Nong Khai-Padang Besar High-Speed Train Construction To Be Done In 4 Years: Suthep

[webfact]

Nong Khai-Padang Besar high-speed train construction to be done in 4 years: Suthep

Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban said the construction of the Nong Khai-Bangkok-Padang Besar high-speed train will start next year and will be completed in four years.

Suthep said he visited China to discuss the project in details on Saturday.

Suthep said the Chinese government asked him to speed up drafting conditions and seek a parliamentary approval before the contract for the construction will be signed in March or April.

Suthep said he also asked China to provide soft loan for the construction.

-- The Nation 2010-12-13

[apetley]

It's taken the best part of a year to upgrade about 2 km's of highway just north of our village from 2 to 4 lane.

I'll be amazed if this highspeed rail is completed anywhere near that schedule.

Is the route even confirmed yet and all the land required 'bought'?

[jonclark]

Holy smoke 4 years for how much track to be laid (about 1000 km +) - The BTS extension's taken 3 years and that's was only about 20km of extra track. . Pigs Fly spring to mind, unless of course the Chinese are running the entire project, including the Thai part!!!

[webfact]

China, Thailand to speed up construction of Trans-Asia Rail network

BANGKOK, Dec 13 – Thailand and China agreed to speed up construction of the Trans-Asia Railway (TAR) with construction of rail tracks from Nongkhai to Malaysia’s Padang Besar via Bangkok expected to start in 2011, Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban.

After returning from his trip to China last week, Mr Suthep said it was agreed in principle between China and Thailand to build the Nongkhai-Bangkok railway as part of the Trans-Asia Railway.

The negotiations concluded with an agreement to speed up construction of the railway route from Nongkhai-Bangkok-Pedang Besar to link with railways in Malaysia and Singapore. It is expected to be completed in four years, Mr Suthep said.

The deputy prime minister added he was confident the Trans-Asia Railway if completed will facilitate better communication among the three countries' peoples and boost local economic development in many areas.

Mr Suthep said Thailand requested that China apply the same management plan on loans and interest as that of the Chinese-supported railway construction in Laos.

China asked the Thai government to accelerate details on the agreement to seek parliamentary approval in pushing for the signing of a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) between Thailand and China in late March or early April while construction will start in 2011.

“I do not know clear details on the investment budget at the moment but if China agreed to use the same principle as that applied to Laos, the 480 km rail route will cost about four to five billion Yuan (US$600-750 million),” Mr Suthep said.

However, the cost of railway construction in Thailand may not be as high as in Laos because most areas for the planned rail route in Thailand are plains not foothills as in the Lao PDR, the deputy prime minister said. (MCOT online news)

-- TNA 2010-12-13

[rubl]

Ignore any minor details like various impact studies, involvement of people who get a high-speed link through their back garden, etc., etc., etc. Start now I'd say.

BTW, how about those BTS, MRT, SRT link extensions we've been hearing about for years? The SRT Airport link may be used as an example, it's highspeed, no same-level crossings, 30 - 40 odd kilometers. How long did that take?

[RickBradford]

This project will surely follow the existing main line from Nong Khai to Bangkok, rather than be a completely greenfield line.

There may be bits that need straightening out, better track bedding, new rails and so on, but nothing unsurmountable. A big new station will be needed at Bang Seu to prevent the 45-minute crawl into Hua Lampong, and provide through service to Malaysia.

Then again, the Thai track record (ha-ha) on completing infrastructure projects is not good at all.

[blackout]

how about those BTS, MRT, SRT link extensions we've been hearing about for years? The SRT Airport link may be used as an example, it's highspeed, no same-level crossings, 30 - 40 odd kilometers. How long did that take?

hey come-on! it took bangkok like...4+ decades to just start build the BTS for real. What the matter about waiting another decade for the extension?!

as for the height speed train? well, look at how long it took for them to start build BTS and the (new) airport as the case studies. the Chinese will have to wait about that lone for sure. they will usually talks and studies the same project over and over again whenever the government is changed.

[Cnxforever]

Why would Suthep go to China anyway - what does he know about railways? Making sure his relatives in the South get their cut?

The Chinese must know how corrupt Mega-Projects are in Thailand ! If not they could ask Gordon Wu - sure he has lots of nice things to say about joint ventures here!

Then there is the question of once the money has been been flowing and the government here changes - are the Chinese aware that they will have to "re-negotiate" as everybody here wants his share and his hand in the cookie jar - of course the money already paid by then will have conveniently disappeared.

What Suthep says are just empty words - as always - nobody here cares if this railway can be finished within the time frame he mentions - or will ever be finished - the only thing they care about is that the money is in their pockets - of course the contracts will have to be signed in a hurry (March / April? - before a possible house dissolution) - before possible elections - and if the government should change I am sure the new one will have very deep pockets as well.

Edited December 13, 2010 by Cnxforever

[rubl]

This subject seems to come back once a month. Rather than replying again, let's just point to previous topics.

201-10-26:

2010-11-27:

[Bagwan]

How long has it taken to upgrade the road from Pattaya to Jomtien? And the present state is one of chaos.

When asked to wait and am told "Only two minutes, sir"  I always feel moved to enquire whether that will be two farang minutes (hands inches apart) or two Thai minutes (arms outstretched). It never fails to get a smile. Four years? Is that farang years or Thai years?

[lopburi3]

A report today says a 200km journey will take two hours and cost 500 baht. Not sure how that computes to a 200-250kph train system.

[animatic]

4 years to repair the roadbed, 3 more to order a 3rd set of replacement rails made with proper steel mixture, 2 more years to correct the 1st 30km that were installed at the wrong track spacing, 4 more years to make the track set south of Bangkok match the track set north of Bangkok, 6 years to decide which side of the tracks the news station will be placed, 3 more years to vote on a designer to do it, 3 years to replace bridges that don't allow the new cars to pass, because they were checked with the wrong specs, 1 year to rewrite the specs, and 1 year to figure out how to profit on the rewrite, 6 years to design the tax collectors booth and 3 for the immigration platform, 15 to get the computer system working on DOS, and stop the hacking on the system.....

[Thai at Heart]

This project will surely follow the existing main line from Nong Khai to Bangkok, rather than be a completely greenfield line.

There may be bits that need straightening out, better track bedding, new rails and so on, but nothing unsurmountable. A big new station will be needed at Bang Seu to prevent the 45-minute crawl into Hua Lampong, and provide through service to Malaysia.

Then again, the Thai track record (ha-ha) on completing infrastructure projects is not good at all.

Do you realise how many people are living right next to the old lines and how tight the access is for example for the line as it moves through the up country cities? I know of one up country city very well, where the line has to cross at least 6 level crossings getting into the city station, and about 50 new town houses have been built in the last 2 years only 10 metres from the existing line and 300m from the main station. The line then proceeds behind a new major shopping mall at a distance of about 10 m from the boundary with slum housing on the other side of the line.

Map of up country train station

Some people can virtually reach out of their bedroom windows and touch the currently very "low speed" trains as they go past. Maybe the plan is to build the track and hope that the wind turbulence caused by the trains blows down any property too close to the line.

There isn't room to even contemplate building a raised high speed track, or are we going to run the risk of Somchai darting across the line on a red light, or the rural farmers to drive their cattle across the line every day as they do now? Or will the train simply run at the same speed as existing trains once it gets close to any habitation?

I can't see how they are going to be able to run a high speed track along side the old one. Better still, I don't understand why, if they want to do this properly, they would even consider following the old line. Most of the cities now up country have ring roads, which despite envisioning something like the M25 in London, are only about 10 minutes from downtown in most cases. Make the lines skirt the ring roads. It makes no sense or I doubt is even logistically possible to run along the same lines/land as the existing track.

[jybkk]

A report today says a 200km journey will take two hours and cost 500 baht. Not sure how that computes to a 200-250kph train system.

My understanding is that high-speed means "faster than the current trains in Thailand".

Considering they are now cruising at around 50-70 km/h, going higher than a hundred seems high speed.

It actually makes more sense here to do this kind of "modern express rail" than building a real high-speed line with high-tech trains and more than 200km/h speeds..

[tombkk]

A report today says a 200km journey will take two hours and cost 500 baht. Not sure how that computes to a 200-250kph train system.

My understanding is that high-speed means "faster than the current trains in Thailand".

Considering they are now cruising at around 50-70 km/h, going higher than a hundred seems high speed.

It actually makes more sense here to do this kind of "modern express rail" than building a real high-speed line with high-tech trains and more than 200km/h speeds..

They are planning a High-Speed Rail system in Thailand, believe me. High-speed is defined at 200 km/h and higher in the railway world.

New tracks will be built (meter gauge), and the current discussion is only about how many of these will be dual-track. Or has this been decided yet? Quite possible.

[LaoPo]

So far mostly negative comments on the High-Speed train construction to be done but that's not surprising anymore on TV..is it, negative commenting ?

Most complainers forget that China has an enormous know how in constructing these High Speed Train tracks and most posters think of constructing traditional train railways but there's more to it.

Over 85% of track on the Beijing–Tianjin Intercity Railway is laid on viaducts (shown). Chinese builders use elevated lines to keep high-speed rail tracks straight and level over uneven terrain, and to save on land acquisition costs.

A prefabricated section of the elevated track being installed on the Harbin-Dalian High Speed Railway in October 2010.

From: http://en.wikipedia....hina#Technology Technology

I don't know what the Thai- and Chinese Governments are planning but I think they're not stupid and that the plans have been drafted already, a long time ago.

China has already 7,500 km of High Speed rail network running in service.

The speed record has just been set on the Beijing > Shanghai vv rail at a stunning speed of 486.1 km/hr on December 3 -2010

The brandnew Beijing Shanghai High Speed Rail Link has an OPERATING SPEED of 380 km/hr over a distance of 1.300 km !!

"Construction work began on April 18, 2008. Track-laying was started on July 19, 2010, and completed on November 15, 2010.^{[12] "}

http://en.wikipedia....ay#Construction

But, I suppose the negative posters' Grandparents would never have believed that their Grand Children would be able to travel to Thailand in a Large Bird in just half a day................ and if they would have known about trains, travelling at a speed of more than 350-450 km/hr they would have called a shrink...

LaoPo

[wayne03]

After reading these articles about the High speed link how will Thailand sort out the level crossings,cattle and people walking down the tracks as I have seen in many locations around Thailand.They would have to install security fencing plus new level crossings to stop the motor bikes and cars jumping the gates and I think that this will be a major problem as these trains could easy de-rail like the car that went over the side of the M62 onto the track killing many people.

I have worked for the railways for many years and hope the Thai's have thought about these problems and in the UK we still have level crossing accidents sometimes.

They will need millions of concrete sleepers for the new track to sit plus new track drainage as the country has severe rain for months.

[LaoPo]

After reading these articles about the High speed link how will Thailand sort out the level crossings,cattle and people walking down the tracks as I have seen in many locations around Thailand.They would have to install security fencing plus new level crossings to stop the motor bikes and cars jumping the gates and I think that this will be a major problem as these trains could easy de-rail like the car that went over the side of the M62 onto the track killing many people.

I have worked for the railways for many years and hope the Thai's have thought about these problems and in the UK we still have level crossing accidents sometimes.

They will need millions of concrete sleepers for the new track to sit plus new track drainage as the country has severe rain for months.

Obviously, you didn't see/read post # 16.

You think High Speed rail links have crossings ???...when trains with 350 km/hr pass by ?

LaoPo

[SamritT]

The chinese can do it. But for the Thai's, ha aha aha ahaha ha ha.

[LaoPo]

The chinese can do it. But for the Thai's, ha aha aha ahaha ha ha.

Together they can and will.

LaoPo

[SamritT]

Have you notice; the chinese NGV buses in Bangkok, hardly 2 years, and they all are falling apart. Worst, the BRT buses, hardly 4 months, half are broken already.

[animatic]

If it were JUST the Chinese doing the line, maybe there would be more confidence, but having watched the Sky train and Airport link progress and logic of design, positivity comes at a premium. Maybe you have great expectations that the Chinese can miraculously change the S.O.P. of Thai Mega Project management and methods, but that puts you in a minority. A little reflection on actual historical incidents tends to temper optimism, if not close it down totally.

[Ricardo]

Perhaps someone of the stature of a former-PM might be invited to take full personal charge of the project, to ensure faultless-design/construction throughout, and that there would be absolutely no corruption involved in the project ?

Can other posters think of anyone who has previous relevant experience, in taking personal control of a mega-project, and achieving these laudable aims, ideally one who has experience of working closely with the Chinese government ?

[apetley]

So far mostly negative comments on the High-Speed train construction to be done but that's not surprising anymore on TV..is it, negative commenting ?

Most complainers forget that China has an enormous know how in constructing these High Speed Train tracks and most posters think of constructing traditional train railways but there's more to it.

Over 85% of track on the Beijing–Tianjin Intercity Railway is laid on viaducts (shown). Chinese builders use elevated lines to keep high-speed rail tracks straight and level over uneven terrain, and to save on land acquisition costs.

A prefabricated section of the elevated track being installed on the Harbin-Dalian High Speed Railway in October 2010.

From: http://en.wikipedia....hina#Technology Technology

I don't know what the Thai- and Chinese Governments are planning but I think they're not stupid and that the plans have been drafted already, a long time ago.

China has already 7,500 km of High Speed rail network running in service.

The speed record has just been set on the Beijing > Shanghai vv rail at a stunning speed of 486.1 km/hr on December 3 -2010

The brandnew Beijing Shanghai High Speed Rail Link has an OPERATING SPEED of 380 km/hr over a distance of 1.300 km !!

"Construction work began on April 18, 2008. Track-laying was started on July 19, 2010, and completed on November 15, 2010.^{[12] "}

http://en.wikipedia....ay#Construction

But, I suppose the negative posters' Grandparents would never have believed that their Grand Children would be able to travel to Thailand in a Large Bird in just half a day................ and if they would have known about trains, travelling at a speed of more than 350-450 km/hr they would have called a shrink...

LaoPo

It would be very nice if the Thai high speed rail operated at a speed approaching 350-450 kph but I have my doubts.

As for the Beijing–Tianjin high speed link that is just over 100 km's and took the Chinese over 3 years to build.

[LaoPo]

So far mostly negative comments on the High-Speed train construction to be done but that's not surprising anymore on TV..is it, negative commenting ?

Most complainers forget that China has an enormous know how in constructing these High Speed Train tracks and most posters think of constructing traditional train railways but there's more to it.

Over 85% of track on the Beijing–Tianjin Intercity Railway is laid on viaducts (shown). Chinese builders use elevated lines to keep high-speed rail tracks straight and level over uneven terrain, and to save on land acquisition costs.

A prefabricated section of the elevated track being installed on the Harbin-Dalian High Speed Railway in October 2010.

From: http://en.wikipedia....hina#Technology Technology

I don't know what the Thai- and Chinese Governments are planning but I think they're not stupid and that the plans have been drafted already, a long time ago.

China has already 7,500 km of High Speed rail network running in service.

The speed record has just been set on the Beijing > Shanghai vv rail at a stunning speed of 486.1 km/hr on December 3 -2010

The brandnew Beijing Shanghai High Speed Rail Link has an OPERATING SPEED of 380 km/hr over a distance of 1.300 km !!

"Construction work began on April 18, 2008. Track-laying was started on July 19, 2010, and completed on November 15, 2010.^{[12] "}

http://en.wikipedia....ay#Construction

But, I suppose the negative posters' Grandparents would never have believed that their Grand Children would be able to travel to Thailand in a Large Bird in just half a day................ and if they would have known about trains, travelling at a speed of more than 350-450 km/hr they would have called a shrink...

LaoPo

It would be very nice if the Thai high speed rail operated at a speed approaching 350-450 kph but I have my doubts.

As for the Beijing–Tianjin high speed link that is just over 100 km's and took the Chinese over 3 years to build.

Yes, and the Beijing > Shanghai link is 1.300 km long and took a little over 2 years.

And the most difficult and complicated rail link in the world, from Golmud to Lhasa, a distance of 1.142 km was constructed in 5 years with the highest point in the world (with station) at 5.068 meters.

"The line includes the Tanggula Pass, at 5,072 m above sea level the world's highest rail track. More than 960 km, or over 80% of the railway, is at an altitude of more than 4,000 m. There are 675 bridges, totaling 159.88 km, and over half the length of the railway is laid on permafrost."

http://www.chinatibettrain.com/

It's all in the eyes of the beholders; easy to give negative comments but difficult to look into the future...for some.

LaoPo

[LaoPo]

Have you notice; the chinese NGV buses in Bangkok, hardly 2 years, and they all are falling apart. Worst, the BRT buses, hardly 4 months, half are broken already.

Please supply me with a link where it says that the buses are falling apart. I'm most interested.

BTW: are you talking about the new project with the 4.000 NGV natural gas fueled buses?

Very interesting that I can only find YOUR post on Google where it says that the buses are falling apart; are you talking about all 4.000 of them, falling apart ?

LaoPo

[sushi5734]

Well I personally think it would be brilliant as I live in Korat and presumably it will go through the city along the existing line, so it would be a great link to the south and china.

I however would be surprised if it will be ready as quickly as they say unless the Chinese have total control, they may be just as corrupt as the Thai government but at least they get things done. You can be Corrupt and Greedy and still achieve something but when you throw lazy into the mix!!!!!!

[LaoPo]

Well I personally think it would be brilliant as I live in Korat and presumably it will go through the city along the existing line, so it would be a great link to the south and china.

I however would be surprised if it will be ready as quickly as they say unless the Chinese have total control, they may be just as corrupt as the Thai government but at least they get things done. You can be Corrupt and Greedy and still achieve something but when you throw lazy into the mix!!!!!!

There's -still- certainly a lot of corruption in China but being corrupt is a LOT more risky than in Thailand. It will end you up in jail for a very very long time, if not worse....it could cost you your life.

There are many examples of very high-so people in China, having ended up in jail for many years or even the rest of their life and very serious cases resulted in execution (of which I am not a supporter, the death penalty)

LaoPo

[tombkk]

Well I personally think it would be brilliant as I live in Korat and presumably it will go through the city along the existing line, so it would be a great link to the south and china.

A new track will be built. Therefore, never mind the existing 100-year-old line. I do believe that it will stop in Korat though, as that will make a lot of sense. (I've seen the plan of the tracks but don't recall the individual stops.)

I however would be surprised if it will be ready as quickly as they say unless the Chinese have total control, they may be just as corrupt as the Thai government but at least they get things done. You can be Corrupt and Greedy and still achieve something but when you throw lazy into the mix!!!!!!

I don't know anything about corruption, what makes you think of that. But I think that if the Chinese want it to be done quickly, it will be. You'll be surprised, no doubt.

And I travelled in China on a train with a speed of 431 km/h just last month. I don't see any reason why this should not be possible in Thailand.

[elliss]

Why would Suthep go to China anyway - what does he know about railways? Making sure his relatives in the South get their cut?

The Chinese must know how corrupt Mega-Projects are in Thailand !

BIG BROWN ENVELOPES ,

ACCEPTED EVERYWHERE . . :jap: