Big Bike Volunteer Highway Police--Is There Such A Thing?

[Garry]

I think we need to get one of these stickers for you:

http://www.helmet-st...?productid=2492

Seriously though, I would wear this one:

:jap:

.

SB what does the Thai script say. Same as the above or different?

Roughly the same I think. Be interested to get a Thai to read it to see how it came out. I used Google translate. I moved the "Do Not" to the bottom, as I think that would be the proper syntax.

Ah okay gotcha, When I saw the different highlighting, I thought it may have said somehting different.

[villagefarang]

Not a very good translation. It is saying you cannot remove, as in unable to. It should say that you are forbidden to remove. This translation might get someone removing the helmet to prove you wrong.

[Garry]

Not a very good translation. It is saying you cannot remove, as in unable to. It should say that you are forbidden to remove. This translation might get someone removing the helmet to prove you wrong.

Thanks VF, could you show us a better script, that could be used for a decal / sticker?

[katabeachbum]

Not too sure what you were doing during your "years in medical school", but it must have been a long time ago.

1989-91

The idea that cutting off the flow of oxygenated blood to the brain caused irreversible damage and brain death after ten seconds was disproved in 1974 and has been accepted beyond any doubt since 1983. While restricting any blood flow to the brain can be damaging and should be avoided if at all possible current medical teaching (which has been the teaching for three decades) is that loss of blood to the brain for ten seconds usually causes unconsciousness (rather different from "totally dead, heart and brain"), but brain damage does not occur for between 4 and 5 minutes - often longer, depending on the circumstances. Depending on how soon after the accident you arrived at the accident scene this should give you the time to make a proper assessment and avoid jumping to conclusions.

agreed, and when you arrive and accident scene is surronded by spectators and local police is present, how many minutes has brain been without oxygene, 3 or 5?

seconds count

and fullfacehelmet "must" off to try to save life. at this scene

neck and spine damage is bad. Totally dead, heart and brain is worse

[villagefarang]

Not a very good translation. It is saying you cannot remove, as in unable to. It should say that you are forbidden to remove. This translation might get someone removing the helmet to prove you wrong.

Thanks VF, could you show us a better script, that could be used for a decal / sticker?

ห้าม — [V] forbid; prohibit; disallow; ban

ถอดออก or ถอด - [VT] remove

หมวกกันน็อก is the common spoken term for helmet but หมวกนิรภัย is often used in signage or written script.

That is for the bold print. I'm sure you can work out the rest of it.

[katabeachbum]

The other, whom I had previously respected as one of the better informed and more rational posters, has posted repeatedly about how being a volunteer has allowed him to freely ride the Expressway, avoid speeding fines, ride in pedestrian areas, and pay a reduced fine for wearing a helmet, while only posting once about actually doing the job most people would expect him to do.

as so often I see a lack of understanding of Thai culture here. one promille of the Thai population is Police. Police has better things to do than catching other Police speeding or doing very minor offences, if it is at all considered an offense when done by a Police

I have never been riding bike on any Expressway, but if I did it would probably be accepted for a marked HWP bike

Thai Police do not fine Police speeding, especially in a Police marked truck transporting a Police marked bike 1400km to a bike event

We ride in pedestrian areas when needed, as +50.000 Police do in LOS. Marshalling, sometimes we do a circle in wrong direction, or a one way in wrong direction

Pulled over without a helmet, I did not display my Police ID but only my Thai DL. I was fined, fine is according to law 200-1000 baht, and fine collecting officer chose 300 baht. For the cashier at his local 7-eleven he may have chosen to fine only 200 baht. The Thai way

[BigBikeBKK]

As my final thought on this thread, my initial reservations of the "Big Bike" Police Volunteers were based on my reservations about the various Police Volunteer factions in Pattaya, which vary from the ridiculously dangerous to the simply ridiculous namely from Colonel Seafood's Anti-Terrorist SWAT team to the multi-badged blackshirts patrolling Walking Street.

My criticisms, however, are based purely on what the two members of the BB volunteers have posted here and I imagine that they are probably two of the most responsible, so I hate to think what some of the other members must be like.

One quite happily demonstrates his ability at "scene assessment" by describing how he nearly rear-ended two cars that had been involved in an accident on a dual carriageway, commented that there was going to be a pile-up soon, and continued straight past 10 minutes later again driving straight past what was by then a major accident with dead and injured. Good "scene assessment", but not quite what I would have hoped for from a dedicated police volunteer and supposedly fully trained medic.

Wow, you assume a lot and you know what they say about assumptions...

I was driving Scuba to pick up his belongings from my house and then to the airport so he could catch his flight to the States. I don't think he was carrying his Police Volunteer Badge. Even if he was I would not have stopped where those cars had their little fender bender as it was a terribly dangerous spot on a poorly lit high speed dual highway just past a bridge so traffic could not see the three cars stopped in the fast lane until they crossed the bridge.

Coming over the bridge at about 100km/hr I had perhaps 100 meters to avoid those idiots.

Scuba and both agreed it was a stupid and dangerous for them to leave their cars there and it was sad but not very surprising that when we passed again less than 10 minutes later on our way to the airport that there had been a big pile up involving multiple vehicles, a truck and a scooter. Appears the people on the scooter died on the spot when they were run over by the truck. They were already covered in white sheets and the EMS guys were picking up the pieces...

The roads in this country are treacherous. The "emergency" personnel are often very poorly trained. I for one see nothing wrong with folks like Scubba and Kata and others offering to volunteer to help out. Every little bit helps IMO.

Ride On!

Tony

[transam]

As my final thought on this thread, my initial reservations of the "Big Bike" Police Volunteers were based on my reservations about the various Police Volunteer factions in Pattaya, which vary from the ridiculously dangerous to the simply ridiculous – namely from Colonel Seafood's Anti-Terrorist SWAT team to the multi-badged blackshirts patrolling Walking Street.

My criticisms, however, are based purely on what the two members of the BB volunteers have posted here – and I imagine that they are probably two of the most responsible, so I hate to think what some of the other members must be like.

One quite happily demonstrates his ability at "scene assessment" by describing how he nearly rear-ended two cars that had been involved in an accident on a dual carriageway, commented that there was going to be a pile-up soon, and continued straight past – 10 minutes later again driving straight past what was by then a major accident with dead and injured. Good "scene assessment", but not quite what I would have hoped for from a dedicated police volunteer and supposedly fully trained medic.

Wow, you assume a lot and you know what they say about assumptions...

I was driving Scuba to pick up his belongings from my house and then to the airport so he could catch his flight to the States. I don't think he was carrying his Police Volunteer Badge. Even if he was I would not have stopped where those cars had their little fender bender as it was a terribly dangerous spot on a poorly lit high speed dual highway just past a bridge so traffic could not see the three cars stopped in the fast lane until they crossed the bridge.

Coming over the bridge at about 100km/hr I had perhaps 100 meters to avoid those idiots.

Scuba and both agreed it was a stupid and dangerous for them to leave their cars there and it was sad but not very surprising that when we passed again less than 10 minutes later on our way to the airport that there had been a big pile up involving multiple vehicles, a truck and a scooter. Appears the people on the scooter died on the spot when they were run over by the truck. They were already covered in white sheets and the EMS guys were picking up the pieces...

The roads in this country are treacherous. The "emergency" personnel are often very poorly trained. I for one see nothing wrong with folks like Scubba and Kata and others offering to volunteer to help out. Every little bit helps IMO.

Ride On!

Tony

+1, only the daft would knock it.

[Lickey]

Only the daft would knock it,,,,,,,,,,,,,, from the forum mod admitting that he he rode without a helmet and got a reduced fine to two forum regulars who could see an accident about to happen and did nothing about preventing it, HYPV, really? i dont think so.....

[BigBikeBKK]

Only the daft would knock it,,,,,,,,,,,,,, from the forum mod admitting that he he rode without a helmet and got a reduced fine to two forum regulars who could see an accident about to happen and did nothing about preventing it, HYPV, really? i dont think so.....

Dude, I'm NOT a volunteer and have no interest in being one. I didn't stop because it was a ridiculously dangerous spot. Had I stopped I probably would have been involved in the fatal pile up myself and risked being blamed for causing it. TiT, you know? :jap:

Generally speaking, here in Thailand I don't stop at accidents because, sorry to say, the risks of stopping usually outweigh the moral compulsion to stop and offer assistance.

Sorry, but that's just the way it is in this country.

Ride On!

Tony

[robblok]

Only the daft would knock it,,,,,,,,,,,,,, from the forum mod admitting that he he rode without a helmet and got a reduced fine to two forum regulars who could see an accident about to happen and did nothing about preventing it, HYPV, really? i dont think so.....

Wow big problem driving without a helmet. To be honest i don't see a problem when someone drives without a helmet it is up to them they only endanger themselves. I myself never driver without a helmet because i think its dangerous but only to me. (nanny state anyone).

Have you ever tried to convince Thai to move away or do anything if you dont have authority over them. Involving yourself in an accident waiting to happen. Maybe if your language skills were great enough to tell them in perfect Thai how dangerous it was. They would then counter with the fact that they had to wait for insurance and then no cars would be moved. The accident would still happen.

You seem to have little experience in Thailand, do you actually live here.

Edited March 20, 2011 by robblok

[katabeachbum]

Only the daft would knock it,,,,,,,,,,,,,, from the forum mod admitting that he he rode without a helmet and got a reduced fine to two forum regulars who could see an accident about to happen and did nothing about preventing it, HYPV, really? i dont think so.....

Wow big problem driving without a helmet. To be honest i don't see a problem when someone drives without a helmet it is up to them they only endanger themselves. I myself never driver without a helmet because i think its dangerous but only to me. (nanny state anyone).

Have you ever tried to convince Thai to move away or do anything if you dont have authority over them. Involving yourself in an accident waiting to happen. Maybe if your language skills were great enough to tell them in perfect Thai how dangerous it was. They would then counter with the fact that they had to wait for insurance and then no cars would be moved. The accident would still happen.

You seem to have little experience in Thailand, do you actually live here.

yeah, a 10 km ride without a helmet to go buy a new one, and pulled over for it. The point is, I did not use my position as a Highwaypolice Volunteer to get away with it. I gave local Police my DL, did not display my HWP ID, and was fined. Fined amount is always up to issuing fine officer as long as within laws, minimum of 200 baht and maximum of 1.000 baht, and I was fined 300 baht.

[Garry]

Enjoy your debates gentlemen, it has been informative on the key points: unsubscribed :jap:

[Lickey]

Yes, i have very little experience of Thailand, ive been here 5 years full time and learn something new everyday, so Garry, you tell us how thais value a life, and may Buddha assist you with your answer..

[LeCharivari]

For the sake of the confused readers, can we at least both agree that if a patient clearly needs their airway cleared and ventilations, then a full face helmet must come off if the responders have been trained to do so?

Will you also admit that helmet removal is taught now in many basic first aid/CPR courses?

Although I said it was a final thought, since you're being very reasonable about it, SB, its only fair that I respond in similar vein to your specific questions.

YES I agree with you that "if a patient clearly needs their airway cleared and ventilations, then a full face helmet must come off if the responders have been trained to do so" and "that helmet removal is taught now in many basic first aid/CPR courses". IF they have been trained (and by trained I mean extensive practical training, not just the theory) then they are 100% in a position not only to remove the helmet IF necessary but, more crucially, to assess whether or not the patient needs this done. IF they can't make a correct assessment because they have either not been fully trained or they don't allow sufficient time to do so then they could be doing more harm than good.

Checking for vital signs may sound pretty simple (Is the casualty breathing? Can I feel a pulse?), and I only wish it was, but unfortunately life isn't that simple.

I have been personally involved in more than one incident where casualties apparently showed no vital signs at all and were, according to the popular definition here, "dead". As there were other "living" serious casualties simple triage dictated that others be attended to first - at least until one of the "dead" stood up and complained about a headache. I decided to first get proper medical training myself when I regained consciousness (in a separate incident) to find someone had removed my helmet (not a m/c helmet, but the principles are similar) and was about to check my oral hygiene; apparently the shock of having my newly fractured skull unceremoniously dumped on the ground may have brought me round. According to a specialist I was "lucky" that I had had two previous skull fractures, which had made my skull thicker in some places (fortunately the right ones) and weaker in others, otherwise removing my helmet and paying more attention to resuscitating me and less to my other injuries could have killed me.

I'm sorry if that experience has influenced me unduly (and genuinely sorry if I have caused offence to you where none was justified, which re-reading my posts I probably have done), but it is one aspect of first response on which I have particularly strong views.

(and yes, I have "heard of one negative situation where a member of the public was harmed doe to the action of one" ..." "ridiculously dangerous" farang volunteer" - spraying CS in the faces of two Thais who had previously only been exchanging words on the beach is only one example, although it involved one "simply ridiculous" blackshirt volunteer who was neither in uniform nor on duty; I would also think leaving unsecured automatic weapons and live ammunition and grenades in an unattended vehicle parked outside his house overnight was pretty "hard evidence" of what the "ridiculously dangerous" "Seafood" got up to)

KBB, I think we will simply have to agree to disagree on whether or not you are abusing your "position" (and your stickers). Police in most countries seldom stop other Police; it has nothing to do with Thai or any other "culture", it is simply out of mutual respect. In return most police, whether on or off duty, regular or volunteer, farang or Thai, respect and adhere to the law they are supposed to enforce. Unfortunately there are always a number who don't.

Edited March 20, 2011 by LeCharivari

[katabeachbum]

KBB, I think we will simply have to agree to disagree on whether or not you are abusing your "position" (and your stickers). Police in most countries seldom stop other Police; it has nothing to do with Thai or any other "culture", it is simply out of mutual respect. In return most police, whether on or off duty, regular or volunteer, farang or Thai, respect and adhere to the law they are supposed to enforce. Unfortunately there are always a number who don't.

have spendt some time in several non urban areas of Thailand. Never seen a Police wearing helmet in these areas. And most drunk drive/ride every night. At weddings or funerals with no firecrackers, a Police officers gun is usually used to make noise. Or mine, before I joined HWP

When I first moved to Phuket 8 years ago, it was similar here. Now they use helmet when on duty. So do I.

[LeCharivari]

So because others think and act as if they are above the law and break it when it suits them you think that justifies your doing the same?

Sorry, but I take a rather more old-fashioned view.

Absum.