Palm Tree Lagoon

[kenny999]

Well it looks to be a very similar size to mine, in fact if you take off 3.5kgs for the weigh sling it is the same as mine lol but even if there was not a picture of the scales I would believe the fish was the weight you stated, I don't believe anyone would lie about the weight of a fish or anything else but then thats me, great fish,great picture.

I doubt the sling is 3.5 kg as the poles are aliminium and its all light weight. But soon there will be steel poles in because after the 51kg fish it was all bend up. I just take pictures of the scales too as it is definitive proof of the weight of a fish. (unless i got some weight stacks with me to put in there with the fish)

I did not even try to lift the fish and i am used to handling 125 kg weights for dead lifts.

Here is a picture of a Palm Tree Lagoon mekong caught the other day. I think this one is bigger lol....

Who told you that is a Mekong it is obviously Moby Dick lol

[robblok]

Well it looks to be a very similar size to mine, in fact if you take off 3.5kgs for the weigh sling it is the same as mine lol but even if there was not a picture of the scales I would believe the fish was the weight you stated, I don't believe anyone would lie about the weight of a fish or anything else but then thats me, great fish,great picture.

I doubt the sling is 3.5 kg as the poles are aliminium and its all light weight. But soon there will be steel poles in because after the 51kg fish it was all bend up. I just take pictures of the scales too as it is definitive proof of the weight of a fish. (unless i got some weight stacks with me to put in there with the fish)

I did not even try to lift the fish and i am used to handling 125 kg weights for dead lifts.

Yes it is.. nice fish

ah the famous owner who never got back about my complaining of the scams. Your employees are doing you a disservice.

Here is a picture of a Palm Tree Lagoon mekong caught the other day. I think this one is bigger lol....

[Lucky2]

a newbie and just posting about this lake with his first post. It could be true of course, my experiences are different. I never got any postings back from the presumed farang owner on this thread.

I am not saying this lake is bad, because im sure it has potential. Just the cheating around it and the cutting costs was anoying. Had i have been asked to pay more from the start and not get treated like a walking ATM (the lam scam and giving out small fish at start) my review would have been more positive even though that day the catches were not that good. But that is fishing that can always happen.

The lake is a bit small for my taste too. Even my local lake here (filled with sawai) is bigger. But that is just my personal taste.

A couple of other customers also seemed to enjoy their week judging by the smiles in the photos, but they did seem more preoccupied with the size of the fish they were catching under Benny's guidance, and lost track of other far more important issues like the size of the lake. They also seemed undetered by the size of the livebait but that could have been a clever ploy by Benny convincing them that lum and worms were the way to go.... lol...

The lake has potental??? you mean you know of another fishery with chao phraya over 60kg, and asian redtails over 30kg in it???? It must be a well kept secret....... or do you have the exclusive fishing rites lol....

[kenny999]

a newbie and just posting about this lake with his first post. It could be true of course, my experiences are different. I never got any postings back from the presumed farang owner on this thread.

I am not saying this lake is bad, because im sure it has potential. Just the cheating around it and the cutting costs was anoying. Had i have been asked to pay more from the start and not get treated like a walking ATM (the lam scam and giving out small fish at start) my review would have been more positive even though that day the catches were not that good. But that is fishing that can always happen.

The lake is a bit small for my taste too. Even my local lake here (filled with sawai) is bigger. But that is just my personal taste.

A couple of other customers also seemed to enjoy their week judging by the smiles in the photos, but they did seem more preoccupied with the size of the fish they were catching under Benny's guidance, and lost track of other far more important issues like the size of the lake. They also seemed undetered by the size of the livebait but that could have been a clever ploy by Benny convincing them that lum and worms were the way to go.... lol...

The lake has potental??? you mean you know of another fishery with chao phraya over 60kg, and asian redtails over 30kg in it???? It must be a well kept secret....... or do you have the exclusive fishing rites lol....

Would love to fish there bit just to expensive for me, great fish pictures!!

[robblok]

a newbie and just posting about this lake with his first post. It could be true of course, my experiences are different. I never got any postings back from the presumed farang owner on this thread.

I am not saying this lake is bad, because im sure it has potential. Just the cheating around it and the cutting costs was anoying. Had i have been asked to pay more from the start and not get treated like a walking ATM (the lam scam and giving out small fish at start) my review would have been more positive even though that day the catches were not that good. But that is fishing that can always happen.

The lake is a bit small for my taste too. Even my local lake here (filled with sawai) is bigger. But that is just my personal taste.

A couple of other customers also seemed to enjoy their week judging by the smiles in the photos, but they did seem more preoccupied with the size of the fish they were catching under Benny's guidance, and lost track of other far more important issues like the size of the lake. They also seemed undetered by the size of the livebait but that could have been a clever ploy by Benny convincing them that lum and worms were the way to go.... lol...

The lake has potental??? you mean you know of another fishery with chao phraya over 60kg, and asian redtails over 30kg in it???? It must be a well kept secret....... or do you have the exclusive fishing rites lol....

Nice fish.. but scamming is not nice. You are not even denying it. Seems you find it ok that your clients are getting scammed. Yes the lake has potential but its real small. A bigger lake is more fun more opportunity for the fish to go somewhere.

Like i said b4 i would have had no problems with the lake without the scams.

I can post similar pictures of Bungsamran and that lake is bigger and has nice fish too. But where one fishes is a personal preference. I avoided bungsamran like the plague when they used dual pricing. Now i dont. I do avoid your place now like the plague because of the scams and will be telling others the story. I rather pay a bit more and go to lake IT monster and not worry about padded bills.

You seem to think its ok to pull a fast one on your customers, perhaps you have been here too long.

[jackinbkk]

a newbie and just posting about this lake with his first post. It could be true of course, my experiences are different. I never got any postings back from the presumed farang owner on this thread.

I am not saying this lake is bad, because im sure it has potential. Just the cheating around it and the cutting costs was anoying. Had i have been asked to pay more from the start and not get treated like a walking ATM (the lam scam and giving out small fish at start) my review would have been more positive even though that day the catches were not that good. But that is fishing that can always happen.

The lake is a bit small for my taste too. Even my local lake here (filled with sawai) is bigger. But that is just my personal taste.

A couple of other customers also seemed to enjoy their week judging by the smiles in the photos, but they did seem more preoccupied with the size of the fish they were catching under Benny's guidance, and lost track of other far more important issues like the size of the lake. They also seemed undetered by the size of the livebait but that could have been a clever ploy by Benny convincing them that lum and worms were the way to go.... lol...

The lake has potental??? you mean you know of another fishery with chao phraya over 60kg, and asian redtails over 30kg in it???? It must be a well kept secret....... or do you have the exclusive fishing rites lol....

Nice fish.. but scamming is not nice. You are not even denying it. Seems you find it ok that your clients are getting scammed. Yes the lake has potential but its real small. A bigger lake is more fun more opportunity for the fish to go somewhere.

Like i said b4 i would have had no problems with the lake without the scams.

I can post similar pictures of Bungsamran and that lake is bigger and has nice fish too. But where one fishes is a personal preference. I avoided bungsamran like the plague when they used dual pricing. Now i dont. I do avoid your place now like the plague because of the scams and will be telling others the story. I rather pay a bit more and go to lake IT monster and not worry about padded bills.

You seem to think its ok to pull a fast one on your customers, perhaps you have been here too long.

Well said Rob!

Will be avoiding that place.

[jackinbkk]

lol Roblok this is serious now I actually do think you are right about the Bi-Polar thing, one minute everything is rosey and a few seconds later it's not, making my mind up which flavour ice cream to have can be very annoying I can never make a decision, will have to live with it I suppose lol

Now I hope you can see how annoying it can be if you were to post and then have that post questioned and in my case the weight of the fish disputed even though it was weighed and witnesed by 4 people, yes I was angry because I do not lie about things like that as that would be very sad indeed and also could be seen as attention seeking, okay I only have 2 friends but do you need more? if anyone calls someone else a liar I would stick up for them because there is no reason to say that as you were not there and you have to take there word for it otherwise it just causes problems like the one we have at the moment, as far as I am concerned this is done and dusted it's just going over and over the same thing with you disputing someones post and me getting angry about it which I have every right to do considering you are still bringing my great fish into these posts. anyway happy fishing in the future and hopefully fishy tales (truthfull ones) to tell in the future.

Maybe one day you will be my 3rd friend lol

Could be bad for you if you really are bipolar. I don't know much about it but im sure its not a good thing to have. Choosing the flavor of your ice cream is the least of your worries then.

anyway the fish did not look the weight, lets keep it at that.

Here is a fish that also did not look its weight

But it is 51 kg as the scales show

Well it looks to be a very similar size to mine, in fact if you take off 3.5kgs for the weigh sling it is the same as mine lol but even if there was not a picture of the scales I would believe the fish was the weight you stated, I don't believe anyone would lie about the weight of a fish or anything else but then thats me, great fish,great picture.

It's funny because some fish are quite thin but long, then others are short and fat. I had a mixture of the two on my last trip to Gnao nam. Was also lucky enough to catch a fish I couldn't lift. Got broke off by an absolute monster too. My reel was on full drag for about 15 minutes, at least 150 yards of line out then there were the most violent head shakes i've ever felt. It was like an earthquake. So sorry I didn't get to see that fish. When I asked the guide what it was he said it must have been a very big mekong. It wasn't the arapima because it didn't jump or make sounds of coming up for air. The fish went slowly to the left side of the park. Right down to the end but there was no stopping it. Went through 50lb mono and stole my Owner Gorilla hook.

Still it's all about the fun of pulling them in...

[Lucky2]

Just got back from 3 days fishing for carp at Palm Tree Lagoon.

Fishing was action packed but I didn't manage to hook my big Siamese Carp. Had over 60 rohu, mud carp, a Julians Carp and a new PB Catla carp around 20kg. Several rohu and Mud carp were new Pbs too so overall I was quite happy and gives me a good excuse to go back .

Whilst I was there another bloke fishing on his own nearby, caught several Catla carp and 2 large Chow Praya catfish on lum, 2 nice redtails and another huge Chow Praya (at over 60kg the biggest I have ever seen) on worm. Benny, the Thai boss, fished for few hours down the other end and caught a chow praya and 2 siamese carp, the biggest around 40kg! She is clearly a good angler in her own right and I found her to be very helpful. She was clearly concerned that I had not caught my target fish and went out of her way to provide different consistencies of method mix (at no extra cost) for me to try.

Interestingly, nearly all of the fish came during the middle of the day.

For anyone fishing there for more than a day, the Western Grand Hotel is good value at 850B. I used my own gear but the equipment available was top end Shimano Stella and Finns. For info, I was charged exactly what I was told when I booked.

Hi Pangit,

The chao phraya and if fact all the predators can come out on just about any bait with banana being the bait of the week this week. Local Thai angling expert 'Bung' after guiding a couple of happy customers decided to float fish banana to try and catch some of the big Gourami in the lake. Although he was not successful on the gourami front he did manage to break two lake records with a 9.2kg mrigal followed by an incredible 51kg amazon redtail catfish. He also managed to catch some of the rarely seen bony lipped barb that inhabit the lake.

[rufanuf]

Hi All,

Its been a while since I have had the time to contribute to the forums and read threads I have contributed too...wow this thread really did degenerate didn't it?

Id like to make a few points here that I hope will help clear up a few misunderstandings between all the parties that have contributed to it.

Robblok I have met you personally and know you to be a decent chap, a gentleman, and of course I know Benny and Tim who own and run Palm Tree Lagoon, as I knew the previous owner. In fact I know directly or indirectly most of those that posted in this thread, so I am not taking sides here.

This thread has become in some ways the epitomy of why OUR CUSTOMERS being tourists, not expat anglers, should take with a pinch of salt what they read on forums, and or advice they get from expats OR venue owners! It is also I hope an illustration of why, as much as expat anglers and venue owners alike seem to berate our role in the industry (your comments Zoso about "middleman tour companies") and the venues feeling somehow that the margin the tour operators earn on helping them market their venues and smoothing the experience of the first time angler to their fishery somehow has "no value" and should in fact be going into their pockets. Even experienced expat anglers it seems at times have a very distorted view of the facts, and that's understandable...how can you understand an industry fully that your not involved in? I'm not an accountant but I do keep my own books. Who is more likely qualified to make accurate observations about book keeping methods? You or me Robblok? So why is it any different for a fishing tour operator/guiding service, who has visited most of these fisheries hundreds of times and had to deal with feedback from paying customers, and venue owners whether that feedback be good or bad?

Robblok, I can tell you with a reasonable degree of certainty that Benny would not intentionally try and "rip you off". That's not her character at all. So as good as your Thai might be, your understanding of the people involved is clearly way off the mark. Remember guys when you went to Palm Tree they had only just taken over the business! Give the guys a chance to work out their means of operation!

Also I would like to say that it still bemuses me how expat anglers that apparently "understand" the Thai fishing scene, so clearly DO NOT! That's not a criticism it is simply a fact. I think somewhere on this thread you commented Robblok(or someone) , that Palm Trees prices are all about getting the "tourist dollar' Thats such an inaccurate perception of price differentials between fisheries that I just have to correct it. Again (I have explained this elsewhere on threads and still expat anglers refuse to take note).

Its not the price tag of the fishery that is aimed at the tourists...its the fish the lake contains, and those fish cost money, lots of it, as Zoso accurately points out, HENCE the price tag, whether your an expat angler or a tourist it makes no difference, the fishery still has to at least break even and if its to grow and too improve it has to make a margin. Visiting western anglers have long since lost interest in holes with Mekongs in. They are looking for very specific things that in truth are not available completely anywhere at any single venue, which is why there is a market for fishing tours for anglers with a limited amount of time. Comparing the cost of say Palm Tree to Ngao Nam is just ridiculous, if you understand why the costs to run the place and maintain a stock of fish people want to catch are so much higher then a Mekong fishery.On the other hand it would be equally ridiculous to place an angler on Palm Tree if his specific agenda was a big Mekong, and not a big Arapaima.

Even though tour operators have the most collective knowledge about what anglers want, (having fished with hundreds of anglers at dozens of venues, and gleaning feedback from them all), no venue owners currently listen to the feedback with both ears so we just have to do our best with the fisheries we have. In truth any visiting angler silly enough to tie up all his fishing time on one venue here in Thailand would have lost out on a great fishing experience, that no single fishery can currently provide.

The other common theme on this thread is about lies. Well when it comes to fish sizes they are just fishermans tales...in Thailand imparticular I think its to easy to get carried away and excited when big fish are captured becuase they are truly magnificent fish and we all get excited. Theres a big difference though between knowingly lying about the size of a specimen than there is over estimating due to excitement. I have to downgrade my own estimates on customers catches numerous times becuase I still after 5 years get too excited! However weighing big fish puts them under an enormous amount of stress (except perhaps Mekongs and Chao Praya) which is why if the angler has a true understanding of his catch he will simply just estimate rather than put the fish thru that stress, and take the memory of that catch with him, regardless of the fishes size.

It would be nice to think that everyone on the Thai fishing scene be they expat anglers, venue owners, tour operators and toruist anglers, could learn to appreciate each others different perspectives on subject matter at hand.

[robblok]

rufanuf

You have met met, i don't lie about stuff like this. I would never put someone down if i did not have reasons. As i run no fishing company myself or sell tours i have no stake in putting this lake down.

If i ask for a bucket of lam and i get charged for a bag with the excuse that they had to "order" if for me then i feel cheated. In the end i could sell it back (only used 1 bucket from the bag) for half the price they sold it to me. That is a RIP OFF. Fisheries are able to stock lam its not like they have to special order it and its a non perishable.

I would never have started something negative about it if i did not have that feeling. Also the stunt with the fishes (small to start and later big and drawing straws) made me feel that way. I don't mind paying extra but the feeling of being fleeced just makes me angry. Its one of the few things that makes my blood boiling.

Sure they might have just started it but does that excuse bad behavior ?

The owner (think the guy who posted here) never went into the complaints that shows me how much he respects his customers. I will try to do my best to make stuff like this known so people know what kind of a place it is.

Your experiences might be better because if they rip you off they rip a repeat customer off.

I can accept not catching much as its what happens with angling at times. I cant accept being treated as someone you can rip off.

About weighing... if you use a proper sling there is not much stress for the fish. I have brought 2 slings back from Holland and they do a great job (after being a bit re enforced) at weighing carp and Mekong. All the times the Thai seem to be way off estimating fish, almost everyone including myself thinks fishes are heavier then they really are.

Prices of venue's you might know that better as me, i still think they are much to high and have seen Thai places that do it cheaper. (also airipaima and redtail). Your clearly out there to protect your business and we are the customers who don't want to spend our money that easy. So let say the truth is in the middle.

As for the size of the lake, i find it small. Others might say there are plenty of big fish there (and i believe that). But i like bigger lakes a bit more, its just the feeling.

Because of these experiences i will give this lake a miss when i take my dad and some others to some of the more expensive lakes. I also post at Dutch fishing websites at times and help people find their way in the Thai fishing scene. This lake wont get my support (not that its known there or that i mention it there).

They probably wont loose a nights sleep over it and neither do i, but im like a pitbull with the memory of an elephant when i feel wronged.

[robblok]

I can type over and over my point, and im not going to anymore. Everyone who knows me knows i don't lie about stuff like this. Money was not the problem, i would have paid more but just don't what has happened. I think i leave it at this.

[rufanuf]

rufanuf

You have met met, i don't lie about stuff like this. I would never put someone down if i did not have reasons. As i run no fishing company myself or sell tours i have no stake in putting this lake down.

If i ask for a bucket of lam and i get charged for a bag with the excuse that they had to "order" if for me then i feel cheated. In the end i could sell it back (only used 1 bucket from the bag) for half the price they sold it to me. That is a RIP OFF. Fisheries are able to stock lam its not like they have to special order it and its a non perishable.

I would never have started something negative about it if i did not have that feeling. Also the stunt with the fishes (small to start and later big and drawing straws) made me feel that way. I don't mind paying extra but the feeling of being fleeced just makes me angry. Its one of the few things that makes my blood boiling.

Sure they might have just started it but does that excuse bad behavior ?

The owner (think the guy who posted here) never went into the complaints that shows me how much he respects his customers. I will try to do my best to make stuff like this known so people know what kind of a place it is.

Your experiences might be better because if they rip you off they rip a repeat customer off.

I can accept not catching much as its what happens with angling at times. I cant accept being treated as someone you can rip off.

About weighing... if you use a proper sling there is not much stress for the fish. I have brought 2 slings back from Holland and they do a great job (after being a bit re enforced) at weighing carp and Mekong. All the times the Thai seem to be way off estimating fish, almost everyone including myself thinks fishes are heavier then they really are.

Prices of venue's you might know that better as me, i still think they are much to high and have seen Thai places that do it cheaper. (also airipaima and redtail). Your clearly out there to protect your business and we are the customers who don't want to spend our money that easy. So let say the truth is in the middle.

As for the size of the lake, i find it small. Others might say there are plenty of big fish there (and i believe that). But i like bigger lakes a bit more, its just the feeling.

Because of these experiences i will give this lake a miss when i take my dad and some others to some of the more expensive lakes. I also post at Dutch fishing websites at times and help people find their way in the Thai fishing scene. This lake wont get my support (not that its known there or that i mention it there).

They probably wont loose a nights sleep over it and neither do i, but I'm like a pitbull with the memory of an elephant when i feel wronged.

All these sorts of problems start with misunderstandings. Believe me I am not trying to protect anyone really, i get tired of the misunderstandings too. If I could run my business without having to try and figure out the actions and decisions of venue owners at times I most certainly would (yes they drive me nuts too!), its one of the biggest headaches I have to deal with on behalf of customers, but to solve that problem would involve me spending some 20 million baht or so to get a fishery of my own functioning to western standards with western standards of management.

I read somewhere that the lum was ordered in advance for you by zoso? If that's so how can you expect the fishery owner to then reimburse you for it? I regularly have a half bag or even a full bag of lum left after a session at Bungsamran, I certainly don't expect them to give me a refund for whats left, and I know what their answer would be if I asked. Turning the situation on its head for a moment...IF (and only if) lets say for example Palm Tree DO NOT stock large amounts of lum as a matter of course (perhaps they dont have the customers carp fishing to use it quickly enough before it gets weavel?), you could argue that it was actually a credit to their level of service that they was prepared to go and get 4 bags for you prior to your arrival without payment up front? Just a different way of looking at it Robblok. The issue with a lack of livebaits? Similarly, I know for fact theres misunderstandings there because the best bait for Arapaima is and always has been chicken at Palm Tree LOL. Big livebaits work well for Chao Praya Catfish.

Just to illustrate the point further, I used to have a lot of misunderstandings with lake Monsters(actually still do). It was AND STILL IS NOT clear what is included in their high ticket prices, its also not clear what the rules of the venue actually are because it seems to be a different rule for everyone! To a lesser degree this is true even on Bungsamran.

Because I am aware of this I have learnt how to smooth over those misunderstandings between visiting anglers and the venue. At times it is not easy, and I am left only with a simple observation to pass onto visiting anglers "This is Thailand" or "TIT", to explain Thai logic (or lack of it) but at least they have a frame of reference to take away with them, that does not leave them with a bad taste in their mouth,(I get the bad taste instead and go home to my wife swearing and cursing about the inconsistencies of Thai fishing venue owners, and often those inconsistencies end up costing me money, a days wages) which is what I would have wished for you also, because Palm Tree has some great fish to be caught, if you can get past your dissatisfaction.

The fact of the matter is as you rightly say there are loads of places to fish, prices are all over the place, and in time they will only come down thankfully as Thai venue owners start to understand how to grow their fish quickly to decent sizes inexpensively, its happening everywhere. Just a few years ago a 50kg Arapaima would of cost 30,000BHT or so, now you can get them from 12,000 to 17,000BHT....even so they are so fragile that a 500BHT a day fishery will soon not have any Arapaima in it, becuase the owner would not be able to afford to replace lost fish at those ticket prices (why do you think Bungsamran charge 20,000BHT for one fish?) so take advantage of those low cost tickets, the fish wont be there long. Redtails yes, Arapaima no. Again really its just an indication of the lack of understanding the managers have of their fisheries, and the fish they stock, and why western anglers are prepared to pay to catch them. Mekongs are great as they are as tough as old boots. Carp...yes you can wiegh them, but if you catch a really big old fish (40kg up) and weigh her after a long fight you might be very stressed out yourself to see how much difficulty they sometimes have recovering from that, and be able to swim away from you strongly when released. I know I am. Is it worth the risk for a fish that took maybe 40 years to attain that weight?

[rufanuf]

Although I would just add....we will weigh carp if an angler isnists as everyone wants an accurate weight on them...the key is to be completely prepared before the fish is netted. The most efficient process is:-

Camera and scales already ready, (someone else with you)

1. Fish netted,

2. Baitunner turned on.(You can place the rod back in the rest if you have one)

2. No messing the net out of the water STRAIGHT ONTO THE SCALES

3. The photographer photographs the scales.

4. Net taken off the scales

5. Net and fish onto the unhooking mat

6. Remove the fish from the net

7. Remove the hook from the fish

8. Photograph the fish (same person still with the camera ready at all times)

9. Lower the fish back into the water with the unhooking mat, submersing it in the water

10. Release the fish.(pushing the fish off the matt by holding the wrist of its tail)

11.Weigh the net after the fish is released If you dont know its wet weight)

This is by far the most efficient way to do all the tasks quickly so as to keep a big carp out of the water fora minimum length of time, but of course

depends if you have a helper and a decent unhooking mat, you can do this whole task in about 1min 30 seconds if you and everyone around you knows what the plan is.

Edited July 1, 2011 by rufanuf

[robblok]

Although I would just add....we will weigh carp if an angler isnists as everyone wants an accurate weight on them...the key is to be completely prepared before the fish is netted. The most efficient process is:-

Camera and scales already ready, (someone else with you)

1. Fish netted,

2. Baitunner turned on.(You can place the rod back in the rest if you have one)

2. No messing the net out of the water STRAIGHT ONTO THE SCALES

3. The photographer photographs the scales.

4. Net taken off the scales

5. Net and fish onto the unhooking mat

6. Remove the fish from the net

7. Remove the hook from the fish

8. Photograph the fish (same person still with the camera ready at all times)

9. Lower the fish back into the water with the unhooking mat, submersing it in the water

10. Release the fish.(pushing the fish off the matt by holding the wrist of its tail)

11.Weigh the net after the fish is released If you dont know its wet weight)

This is by far the most efficient way to do all the tasks quickly so as to keep a big carp out of the water fora minimum length of time, but of course

depends if you have a helper and a decent unhooking mat, you can do this whole task in about 1min 30 seconds if you and everyone around you knows what the plan is.

NOw with my slings i just put them in the sling and weigh them. Much better as in a net as it distributes the weight better plus that it does not push the net into the fish. So i first quickly dehook it with a friend, then weigh it and put it back. I almost never take pictures anymore. I might if its exceptionally big (say over 50 real kg's).

The only thing i need to get my hands on is a good unhooking mat. I saw plenty of them in Holland but space was an issue when i came back last month.

[robblok]

As for your other post of misunderstandings, i can put the fish size down on a misunderstanding. I take your word for it as i havent fished there much and you have. So i chalk that one down to misunderstanding.

The lam, Zoso might have ordered it but i certainly did not and only asked for a bucket of lam. Lam does not really perish that fast, it does get weavels in it. I have often fished with lam with weavels in it at BSR because i too have left over bags of lam. I usually put them in my locker. No problem to store them for a week or two. Still don't like how that one played out.

Prices, i really don't care much about prices as i will think about it if its worth it to me or not. If it is i pay for it and if its not i wont. But it would be nice to know what is included in the price ahead of paying. But that is also up to me as i have a mouth to ask such things.

Most of the times i fish in either shadow or bungsamran. Bungsamran only recently because they dropped the dual pricing thing partly.

Next month i might be off to kanchanaburi for a few days of fishing on a lake from a floating raft. According to the friend im going with i should not expect to much fish wise. But I dont really care its more about trying and the surroundings then the actual catching. I would value a fish there more then lets say at BSR because of the skill it takes to get one (plus pure luck).

For november when my old man comes here again, we might go to one of the lakes like lake monster or something like that. Might just be gillains in Phuket as we are driving the car up there because dad thought it a nice way to see the country.

We will be stopping at cha am too for some fishing and some other spots on the way (not only for fishing).

Might also go to Birma for some fishing as it was offered for around 20k 5 days fishing all included (trip visa's food ect) But im not so sure yet as im not a big fan of sea fishing. I will check with dad what he wants to spend and what he likes.

[quiksilva]

Robblok, I'd be keen to learn more about that Burma deal you got that sounds great PM me if you could

Also quick tip for fishing in the reservoirs at Kanchanaburi, or some sure fire action from Pla Krasoob get hold of a gold, bronze or silver spoon (gold has always worked best for me), you should be able to get them in most tackle shops for about 50 Baht each, oh you'll want light tackle though for the best fun.

[KennetMan]

rufanuf

You have met met, i don't lie about stuff like this. I would never put someone down if i did not have reasons. As i run no fishing company myself or sell tours i have no stake in putting this lake down.

If i ask for a bucket of lam and i get charged for a bag with the excuse that they had to "order" if for me then i feel cheated. In the end i could sell it back (only used 1 bucket from the bag) for half the price they sold it to me. That is a RIP OFF. Fisheries are able to stock lam its not like they have to special order it and its a non perishable.

I would never have started something negative about it if i did not have that feeling. Also the stunt with the fishes (small to start and later big and drawing straws) made me feel that way. I don't mind paying extra but the feeling of being fleeced just makes me angry. Its one of the few things that makes my blood boiling.

Sure they might have just started it but does that excuse bad behavior ?

The owner (think the guy who posted here) never went into the complaints that shows me how much he respects his customers. I will try to do my best to make stuff like this known so people know what kind of a place it is.

Your experiences might be better because if they rip you off they rip a repeat customer off.

I can accept not catching much as its what happens with angling at times. I cant accept being treated as someone you can rip off.

About weighing... if you use a proper sling there is not much stress for the fish. I have brought 2 slings back from Holland and they do a great job (after being a bit re enforced) at weighing carp and Mekong. All the times the Thai seem to be way off estimating fish, almost everyone including myself thinks fishes are heavier then they really are.

Prices of venue's you might know that better as me, i still think they are much to high and have seen Thai places that do it cheaper. (also airipaima and redtail). Your clearly out there to protect your business and we are the customers who don't want to spend our money that easy. So let say the truth is in the middle.

As for the size of the lake, i find it small. Others might say there are plenty of big fish there (and i believe that). But i like bigger lakes a bit more, its just the feeling.

Because of these experiences i will give this lake a miss when i take my dad and some others to some of the more expensive lakes. I also post at Dutch fishing websites at times and help people find their way in the Thai fishing scene. This lake wont get my support (not that its known there or that i mention it there).

They probably wont loose a nights sleep over it and neither do i, but I'm like a pitbull with the memory of an elephant when i feel wronged.

All these sorts of problems start with misunderstandings. Believe me I am not trying to protect anyone really, i get tired of the misunderstandings too. If I could run my business without having to try and figure out the actions and decisions of venue owners at times I most certainly would (yes they drive me nuts too!), its one of the biggest headaches I have to deal with on behalf of customers, but to solve that problem would involve me spending some 20 million baht or so to get a fishery of my own functioning to western standards with western standards of management.

I read somewhere that the lum was ordered in advance for you by zoso? If that's so how can you expect the fishery owner to then reimburse you for it? I regularly have a half bag or even a full bag of lum left after a session at Bungsamran, I certainly don't expect them to give me a refund for whats left, and I know what their answer would be if I asked. Turning the situation on its head for a moment...IF (and only if) lets say for example Palm Tree DO NOT stock large amounts of lum as a matter of course (perhaps they dont have the customers carp fishing to use it quickly enough before it gets weavel?), you could argue that it was actually a credit to their level of service that they was prepared to go and get 4 bags for you prior to your arrival without payment up front? Just a different way of looking at it Robblok. The issue with a lack of livebaits? Similarly, I know for fact theres misunderstandings there because the best bait for Arapaima is and always has been chicken at Palm Tree LOL. Big livebaits work well for Chao Praya Catfish.

Just to illustrate the point further, I used to have a lot of misunderstandings with lake Monsters(actually still do). It was AND STILL IS NOT clear what is included in their high ticket prices, its also not clear what the rules of the venue actually are because it seems to be a different rule for everyone! To a lesser degree this is true even on Bungsamran.

Because I am aware of this I have learnt how to smooth over those misunderstandings between visiting anglers and the venue. At times it is not easy, and I am left only with a simple observation to pass onto visiting anglers "This is Thailand" or "TIT", to explain Thai logic (or lack of it) but at least they have a frame of reference to take away with them, that does not leave them with a bad taste in their mouth,(I get the bad taste instead and go home to my wife swearing and cursing about the inconsistencies of Thai fishing venue owners, and often those inconsistencies end up costing me money, a days wages) which is what I would have wished for you also, because Palm Tree has some great fish to be caught, if you can get past your dissatisfaction.

The fact of the matter is as you rightly say there are loads of places to fish, prices are all over the place, and in time they will only come down thankfully as Thai venue owners start to understand how to grow their fish quickly to decent sizes inexpensively, its happening everywhere. Just a few years ago a 50kg Arapaima would of cost 30,000BHT or so, now you can get them from 12,000 to 17,000BHT....even so they are so fragile that a 500BHT a day fishery will soon not have any Arapaima in it, becuase the owner would not be able to afford to replace lost fish at those ticket prices (why do you think Bungsamran charge 20,000BHT for one fish?) so take advantage of those low cost tickets, the fish wont be there long. Redtails yes, Arapaima no. Again really its just an indication of the lack of understanding the managers have of their fisheries, and the fish they stock, and why western anglers are prepared to pay to catch them. Mekongs are great as they are as tough as old boots. Carp...yes you can wiegh them, but if you catch a really big old fish (40kg up) and weigh her after a long fight you might be very stressed out yourself to see how much difficulty they sometimes have recovering from that, and be able to swim away from you strongly when released. I know I am. Is it worth the risk for a fish that took maybe 40 years to attain that weight?

I accept in advance I will probably be chastised as a newbie making by fist post but 'cest la vie'

I have been coming to Thailand fishing regularly for over ten years mainly with Francois of Angling Thailand.

I fished Palm Tree Lagoon last month for a few days. I must say Benny and her team went out of their way to try and catch be my target species, and were great fun to be around even if I didn't understand half of what they were saying.

I particularly wanted to catch a 50kg+ chao phraya, 50kg+ siamese carp, 100kg+ arapaima and a juliens golden price carp of any size, all of which have eluded me over the years.

Under Benny's guidance I managed to achieve all of my goals breaking a number of my previous PB's in the process, and catching 6 new species for me.

I have already booked up for another trip later on in the year, and can't wait.

I have to agree with rafanuf on two accounts. Firstly I can not imagine Benny intentionally ripping anyone off so I think it must have been a misunderstanding which in my experience in Thailand over the years is commonplace,

due to both language and cultural differences.

Secondly, I am also now convinced the chicken seems to be the best bait for arapaima. The first couple of days I concentrated on using livebait because I believed it would be the best bait despite 'Benny', 'Hong', 'Bay' and 'Bung'

telling me chicken was the way to go. The livebait did catch me a lot of gar including an 8kg black gar, but not much else.

On the predator species front:

My chao phraya came out as already mentioned in this thread and much to my amazement on a piece of banana.

The chicken accounted for five huge pacu all over 10kg, several featherback to 5 kg, a 22kg alligator gar, and on the last day a huge arapaima which 'Hong' informed me was the second biggest in the lake and that when it was last weighed was 180kg. Four of us struggled to lift it for the photo...

On the carp front I had 9 siamese carp to 55kg and lost a bigger one at the net, many catla carp to 21kg, a 5kg black carp, and at last a juliens golden price carp.

[stiggy]

Blimey all this complaining about paying money and not getting the target fish you expected.

Its called FISHING not CATCHING, dont matter what you pay sometime you win sometimes not.

Im glad they are arguing on here, leaves me to enjoy some peace and quiet by the bank

[robblok]

Blimey all this complaining about paying money and not getting the target fish you expected.

Its called FISHING not CATCHING, dont matter what you pay sometime you win sometimes not.

Im glad they are arguing on here, leaves me to enjoy some peace and quiet by the bank

Think i posted more then a few times that i don't care that much about my target or not. It was the treatment that i got that was what set me off.

[robblok]

People seem to keep repeating it must have been a language problem. I have lived here for almost 6 years now(non stop not going here 6 years in a row for a holiday). I don't live in a tourist area and speak enough Thai to hold conversation on simple subjects. The different between a bucket and a bag is not one that i would make.

I will grant that i might have been wrong about the best bait. But on the lam i still hold that it was not the proper thing to do. The mix-up might have been because someone else ordered lam, but that was not me.

Its not about the money that would have been around 600 bt that i lost. I don't care much about that but about the treatment.

Anyway happy fishing.

[robblok]

http://www.fishing-worldrecords.com/bony%20tongues/Arapaima%20gigas.html

I dont want to burst anyone's bubble but that arapaima was never 180 kg. Just look at this pic and the world record.This is MUCH larger and is really weighted and lighter as what you are claiming.

The problem is that fish lake owners love to boast about their stock and anglers too. Estimating is not weighing. Granted.. its almost impossible to weigh an arapaima. But carp and mekong can be weighted with a sling.

[kenny999]

http://www.fishing-w...ma%20gigas.html

I dont want to burst anyone's bubble but that arapaima was never 180 kg. Just look at this pic and the world record.This is MUCH larger and is really weighted and lighter as what you are claiming.

The problem is that fish lake owners love to boast about their stock and anglers too. Estimating is not weighing. Granted.. its almost impossible to weigh an arapaima. But carp and mekong can be weighted with a sling.

Not again Robblok, don't you ever learn that keeping your opinion to yourself about the weight of someones great fish is the best thing to do and will not provoke that person into becoming annoyed, how many times do I have to say this YOU WAS NOT THERE!!! he does not say the fish weighed 180kgs he says the last time it was weighed it did weigh 180kgs not the same thing,

These are all great fish from a venue where you had a bad experience, when ever i Iook at someones post and the fish they have caught the first thing that enters my mind is wow what a great days fishing, I would never dream of posting a comment like "that fish is not the weight you say it is" it is just downright rude. must make this clear I am not angry, I am not annoyed, I just can not work out why you do this.

[kenny999]

rufanuf

You have met met, i don't lie about stuff like this. I would never put someone down if i did not have reasons. As i run no fishing company myself or sell tours i have no stake in putting this lake down.

If i ask for a bucket of lam and i get charged for a bag with the excuse that they had to "order" if for me then i feel cheated. In the end i could sell it back (only used 1 bucket from the bag) for half the price they sold it to me. That is a RIP OFF. Fisheries are able to stock lam its not like they have to special order it and its a non perishable.

I would never have started something negative about it if i did not have that feeling. Also the stunt with the fishes (small to start and later big and drawing straws) made me feel that way. I don't mind paying extra but the feeling of being fleeced just makes me angry. Its one of the few things that makes my blood boiling.

Sure they might have just started it but does that excuse bad behavior ?

The owner (think the guy who posted here) never went into the complaints that shows me how much he respects his customers. I will try to do my best to make stuff like this known so people know what kind of a place it is.

Your experiences might be better because if they rip you off they rip a repeat customer off.

I can accept not catching much as its what happens with angling at times. I cant accept being treated as someone you can rip off.

About weighing... if you use a proper sling there is not much stress for the fish. I have brought 2 slings back from Holland and they do a great job (after being a bit re enforced) at weighing carp and Mekong. All the times the Thai seem to be way off estimating fish, almost everyone including myself thinks fishes are heavier then they really are.

Prices of venue's you might know that better as me, i still think they are much to high and have seen Thai places that do it cheaper. (also airipaima and redtail). Your clearly out there to protect your business and we are the customers who don't want to spend our money that easy. So let say the truth is in the middle.

As for the size of the lake, i find it small. Others might say there are plenty of big fish there (and i believe that). But i like bigger lakes a bit more, its just the feeling.

Because of these experiences i will give this lake a miss when i take my dad and some others to some of the more expensive lakes. I also post at Dutch fishing websites at times and help people find their way in the Thai fishing scene. This lake wont get my support (not that its known there or that i mention it there).

They probably wont loose a nights sleep over it and neither do i, but I'm like a pitbull with the memory of an elephant when i feel wronged.

All these sorts of problems start with misunderstandings. Believe me I am not trying to protect anyone really, i get tired of the misunderstandings too. If I could run my business without having to try and figure out the actions and decisions of venue owners at times I most certainly would (yes they drive me nuts too!), its one of the biggest headaches I have to deal with on behalf of customers, but to solve that problem would involve me spending some 20 million baht or so to get a fishery of my own functioning to western standards with western standards of management.

I read somewhere that the lum was ordered in advance for you by zoso? If that's so how can you expect the fishery owner to then reimburse you for it? I regularly have a half bag or even a full bag of lum left after a session at Bungsamran, I certainly don't expect them to give me a refund for whats left, and I know what their answer would be if I asked. Turning the situation on its head for a moment...IF (and only if) lets say for example Palm Tree DO NOT stock large amounts of lum as a matter of course (perhaps they dont have the customers carp fishing to use it quickly enough before it gets weavel?), you could argue that it was actually a credit to their level of service that they was prepared to go and get 4 bags for you prior to your arrival without payment up front? Just a different way of looking at it Robblok. The issue with a lack of livebaits? Similarly, I know for fact theres misunderstandings there because the best bait for Arapaima is and always has been chicken at Palm Tree LOL. Big livebaits work well for Chao Praya Catfish.

Just to illustrate the point further, I used to have a lot of misunderstandings with lake Monsters(actually still do). It was AND STILL IS NOT clear what is included in their high ticket prices, its also not clear what the rules of the venue actually are because it seems to be a different rule for everyone! To a lesser degree this is true even on Bungsamran.

Because I am aware of this I have learnt how to smooth over those misunderstandings between visiting anglers and the venue. At times it is not easy, and I am left only with a simple observation to pass onto visiting anglers "This is Thailand" or "TIT", to explain Thai logic (or lack of it) but at least they have a frame of reference to take away with them, that does not leave them with a bad taste in their mouth,(I get the bad taste instead and go home to my wife swearing and cursing about the inconsistencies of Thai fishing venue owners, and often those inconsistencies end up costing me money, a days wages) which is what I would have wished for you also, because Palm Tree has some great fish to be caught, if you can get past your dissatisfaction.

The fact of the matter is as you rightly say there are loads of places to fish, prices are all over the place, and in time they will only come down thankfully as Thai venue owners start to understand how to grow their fish quickly to decent sizes inexpensively, its happening everywhere. Just a few years ago a 50kg Arapaima would of cost 30,000BHT or so, now you can get them from 12,000 to 17,000BHT....even so they are so fragile that a 500BHT a day fishery will soon not have any Arapaima in it, becuase the owner would not be able to afford to replace lost fish at those ticket prices (why do you think Bungsamran charge 20,000BHT for one fish?) so take advantage of those low cost tickets, the fish wont be there long. Redtails yes, Arapaima no. Again really its just an indication of the lack of understanding the managers have of their fisheries, and the fish they stock, and why western anglers are prepared to pay to catch them. Mekongs are great as they are as tough as old boots. Carp...yes you can wiegh them, but if you catch a really big old fish (40kg up) and weigh her after a long fight you might be very stressed out yourself to see how much difficulty they sometimes have recovering from that, and be able to swim away from you strongly when released. I know I am. Is it worth the risk for a fish that took maybe 40 years to attain that weight?

I accept in advance I will probably be chastised as a newbie making by fist post but 'cest la vie'

I have been coming to Thailand fishing regularly for over ten years mainly with Francois of Angling Thailand.

I fished Palm Tree Lagoon last month for a few days. I must say Benny and her team went out of their way to try and catch be my target species, and were great fun to be around even if I didn't understand half of what they were saying.

I particularly wanted to catch a 50kg+ chao phraya, 50kg+ siamese carp, 100kg+ arapaima and a juliens golden price carp of any size, all of which have eluded me over the years.

Under Benny's guidance I managed to achieve all of my goals breaking a number of my previous PB's in the process, and catching 6 new species for me.

I have already booked up for another trip later on in the year, and can't wait.

I have to agree with rafanuf on two accounts. Firstly I can not imagine Benny intentionally ripping anyone off so I think it must have been a misunderstanding which in my experience in Thailand over the years is commonplace,

due to both language and cultural differences.

Secondly, I am also now convinced the chicken seems to be the best bait for arapaima. The first couple of days I concentrated on using livebait because I believed it would be the best bait despite 'Benny', 'Hong', 'Bay' and 'Bung'

telling me chicken was the way to go. The livebait did catch me a lot of gar including an 8kg black gar, but not much else.

On the predator species front:

My chao phraya came out as already mentioned in this thread and much to my amazement on a piece of banana.

The chicken accounted for five huge pacu all over 10kg, several featherback to 5 kg, a 22kg alligator gar, and on the last day a huge arapaima which 'Hong' informed me was the second biggest in the lake and that when it was last weighed was 180kg. Four of us struggled to lift it for the photo...

On the carp front I had 9 siamese carp to 55kg and lost a bigger one at the net, many catla carp to 21kg, a 5kg black carp, and at last a juliens golden price carp.

What a great days fishing you had and all amazing fish, don't get annoyed at Robblok as he always disputes the weight of peoples fish, I really do not think he understands that doing this pisses people off.

Edited July 3, 2011 by kenny999

[robblok]

http://www.fishing-w...ma%20gigas.html

I dont want to burst anyone's bubble but that arapaima was never 180 kg. Just look at this pic and the world record.This is MUCH larger and is really weighted and lighter as what you are claiming.

The problem is that fish lake owners love to boast about their stock and anglers too. Estimating is not weighing. Granted.. its almost impossible to weigh an arapaima. But carp and mekong can be weighted with a sling.

Not again Robblok, don't you ever learn that keeping your opinion to yourself about the weight of someones great fish is the best thing to do and will not provoke that person into becoming annoyed, how many times do I have to say this YOU WAS NOT THERE!!! he does not say the fish weighed 180kgs he says the last time it was weighed it did weigh 180kgs not the same thing,

These are all great fish from a venue where you had a bad experience, when ever i Iook at someones post and the fish they have caught the first thing that enters my mind is wow what a great days fishing, I would never dream of posting a comment like "that fish is not the weight you say it is" it is just downright rude. must make this clear I am not angry, I am not annoyed, I just can not work out why you do this.

Kenny,

I do this because of all the ridiculous estimates here in Thailand. Fish are not weighed but estimated and the weights are inflated because it suits the owner of a lake and ego of the fisherman.

I just gave some proof of a fish that was weighted that was much larger then that one.

Don't you agree that both the angler and the fishpond owner benefit by inflating weights.

As long as a fish isn't properly weighted there is no way of knowing what the weight is.

I keep on crusading against false weights. Ever since i started weighing fish for real i have seen how wrong estimates are. Just ask some of my friends that went fishing with me. The Thais and even me all estimate fish much heavier then they really are. But scales don't lie.

Ask yourself this.. how will a fishpond owner make people happier by estimating a real (lower) weight or exaggerate the weight (to keep up with others also exaggerating). They benefit by inflating weights so questioning it is quite healthy especially if its clear the fish cant weigh that much.

I am willing to stake 100.000 baht on it that that fish is not 180 kg or more.

[robblok]

Second thing Kenny, i hope to meet you once and take you to my gym and give you 50kg to hold. Then you will see what i mean. I have no problems with you.

Also it would be nice to fish with you and let you guess the weight of fish before i put them on the scales. Although i think you will estimate low then. But still its real enlightening to see fish properly weighted.

Also Kenny.. have you ever seen a pair of scales that go over 100 kg ? So far i have not. Does not mean they are not available. But the looks i get from my scales that go up to 100 KG says enough.. not many scales around.

Also i realize im not making myself really popular. But i really dont care im after the truth not after winning a popularity contest. People who know me know im an honest person.

Edited July 3, 2011 by robblok

[kenny999]

http://www.fishing-w...ma%20gigas.html

I dont want to burst anyone's bubble but that arapaima was never 180 kg. Just look at this pic and the world record.This is MUCH larger and is really weighted and lighter as what you are claiming.

The problem is that fish lake owners love to boast about their stock and anglers too. Estimating is not weighing. Granted.. its almost impossible to weigh an arapaima. But carp and mekong can be weighted with a sling.

Not again Robblok, don't you ever learn that keeping your opinion to yourself about the weight of someones great fish is the best thing to do and will not provoke that person into becoming annoyed, how many times do I have to say this YOU WAS NOT THERE!!! he does not say the fish weighed 180kgs he says the last time it was weighed it did weigh 180kgs not the same thing,

These are all great fish from a venue where you had a bad experience, when ever i Iook at someones post and the fish they have caught the first thing that enters my mind is wow what a great days fishing, I would never dream of posting a comment like "that fish is not the weight you say it is" it is just downright rude. must make this clear I am not angry, I am not annoyed, I just can not work out why you do this.

Kenny,

I do this because of all the ridiculous estimates here in Thailand. Fish are not weighed but estimated and the weights are inflated because it suits the owner of a lake and ego of the fisherman.

I just gave some proof of a fish that was weighted that was much larger then that one.

Don't you agree that both the angler and the fishpond owner benefit by inflating weights.

As long as a fish isn't properly weighted there is no way of knowing what the weight is.

I keep on crusading against false weights. Ever since i started weighing fish for real i have seen how wrong estimates are. Just ask some of my friends that went fishing with me. The Thais and even me all estimate fish much heavier then they really are. But scales don't lie.

Ask yourself this.. how will a fishpond owner make people happier by estimating a real (lower) weight or exaggerate the weight (to keep up with others also exaggerating). They benefit by inflating weights so questioning it is quite healthy especially if its clear the fish cant weigh that much.

I am willing to stake 100.000 baht on it that that fish is not 180 kg or more.

Yes I understand everything you have said and actually agree, but you must try and word your posts better as it always seems you are getting at the individual, but I guess that is down to the individual if he takes it the wrong way, anyway not the end of the world!!

[robblok]

http://www.fishing-w...ma%20gigas.html

I dont want to burst anyone's bubble but that arapaima was never 180 kg. Just look at this pic and the world record.This is MUCH larger and is really weighted and lighter as what you are claiming.

The problem is that fish lake owners love to boast about their stock and anglers too. Estimating is not weighing. Granted.. its almost impossible to weigh an arapaima. But carp and mekong can be weighted with a sling.

Kenny im Dutch... we are not known for our tact we say it as we see it. Especially me.

Also i will agree that arapaima are real hard to weigh and personally i would not weigh them as it would cause too much stress. But carp and other fish can be weighted good with a sling. But those weights that are given are not realistic. And every lake is doing it because else their fish will look small compared to a lake that does not estimate fair.

Not again Robblok, don't you ever learn that keeping your opinion to yourself about the weight of someones great fish is the best thing to do and will not provoke that person into becoming annoyed, how many times do I have to say this YOU WAS NOT THERE!!! he does not say the fish weighed 180kgs he says the last time it was weighed it did weigh 180kgs not the same thing,

These are all great fish from a venue where you had a bad experience, when ever i Iook at someones post and the fish they have caught the first thing that enters my mind is wow what a great days fishing, I would never dream of posting a comment like "that fish is not the weight you say it is" it is just downright rude. must make this clear I am not angry, I am not annoyed, I just can not work out why you do this.

Kenny,

I do this because of all the ridiculous estimates here in Thailand. Fish are not weighed but estimated and the weights are inflated because it suits the owner of a lake and ego of the fisherman.

I just gave some proof of a fish that was weighted that was much larger then that one.

Don't you agree that both the angler and the fishpond owner benefit by inflating weights.

As long as a fish isn't properly weighted there is no way of knowing what the weight is.

I keep on crusading against false weights. Ever since i started weighing fish for real i have seen how wrong estimates are. Just ask some of my friends that went fishing with me. The Thais and even me all estimate fish much heavier then they really are. But scales don't lie.

Ask yourself this.. how will a fishpond owner make people happier by estimating a real (lower) weight or exaggerate the weight (to keep up with others also exaggerating). They benefit by inflating weights so questioning it is quite healthy especially if its clear the fish cant weigh that much.

I am willing to stake 100.000 baht on it that that fish is not 180 kg or more.

Yes I understand everything you have said and actually agree, but you must try and word your posts better as it always seems you are getting at the individual, but I guess that is down to the individual if he takes it the wrong way, anyway not the end of the world!!

[kenny999]

Second thing Kenny, i hope to meet you once and take you to my gym and give you 50kg to hold. Then you will see what i mean. I have no problems with you.

Also it would be nice to fish with you and let you guess the weight of fish before i put them on the scales. Although i think you will estimate low then. But still its real enlightening to see fish properly weighted.

Also Kenny.. have you ever seen a pair of scales that go over 100 kg ? So far i have not. Does not mean they are not available. But the looks i get from my scales that go up to 100 KG says enough.. not many scales around.

Also i realize im not making myself really popular. But i really dont care im after the truth not after winning a popularity contest. People who know me know im an honest person.

I would love to fish with you some time Robblok, all I am saying is try not to make it sound as if you are getting at the individual, sounds like fun estimating the weight of fish you catch, I like you have no problem with you or any one but I have my dislikes about things!!

[robblok]

I would love to fish with you some time Robblok, all I am saying is try not to make it sound as if you are getting at the individual, sounds like fun estimating the weight of fish you catch, I like you have no problem with you or any one but I have my dislikes about things!!

You would be catching too

Anyway i do estimate weight of the fish with my friends before weighing. The standard BSR size is easy to guess but once they get bigger it gets harder.

I never make it personal but its just the whole fishing scene here seems to inflate weights because of lack of scales. I see it more as a general problem and am not attacking anyone. The fish on the pics are all great fish. Them being a different weight does not make the fish any less nice.

[2arcangelm]

hi, anyone who wants to fish palmtree lagoon.

rods specs & reels at the end as well as catch rate(fish)

awesome place, benny & her employee "boy" picked me up in a mk8 mitsubishi evolution every morning & dropped me off every night, they even sorted me out with a girly for the night. mind you that was a lot of hassle, take one with you, the hotel dont charge you extra for a guest.

back to the fishing, i fished 3 days for £90 each day, otherwise its £110 a day, upto 2 days.

yeh it might be loads but it was worth it, as on the 2nd day they put out a extra carp/meekong rod out, no charge. to catch a meekong or a siamese carp for me. there rare in here not like bungsamran, where its a carp soup lake for meekong. but there bigger by far, also the chance of a chao praya catfish, these fight better than meekong, the best real freshwater fish fight that goes on for ages.

on the 3rd/ last day they put out an extra predator rod out half way through the day, still no charge.

but the end of the day was coming with the bill, dread!

unlike koh samui, top cats where the bill escalated by loads for bait etc. at the end!

they charged me no extra. full stop. with extra bait for up to 5 rods, also they got me some small worms, not earthworms, but bigger than dendrobeanas.

benny & the people who help here are a credit to the real people of thailand who are there to help you as a friend or a tourist, not to rip you off as a farang who has loads of money. compared to them.

the first day i had 15 fish, i let them fish their way for 3 hours, but im a impatient angler, im used to match/pole fishing.

always making changes to catch fish. not sitting behind buzzers. sorry carpers.

use a 1/2 dead bait in the borders for amazon redtails, thai redtails, lift in out of water, make plenty of noise while splashing the fish. this brings on the catfish, you will see the catfish in the border, 4-8 " from the edge.

i used the predator rod all day, not listening really, but benny knows her stuff. alot more than i do.

heres the test. on the 2nd day i caught a pacu, i had lost 3 cos they bite thru the 100lb shock leader mono.

she said its 10kg, i said no its more than that, she said what you say then?

i dont know 12kg! 15kg at a big stretch, odd shape for a fish i thought. i done catch pacu regularlly, otherwise id know!

so she got her scales out weigh sling out wet the sling. 13kg, minus the sling 1.5kg total 11.5kg.

so she underestimated, not exageratted the point. she was spot on every time with her guesses. bot it was more than the 10kg she quoted, so my guess was better, yeh i know ego .

i lost 3 airapaima each in excess of 200kg, they took 1/2 a carcass of chicken, there smart fish, its like a roach sucking a maggot, but with chicken, they just nip the end of the carcass then off they go for 50m maybe before they take abit more, if they feel the hook there eject the bait. even if you do hook them they jump out of the water 2-4ft & dive to the bottom, there air breathers remember, the longer the fight the more chance they will die!

i lost all 3, so i had to fish in amazon fishing park in pattaya, £70 for 1 rod, £120 for 2 rods, i wasnt paying that for 2 rods for 12 hours. i caught 1 each day i fished, & lost one, cos they tied the hooks wrong. whip the hooks on your self! they wont mind, tip them £2, thats what they asked for, but i gave the lad £10 at amazon.

at palm tree i gave them £60 for the 3 days as a tip.

my hit list was massive for the fish i wanted. i never caught them all, so im going back again, & everytime.

next time im fishing 4 lakes, bungsamran, shadow lake, (bangkok) palm tree lagoon,(ratchaburi) & amazon fishing park, pattaya.

im done with stroking crocs, tigers, swiming with dolhins, zip wiring thru the jungle tree tops at 50m above the floor. the girls are still for the night time, but thats another story.

if you are new to thailand, get a taxi from the airport, £25, on the return get a taxi to the airport, then a greyhound type bus to pattaya £2.50, its the same time, as congestion in bangkok is extreme. its still 1.5-2 hours eitherway.

if theres more than 1 of you, then share a taxi, on the way back to jomtien from palmtree lagoon it was 3000 bht approx £62, he drove like a looney, they all do.

heres what i caught in 3 days:

17 redtail catfish 7-25kg

5 siamese carp 7-19kg

1 tiger catfish 6-10lb

2 meekong 30-50kg

1 stingray 35kg

6 rohu carp 6-8lb

1 shovelnose leopard

1 featherback 3lb

1 lau lau 2.5lb

2 peacock bass 3-8lb

1 catla catla carp 12lb

1 alligator gar 13kg

at amazon fishing park in pattaya area, a little more south than jomtien really.

49 fish in 2 days

alot of smaller fish by far, all of them actually. & here they exagerate, for when i caught the biggest redtail here they said it was 35kg, no way, it was 18kg tops.

a 13kg & a 40kg airapaima i actually caught these in the margins thinking they were redtails & i cast to them when i heard them splashing around, feed cut up pieces of deadbait, or a pint of blood.

loads of dead bait being chucked out will bring on pacu, as they shoal up.

shimano 10,000 will burn out on really big meekong, in excess of 60kg.

shimano big baitrunner will do the job, buy then in england.

buy the rods in bungsamran, £20 approx for a 5ft rod, equal to a 6-8lb test curve, you'll need that strength, just in case.

all terminal tackle in bungsamran.

take your own stuff if possible, works out cheaper in the long run.

shadowlake you can fish 2 rods for £9 for 12 hours.

£60 for 1 rod at bungsamran 12 hours, or your own 2 rods with bait, & bungalow for 24hours £70

palm tree i dont know yet, but will do.

another fisherman a dutch lad, used his own kit, alot less, but he was fishing 18 days on a spin in a 3 month stay.

laters guys, tight lines, i hopw that some info can help.