Foreigners Push For Ban On Elephants In Bangkok

[webfact]

Foreigners push for ban on elephants in Bangkok

By The Nation

A group of foreign conservationists yesterday pushed for the government to stop mahouts from making their elephants beg in city streets, especially after several cases have been reported of tourists being attacked for refusing to buy fruit to feed the animals.

Acting on behalf of Elephant AID International, 30 foreigners submitted a list of 30,000 signatures to the prime minister via the governor of Chiang Mai. The group's coordinator Carol Buckley said the practice of forcing the country's symbolic national animal to beg on the streets was "awful" and not adopted anywhere else in the world.

Saengduen Chaiyalert, chief of the Elephants and Environmental Conservation Foundation, said many incidents of mahouts attacking tourists went unreported, including the one in which a foreign woman was attacked by a gang of mahouts. However, the latest attack on December 18, which was reported by the foreign media "had severely tarnished Thailand's public image" and prompted a campaign against the practice.

-- The Nation 2010-12-25

[Thailand]

I thought they were already banned?

[Piengrudee]

Elephants need to eat too. So what is wrong if people, or animal work for food. I suppose you do that too.

[jonclark]

Elephants need to eat too. So what is wrong if people, or animal work for food. I suppose you do that too.

Elephants in towns are not working for food, they are being exploited for the benefit of the handler (mainly). Therein lies the difference.

To use a dog analogy, if you can't afford to feed or pay vets bill for your dog. You shouldn't get one to start with. Guess the same principle applies to an elephant.

[asiawatcher]

Elephants need to eat too. So what is wrong if people, or animal work for food. I suppose you do that too.

Feeding an elephant three sticks of sugar cane when they need to eat 60-100kgs a day is criminal. The elephants are undernourished and impoverished. The mahouts need to make a living but there is a right and wrong situation and a Govt that despite a law, does not have a police force to protect the interests of the pakky. Oh well, live and let live. T.i.T.

[smiling mantis]

To use a dog analogy...

Since we're talking about banning animals and somebody brought up dogs...

We need to start pointing fingers at some of the breeds of dogs Thais are raising here. I'm in Udon Thani and I'm walking around night market and I see maybe a half-dozen SIBERIAN HUSKIES penned up in cages, clearly miserable.

Yes, they're very cute dogs, even when they grow up, but c'mon, you can't have these dogs here in Thailand. I was dying from the heat (yeah, I know, it's only December), and I'm basically hairless. Siberian Huskies have a kind of coat that features not only the fur you see, but inner fur too. It's like two fur coats is what they're wearing.

There are lots of cute short-haired dogs. It's either that, or the Thais need to start building air-conditioned doghouses.

[AZBill]

I thought they were already banned?

Edited December 25, 2010 by AZBill

[ginjag]

Elephants need to eat too. So what is wrong if people, or animal work for food. I suppose you do that too.

So you think that its natural for elephants to eat bananas, and sugar cane, walking around the streets of BKK. Mostly its children who smile when they see them, tourists and level headed people expect these wonderful animals to be in more comfortable surroundings. Suppose Jumbo,s bank account will be very big when he retires back to the forest. Are you an animal lover Piengrudee ????

[Ricardo]

Elephants need to eat too. So what is wrong if people, or animal work for food. I suppose you do that too.

I myself am retired, so don't "work for food" or "do that too", no you suppose wrong.

But then, I'm not one of the very-few remaining wonderful creatures, who symbolise this fascinating country (weren't they even on the national-flag at one time ?), and have virtually disappeared over the past century, with numbers declining from a hundred-thousand to merely a few thousand today.

That Thailand allows some of these to lead such an un-natural life, merely to enrich their 'owners', or the mahouts they rent them to by-the-month, so they can come to beg on the streets of Bangkok, is indeed shameful. I can well understand the reaction of these tourists, or civilised people from wherever, perhaps they imagine that Thai people & government can find a better more-sustainable 'retirement' or future for these elephants. Are they wrong to hope for such an outcome ? :jap:

[jsflynn603]

Elephants within cities that are constantly contacting humans, because of their respiratory system design eventually contract tuberculosis, almost always the mahout becomes infected. Others including those whose hands feed fruit to the elephants are at risk of contacting tuberculosis.

To work this way in the city is a death sentence for an elephant, plain and simple. It can be close to a death sentence to the person who feeds fruit to the elephant and who does not disinfect or wash hands after. This is why there is already a huge fine for anyone feeding an elephant in Bkk.

Thailand has about 14,000 deaths each year due to tuberculosis.

As a side note, a large percentage of America's circus elephants also have been infected by TB--the problem is not confined to Thailand.

To read more see: http://www.gan.ca/ca...ephants.en.html

This is a photo of Lota, an American Circus elephant with TB. It is called "Consumption" because any animal "wastes away." No trick photography, she is so thin that half her normal bulk is gone. She was treated at a cost of about US$50,000.

Edited December 25, 2010 by jsflynn603

[JWJ]

Didn't I read the police were going to start fining tourists 10,000 if caught feeding the elephant.

That guarantees these elephants continue to be exploited.

Pretty soon, the cops will be running their own elephant mafia.

[ginjag]

Didn't I read the police were going to start fining tourists 10,000 if caught feeding the elephant.

That guarantees these elephants continue to be exploited.

Pretty soon, the cops will be running their own elephant mafia.

Attention all you police--don,t allow the elephants on the streets, then you wont have to grab money from tourists who dont know the law. But 10,000 baht from 1 tourist is better than your m/c checks.

[jayjay0]

I do not agree with Elephants in the street.

That being said they are there. What is to be done about it. The elephants in the street need to eat.

What the so called protectors of the elephants need to ask themselves and any one who agrees with them is will I take one in and feed it.?

I live in Chiang Mai where the attack took place. What was not mentioned in the article was that it happened on LoI Kroh in a bar and the Aussie had made a verbal assault on the mahout.

Based on this the animal lovers were out in force.

Ironically not a one of them cared one bit about the ones on the street now. When asked who would feed them they were silent.

I am not a animal lover but they do have rights what is needed is a plan to not only keep them of the streets but to take care of the ones on the street now.

I wonder at these so called animal lovers lack of concern for the dogs on the street. Talk is cheap and they have lots of it.

[apollo13]

Elephants need to eat too. So what is wrong if people, or animal work for food. I suppose you do that too.

yeah, same like when the Japanese forced the Thais to work on the death railway, nothing wrong there. Funny, the stuff you read when people from underdeveloped countries manage to post on forums.

[geovalin]

I'm foreigner and I never pushed for ban on elephants in Bangkok. These animals do not bother me, I like the "good ol' time" feeling and I don't mind about their diet (do these wise foreigners mind about the diet of the Thai people?) and FIRST OF ALL Bangkok is a Thai city: this is the responsibility of the Thai people not western environmentally correct persons.

[moetownblues]

Elephants need to eat too. So what is wrong if people, or animal work for food. I suppose you do that too.

The problem with this situation is that if a farang tourist buys food from the handler and feeds the elephant they can be fined 10,000 baht by the BIB. Then on the other hand if they refuse to buy from and feed the elephant then they may be assaulted by the handler and his mates as part of a scam. Farang tourists are damned if they do and damned if they don't. The best thing is if you see an elephant and the handler on the city streets stay well clear and you keep your holiday funds and your physical health intact.

[SomTumTiger]

I am sad to see these creatures working like this - but don't know what I can do to help the situation

[apollo13]

I'm foreigner and I never pushed for ban on elephants in Bangkok. These animals do not bother me, I like the "good ol' time" feeling and I don't mind about their diet (do these wise foreigners mind about the diet of the Thai people?) and FIRST OF ALL Bangkok is a Thai city: this is the responsibility of the Thai people not western environmentally correct persons.

So, mahoots, drunk and drugged up, intimidating and attacking people who decline to give cash is your idea of 'the good ol time feeling', even though having these tards begging on the streets with their animals is not traditional in Thailand and has nothing to do with 'the good ol' times' . Animal welfare and environmental issues are everybody's concern.

[jayjay0]

I'm foreigner and I never pushed for ban on elephants in Bangkok. These animals do not bother me, I like the "good ol' time" feeling and I don't mind about their diet (do these wise foreigners mind about the diet of the Thai people?) and FIRST OF ALL Bangkok is a Thai city: this is the responsibility of the Thai people not western environmentally correct persons.

So, mahoots, drunk and drugged up, intimidating and attacking people who decline to give cash is your idea of 'the good ol time feeling', even though having these tards begging on the streets with their animals is not traditional in Thailand and has nothing to do with 'the good ol' times' . Animal welfare and environmental issues are everybody's concern.

Can you give all the details of these atrocities you credit to Mahoots. I did on the one in Chiang Mai. You will notice it was instagated by a Aussie with out any sense telling a Mahout what to do after drinking in a bar.

As I said in my earlier post what is needed is a plan that includes the welfare of the elephants currently on the street.

I also said that talk is cheap. Thank you for proving me right.

For myself I have a answer but it would involve action. I myself am not a animal lover. Or for that matter a snake lover or insect lover or lover of people who are just mouth pieces. And as the willingness to tell others what to do and do nothing themselves shows on this thread there are a few here.

[mca]

I do not agree with Elephants in the street.

Why? Are they red shirt supporters?

[chuang]

Then on the other hand if they refuse to buy from and feed the elephant then they may be assaulted by the handler and his mates as part of a scam. Farang tourists are damned if they do and damned if they don't. .

How true is this ???...being assaulted for not buying feed for the elephants...

[Bagwan]

Elephants need to eat too. So what is wrong if people, or animal work for food. I suppose you do that too.

Maybe they could work outside the cities and enjoy fresh air? I'm sure that the masterminds in government could think up something useful for them to do. Maybe the Chinese can use them to help build the railway that they hanker for?

Remember the Aussies who wanted to buy and transport elephants back home? Despite bending over backwards to ensure that the animals were not distressed and treated humanely the moron nationalistic minded fought like dervishes to ensure that they were not to be afforded the chance to live out their days in peace and a degree of comfort. I've often heard it prated by Thai folk that dogs are man's best friend. Well, the way they treat dumb beasts tells me that they don't deserve to enjoy the company of fellow humans. If you want a friend B1.

BTW do people still troll around the tourist centres carrying pythons? Why not thrill the tourists by placing a crocodile on their laps? Spiders might appeal since they can be easily hidden from sight should the BiB turn up looking for supplementary financial benefits.

[TheLaughingMan]

Elephants need to eat too. So what is wrong if people, or animal work for food. I suppose you do that too.

This is a fat male falang troll, please dont respond to this..... person.

[DP25]

To use a dog analogy, if you can't afford to feed or pay vets bill for your dog. You shouldn't get one to start with. Guess the same principle applies to an elephant.

That'd be great, but the fact is elephants live for 80 years and in the past they were used extensively in the lumber industry, so they could afford them when they got them. When that was banned, THOUSANDS of elephants became unemployed. Elephants are extremely expensive, and they aren't going anywhere for many decades. Mahouts aren't buying imported BMWs selling 20 baht sugar cane on the street, but if they don't the only option for some would be to put the animal down because they can not afford it. There are still thousands of domestic elephants in Thailand, many need to work somehow to survive.

Hope this group is also raising money and making plans to take care of lots of extremely large and hungry animals and not just making petitions.

[buba]

There is a farang near Petchburi who takes amimals from Thais that have them as pets. He then cages them up for the rest of thier lives while he reaps in large amounts of money for his own pocket, from animal loving doners

He has a couple of elefants already.

Edited December 26, 2010 by buba

[AleG]

To use a dog analogy, if you can't afford to feed or pay vets bill for your dog. You shouldn't get one to start with. Guess the same principle applies to an elephant.

That'd be great, but the fact is elephants live for 80 years and in the past they were used extensively in the lumber industry, so they could afford them when they got them. When that was banned, THOUSANDS of elephants became unemployed. Elephants are extremely expensive, and they aren't going anywhere for many decades. Mahouts aren't buying imported BMWs selling 20 baht sugar cane on the street, but if they don't the only option for some would be to put the animal down because they can not afford it. There are still thousands of domestic elephants in Thailand, many need to work somehow to survive.

Hope this group is also raising money and making plans to take care of lots of extremely large and hungry animals and not just making petitions.

This is a very even handed post; the truth of the matter is that there are lots of domesticated elephants that need to get fed and taken care of and there's also a limited space in nature reserves to reintroduce them or maintain an expanding wild elephant population. So while ideally those animals shouldn't need to work the reality is that without working there's very little place for them to exist.

One idea I had on how to remedy in part at least this conundrum is to "employ" the street elephants (and their mahouts) to work in public parks. That way they could earn their keep so to speak by moving things around (equipment, trimmings/cuttings, plants, etc...) and as a plus would be a great touristic attractions. Of course it would be necessary to do it in a sensible manner, not having the animal walking around children or things like that, and proper, regulated care should be given to the elephants. Perhaps though, normal city public parks are a bit optimistic, so instead they could be located to national parks and help in the labours of park rangers and the like.