Thai Ministry To Crack Down On Websites Offering Fake Diplomas

[webfact]

Ministry to crack down on websites offering fake diplomas

By Chuleeporn Aramnet

The Nation

The Education Ministry will take legal action against websites selling fake diplomas, Deputy Education Minister Chaiyos Chiramethakorn said yesterday.

There were about 10 websites selling such diplomas, he said.

"I have told the Office of the Higher Education Commission [Ohec] to file a case against them with the Crime Suppression Division," Chaiyos said.

In addition, he has told Ohec to send circulars to each university to check the database of their students and graduates, and print out the lists in case the database is hacked.

Chaiyos is seeking other measures to control the sale of fake diplomas, and is encouraging universities to use technology, such as printing diplomas with a watermark, barcode or stickers.

Chaiyos also voiced concern about the low-quality graduates being produced.

"Allowing low-quality students to graduate is a bigger problem than websites producing fake diplomas," he said, adding that every student should pass an exit exam before being allowed to graduate.

"I met with the Council of University Presidents of Thailand to tell them to control the quality of their graduates strictly. I will also meet with the presidents of Rajabhat, Rajamangala and private universities to discuss the same issue," Chaiyos said.

-- The Nation 2010-12-28

[mca]

"Allowing low-quality students to graduate is a bigger problem than websites producing fake diplomas,"

Sensible words. He won't last.

[wolf5370]

I think more than a watermark is needed - my UK paperwork has a hologram built into the paper (rather than just a sticker for example). How many employees are going to check with the uni's for each applicant for a job - they will simply believe the paperwork if it looks real. Maybe the MoE should hold the DB and allow online checking (this is easy even with privacy concerns - my degree certs have a code number on them and my name, uni, course etc - type in the info and the web page just says "found" or not). Not difficult to do.

PS: Agree with MCA 100% unfortunatly

Edit: Typo

Edited December 27, 2010 by wolf5370

[Scott]

I have to check degrees of applicants. The US has a National Clearinghouse. You send them the name on the certificate and the date and they send back a verification along with what the person received the degree in. Essentially, they have part of the information and you have the other part, so the two must match.

It's a little easier with foreigners, since they would have to have a fake passport in addition to a fake degree.

[lensta]

"Allowing low-quality students to graduate is a bigger problem than websites producing fake diplomas,"

Sensible words. He won't last.

As long as the "NO Fail" policy is in place at the Thai schools and universities, they will always produce a large number of low quality grauates.

Edited December 28, 2010 by lensta

[Derifo]

"Allowing low-quality students to graduate is a bigger problem than websites producing fake diplomas,"

Sensible words. He won't last.

As long as the "NO Fail" policy is in place at the Thai schools and universities, they will always produce a large number of low quality grauates.

That's what they should really be concerned about and address as soon as possible. Contrary to that, they should stop crying wolf.

[SailingHome]

I think more than a watermark is needed - my UK paperwork has a hologram built into the paper (rather than just a sticker for example). How many employees are going to check with the uni's for each applicant for a job - they will simply believe the paperwork if it looks real. Maybe the MoE should hold the DB and allow online checking (this is easy even with privacy concerns - my degree certs have a code number on them and my name, uni, course etc - type in the info and the web page just says "found" or not). Not difficult to do.

PS: Agree with MCA 100% unfortunatly

Edit: Typo

Let me guess... Buxton?

[papakaz]

...adding that every student should pass an exit exam before being allowed to graduate.

And with that ensure that nearly every student is indeed "low quality":

Always studying to get other-people's-answers right on one exam or another.

The unhealthy obsession with standardized tests that kills education starting with kindergarten now will officially continue up until the bachelor's degree?

So real learning, which was supposed to be put off until university, is now put off until, say, graduate school, then?

[lonewolf99]

I have to check degrees of applicants. The US has a National Clearinghouse. You send them the name on the certificate and the date and they send back a verification along with what the person received the degree in. Essentially, they have part of the information and you have the other part, so the two must match.

It's a little easier with foreigners, since they would have to have a fake passport in addition to a fake degree.

Oh Really,........... I have had legions of Indians and Fillipino's working for me on several projects around the globe.

They all have Degrees. In fact some have as many as 3. Highly intellectual these chaps, don't you know....?

I witnessed a Fillipino gent hack into a data base for an American University load up all the neccessary personal details of when his friend "attended" there and then sent the Uni an e-mail saying he had lost his certification in a house fire and could they courier a new Degree cert to his home.

Bingo - 10 days later a new Degree Cert arrived..................................no need for fake passports....

I think "FAKES" and "FAKING" go with the teritory..................TIT.......Any one want to buy a Rolex Watch ?

[Scott]

Well, let's see. Was it an accredited University. I presume he had the social security number and the matriculation number for the person--both rather hard to get.

Secondly, the degree would have been a replacement, which is suspect. Oh, and by the way, the certificate isn't the problem. It's that pesky transcript, which the MOE wants. I have 3 teachers who have no certificate--but they have their certified transcripts and a verification that a degree was granted. I have one who has a certificate, but no transcript--he couldn't get a letter from the MOE, a Teacher's License or a Work Permit. He spends his time crossing the border and will most likely be let go at the end of the year.

Oh, and did he hack into the Royal Thai Police site to get a police clearance as well?

Can people fake degrees? Of course. The point is can they make it difficult enough that only the most motivated and knowledgeable would try it. By and large, I don't think Thailand pays all that well to make it worth it, unless you are major criminal on the run from interpol and really want to teach English in Thailand. Not too many of those around, I would think.

[jcartermad]

I know of a School, were a friend works, who states that 50% of the farang teachers had no degree, TEFL or CELTA but all had impressive fake documentation. I have no idea where they get them but get them they do. One teacher, an American, was "let go" owing to a lack of a degree or possible interest in younger students, (alleged) but surprise to surprise he pitched up at another school with a shining degree! Must have been studying at the weekend??? Anyway he now gets the full pay deserving of a qualified farang teacher.

A degree is certicate of a good teacher however. All it proves is that he knows this and that on this and that. Get the degree, come here, walk into a 60 pupil classroom and see how much use a fake or real degree is to you. You are faced with issues no degree can cover. The language, the curriculum or range of subjects expected for a farang to teach. What does the average farang degree holder know about Health, Guidance, Library & Information etc.

A degree is just a filtering system to weed out backpackers. As someone once said - Those who can do - DO...those that cant do - TEACH. Anyway i did the DO bit in industrial for many years and now teach. The only measure i have is that my EP students are now fairly good in spoken and written English. They are confident and speak at ease.

Verification is the only way to stop these fakes degrees but my experience is that a holder of a degree is not always the better teacher. One guy i know, who has no degree is an excellent maths teacher. He teaches to Anuban level...the kids like him, they learn well and he says "why get a fake...I can do the job and the school knows it!" I said the school might but what about the MOE. They might kick him out. My advice to him is get on the bus at weekends and get the genuine paper. Study and relax.

The ministry guy wont last long. I concur. Rocking the boat in Thailand is never good for career progression. Stay quite, take the tea money and move on UP!

[ginjag]

I know of a School, were a friend works, who states that 50% of the farang teachers had no degree, TEFL or CELTA but all had impressive fake documentation. I have no idea where they get them but get them they do. One teacher, an American, was "let go" owing to a lack of a degree or possible interest in younger students, (alleged) but surprise to surprise he pitched up at another school with a shining degree! Must have been studying at the weekend??? Anyway he now gets the full pay deserving of a qualified farang teacher.

A degree is certicate of a good teacher however. All it proves is that he knows this and that on this and that. Get the degree, come here, walk into a 60 pupil classroom and see how much use a fake or real degree is to you. You are faced with issues no degree can cover. The language, the curriculum or range of subjects expected for a farang to teach. What does the average farang degree holder know about Health, Guidance, Library & Information etc.

A degree is just a filtering system to weed out backpackers. As someone once said - Those who can do - DO...those that cant do - TEACH. Anyway i did the DO bit in industrial for many years and now teach. The only measure i have is that my EP students are now fairly good in spoken and written English. They are confident and speak at ease.

Verification is the only way to stop these fakes degrees but my experience is that a holder of a degree is not always the better teacher. One guy i know, who has no degree is an excellent maths teacher. He teaches to Anuban level...the kids like him, they learn well and he says "why get a fake...I can do the job and the school knows it!" I said the school might but what about the MOE. They might kick him out. My advice to him is get on the bus at weekends and get the genuine paper. Study and relax.

The ministry guy wont last long. I concur. Rocking the boat in Thailand is never good for career progression. Stay quite, take the tea money and move on UP!

Young people near need a degree to work at a check-out -or even stacking boxes. No wonder most are on farms OR down south (Phuket ) chonburi working (Pattaya) to work you need a school certificate, I would guess 25 per cent dont finish school. I helped out locally for 2 terms at high schools helping with my bit of English--FOR FREE-and was thanked with a certificate, from the area Education chief.... Then to be told Immigration wouldn,t have been pleased-even if I went for free. so I simply stopped helping. The kids loved the humour-the teachers welcomed the help and company......English teachers spell wrongly---mix up the words in sentences, DEGREES HA. HA. as you can see from my writing I,m far from the best.

[givenall]

"Allowing low-quality students to graduate is a bigger problem than websites producing fake diplomas,"

Sensible words. He won't last.

Does this mean all private and some of the public universities are out business since the diploma from them are also worthless

[bangon04]

Well, let's see. Was it an accredited University. I presume he had the social security number and the matriculation number for the person--both rather hard to get.

Secondly, the degree would have been a replacement, which is suspect. Oh, and by the way, the certificate isn't the problem. It's that pesky transcript, which the MOE wants. I have 3 teachers who have no certificate--but they have their certified transcripts and a verification that a degree was granted. I have one who has a certificate, but no transcript--he couldn't get a letter from the MOE, a Teacher's License or a Work Permit. He spends his time crossing the border and will most likely be let go at the end of the year.

Oh, and did he hack into the Royal Thai Police site to get a police clearance as well?

Can people fake degrees? Of course. The point is can they make it difficult enough that only the most motivated and knowledgeable would try it. By and large, I don't think Thailand pays all that well to make it worth it, unless you are major criminal on the run from interpol and really want to teach English in Thailand. Not too many of those around, I would think.

How many English schools are there in pattaya?

[lowushatin]

I know of a School, were a friend works, who states that 50% of the farang teachers had no degree, TEFL or CELTA but all had impressive fake documentation. I have no idea where they get them but get them they do. One teacher, an American, was "let go" owing to a lack of a degree or possible interest in younger students, (alleged) but surprise to surprise he pitched up at another school with a shining degree! Must have been studying at the weekend??? Anyway he now gets the full pay deserving of a qualified farang teacher.

Which school was that? Im doing a research on the subject. thanks

[asiawatcher]

The way the degrees are handed out here in wholesale fashion, flowers, flowing robes, the bow and bob courtesy and family pics etc., it is all a huge joke. There may be diligent students and yes there must be, but overall, the degrees are not worth the paper they are written on when it comes to practical application. I have yet to have degree'd graduates prove to be able to deliver what their study was all about and that is after 10 years of trying. I now get graduate Thai's from Western Uni's and they at least are gradable to a decent standard. I know - someone here will pop in a comment about the top uni's from Thailand but so many who I have interviewed from these were poor little rich kids who were only interested in the social activities of universities.

[jayjay0]

I know of a School, were a friend works, who states that 50% of the farang teachers had no degree, TEFL or CELTA but all had impressive fake documentation. I have no idea where they get them but get them they do. One teacher, an American, was "let go" owing to a lack of a degree or possible interest in younger students, (alleged) but surprise to surprise he pitched up at another school with a shining degree! Must have been studying at the weekend??? Anyway he now gets the full pay deserving of a qualified farang teacher.

A degree is certicate of a good teacher however. All it proves is that he knows this and that on this and that. Get the degree, come here, walk into a 60 pupil classroom and see how much use a fake or real degree is to you. You are faced with issues no degree can cover. The language, the curriculum or range of subjects expected for a farang to teach. What does the average farang degree holder know about Health, Guidance, Library & Information etc.

A degree is just a filtering system to weed out backpackers. As someone once said - Those who can do - DO...those that cant do - TEACH. Anyway i did the DO bit in industrial for many years and now teach. The only measure i have is that my EP students are now fairly good in spoken and written English. They are confident and speak at ease.

Verification is the only way to stop these fakes degrees but my experience is that a holder of a degree is not always the better teacher. One guy i know, who has no degree is an excellent maths teacher. He teaches to Anuban level...the kids like him, they learn well and he says "why get a fake...I can do the job and the school knows it!" I said the school might but what about the MOE. They might kick him out. My advice to him is get on the bus at weekends and get the genuine paper. Study and relax.

The ministry guy wont last long. I concur. Rocking the boat in Thailand is never good for career progression. Stay quite, take the tea money and move on UP!

I have a friend who was teaching English in Korea for six years. Korea finally toughened up the qualification and you had to have a degree or certificate of one sort or another. My friend had neither and was let go.

The point of the story is my friend was a certified instructor in the construction industry on subjects ranging from first aid to scaffold building safety. He knew how to teach. Far to much importance put on a piece of paper. None on results.

This is so true here in Thailand.

[chuang]

I know of a School, were a friend works, who states that 50% of the farang teachers had no degree, TEFL or CELTA but all had impressive fake documentation. I have no idea where they get them but get them they do. One teacher, an American, was "let go" owing to a lack of a degree or possible interest in younger students, (alleged) but surprise to surprise he pitched up at another school with a shining degree! Must have been studying at the weekend??? Anyway he now gets the full pay deserving of a qualified farang teacher.

Easy...you can get them from Khao San road in Bangkok....i got a string of PhDs from there...