter,,,, now I got told , when my ex wife were to sign ower the house to our daughter, in the local ampur,, that our daughter COULD NOT ? be lonely owner of the house? this due to the fact that she still lives with me in sweden. and that she is mixed nationality ?

It would have possible if she was staying with ex wife in thailand ?? is this a local decition at the ampur,, or common? anybody know?

I did think that my daughter as a thai national would be able to own house/land ! ok,, if she cant as minor,, but as adult then?? can she own then?

anyway,, the situation is not desperate or wery bad, as I have got the "usufrukt" from my ex wife insted,, but I would feel more atease if my daughters name were on the chanote insead of ex wife! you know how I meen?

who can tell what will be later in life,, and how it´ll turn out for ex wife and daughter?

The plan at this day is that our daughter will have the house, with me as caretaker and manager of the house untill she can, with the "usufrukt" in hand I am calm for the next 20 years,,

but to be 100% sure, i would like daughter to own house.

would be nice to hear some thoughts ,,,

Edited December 11, 2010 by sweeex

[gregb]

to make the story shorter,,,, now I got told , when my ex wife were to sign ower the house to our daughter, in the local ampur,, that our daughter COULD NOT ? be lonely owner of the house? this due to the fact that she still lives with me in sweden. and that she is mixed nationality ?

Mixed nationality means nothing. You are either Thai or you aren't, and your daughter is, so you can safely ignore that. Your daughter can own the house, but there are procedures you must follow.

Generally, your daughter will have to appear at the local ampur to perform the transfer, and that is likely the source of the problem you are being told about. You could simply fly to Thailand with your daughter to appear in person and the problem would be resolved. Alternatively, you can contact a Thai lawyer and find out if there is some way to do the transfer without your daughter being physically present. If there is such an option, nobody is going to volunteer that information. I personally do not know if that is possible, as every time I've heard of someone doing this the child has been able to attend.

Do keep in mind, when you do this you are giving the house as a gift to your daughter. You will not be able to sell the house until your daughter turns 20, except in the case where you can convince a judge that the sale is in your daughter's best interest. You will no longer have any control or interest in the property.

Sorry to hear about your divorce. Hope it all works out for you.

[sweeex]

to make the story shorter,,,, now I got told , when my ex wife were to sign ower the house to our daughter, in the local ampur,, that our daughter COULD NOT ? be lonely owner of the house? this due to the fact that she still lives with me in sweden. and that she is mixed nationality ?

Mixed nationality means nothing. You are either Thai or you aren't, and your daughter is, so you can safely ignore that. Your daughter can own the house, but there are procedures you must follow.

Generally, your daughter will have to appear at the local ampur to perform the transfer, and that is likely the source of the problem you are being told about. You could simply fly to Thailand with your daughter to appear in person and the problem would be resolved. Alternatively, you can contact a Thai lawyer and find out if there is some way to do the transfer without your daughter being physically present. If there is such an option, nobody is going to volunteer that information. I personally do not know if that is possible, as every time I've heard of someone doing this the child has been able to attend.

Do keep in mind, when you do this you are giving the house as a gift to your daughter. You will not be able to sell the house until your daughter turns 20, except in the case where you can convince a judge that the sale is in your daughter's best interest. You will no longer have any control or interest in the property.

Sorry to hear about your divorce. Hope it all works out for you.

Thanks! that is what guessed! what can I say, ,, when here back home I am a bit ofside, I made contact with thai lawyer,he told me this could be done, maybe some missunderstanding were my daughter is staying have ocured? I even payed him to do the needed paperwork for this,, and wanted him to atend my ex when she went to the ampur for signing over house to daughter. Ofcourse ex think that she dont need any help,,, and swallows whatever they say at ampur,,! if the atourothy of a lawyer with knowlighe,,were present,,, ? it might have tured out diffrent?

it´s never the smoth way,, if one wants anything done you have to get it done yourself! to expect someone to follow your guide lines,,,,

well,, I recon that I can have house signed over next time we are in thailand if it wount be possible with daughter here , atleast I´ll soon have the usufrukt on the house.

It may be sorted out this following week ,, just have to wait and see,

[thaisail]

to make the story shorter,,,, now I got told , when my ex wife were to sign ower the house to our daughter, in the local ampur,, that our daughter COULD NOT ? be lonely owner of the house? this due to the fact that she still lives with me in sweden. and that she is mixed nationality ?

Mixed nationality means nothing. You are either Thai or you aren't, and your daughter is, so you can safely ignore that. Your daughter can own the house, but there are procedures you must follow.

Generally, your daughter will have to appear at the local ampur to perform the transfer, and that is likely the source of the problem you are being told about. You could simply fly to Thailand with your daughter to appear in person and the problem would be resolved. Alternatively, you can contact a Thai lawyer and find out if there is some way to do the transfer without your daughter being physically present. If there is such an option, nobody is going to volunteer that information. I personally do not know if that is possible, as every time I've heard of someone doing this the child has been able to attend.

Do keep in mind, when you do this you are giving the house as a gift to your daughter. You will not be able to sell the house until your daughter turns 20, except in the case where you can convince a judge that the sale is in your daughter's best interest. You will no longer have any control or interest in the property.

Sorry to hear about your divorce. Hope it all works out for you.

Thanks! that is what guessed! what can I say, ,, when here back home I am a bit ofside, I made contact with thai lawyer,he told me this could be done, maybe some missunderstanding were my daughter is staying have ocured? I even payed him to do the needed paperwork for this,, and wanted him to atend my ex when she went to the ampur for signing over house to daughter. Ofcourse ex think that she dont need any help,,, and swallows whatever they say at ampur,,! if the atourothy of a lawyer with knowlighe,,were present,,, ? it might have tured out diffrent?

it´s never the smoth way,, if one wants anything done you have to get it done yourself! to expect someone to follow your guide lines,,,,

well,, I recon that I can have house signed over next time we are in thailand if it wount be possible with daughter here , atleast I´ll soon have the usufrukt on the house.

It may be sorted out this following week ,, just have to wait and see,

I went the land office in Phuket for the same reason only my wife and I are not going to divorce. We both wanted some land put in our daughter's name. We were told at the land office that because my daughter has both Thai and US passport, she could not own land in Thailand even though we both live together in Thailand. In the end I had to sign a document at the land office giving my wife the right to buy the land stating that the money used to buy the land was money she earned before our marriage. She left yesterday to travel from Phuket to Loei to buy the land and I am waiting for Monday when she will go to the Ampur to attempt to buy the land using the document that I signed here in Phuket.

[NanLaew]

^ per my (and other) posts in your other thread, the Phuket land office is wrong in their assertion re- dual citizenship.

[MikeyIdea]

To be able to transfer land, the new owner must sign the land papers. My daughter was just a bit over 2 years old so her fingerprint is on the land papers instead of signature. This is standard procedure. To my knowledge, you cannot transfer land without the new owner being present, good is that.

You cannot get an usufruct or more than 3 year lease registered at the land office on land owned by a minor. It is easy to give to minors and difficult to take away, you will need court decision and you won't get that (good for the child? hardly). Your lawyer is wrong. Usufruct if the wife owns the land yes, child no. Best for the childs future should be that the child owns the land I would think (if you have shared custody)

The house book is simply a register of people living at the address and means nothing more than that

What is more important is if YOU are a legal relative of your own child or not... If you registered the marriage in Thailand, then you are, if you did not, then the mother has sole custody of your child (in Thailand). Your name or the birth certificate means nothing until it has been confirmed (either at juvenile court if child is under approx 7 years old, varies from place to place - or at the local amphur where the child has her tabien baan (house register) if the child is approx 7 years old and all 3! agree - age varies, I legitimized my daughter at the amphur when she was less than 3 years old and her mother signed on behalf of the child, this is unusual, total cost less than 200 bath). Thai law is deliberately written this way to protect the child, I don't find this entirely bad

Good Luck

Edited December 13, 2010 by MikeyIdea

[Mario2008]

Don't agree with the registration of the marriage in Thailand being necessary to have joined custody. There is joined custody regardless of that as they were married. It just needs to be a legal married, the fact if it was abroad or in Thailand is not important.

What the registration of the marriage will do is make the Thai government aware that they were married, nothing more. The father doesn't need to legitimize the child, showing a certified copy of the marriage certificate to proof they were married should be enough to claim joined custody. 9Of course it wouldn't be a surprise if the authorithies would insist on registering the marriage (and divorce) in Thailand as well.

What a Thai court will not recognize is a provision about the custody of the child made abroad.

[MikeyIdea]

As always, I agree with everything you say, I just worry about the practicality of it all and how the father would prove that he has shared custody in Thailand if a problem were to arise. All records in Thailand shows that the mother has sole custody until something else has been registered.

The father can just petition the court and the court will acknowledge the marriage, then cancel it and fathers legitimization and custody (if not removed) will be registered

[Mario2008]

The problem is that petitioning the court is not possible in this case, as what he wants to petition the court for he already has.

What he might need to do is register the marriage and divorce, that is a different course of action. His foreign marriage (and divorce) are recognized by Thailand.

[MikeyIdea]

I have heard of one case where a man married to a Thai national abroad (not married in Thailand) wanted divorce and custody and he petitioned the court here in Thailand to achieve that. I do not know how technically the court handled the case but the man walked away formally divorced according to Thai law and with sole custody of the child according to Thai law - The wife / mother never showed up despite given several opportunities so the court finally ruled without her, hence the sole custody

I assumed that the court first legalised the foreign marriage then annulled it, I may be wrong as I actually don't know the details, apologies. What I do know for sure is that the child has one parent with parental rights, amphurs computers show father as sole guardian and the wife shows as divorced

Edit: Forgot about the wifes status

Edited December 13, 2010 by MikeyIdea

[gregb]

You cannot get an usufruct or more than 3 year lease registered at the land office on land owned by a minor. It is easy to give to minors and difficult to take away, you will need court decision and you won't get that (good for the child? hardly). Your lawyer is wrong. Usufruct if the wife owns the land yes, child no. Best for the childs future should be that the child owns the land I would think (if you have shared custody)

Curiosity question here. I know it is possible to transfer title to a piece of land that has a usufruct on it, and the usufruct remains intact despite the new owner. Does that mean it is possible to transfer the land into the child's name with a usufruct, assuming the usufruct existed before the transfer? You can not give debt to a child, but this would be something different than that. It is simply that the land that has been gifted to him has restrictions (a usufruct), same as if the land had an easement, for example.

It seems like this would be allowed. I've never heard of anyone doing it, so I don't know if it has ever been tested.

Does anyone know the law here?

[sweeex]

To be able to transfer land, the new owner must sign the land papers. My daughter was just a bit over 2 years old so her fingerprint is on the land papers instead of signature. This is standard procedure. To my knowledge, you cannot transfer land without the new owner being present, good is that.

You cannot get an usufruct or more than 3 year lease registered at the land office on land owned by a minor. It is easy to give to minors and difficult to take away, you will need court decision and you won't get that (good for the child? hardly). Your lawyer is wrong. Usufruct if the wife owns the land yes, child no. Best for the childs future should be that the child owns the land I would think (if you have shared custody)

The house book is simply a register of people living at the address and means nothing more than that

What is more important is if YOU are a legal relative of your own child or not... If you registered the marriage in Thailand, then you are, if you did not, then the mother has sole custody of your child (in Thailand). Your name or the birth certificate means nothing until it has been confirmed (either at juvenile court if child is under approx 7 years old, varies from place to place - or at the local amphur where the child has her tabien baan (house register) if the child is approx 7 years old and all 3! agree - age varies, I legitimized my daughter at the amphur when she was less than 3 years old and her mother signed on behalf of the child, this is unusual, total cost less than 200 bath). Thai law is deliberately written this way to protect the child, I don't find this entirely bad

Good Luck

Hi MikeyIdea, we, my wife and I were not regiserd as married in thailand ,nor in sweden ! just williage marriage, I saw her as wife and therefor write like that!

But we made this legitimation of our daughter at the local ampur , with birth certificate from embassy, and papers showing us with shared custody in sweden, that translated int thai and gone through /stamped by legalization byro in bkk before going to ampur,

and I have my name as father in the house book aswell, does´nt that give me shared custody of our daughter in thailand? I thought so anyway??

/thanks

[MikeyIdea]

You cannot get an usufruct or more than 3 year lease registered at the land office on land owned by a minor. It is easy to give to minors and difficult to take away, you will need court decision and you won't get that (good for the child? hardly). Your lawyer is wrong. Usufruct if the wife owns the land yes, child no. Best for the childs future should be that the child owns the land I would think (if you have shared custody)

Curiosity question here. I know it is possible to transfer title to a piece of land that has a usufruct on it, and the usufruct remains intact despite the new owner. Does that mean it is possible to transfer the land into the child's name with a usufruct, assuming the usufruct existed before the transfer? You can not give debt to a child, but this would be something different than that. It is simply that the land that has been gifted to him has restrictions (a usufruct), same as if the land had an easement, for example.

It seems like this would be allowed. I've never heard of anyone doing it, so I don't know if it has ever been tested.

Does anyone know the law here?

I don't know the law in this specific case but that could work. Best would be to ask at the land office, well, get a lawyer ask, too easy to just say no if a farang asks I would think

Thai law has nothing against giving to minors, but it is good at protecting them. I would expect that the usufruct would have to state limitations to what can be done, no business etc. If no risk to the child can be found, then I don't see a reason to reject it

Not sure

[sarahsbloke]

How about .......

Register a loan on the house (from you to her) equal to the value of the house and payable on demand.

This loan can be recorded on the Chanote at the land office even though you aren't a Thai national.

I always get the idea, when a land office says no to something its because.

1) One of the Thais you trusted suggested they find a reason to refuse.

or

2) The land office staff are looking for a bribe.

Edited December 14, 2010 by sarahsbloke

[Mario2008]

You cannot get an usufruct or more than 3 year lease registered at the land office on land owned by a minor. It is easy to give to minors and difficult to take away, you will need court decision and you won't get that (good for the child? hardly). Your lawyer is wrong. Usufruct if the wife owns the land yes, child no. Best for the childs future should be that the child owns the land I would think (if you have shared custody)

Curiosity question here. I know it is possible to transfer title to a piece of land that has a usufruct on it, and the usufruct remains intact despite the new owner. Does that mean it is possible to transfer the land into the child's name with a usufruct, assuming the usufruct existed before the transfer? You can not give debt to a child, but this would be something different than that. It is simply that the land that has been gifted to him has restrictions (a usufruct), same as if the land had an easement, for example.

It seems like this would be allowed. I've never heard of anyone doing it, so I don't know if it has ever been tested.

Does anyone know the law here?

I assumed that as well. You can give your child a gift with the usefruct already on it but not establish it later. Than you need the court approval etc.

But I don't know the law on this.

[Mario2008]

Hi MikeyIdea, we, my wife and I were not regiserd as married in thailand ,nor in sweden ! just williage marriage, I saw her as wife and therefor write like that!

But we made this legitimation of our daughter at the local ampur , with birth certificate from embassy, and papers showing us with shared custody in sweden, that translated int thai and gone through /stamped by legalization byro in bkk before going to ampur,

and I have my name as father in the house book aswell, does´nt that give me shared custody of our daughter in thailand? I thought so anyway??

/thanks

It seems you have legitimized the child under Thai law, although very strictly speaking one could argue that the legitimization is not according to Thai law.

Under Thai law you have joined custody over the child.

[MikeyIdea]

To be able to transfer land, the new owner must sign the land papers. My daughter was just a bit over 2 years old so her fingerprint is on the land papers instead of signature. This is standard procedure. To my knowledge, you cannot transfer land without the new owner being present, good is that.

You cannot get an usufruct or more than 3 year lease registered at the land office on land owned by a minor. It is easy to give to minors and difficult to take away, you will need court decision and you won't get that (good for the child? hardly). Your lawyer is wrong. Usufruct if the wife owns the land yes, child no. Best for the childs future should be that the child owns the land I would think (if you have shared custody)

The house book is simply a register of people living at the address and means nothing more than that

What is more important is if YOU are a legal relative of your own child or not... If you registered the marriage in Thailand, then you are, if you did not, then the mother has sole custody of your child (in Thailand). Your name or the birth certificate means nothing until it has been confirmed (either at juvenile court if child is under approx 7 years old, varies from place to place - or at the local amphur where the child has her tabien baan (house register) if the child is approx 7 years old and all 3! agree - age varies, I legitimized my daughter at the amphur when she was less than 3 years old and her mother signed on behalf of the child, this is unusual, total cost less than 200 bath). Thai law is deliberately written this way to protect the child, I don't find this entirely bad

Good Luck

Hi MikeyIdea, we, my wife and I were not regiserd as married in thailand ,nor in sweden ! just williage marriage, I saw her as wife and therefor write like that!

But we made this legitimation of our daughter at the local ampur , with birth certificate from embassy, and papers showing us with shared custody in sweden, that translated int thai and gone through /stamped by legalization byro in bkk before going to ampur,

and I have my name as father in the house book aswell, does´nt that give me shared custody of our daughter in thailand? I thought so anyway??

/thanks

House book (tabien baan) means nothing, forget it, it is just a register of who lives at the address and nothing else. Most Thais don't know how insignificant that book is

Where was your child born?

Swedish rules follow Thai rules in this case and child born in Thailand where father is Swedish and the mother Thai can not get a Swedish citizenship unless child is legitimized (as father is not legal father until that is done). Child born to Swedish mother and Thai father is legitimized according to Thai law and no legitimization process is needed for that case. Legitimization is done at the amphur if all 3! parties agree and child is around 7 years old or at juvenile court or by registering marriage in Thailand. It sounds like you went the other way around which would only have been possible if the child was born in Sweden. Yes, that is also possible.

I am assuming your child was born in Sweden and "you went the other way"; I don't know if the registration you did both legitimized you and gave you shared custody or if it only legitimized you. It is very easy to check if you have shared custody actually. Just go to the amphur with the childs Thai birth certificate, your own passport and ask if you can get form por kor 11, that's a form that states shared custody

Sorry for making you worried but you didn't tell me that the child was born in Sweden either

[sweeex]

To be able to transfer land, the new owner must sign the land papers. My daughter was just a bit over 2 years old so her fingerprint is on the land papers instead of signature. This is standard procedure. To my knowledge, you cannot transfer land without the new owner being present, good is that.

You cannot get an usufruct or more than 3 year lease registered at the land office on land owned by a minor. It is easy to give to minors and difficult to take away, you will need court decision and you won't get that (good for the child? hardly). Your lawyer is wrong. Usufruct if the wife owns the land yes, child no. Best for the childs future should be that the child owns the land I would think (if you have shared custody)

The house book is simply a register of people living at the address and means nothing more than that

What is more important is if YOU are a legal relative of your own child or not... If you registered the marriage in Thailand, then you are, if you did not, then the mother has sole custody of your child (in Thailand). Your name or the birth certificate means nothing until it has been confirmed (either at juvenile court if child is under approx 7 years old, varies from place to place - or at the local amphur where the child has her tabien baan (house register) if the child is approx 7 years old and all 3! agree - age varies, I legitimized my daughter at the amphur when she was less than 3 years old and her mother signed on behalf of the child, this is unusual, total cost less than 200 bath). Thai law is deliberately written this way to protect the child, I don't find this entirely bad

Good Luck

Hi MikeyIdea, we, my wife and I were not regiserd as married in thailand ,nor in sweden ! just williage marriage, I saw her as wife and therefor write like that!

But we made this legitimation of our daughter at the local ampur , with birth certificate from embassy, and papers showing us with shared custody in sweden, that translated int thai and gone through /stamped by legalization byro in bkk before going to ampur,

and I have my name as father in the house book aswell, does´nt that give me shared custody of our daughter in thailand? I thought so anyway??

/thanks

House book (tabien baan) means nothing, forget it, it is just a register of who lives at the address and nothing else. Most Thais don't know how insignificant that book is

Where was your child born?

Swedish rules follow Thai rules in this case and child born in Thailand where father is Swedish and the mother Thai can not get a Swedish citizenship unless child is legitimized (as father is not legal father until that is done). Child born to Swedish mother and Thai father is legitimized according to Thai law and no legitimization process is needed for that case. Legitimization is done at the amphur if all 3! parties agree and child is around 7 years old or at juvenile court or by registering marriage in Thailand. It sounds like you went the other way around which would only have been possible if the child was born in Sweden. Yes, that is also possible.

I am assuming your child was born in Sweden and "you went the other way"; I don't know if the registration you did both legitimized you and gave you shared custody or if it only legitimized you. It is very easy to check if you have shared custody actually. Just go to the amphur with the childs Thai birth certificate, your own passport and ask if you can get form por kor 11, that's a form that states shared custody

Sorry for making you worried but you didn't tell me that the child was born in Sweden either

good morning, No, not really worried !

Yes she is born in sweden, and we "went the other way around"

We actually agree how to care for our daughter so far , and she is at the pressent here with me, will visit and be with mother when able and when future shool alows that,,

what I now want is to have al papers surrounding the house done when we still agree.

But if I cant get usufruckt from our daughter more than 3 years ? maybe it need to be usufruckt from ex until daughter adult?

I would like to " secure" the house for me and daughter , so it wount be sold if future problem occur for ex wife,, ex wount sign it over to me,,, she want to " secure" it for daughter´s use in future,,

so,,, it seems to be a jungle of rules regarding this,,,

Thanks,

[MikeyIdea]

Glad that you and the ex are still on talking terms, it is normally the child that has the most difficult time in a separation. So child stays with father (in the country where the child was born and has lived all her life) while mother goes back to Thailand, father will give child opportunity to see mother when money and school allows, that sounds good for the child and fair I think. If mother wants to see her child more, then she can stay in Sweden but I bet she doesn't want to do that, too cold

I think you should check and confirm at the amphur next time you come to Thailand to make sure that you are registered as having shared custody in the amphurs computer, you probably do but better check.

Someone must own the house. Who is owner according to the chanote tii dinn? That is the owner of the house. It would not surprise me if it is the mother. Then she already has full control over the house and you should be glad that she is prepared to make arrangements, she doesn't have to and you cannot force her.

2 options I think;

1) Child owns house, no lease or usufruct. Assume child has 2 legal guardians in Thailand and mother has same right to house as you do. She could in the future go in and change locks etc and the only thing you can do is to sue her to get access to your childs property. House cannot be sold without court decision so should be very safe from that perspective. You are not in a very good position if mother takes physical control of the property and refuses to leave though -> court to get shared access

2) Mother owns house and register usufruct to you until child reach 20 years old on chanote tii dinn, you get unconditional access to house until then. Mother transfer ownership to child. We don't know if chanote tii din with usufruct registered can be transferred to child or not but perhaps that is the best option available anyway. The mother loves her child and won't cheat her - open question about if mother dies and heritage if she has other children though - I don't know that part

I like option 2 IF land with usufruct can be transferred to child, otherwise option 1. Option mother owns house no usufruct is a very bad idea, mother can sell or take out loans on the house and no one can stop her if she wants to

mario2008 and gregb, any better ideas, clarifications?

Edited December 14, 2010 by MikeyIdea

[sweeex]

Glad that you and the ex are still on talking terms, it is normally the child that has the most difficult time in a separation. So child stays with father (in the country where the child was born and has lived all her life) while mother goes back to Thailand, father will give child opportunity to see mother when money and school allows, that sounds good for the child and fair I think. If mother wants to see her child more, then she can stay in Sweden but I bet she doesn't want to do that, too cold

I think you should check and confirm at the amphur next time you come to Thailand to make sure that you are registered as having shared custody in the amphurs computer, you probably do but better check.

Someone must own the house. Who is owner according to the chanote tii dinn? That is the owner of the house. It would not surprise me if it is the mother. Then she already has full control over the house and you should be glad that she is prepared to make arrangements, she doesn't have to and you cannot force her.

2 options I think;

1) Child owns house, no lease or usufruct. Assume child has 2 legal guardians in Thailand and mother has same right to house as you do. She could in the future go in and change locks etc and the only thing you can do is to sue her to get access to your childs property. House cannot be sold without court decision so should be very safe from that perspective. You are not in a very good position if mother takes physical control of the property and refuses to leave though -> court to get shared access

2) Mother owns house and register usufruct to you until child reach 20 years old on chanote tii dinn, you get unconditional access to house until then. Mother transfer ownership to child. We don't know if chanote tii din with usufruct registered can be transferred to child or not but perhaps that is the best option available anyway. The mother loves her child and won't cheat her - open question about if mother dies and heritage if she has other children though - I don't know that part

I like option 2 IF land with usufruct can be transferred to child, otherwise option 1. Option mother owns house no usufruct is a very bad idea, mother can sell or take out loans on the house and no one can stop her if she wants to

mario2008 and gregb, any better ideas, clarifications?

Many thanks,, Actually we are right now at option 2 ,, mother owns the house, and she have signed the usufrukt, for me 20 years on the house. I´ll have the papers sent to me for signing and returning to thailand soon,

so,,That makes this situation quite good for me and daughter,, doesn´t it?

As far as I know my ex,, she would under no sircumstances harm or misstreat our daughter,

I will check with ampur about shared custody upon next trip,

And when this usufrukt paperworks is al done ,, I dont have any reason "pait the devil on wall" (a swed saying! if you expekt trouble to arise)

[Mario2008]

The usefruct is now for 20 year, it can be for up to 30 years OR for till you die.

Donating land with a usefruct already established on it to the child should be no problem.

(Are we talking about land, a house or both?)

Ownership is now in the hand of the mother, not in the hands of your child. For the duration of the usefruct you have a say over the house, basically you cannot sell it but can do all other things such as renting it out.

[sweeex]

The usefruct is now for 20 year, it can be for up to 30 years OR for till you die.

Donating land with a usefruct already established on it to the child should be no problem.

(Are we talking about land, a house or both?)

Ownership is now in the hand of the mother, not in the hands of your child. For the duration of the usefruct you have a say over the house, basically you cannot sell it but can do all other things such as renting it out.

Mario2008,, It´s a town house, and exactly what goes with the land it stand on,, ? I am unsertain of?

[MikeyIdea]

Are you safe? Well, you have legal grounds to stand on (once it's legally registered). Saying that though... If the mother were to change locks and take over the house, then your only answer can be to sue her. You will eventually win but it will take time and you will hardly get fully compensated for your lawyers costs even. I don't think your ex would ever mistreat the child, women have a tendency to revenge their ex husbands though Your ex sounds like a very reasonable woman and you have the same goals, the child, you should be OK

Townhouse and we are 99% sure talking about land and house

Mario2008 is very knowledgeable, take his advice

[Bung]

I also am in a similar situation and need some advice as I am thinking of moving on a house here in Chiang Mai.

I've read through the threads regarding this but everyones situation is a little different so here is mine:

I am divorced from my Thai wife. We have a 9 year old son born in Thailand with my surname. I have full custody of him. If I buy a house I want to put it in my sons name as obviously I don't want to give it to my ex wife. As I understand it if I do this I can't sell the house without court approval and he cannot do anything with it until he is 20. That is how I want it but:

I would like to secure for myself past him turning 20 if that if that is possible?

Do I need any lawyer involvement or do I just take him to the amphur/ land office and have his name signed on the chanote?

Am I missing anything? It seems like a good way to have a secure home without any involvement from my ex wife (she will be living there with him while I am away working btw. We still are on good terms)

TIA

[InterestedObserver]

Ex-wife? Are you legally divorced in Thailand? Then how can your ex-wife get her hands on the house? Just don't put anything in your ex-wife's name. The only thing that meets your requirements is a 30 year lease, usufruct or superifices from a third party land owner. Your son owning the land now is not going to do you any good in 11+ years.

Edited January 5, 2011 by InterestedObserver

[trogers]

If I buy a house I want to put it in my sons name as obviously I don't want to give it to my ex wife. As I understand it if I do this I can't sell the house without court approval and he cannot do anything with it until he is 20. That is how I want it but:

I would like to secure for myself past him turning 20 if that if that is possible?

Am I missing anything? It seems like a good way to have a secure home without any involvement from my ex wife (she will be living there with him while I am away working btw. We still are on good terms)

Buy a condo in your name only. If your son is good to you, the condo is his after you are gone, 'else...

[Bung]

OK so whos name would I put the house in? I'm pretty sure it will need to be in a Thais name and who better than my own son?

Thanks for the reply, I have made some mistakes in the past (well not me really....) just want to not make any more problems.

I have a company that I just closed, not interested in that route, think putting it in my sons name the best option for me?

[huawei]

My daughter ( mixed) had had the house in her name for 7 years.Any sale will require court supervision under the age of 20.

[InterestedObserver]

Ownership of the actual house can be in your foreign name. The land the house sits on is the problem. You need a Thai to give you a 30 year lease or usufruct or superificies. In theory your son can own the land and give you (register) the land rights as mentioned, upon court approval. You need to look beyond when your son becomes of legal age and can sell the land, if unencumbered. The foreign owned condo option is the easiest, most secure way to go without involving any Thais.

[chiangmaibruce]

This issue of putting land in a child's name in conjunction with a usufruct to protect the interests of the fpreigner parent was addressed in this thread:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Land-hose-Child-s-Usufunct-t357192.html

You'll see that a Thai fellow made an interesting contribution to the thread ... I haven't gotten around to getting the info that he mentioned (via a link) translated ... if anyone does, I 'd be most grateful if they could let me know via PM