Not The Bike- The Rider!

[snowflake]

So i was out on my bike today, boy you work hard to keep the speed up- compared to a liter bike... I had forgotten how much you use the gears after living with a zx12r... But ... Today i was caught up by some thais on larger sports bikes... Darn they fly fast straight forward but the slightest curve makes them stop! I managed to keep up with a ducati 848- a bmw 1000 and a nice er6 n... I managed to lose them in the curves- just for them to catch up with me on the straight... The cbr is a cracking little bike- but you work hard to keep it above 140- but very fun... but back to my question, what kind of training do most people have before they get on big bikes? Apparently i was taught well by my instructor back in norway... Ps- the cbr might be slow, but it is sure fast enough to kill myself!

[JUDAS]

I've never had any formal training, more a case of trial and painful error. Is a nice feeling though keeping a smaller bike up with the bigger guys through skill in the bends, done it myself many times.

Recently though, on the country around Chumphon I was pushed real hard by a young kid , maybe 14years old on a tuned up Mio with skinny tires, jeez that kid could ride, totally fearless and totally unprotected, no helmet etc

[CMX]

I prove the same point.

It does not matter, on the curves, whether I'm riding a 250 or a 650, almost all riders on a 110 or better, even automatics, whiz right past.

Merry,

[LivinLOS]

Also depending on the level of curves a smaller lighter bike easier to chuck about.. Less mass to get to change direction etc. Doesnt really apply to winding roads but sure does for mountain switchbacks.

I am a slow rider for heavy cornering.. I tend to worry about changing road surfaces, gravel, sand, etc etc too much to push it edge to edge.. I like to keep a lot in reserve for emergency.

[Tatsujin]

Back in the UK, I always found my VFR400 or CBR600 would always easily keep up with much bigger bikes especially on twisty roads. Yes, they have more power, more acceleration etc so would leave me a little on straights, but all in all I never had any problems keeping up with people regardless of their bike. I'm not the greatest rider in the world, but as someone else posted, I think the bigger bikes are perhaps not quite as 'chuckable' and a lot of riders are of the point-and-shoot variety and slow down a lot on cornering cos of lack of confidence.

[snowflake]

No, these curves are not that bad, they are slow (on the zx12r) with a fairly nice tarmac...

The fact is that they have no training whatsoever, just enough money to buy a liter bike... The ride it like a honda wave, but there is a large difference in how to corner with a liter bike compared to a nouvo or wave...

Training makes you faster (AND SAFER)...

[billd766]

many years ago when I lived in the UK and before the laws changed a young guy had just passed his motorcycle test on a 125cc something.

At the weekend he bought a monster 1,000 cc plus bike and never made more that 3km before he crashed it and died.

No training, no experience on something big and no brains.

Did have a helmet though it didn't do that much good when he came off at speed.

It happens sometimes down in Pattaya and Phuket way when young men come out and rent the biggest bike and roar off after a few beers.

A sad waste of life.

[snowflake]

I know that amongst most foreigners here in town, it is unusual to find a person with a propper license for a big bike... Like many other people, i tend to leave the brain at home when i go on bike rides- but still deep down, when i am not happy with the road/anything- my training will kick inn... I hate the fact that any person can rent a big bike in phuket- its just asking for problems...

[newtronbom]

When I am in the right mood, no Thai or foreigner for that matter, could keep up with me on the Yam TZR 150 I just sold, if riding in or near Bangkok traffic. Big straight roads outside the city are a different matter. But though the TZR had mag rims and good sticky tires along with good brakes, it was very fast, but certainly not as safe as would be a VFR 400, or other bigger bikes with wide slicks and twin disc brakes. Rubber to the road and even better brakes, along with ability, are what count in the the long run. I used to road race 500s back home, but that TZR was a hell of a buzz. With my "full face" on, the Thais didn't know I was a falang until I lifted the visor. Most of them were OK with that too, especially when I spoke good Thai to them. Has anyone else noticed that many Thai riders, noticeably on 250s up to 400s, some of whom are very good riders, just love an excuse, any excuse for a race? That newish "Ratchapruc" road that crosses from Rama 5 over to Sarthorn road and hits Rama 4, is in quite good condition and is a huge buzz at high speed. In my humble opinion, a good quality 400cc is just right - size and weight wise - and virtually unbeatable in and around Bangkok, if well ridden....Don't have pics of my bike, but the 2 shown below are good examples and mine was the same color scheme, plus it had mag rims. Can buy one in good condition for 5000 to 7000 baht. thebom

[billd766]

I know that amongst most foreigners here in town, it is unusual to find a person with a propper license for a big bike... Like many other people, i tend to leave the brain at home when i go on bike rides- but still deep down, when i am not happy with the road/anything- my training will kick inn... I hate the fact that any person can rent a big bike in phuket- its just asking for problems...

Oddly enough I actually do have a license for all sizes of bikes though I ride a Phantom which is physically big enough for me.

I have ridden a 400 cc Steed but apart from my Honda CX 500 bikes of a longish time ago I haven't really ridden anything big or fast for many years and truthfully speed don't impress me much any more.

I wouldn't like to put my life in the hands of a rental guy down there on a big bike that I know nothing about its condition, servicings, brakes tyres etc.

I like to get on my bike and go where I want/need to go and get there safely.

At 66 with a young son I have no need to be a rocketship rider.

There are bold motorcyclists and bold motorcyclists but very few old and bold ones.

There are also bald ones and I come into that category.

Ride safely and carefully and you can do it again tomorrow and for the rest of your life.

Edited December 25, 2010 by billd766

[ChangNoi1]

many years ago when I lived in the UK and before the laws changed a young guy had just passed his motorcycle test on a 125cc something.

At the weekend he bought a monster 1,000 cc plus bike and never made more that 3km before he crashed it and died.

No training, no experience on something big and no brains.

Did have a helmet though it didn't do that much good when he came off at speed.

It happens sometimes down in Pattaya and Phuket way when young men come out and rent the biggest bike and roar off after a few beers.

A sad waste of life.

Yes the rental guys & girls here in Patters do not care if you have ever driven any kind of 2-wheeler when renting you a Kawasaki ER6N or whatever. This in combination that a lot of young guys here think Patters is a kind of Disney Land for adults makes that you see quite a few very sad accidents here on the street. Driving fast is easy ... stopping fast with 150km/h is not easy. And due to the temprature nobody wears protections cloths. Then not to mention the light-weighted Thai girls that fall of the bike at high acceleration (this is no joke!)

Where I used to live when I became 18 I could just go to the local police and get a "learning" plate that would give a 3-months learning excersise in my own place of living. And you could buy any bike you liked! This also had very sad results. Like a young guy living in my street who bought big 1100cc race monster and crashed it within a half day with supreme high speed into a mini-van. He died, 1 person in the car died and the passenger on the motorbike was air-born and serverly hurt (invalide for the rest of his life).

I bought myself a Honda CB400fs and took lessons .... although not by law requiered we did learn emergency handelings like emergency stops at high speed and handeling of the bike at high speed. And small things like where to drive on the road in compare to the other trafic. These lessons did probably saved my life more as once. Even also with driving a car.

Chang Noi

[newtronbom]

I know that amongst most foreigners here in town, it is unusual to find a person with a propper license for a big bike... Like many other people, i tend to leave the brain at home when i go on bike rides- but still deep down, when i am not happy with the road/anything- my training will kick inn... I hate the fact that any person can rent a big bike in phuket- its just asking for problems...

Oddly enough I actually do have a license for all sizes of bikes though I ride a Phantom which is physically big enough for me.

I have ridden a 400 cc Steed but apart from my Honda CX 500 bikes of a longish time ago I haven't really ridden anything big or fast for many years and truthfully speed don't impress me much any more.

I wouldn't like to put my life in the hands of a rental guy down there on a big bike that I know nothing about its condition, servicings, brakes tyres etc.

I like to get on my bike and go where I want/need to go and get there safely.

At 66 with a young son I have no need to be a rocketship rider.

There are bold motorcyclists and bold motorcyclists but very few old and bold ones.

There are also bald ones and I come into that category.

Ride safely and carefully and you can do it again tomorrow and for the rest of your life.

Funny thing that. I too, seem to fit into "your bald category", but in my case I'm sure, it was the "wind speed" pulling out my hair and NOT curse the thought, old age, that has caused the shiny spot.....

[jahsoldier]

In sweden where i come from its quite a project to get the licence.

[crisp]

I know that amongst most foreigners here in town, it is unusual to find a person with a propper license for a big bike... Like many other people, i tend to leave the brain at home when i go on bike rides- but still deep down, when i am not happy with the road/anything- my training will kick inn... I hate the fact that any person can rent a big bike in phuket- its just asking for problems...

Oddly enough I actually do have a license for all sizes of bikes though I ride a Phantom which is physically big enough for me.

I have ridden a 400 cc Steed but apart from my Honda CX 500 bikes of a longish time ago I haven't really ridden anything big or fast for many years and truthfully speed don't impress me much any more.

I wouldn't like to put my life in the hands of a rental guy down there on a big bike that I know nothing about its condition, servicings, brakes tyres etc.

I like to get on my bike and go where I want/need to go and get there safely.

At 66 with a young son I have no need to be a rocketship rider.

There are bold motorcyclists and bold motorcyclists but very few old and bold ones.

I'm 52 (not bold yet!) & longed for a litre bike, fortunately i could afford one in Thailand & service it myself, but due to working away only get to ride it on my hols.

I've found", on more than one occasion i've used the power to get me away/out of trouble, so my point is "sometimes" power has its advantages!!

I agree 100% that its crazy that tourist farrang can rent big bikes without the appropriate licence, unfortunately its not just themselves that get hurt but innocent pedestrians & not to mention their families back home.

ride safe, keep the shiney side up.

Chris

There are also bald ones and I come into that category.

Ride safely and carefully and you can do it again tomorrow and for the rest of your life.

[Garry]

In sweden where i come from its quite a project to get the licence.

I've had friends tell me that it is just as difficult to obtain a license in Germany.

[Garry]

I know that amongst most foreigners here in town, it is unusual to find a person with a propper license for a big bike... Like many other people, i tend to leave the brain at home when i go on bike rides- but still deep down, when i am not happy with the road/anything- my training will kick inn... I hate the fact that any person can rent a big bike in phuket- its just asking for problems...

Oddly enough I actually do have a license for all sizes of bikes though I ride a Phantom which is physically big enough for me.

I have ridden a 400 cc Steed but apart from my Honda CX 500 bikes of a longish time ago I haven't really ridden anything big or fast for many years and truthfully speed don't impress me much any more.

I wouldn't like to put my life in the hands of a rental guy down there on a big bike that I know nothing about its condition, servicings, brakes tyres etc.

I like to get on my bike and go where I want/need to go and get there safely.

At 66 with a young son I have no need to be a rocketship rider.

There are bold motorcyclists and bold motorcyclists but very few old and bold ones.

There are also bald ones and I come into that category.

Ride safely and carefully and you can do it again tomorrow and for the rest of your life.

CX500, that brings back memories. I was in lust with the CX500 Turbo when it came out in '82 and only for that year. Honda crammed a lot into that one bike. V-Twin, fuel Injection, turbo & shaft drive all in one. Fortunately I could afford it or the just released RC30 and I wanted that bike bad.

So far I've survived though. I never go past my comfort zone and a bit of luck. Hopefully I'll have many more riding years in Thailand. :jap:

[LivinLOS]

I think the bigger bikes are perhaps not quite as 'chuckable' and a lot of riders are of the point-and-shoot variety and slow down a lot on cornering cos of lack of confidence.

In the last years I moved from a 400 to a 900.. Now I dont consider myself an especially rider even tho I have been doing it since I was a kid but I could push the much slower 400 much closer to the limit with more confidence. It was relatively easy to go in hard on the brakes with the rear tyre going very light and adjust my angles and get on the power to balance the bike at closer to the edge of traction. The 900 operates at such higher levels of pretty much everything, plus the additional weight / mass issue, I dont dare ride the nuts off it in the same way. A small error in my judgement would have both larger repercussions and thinner margins between good and bad outcomes. The old adage of riding a small bike to the limits of the bike and riding big bike to the limits of the rider / road. Staying inside my rider ability safety margins requires a lot more care.

[BigBikeBKK]

I think the bigger bikes are perhaps not quite as 'chuckable' and a lot of riders are of the point-and-shoot variety and slow down a lot on cornering cos of lack of confidence.

In the last years I moved from a 400 to a 900.. Now I dont consider myself an especially rider even tho I have been doing it since I was a kid but I could push the much slower 400 much closer to the limit with more confidence. It was relatively easy to go in hard on the brakes with the rear tyre going very light and adjust my angles and get on the power to balance the bike at closer to the edge of traction. The 900 operates at such higher levels of pretty much everything, plus the additional weight / mass issue, I dont dare ride the nuts off it in the same way. A small error in my judgement would have both larger repercussions and thinner margins between good and bad outcomes. The old adage of riding a small bike to the limits of the bike and riding big bike to the limits of the rider / road. Staying inside my rider ability safety margins requires a lot more care.

Aye, I like the version that goes something like this:

It's more fun to ride a slow bike fast, than a fast bike slow!

And was reminded yesterday at BIRA Circuit that indeed the limiting factor is usually the rider and not the bike when Blue Rider Mickey kept passing me on his Kawasaki Ninja 250R-

dam_n he's quick and fearless!!! Video:

Edited December 27, 2010 by BigBikeBKK

[saorsa]

Ive been riding for 23 yrs on all kinds of bikes from sports to choppers, but I wouldnt consider myself anywhere near good enough to even take a rcent sports 600 to the limits. I like riding my Harley and stay between 100-160kmh most of the time and that is quite fast enough for me. I do love the torque and acceleration from my big bore kit though, the standard harley acceleration is just too slow even with stage 1.

[Kalyan]

Been on the roads for the better part of the decade now and I've exclusively stuck to small cc bikes. Never bothered to look at anything above 200cc because I just need a horse for the 25km commute to and from work each day.

When I got involved with a bike community a number of CB400 riders were complaining they couldn't keep up with my Phantom uphill and through the corners. I went <deleted> because well, they have much better traction and twice the horsepower.

What I learned later is that VTEC inline fours are quite low on torque at lower revs; But more importantly... the riders didn't know how to make use of the VTEC. So they get beaten by a scrapyard-spec single cylinder that uses half the petrol to get anywhere.

Now I don't have any horsepower to play on the Malaysian highways but local roads <90kph erm, what I get people to do is sit though the Keith Code DVD and get them to ride like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZLXk_hZ1M8

Under my supervision, of course

[BigBikeBKK]

Been on the roads for the better part of the decade now and I've exclusively stuck to small cc bikes. Never bothered to look at anything above 200cc because I just need a horse for the 25km commute to and from work each day.

When I got involved with a bike community a number of CB400 riders were complaining they couldn't keep up with my Phantom uphill and through the corners. I went &lt;deleted&gt; because well, they have much better traction and twice the horsepower.

What I learned later is that VTEC inline fours are quite low on torque at lower revs; But more importantly... the riders didn't know how to make use of the VTEC. So they get beaten by a scrapyard-spec single cylinder that uses half the petrol to get anywhere.

Now I don't have any horsepower to play on the Malaysian highways but local roads <90kph erm, what I get people to do is sit though the Keith Code DVD and get them to ride like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZLXk_hZ1M8

Under my supervision, of course

Um, while that's a nice clip of some guys puttering about a city (Singapore?) at night I'm not sure what it has to do with Keith Code's Twist of the Wrist II video or the topic of the thread. Here's some Keith Code style riding-

And here's a "making of" vid that's worth a look:

I learned a lot from that video and still watch it from time to time. Highly recommended for anyone who wants to upgrade their skills and improve their riding.

Ride On!

Tony

[eezergood]

Great info guys and great links! Just back from Pattaya and as someone mentioned a guy with more bravado then brains decides to rent an R1 ! as i sit watching this guy rev the balls of the engine, he then climbs aboard fully kitted out in sandals, singlet BUT a helmet! stalls the thing 3 times then shoots off down the road only to clip a taxi! The rest you can work out for yourselves, but at least no one was really injured with the exception of our friends ego and wallet!

[ChangNoi1]

Great info guys and great links! Just back from Pattaya and as someone mentioned a guy with more bravado then brains decides to rent an R1 ! as i sit watching this guy rev the balls of the engine, he then climbs aboard fully kitted out in sandals, singlet BUT a helmet! stalls the thing 3 times then shoots off down the road only to clip a taxi! The rest you can work out for yourselves, but at least no one was really injured with the exception of our friends ego and wallet!

Makes me think of when I went to the CBR250r test-riding at BigC Pattaya. A guy is in line to make his test drive. Walking on flip-flops, singlet and a kind of boxer-short. Then he puts on the protecting knee-caps and ellobow-caps and wears a plastic shitty helmet. You should have seen him driving on his flip-flops. Saftey first!

Chang Noi

[eezergood]

These are the guys that make my insurance premiums soo high! and feel like they can act or ride as they like just because this is Thailand.

[RED21]

These are the guys that make my insurance premiums soo high! and feel like they can act or ride as they like just because this is Thailand.

Don't worry about it... Let natural selection take its course,,,

Just started reading "Proficient Motorcycling: The Ultimate Guide to Motorcycling" by David L. Hough, so far its been scary but very informative.

Edited December 29, 2010 by RED21

[Kalyan]

Just started reading "Proficient Motorcycling: The Ultimate Guide to Motorcycling" by David L. Hough, so far its been scary but very informative.

Added to my reading list! Thanks for the recommendation

On flipflops, shorts etc. Someone boasted the other day here of going 250+kph on a Hayabusa... in flipflops. And these people dare to call my <80kph commuting videos "dangerous".

[BSJ]

Just started reading "Proficient Motorcycling: The Ultimate Guide to Motorcycling" by David L. Hough, so far its been scary but very informative.

Added to my reading list! Thanks for the recommendation

On flipflops, shorts etc. Someone boasted the other day here of going 250+kph on a Hayabusa... in flipflops. And these people dare to call my <80kph commuting videos "dangerous".

At 80kph the dust doesn't come off your flip flops. I am guessing it does at 250! So it saves washing your feet 10 times a day.