Thaksin's Lawyer Robert Amsterdam Brings Crackdown On Reds To International Criminal Court

[webfact]

Robert Amsterdam Brings May 19 Crackdown on Reds to ICC

Robert Amsterdam, legal advisor to former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra, has announced he will be bringing charges against the Thai military for cracking down on red shirt protesters to the International Criminal Court.

-- Tan Network 2011-01-31

[barka]

What a waste of time..THAKSIN IS HISTORY...Hes passed his ....SELL BY DATE....

[SomTumTiger]

Thaksin tries to be relevent, but it is all sound and fury, signifying nothing.

[Buchholz]

ICC Vice-President Hans-Peter Kaul, who was in Bangkok recently, has already explained why the Red Shirt case won't be taken up by the ICC for several reasons.

Notwithstanding that, Amsterdam doesn't come off to well arguing their case, anyway:

[Insight]

Have people read some of the BS in these reports? Here's statement #59 by "Anonymous Witness 22"

After the 2nd Infantry Battalion breached the Red Shirt barricades, they secured the entire Ratchaprasong area. By 17:00 hours, the Army had fully secured all of the Central World buildings. Allcivilians were removed from the buildings, including numerous security guards who worked at Central World. After the civilians were removed, soldiers of the 2nd Infantry Battalion were posted outside Central World to prevent anyone from approaching or entering. The purpose of this exercise was to

permit a team of arsonists contracted by the Army to plant incendiary devices inside Central World. These devices were intentionally ignited at approximately 17:45 hours, destroying the Zen store building. The operation was planned by the Army Leadership, with the consent and approval of the Government Leadership, several weeks in advance of May 19. The purpose of the operation was to cement in the public mind the concept that the Red Shirt movement was violent and dangerous, which the Government Leadership and the Army Leadership believed would create the impression that the Army’s actions in suppressing the Red Shirts were justified. In fact, the Red Shirts had nothing to do

with the fires that destroyed part of the Central World complex.

Available here http://www.thaiaccountability.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Statement-of-Anonymous-Witness-No.-22.pdf

I'm sure there's more than a few witnesses on ThaiVisa who can testify that the reds had planted "incendiary devices" days before May 19th, along with the footage of red shirts burning and looting the place.

/edit - Here's my own favourite from that day:

Edited January 31, 2011 by Insight

[jdinasia]

Ouch ... she (the Al Jazeera journalist) ripped him apart.

oh ... that is the interview where he said he had never heard it suggested that Thaksin was funding .....

Edited January 31, 2011 by jdinasia

[SomTumTiger]

ICC Vice-President Hans-Peter Kaul, who was in Bangkok recently, has already explained why the Red Shirt case won't be taken up by the ICC for several reasons.

Notwithstanding that, Amsterdam doesn't come off to well arguing their case, anyway:

That was an excellent interview. Would love to here the Thaksin/Red champions comments as they watch this.

[animatic]

That damned hampster on a legal treadmill has to do SOMETHING to justify billing by the hour. Something like this has years of billable hours. When you've hooked yourself a live one, reel them in nice and slow.

Edited January 31, 2011 by animatic

[animatic]

ICC Vice-President Hans-Peter Kaul, who was in Bangkok recently, has already explained why the Red Shirt case won't be taken up by the ICC for several reasons.

Notwithstanding that, Amsterdam doesn't come off to well arguing their case, anyway:

That was an excellent interview. Would love to here the Thaksin/Red champions comments as they watch this.

Interviewer: "Are these protesters being paid by Mr. Thaksin to participate?"

Amsterdam: Ab..ab.absolutely not! I've not even heard this as an accusation."

Guess he hadn't been listening or reading much about Thailand.

He is quoted as saying that the legitimacy of the Bank Of Thailand "arose from the coup in 2006."

Isn't that something they ought to sue him over?

I seem to remember 'the legitimacy of Bank Of Thailand' was around decades before Thaksin

ever took power, let alone arose from the coup in 2006.

Is this a master class in interviewing faux pas?

My favorite quote:

"And my answer to you is; #1 I have no clue...."

Edited January 31, 2011 by animatic

[chainarong]

Err Who is Thaskin???

[jdinasia]

Interviewer: "Are these protesters being paid to protest?"

Amsterdam: Absolutely not! I haven't even heard this as an accusation."

He then went on when pressured further to say it didn't matter if they were getting paid or not.

[webfact]

PM unworried by UDD application to International Criminal Court to investigate 'crimes against humanity' in Thailand; affirms he does not hold dual nationality as accused /MCOT

[Robby nz]

What amazes me is that Thaksin continues to spend money on what is obviously a lost cause.

His spend must be in the billions now.

And there must have been a corosponding monetary cost to the country.

As well as the cost in lives lost and ruined because of the disruption that can be directly atributed to him.

Pertaps it should be Thailand taking him to the ICC.

[Buchholz]

The last time I heard ramblings this bad, it was by a patient suffering through cerebral malaria with a temperature of 106 while he ranted and rambled through the auditory and visual hallucinations he was suffering from:

Thai crackdown on ‘red shirts’ planned years ago, report alleges

The Thai government’s crackdown on “red shirt” protesters last spring was planned nearly four years in advance and modeled on the 1989 Tienanmen Square massacre, a report contends, saying Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva approved military force against unarmed civilians. The report also alleged two Bangkok hospitals colluded with the Thai government to cremate bodies of civilians killed in skirmishes and to destroy evidence of possible crimes. The report, prepared by the red shirts’ Toronto-based legal team, is expected to be filed with the International Criminal Court on Monday. It is asking the court to investigate whether the Thai government’s actions constituted crimes against humanity.

An estimated 90 people died and nearly 2,000 were wounded in clashes with government forces after demonstrators took to the streets of Bangkok, demanding Abhisit dissolve the legislature and hold elections. A draft of the report, obtained by the Star, alleges Abhisit, along with senior government and army officials, began drawing up plans for suppressing anti-government protesters shortly after he assumed power in a military coup in 2006.

The plans included the construction of a full-scale mock-up of Rachadamnoen Ave. — an upscale street sometimes known as Bangkok’s Champs Élysées — where protesters were killed and injured last April 10, the report contends. The mock-up, which was built at a training ground used by the 11th regiment of the Thai army, included “killing zones.” Thai military personnel, including snipers, rehearsed at the mock-up as early as February 2007, the report alleges. Immediately after the 2006 coup, the country’s leaders came to a consensus that the red shirts would eventually rise up in protest, so they began planning military countermeasures, says the report, which names 15 senior Thai government, army, and police officers.

“It is safe to say that the Royal Thai Army carried out an attack against the red shirt civilian population according to a ‘state or organizational policy’ devised and approved at the highest levels of the country’s civilian and military leadership,” lawyers Bob Amsterdam and Dean Peroff argue in the report. It was prepared on behalf of the National United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship, the formal name for the red shirt movement. Amsterdam has acknowledged that former Thai prime minster Thaksin Shinawatra, who was deposed in the 2006 coup, is helping to pay the movement’s legal expenses.

MORE HERE:

http://www.thestar.com/news/article/930547--thai-crackdown-on-red-shirts-planned-years-ago-report-alleges

Toronto Star - January 30, 2011

[jdinasia]

Amazing ---- years before Abhisit was elected PM by parliament he was planning this?

Yeah --- clueless is the word for RA

[Buchholz]

PM unworried by UDD application to International Criminal Court to investigate 'crimes against humanity' in Thailand; affirms he does not hold dual nationality as accused

The above dual nationality issue was made because of further Amsterdam assertions in regards the Red Shirts case at the ICC:

One potential obstacle the red shirts face in getting the court to consider their complaint is whether Thailand comes within the court’s jurisdiction. Thailand was not a signatory to the Rome Statute, which brought the court into existence in 2002, so the court would normally not have the authority to launch an investigation into the government’s activities.

But Amsterdam and Peroff argue the court still has the power to investigate Abhisit for possible crimes against humanity because he is a British citizen, born in England on Aug. 3, 1964. The court has the authority to investigate and prosecute people who are citizens of countries that are its members, which the United Kingdom is.

While Thailand is not a member of the court, it is a member of the United Nations, and the UN Security Council can ask the court to investigate the government’s role in last spring’s demonstrations to determine whether it amounted to criminal activity, the report says.

http://www.thestar.com/news/article/930547--thai-crackdown-on-red-shirts-planned-years-ago-report-alleges

[oldsailor35]

What a waste of time..THAKSIN IS HISTORY...Hes passed his ....SELL BY DATE....

Maybe, but the army are still there and they used live ammo to quell a political protest, not even rubber bullets or tear gas.

[oldsailor35]

Have people read some of the BS in these reports? Here's statement #59 by "Anonymous Witness 22"

After the 2nd Infantry Battalion breached the Red Shirt barricades, they secured the entire Ratchaprasong area. By 17:00 hours, the Army had fully secured all of the Central World buildings. Allcivilians were removed from the buildings, including numerous security guards who worked at Central World. After the civilians were removed, soldiers of the 2nd Infantry Battalion were posted outside Central World to prevent anyone from approaching or entering. The purpose of this exercise was to

permit a team of arsonists contracted by the Army to plant incendiary devices inside Central World. These devices were intentionally ignited at approximately 17:45 hours, destroying the Zen store building. The operation was planned by the Army Leadership, with the consent and approval of the Government Leadership, several weeks in advance of May 19. The purpose of the operation was to cement in the public mind the concept that the Red Shirt movement was violent and dangerous, which the Government Leadership and the Army Leadership believed would create the impression that the Army’s actions in suppressing the Red Shirts were justified. In fact, the Red Shirts had nothing to do

with the fires that destroyed part of the Central World complex.

Available here http://www.thaiaccou...ness-No.-22.pdf

I'm sure there's more than a few witnesses on ThaiVisa who can testify that the reds had planted "incendiary devices" days before May 19th, along with the footage of red shirts burning and looting the place.

/edit - Here's my own favourite from that day:

This is not the first time we have heard this regarding the army and there are even pics of them getting into the building.

[Buchholz]

The last time I heard ramblings this bad, it was by a patient suffering through cerebral malaria with a temperature of 106 while he ranted and rambled through the auditory and visual hallucinations he was suffering from:

The report also alleged two Bangkok hospitals colluded with the Thai government to cremate bodies of civilians killed in skirmishes and to destroy evidence of possible crimes.

At least we know now what happened to those "thousands killed" that Thaksin alleged were killed during Black Songkran 2009.

They were all cremated at hospitals...

"C'mon Mr. Amsterdam, take this medication, it will help to stop the voices."

[Insight]

Have people read some of the BS in these reports? Here's statement #59 by "Anonymous Witness 22"

After the 2nd Infantry Battalion breached the Red Shirt barricades, they secured the entire Ratchaprasong area. By 17:00 hours, the Army had fully secured all of the Central World buildings. Allcivilians were removed from the buildings, including numerous security guards who worked at Central World. After the civilians were removed, soldiers of the 2nd Infantry Battalion were posted outside Central World to prevent anyone from approaching or entering. The purpose of this exercise was to

permit a team of arsonists contracted by the Army to plant incendiary devices inside Central World. These devices were intentionally ignited at approximately 17:45 hours, destroying the Zen store building. The operation was planned by the Army Leadership, with the consent and approval of the Government Leadership, several weeks in advance of May 19. The purpose of the operation was to cement in the public mind the concept that the Red Shirt movement was violent and dangerous, which the Government Leadership and the Army Leadership believed would create the impression that the Army’s actions in suppressing the Red Shirts were justified. In fact, the Red Shirts had nothing to do

with the fires that destroyed part of the Central World complex.

Available here http://www.thaiaccou...ness-No.-22.pdf

I'm sure there's more than a few witnesses on ThaiVisa who can testify that the reds had planted "incendiary devices" days before May 19th, along with the footage of red shirts burning and looting the place.

/edit - Here's my own favourite from that day:

This is not the first time we have heard this regarding the army and there are even pics of them getting into the building.

Perhaps you should review a much circulated and discussed document which concludes that the photos depicting the army in the CTW building were taken one or two days after the fire was extinguished.

Unless you're talking about other photos, in which I'm sure many of us will be keen to see.

/edit fix link

Edited January 31, 2011 by Insight

[whybother]

What a waste of time..THAKSIN IS HISTORY...Hes passed his ....SELL BY DATE....

Maybe, but the army are still there and they used live ammo to quell a political protest, not even rubber bullets or tear gas.

Actually, they did use rubber bullets and tear gas. But they weren't much use against grenades and guns.

[jdinasia]

What a waste of time..THAKSIN IS HISTORY...Hes passed his ....SELL BY DATE....

Maybe, but the army are still there and they used live ammo to quell a political protest, not even rubber bullets or tear gas.

Actually, they did use rubber bullets and tear gas. But they weren't much use against grenades and guns.

Exactly --- they started with teargas, then teargas and rubber bullets. The reds escalated by using petrol bombs and grenades. Even after the 10th of April there was no indiscriminate firing by the military. Finally at the end there were warnings given and in areas believed to be held by the armed reds, live fire and a lot of it.

If the reds had truly been "peaceful protestors, not terrorists" as their banner proclaimed ... they would not have been using weapons and the government would not have allowed the army to use harsher measures to quell the insurrection. Remember --- the reds were clearly calling for violence and rioting and destruction from the stage for a LONG time before the reds started with the petrol bombs etc.

"peaceful protestors not terrorists" certainly is not a description that fits the reds.

[SomTumTiger]

Have people read some of the BS in these reports? Here's statement #59 by "Anonymous Witness 22"

After the 2nd Infantry Battalion breached the Red Shirt barricades, they secured the entire Ratchaprasong area. By 17:00 hours, the Army had fully secured all of the Central World buildings. Allcivilians were removed from the buildings, including numerous security guards who worked at Central World. After the civilians were removed, soldiers of the 2nd Infantry Battalion were posted outside Central World to prevent anyone from approaching or entering. The purpose of this exercise was to

permit a team of arsonists contracted by the Army to plant incendiary devices inside Central World. These devices were intentionally ignited at approximately 17:45 hours, destroying the Zen store building. The operation was planned by the Army Leadership, with the consent and approval of the Government Leadership, several weeks in advance of May 19. The purpose of the operation was to cement in the public mind the concept that the Red Shirt movement was violent and dangerous, which the Government Leadership and the Army Leadership believed would create the impression that the Army's actions in suppressing the Red Shirts were justified. In fact, the Red Shirts had nothing to do

with the fires that destroyed part of the Central World complex.

Available here http://www.thaiaccou...ness-No.-22.pdf

I'm sure there's more than a few witnesses on ThaiVisa who can testify that the reds had planted "incendiary devices" days before May 19th, along with the footage of red shirts burning and looting the place.

/edit - Here's my own favourite from that day:

This is not the first time we have heard this regarding the army and there are even pics of them getting into the building.

Produce them! Or forever hold your peace.

[Ricardo]

<snip for brevity>

A draft of the report, obtained by the Star, alleges Abhisit, along with senior government and army officials, began drawing up plans for suppressing anti-government protesters shortly after he assumed power in a military coup in 2006.

<snip for brevity>

http://www.thestar.com/news/article/930547--thai-crackdown-on-red-shirts-planned-years-ago-report-alleges

Toronto Star - January 30, 2011

I was previously unaware, that current-PM Abhisit had "assumed power in a military coup in 2006", presumably I must have imagined the PPP-led coalition-governments of former-PM Samak & former-PM Somchai during 2008, following the imaginary election of December-2007 ?

I sure hope that the rest of this report is better, or DL & Khun Thida have been robbed, when they paid whomever wrote it !

[Insight]

What a waste of time..THAKSIN IS HISTORY...Hes passed his ....SELL BY DATE....

Maybe, but the army are still there and they used live ammo to quell a political protest, not even rubber bullets or tear gas.

Actually, they did use rubber bullets and tear gas. But they weren't much use against grenades and guns.

Exactly --- they started with teargas, then teargas and rubber bullets. The reds escalated by using petrol bombs and grenades. Even after the 10th of April there was no indiscriminate firing by the military. Finally at the end there were warnings given and in areas believed to be held by the armed reds, live fire and a lot of it.

If the reds had truly been "peaceful protestors, not terrorists" as their banner proclaimed ... they would not have been using weapons and the government would not have allowed the army to use harsher measures to quell the insurrection. Remember --- the reds were clearly calling for violence and rioting and destruction from the stage for a LONG time before the reds started with the petrol bombs etc.

"peaceful protestors not terrorists" certainly is not a description that fits the reds.

Ah, but "lawyer" Bob alleges that the "men in black" have been trained by the Thai military since the coup in 2006 as an attempt to discredit the red shirts.

Those "men in black" are apparently in this clip cooperating with the said red shirts while firing a grenade at a military checkpoint.

Seriously, how much is Bob being paid to come up with this crap?

[SomTumTiger]

Seriously, how much is Bob being paid to come up with this crap?

A lot

[hanuman1]

Seriously, how much is Bob being paid to come up with this crap?

A lot

I'd say even more than that.

[frodo]

PM unworried by UDD application to International Criminal Court to investigate 'crimes against humanity' in Thailand; affirms he does not hold dual nationality as accused

The above dual nationality issue was made because of further Amsterdam assertions in regards the Red Shirts case at the ICC:

One potential obstacle the red shirts face in getting the court to consider their complaint is whether Thailand comes within the court's jurisdiction. Thailand was not a signatory to the Rome Statute, which brought the court into existence in 2002, so the court would normally not have the authority to launch an investigation into the government's activities.

But Amsterdam and Peroff argue the court still has the power to investigate Abhisit for possible crimes against humanity because he is a British citizen, born in England on Aug. 3, 1964. The court has the authority to investigate and prosecute people who are citizens of countries that are its members, which the United Kingdom is.

While Thailand is not a member of the court, it is a member of the United Nations, and the UN Security Council can ask the court to investigate the government's role in last spring's demonstrations to determine whether it amounted to criminal activity, the report says.

http://www.thestar.c...-report-alleges

By using Amsterdam's logic with Abhisit allegedly having duel citizenship, Monetenegro citizen Thaksin Shinawattra can now be investigated and tried for crimes against humanity at the ICC since Montenegro has ratified or acceded to the Rome Statute. To paraphrase Amsterdam:

"The court has the authority to investigate and prosecute people who are citizens of countries that are its members, which Montenegro is."

Montenegro

Thaksin's citizenship

(edited for link)

Edited January 31, 2011 by frodo

[philw]

Have people read some of the BS in these reports? Here's statement #59 by "Anonymous Witness 22"

After the 2nd Infantry Battalion breached the Red Shirt barricades, they secured the entire Ratchaprasong area.  By 17:00 hours, the Army had fully secured all of the Central World buildings.  Allcivilians were removed from the buildings, including numerous security guards who worked at Central World.   After the civilians were removed, soldiers of the 2nd Infantry Battalion were posted outside Central World to prevent anyone from approaching or entering.  The purpose of this exercise was to

permit a team of arsonists contracted by the Army to plant incendiary devices inside Central World.  These devices were intentionally ignited at approximately 17:45 hours, destroying the Zen store building.   The operation was planned by the Army Leadership, with the consent and approval of the Government Leadership, several weeks in advance of May 19.   The purpose of the operation was to cement in the public mind the concept that the Red Shirt movement was violent and dangerous, which the Government Leadership and the Army Leadership believed would create the impression that the Army’s actions in suppressing the Red Shirts were justified.   In fact, the Red Shirts had nothing to do

with the fires that destroyed part of the Central World complex.

Available here http://www.thaiaccountability.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Statement-of-Anonymous-Witness-No.-22.pdf

I'm sure there's more than a few witnesses on ThaiVisa who can testify that the reds had planted "incendiary devices" days before May 19th, along with the footage of red shirts burning and looting the place.

/edit - Here's my own favourite from that day:

If you are correct and it's total BS, as you say, then Amsterdam has just destroyed his professional reputation merely to further Thaksin's lies.

However, ( excuse the pun ) What if there is a kernel of truth in these statements ??

What if there is more than a kernel ??

It's either a complete fabrication or there has to be an element of truth.

Must be one or the other.

Either way, someone is caught out.

[rubl]

If you are correct and it's total BS, as you say, then Amsterdam has just destroyed his professional reputation merely to further Thaksin's lies.

However, ( excuse the pun ) What if there is a kernel of truth in these statements ??

What if there is more than a kernel ??

It's either a complete fabrication or there has to be an element of truth.

Must be one or the other.

Either way, someone is caught out.

I sincerely hope there is an element of truth in the report. Unfortunately in an accusation of the type lodged with the ICC (crimes against humanity) by Robert A. on behalf of the UDD I expect a little bit more than just an 'element of truth'. Just having the timeframe more or less correct is not sufficient in my eyes. Amazing that the report filed today is supposed to be the additional information on the preliminary report allegedly filed in October 2010.

The ICC takes about six weeks to decide on reject / take on / ask for more info. They have a need to include more than an 'element of truth' in their statements