So What'S Going To Happen To Older Bike Owners When Benzine Is No Longer Avail?

[submaniac]

So I was reading the thread on GT-Rider which states that benzine will no longer be available due to switching over to gasohol. As many of you know, an older bike simply can't run on gasohol without their being 'problems' to the fuel lines/carburetor. Are there any additives which can neutralize the effects of the gasohol, or are owners of older bikes just SOL? Thanks.

[katabeachbum]

Removed link to BKK Post as it is against forum rules to quote or post links to BKK Post and Phuket Wan

[Mr.Poko]

I guess people will try to keep repairing the older motorcycles until it's not possible. But what you suggest will happen in the future is already happening on a daily base at motorcycle repair shops throughout Thailand.

I found this article some time ago about cleaning carburettors due to gasohol use http://www.motorcycle.in.th/article.php/Carburetor-Rebuilds-and-Cleaning

It gives a good idea about the future, I cannot imagine what happens if E20 becomes the dominate fuel at the petrol stations in Thailand

[katabeachbum]

I guess people will try to keep repairing the older motorcycles until it's not possible. But what you suggest will happen in the future is already happening on a daily base at motorcycle repair shops throughout Thailand.

I found this article some time ago about cleaning carburettors due to gasohol use http://www.motorcycl...ds-and-Cleaning

It gives a good idea about the future, I cannot imagine what happens if E20 becomes the dominate fuel at the petrol stations in Thailand

If petrol is totally removed from sales, I guess only solution is to replace fuel valves, hoses and carbs with Ethanol tolerant alternatives

More complicated with injection bikes unable to handle Ethanol

[gotlost]

Scrap.

[ScubaBuddha]

I believe there are a lot of cars that have the same problem. When they tried to switch from 95 to 95 gasahol a few years ago, the sports car clubs in Bangkok raised such a stink that they postponed it. Seems it is happening again now.

[Garry]

I guess people will try to keep repairing the older motorcycles until it's not possible. But what you suggest will happen in the future is already happening on a daily base at motorcycle repair shops throughout Thailand.

I found this article some time ago about cleaning carburettors due to gasohol use http://www.motorcycl...ds-and-Cleaning

It gives a good idea about the future, I cannot imagine what happens if E20 becomes the dominate fuel at the petrol stations in Thailand

If petrol is totally removed from sales, I guess only solution is to replace fuel valves, hoses and carbs with Ethanol tolerant alternatives

More complicated with injection bikes unable to handle Ethanol

I'm in the process of sourcing replacement 'o' rings (perflouro-elastomer) and similar resistant tubing as a kit for my 999S, that will handle alcohol mix fuels. They come in different colours so it will be easy enough to know if you have replaced the seals or not. If possible, I am going for a white or blue material colour from the supplier,

This is a chart that I sourced, converted to an excell spreadsheet, took a screenshot for a jpeg file, to give a guideline on what will work and what will not work material wise.

[katabeachbum]

I believe there are a lot of cars that have the same problem. When they tried to switch from 95 to 95 gasahol a few years ago, the sports car clubs in Bangkok raised such a stink that they postponed it. Seems it is happening again now.

most cars older than 2005, some cars older than 2006, can not handle Ethanol 10%, E10 Gasohol. Not to mention E20.

they have used gasohol in Brasil for 4 decades, but all cars sold there are specced for this fuel. Thats not the case in the rest of the world

[katabeachbum]

I guess people will try to keep repairing the older motorcycles until it's not possible. But what you suggest will happen in the future is already happening on a daily base at motorcycle repair shops throughout Thailand.

I found this article some time ago about cleaning carburettors due to gasohol use http://www.motorcycl...ds-and-Cleaning

It gives a good idea about the future, I cannot imagine what happens if E20 becomes the dominate fuel at the petrol stations in Thailand

If petrol is totally removed from sales, I guess only solution is to replace fuel valves, hoses and carbs with Ethanol tolerant alternatives

More complicated with injection bikes unable to handle Ethanol

I'm in the process of sourcing replacement 'o' rings (perflouro-elastomer) and similar resistant tubing as a kit for my 999S, that will handle alcohol mix fuels. They come in different colours so it will be easy enough to know if you have replaced the seals or not. If possible, I am going for a white or blue material colour from the supplier,

This is a chart that I sourced, converted to an excell spreadsheet, took a screenshot for a jpeg file, to give a guideline on what will work and what will not work material wise.

Thats the way to go

fuel pump and injectors you can check partsnumber with Magneti Marelli/Bosch to see if they are Ethanol compatible. Hoses easy to replace. Filler cap gasket easy to replace.

95 Gasohol next

and then sell the kits to Ducati LOS

[pluto_manibo]

I just bought a new bike and asked the seller the exact same question. His reply was that, Thailand will always have some petrol stations selling 91, they will just be more scarce. The truth remains to be seen....

[CMX]

No different from other evolutions. Old stuff will be fixed as long as feasible and then, as suggested above, scrapped. A happy goodbye to older two-cycle planet poisoners.

In the aggregate, "cleaner" bikes (except for those castrated by mods, usually against the laws of nations and always for their personal selfish satisfaction) will help keep down the speed of global warming.

[thaicbr]

No different from other evolutions. Old stuff will be fixed as long as feasible and then, as suggested above, scrapped. A happy goodbye to older two-cycle planet poisoners.

In the aggregate, "cleaner" bikes (except for those castrated by mods, usually against the laws of nations and always for their personal selfish satisfaction) will help keep down the speed of global warming.

CMX.. our bikes are NOT 2-cycle planet poisoners. And WHY should they be scrapped due to MISGUIDED rules and regulations from Governments with vested interests (How many Thai MP's families own Ethanol plants/ crop storage facilities).

Because lets face it that's WHAT this is about.

There are very few Governments around the world who are trying to cause hardship and excessive expense for their people by banning regular Gasoline especially in a 2nd world/ developing country.

Generally bikes are cleaner than other vehicle engines anyway. Even your hated 2t's are more environmentally friendly than a Jet aircraft.

[HDRIDER]

No different from other evolutions. Old stuff will be fixed as long as feasible and then, as suggested above, scrapped. A happy goodbye to older two-cycle planet poisoners.

In the aggregate, "cleaner" bikes (except for those castrated by mods, usually against the laws of nations and always for their personal selfish satisfaction) will help keep down the speed of global warming.

I dont believe this^^^^^^^^

[katabeachbum]

No different from other evolutions. Old stuff will be fixed as long as feasible and then, as suggested above, scrapped. A happy goodbye to older two-cycle planet poisoners.

In the aggregate, "cleaner" bikes (except for those castrated by mods, usually against the laws of nations and always for their personal selfish satisfaction) will help keep down the speed of global warming.

CMX.. our bikes are NOT 2-cycle planet poisoners. And WHY should they be scrapped due to MISGUIDED rules and regulations from Governments with vested interests (How many Thai MP's families own Ethanol plants/ crop storage facilities).

Because lets face it that's WHAT this is about.

There are very few Governments around the world who are trying to cause hardship and excessive expense for their people by banning regular Gasoline especially in a 2nd world/ developing country.

Generally bikes are cleaner than other vehicle engines anyway. Even your hated 2t's are more environmentally friendly than a Jet aircraft.

Blending Ethanol in petrol doesnt have much to do with emissions. On the contrary most conclude its not very good for the environment. In LOS its done to reduce USD imported oil. as it is in Brazil.

[CMX]

Denial is a simplistic defense mechanism. But it works for most of us. I want very few taxes and wonderful services and will not accept that I can't get it because of waste in government (meaning I don't want any responsibility and am living in a delusional fog). For those squeezing more horsepower from a bike, global warming does not exist or - because I own but one bike and less than a drop in the ocean (not a class of many millions around the world), they are statistically insignificant. Selfish thinking is our lot.

And speaking of airplanes, I used to be like me (selfish and selfishier). Flew light airplanes for sport. Very fuel inefficient and lots of burn out the pipe; being airplanes, and back a few years ago, no regulations applied. But then they introduced no-lead fuel requirements. Many engines did not like it, and we're speaking of significant bucks. I realized the problem of pollution, accepted it, but opposed the requirement and shopped around as long as I could for the cheaper product. Selfish interest over the public interest. Recently I purchased a bike with a carb, because it was cheaper (and apparently clean enough to pass Thai standards), but not so refined as a much more expensive Fi brand.

Agree, corporations lie, the bigger the bigger.

But this shift in Thailand toward gasahol, as katabb says above, is due to government's absolute passion for exporting much more than importing. Economic thinking in which all the world is involved, Thailand particularly because of its history. U.S. and China sparring, etc. Benzine everywhere is a great weight on the national trade balance for importing nations - and a different problem from pollution itself, as take it all around, gasahol does not save much if any with regard to carbon use.

Admittedly, no gathering of bikers will ever agree with me, because it is not in their self interest or the public interest, as perceived. Harley above says it clearly. Virtually all governments on the planet have set carbon limits, including those lands of our birth. But we know "better" - conspiracy theories, etc.

Edited January 22, 2011 by CMX

[nikster]

It's not gonna happen so it's a moot point.... or, put it another way, worry about that when it's already happened.

I can't imagine destroying the rural population's cars/bikes would be going over too well with the general public. The government can generally do what they want but touch people's vehicles and you have an instant uprising.

Moreover there is no economic argument to be made for gasohol - it all seems like a ploy to make money for those entrenched interests that have stakes in ethanol production. I do believe that common sense will prevail - but not before all other options have been explored

Edited January 22, 2011 by nikster

[nikster]

No different from other evolutions. Old stuff will be fixed as long as feasible and then, as suggested above, scrapped. A happy goodbye to older two-cycle planet poisoners.

In the aggregate, "cleaner" bikes (except for those castrated by mods, usually against the laws of nations and always for their personal selfish satisfaction) will help keep down the speed of global warming.

I dont believe this^^^^^^^^

I am the greenest greenie you'll find, and I am somewhat proud to still have the CAT on my bike. But the whole global warming thing is simply BS. Not that it's happening, but what's being done to (A) find out if it's really us doing it and ( find countermeasures that are going to work. As it is the cause seems a bit unclear, and the solutions nothing more than educated guesses by Al Gore. E.g. mostly worthless. You can't tell me that you can predict global climate if you can't even predict the weather a few days in advance.

I am absolutely for greener bikes, but not because of global warming - because of much more immediate impact of pollution.

[Garry]

Thats the way to go

fuel pump and injectors you can check partsnumber with Magneti Marelli/Bosch to see if they are Ethanol compatible. Hoses easy to replace. Filler cap gasket easy to replace.

95 Gasohol next

and then sell the kits to Ducati LOS

Yes that's part of the plan. I intend to find out the flow rate of my current injectors (no point asking Ducati), but once I get the part number, I'm sure I can either google it or set up a simple flow bench to measure their flow rates. Opening cycles don't differ too much, but I will worry about that at a later date. One I can bounce these figures against known current market ethanol capable type injectors, I can pick and choose the quality/brand of injector I want.

:jap:

[thaicbr]

nikster: I can't imagine destroying the rural population's cars/bikes would be going over too well with the general public. The government can generally do what they want but touch people's vehicles and you have an instant uprising.

....................................................................................................................................................................................

How will they know it is destroying their cars and bikes.. No one is telling them.

Rather quite the reverse if you have a look at Ptt's list of ethanol ok vehicles. It's on here somewhere.

Then EVERY bike and car made in Thailand back to the dark ages is ok (inc CMX's dreaded 2T's)

Most PTT attendants will happily but gasohol in a 2t or any other vehicle that comes in. Because they think it's not their job to educate the public (it is considering PTT is THE oil company here in Thailand)

Lack of education and the willingness to accept (even when educated) is what will allow it to happen.

[katabeachbum]

nikster: I can't imagine destroying the rural population's cars/bikes would be going over too well with the general public. The government can generally do what they want but touch people's vehicles and you have an instant uprising.

....................................................................................................................................................................................

How will they know it is destroying their cars and bikes.. No one is telling them.

Rather quite the reverse if you have a look at Ptt's list of ethanol ok vehicles. It's on here somewhere.

Then EVERY bike and car made in Thailand back to the dark ages is ok (inc CMX's dreaded 2T's)

Most PTT attendants will happily but gasohol in a 2t or any other vehicle that comes in. Because they think it's not their job to educate the public (it is considering PTT is THE oil company here in Thailand)

Lack of education and the willingness to accept (even when educated) is what will allow it to happen.

and Shell is even worse. 95 V-Power contains 10% Ethanol, but is not called gasohol as it sells better as V-Power, and pump attendants deny its gasohol, its V-Power

and about the population and their old engines, they will just be told they are worn out.................................

[phaethon]

So What'S Going To Happen To Older Bike Owners When Benzine Is No Longer Avail?

You'll have to start drinking Chang like the rest of us...

[adamjohn]

My motorcycle is 11 years old; never had 1 day of trouble using bio fuel. I stopped using 91 benzine primarily to boycott oil companies!

I don't know why anyone thinks gasahol is not good.

[katabeachbum]

My motorcycle is 11 years old; never had 1 day of trouble using bio fuel. I stopped using 91 benzine primarily to boycott oil companies!

I don't know why anyone thinks gasahol is not good.

Some bikes can handle it. Lucky you

I dont see how buing Ethanol from the oil companies boycott oil companies, but up to you. Ethanol is subsidised, and oil companies may have more profit on Gasohol than petrol, as this is the governments method so far to fade out petrol

However some bikes get really damaged by ethanol. The dissolved plastic and rubber parts in fuel system can easily be replaced, but when they melt they end up in combustion chamber and can cause serious, expensive damage.

Not very exciting waiting 4 months for spareparts to rebuild your Ducati, BMW, Honda or Harley Davidson engine

[KRS1]

There are metal replacement floats available for carbs.

[thaicbr]

My motorcycle is 11 years old; never had 1 day of trouble using bio fuel. I stopped using 91 benzine primarily to boycott oil companies!

I don't know why anyone thinks gasahol is not good.

What bike and how long have you been using Gasohol. Are you and your bike in Thailand?

And yes i agree with kata..

Also some people believe that the use of ethanol actually increases global warming and world food hunger due to the amount of land required to be cleared and farmed solely for ethanol production.

[LivinLOS]

nikster: I can't imagine destroying the rural population's cars/bikes would be going over too well with the general public. The government can generally do what they want but touch people's vehicles and you have an instant uprising.

....................................................................................................................................................................................

How will they know it is destroying their cars and bikes.. No one is telling them.

Rather quite the reverse if you have a look at Ptt's list of ethanol ok vehicles. It's on here somewhere.

Then EVERY bike and car made in Thailand back to the dark ages is ok (inc CMX's dreaded 2T's)

Most PTT attendants will happily but gasohol in a 2t or any other vehicle that comes in. Because they think it's not their job to educate the public (it is considering PTT is THE oil company here in Thailand)

Lack of education and the willingness to accept (even when educated) is what will allow it to happen.

and Shell is even worse. 95 V-Power contains 10% Ethanol, but is not called gasohol as it sells better as V-Power, and pump attendants deny its gasohol, its V-Power

and about the population and their old engines, they will just be told they are worn out.................................

Actually says gasohol in Thai.. They just never changed the english script..

And yes the shell on Phuket lies.. Just had this debate on GT-Rider too where riders thought the CM one was still selling 95 Benzine.. Of course at 37b a liter thats aint the fact !!

I dont think we will see a total lack of 91 over the next few years, and thats all I need to get out of my ride.

[smedly]

Denial is a simplistic defense mechanism. But it works for most of us. I want very few taxes and wonderful services and will not accept that I can't get it because of waste in government (meaning I don't want any responsibility and am living in a delusional fog). For those squeezing more horsepower from a bike, global warming does not exist or - because I own but one bike and less than a drop in the ocean (not a class of many millions around the world), they are statistically insignificant. Selfish thinking is our lot.

And speaking of airplanes, I used to be like me (selfish and selfishier). Flew light airplanes for sport. Very fuel inefficient and lots of burn out the pipe; being airplanes, and back a few years ago, no regulations applied. But then they introduced no-lead fuel requirements. Many engines did not like it, and we're speaking of significant bucks. I realized the problem of pollution, accepted it, but opposed the requirement and shopped around as long as I could for the cheaper product. Selfish interest over the public interest. Recently I purchased a bike with a carb, because it was cheaper (and apparently clean enough to pass Thai standards), but not so refined as a much more expensive Fi brand.

Agree, corporations lie, the bigger the bigger.

But this shift in Thailand toward gasahol, as katabb says above, is due to government's absolute passion for exporting much more than importing. Economic thinking in which all the world is involved, Thailand particularly because of its history. U.S. and China sparring, etc. Benzine everywhere is a great weight on the national trade balance for importing nations - and a different problem from pollution itself, as take it all around, gasahol does not save much if any with regard to carbon use.

Admittedly, no gathering of bikers will ever agree with me, because it is not in their self interest or the public interest, as perceived. Harley above says it clearly. Virtually all governments on the planet have set carbon limits, including those lands of our birth. But we know "better" - conspiracy theories, etc.

I think you're drinking it mate, do you just like listening to yourself or what lol

[MaiChai]

Producing fuel from food stuffs will become so expensive that it will be cheaper to use crude oil? I jest you not; if palm oil/sugar is diverted to making fuel it creates food shortages, which push up prices. The world is currently going through a food price spike. Thus, the Thais need to keep their options open and be flexible to switch back and forth between biofuels and using crude, depending on prices for the commodities.

I also see alot more Thai bikers reverting back to 91 bensin. I wonder why? Because they don't like the new fuels?

[powderpuff]

Man made Global warming IMO is a hoax used by the left to scare people.

btw - the floats are not the problem. It is the O ring seals as Garry has mentioned.

[Garry]

There are metal replacement floats available for carbs.

Man made Global warming IMO is a hoax used by the left to scare people.

btw - the floats are not the problem. It is the O ring seals as Garry has mentioned.

Not exactly true PP,

Floats can be a problem if the plastic they are made of is not compatible with ethanol / alcohol. I have actually seen plastic floats perish from methanol contamination on a dragbike. When the guy bought the carburetters he neglected to mention to the seller that he was going to run methanol, as he would have been given a different part number batch that will handle methanol.

:jap: