Distrust Of Neighbours Deeply Rooted In Thais

[webfact]

Distrust of neighbours deeply rooted in Thais

By PRAVIT ROJANAPHRUK

THE NATION

Part of the distrust among Thais and Cambodians, especially in relation to the current border conflict, is rooted in Thailand's history textbooks, which are nationalistic, Thai-centric, and often depict people from the neighbouring country as untrustworthy, a top historian has warned.

It would take years to change these texts and facilitate a better understanding between Thailand and its neighbours, said Charnvit Kasetsiri, a historian and former rector of Thammasat University.

"The problem with the Education Ministry's textbooks is that, as long as we do not change the discourse about [Thailand] losing its territory [to colonial powers] then Thais will not see their neighbours as equal," Charnvit said.

The nationalistic history books view Thailand, formerly known as Siam, as an expansionist power. This dated from the 1930s and leaders like Field Marshal Pibulsongkram, plus influential historians like Luang Wijitvathakarn. Not much had changed today in terms of content and the underlying discourse of these history textbooks.

"The Education Ministry is one of the most conservative, so it is difficult to get these textbooks changed. It is controlled by the bureaucratic way of thinking, not the democratic way. It's built in, and very difficult to change," he said.

Charnvit said the yellow-shirt People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) was making matters worse by exploiting a nationalist ethos and calling for Abhisit Vejjajiva's government to take a hard stance against Cambodia.

He believed the PAD was also out on the streets to set the stage for another military coup.

"If the PAD plays the election game, its New Politics Party may get nothing because they do not seem to have any electoral base in Bangkok or in the provinces. So, their way [of gaining power] is to not have an election, but instead support something that is referred to as a 'national government' brought about by a military coup," he commented.

"I think what we're seeing is a quarrel between the forces that used to be together and employed nationalistic ethos to oppose the governments of Thaksin Shinwatra, Samak [sundaravej] and Somchai [Wongsawat]," he said, referring to the former alliance between the PAD and the ruling Democrat Party.

"[The PAD] are demanding the repayment of a debt of gratitude [from the ruling party] and it's also about anger and revenge."

Given the tensions between Thailand and Cambodia, as well as the sensitivity and complexity of the issue, Charnvit, who was attacked by the PAD for being a "paid lackey" of the Foreign Ministry, said the public should be calm and unemotional or else war could break out.

"Will we choose emotion and war over mindfulness and peace?" he asked.

-- The Nation 2011-02-03

[virtualtraveller]

well put!

[animatic]

The schools teach that anyone not hewing to the idealized 'being Thai' is bad.

That of course includes their neighbors, the whole point of an 'Us vs Them' mind set inculcation is to create 'one people apart from their neighbors', and thus 'a single national identity'. Much harder to do when you and your neighbors are all your cousins, and you have been trading together for centuries.

And more likely to be a strong component when a nation is very young, Thailand is barely in it's 80s...

But this 'us vs them' attitude we are good if you are not us you are sub-standard and open for abuse, also includes hill tribes, and all foreigners such as most members of TVF. Most or at least many Thais hide this having learned that it is not always considered nice, but get them drunk and they fall back to their most base instincts and trains. Suddenly being non-thai can become a threatening experience. Farang Baa... has deep roots.

Edited February 3, 2011 by animatic

[wjmark]

I looked at this topic thinking that it was going to be about the common distrust and jealousy between Thais at the local 'neighborhood' level.

Both are interesting topics, and perhaps somehow related...

[dumpling]

The schools teach that anyone not hewing to the idealized 'being Thai' is bad.

That of course includes their neighbors, the whole point of an 'Us vs Them' mind set inculcation is to create 'one people apart from their neighbors', and thus 'a single national identity'. Much harder to do when you and your neighbors are all your cousins, and you have been trading together for centuries.

And more likely to be a strong component when a nation is very young, Thailand is barely in it's 80s...

But this 'us vs them' attitude we are good if you are not us you are sub-standard and open for abuse, also includes hill tribes, and all foreigners such as most members of TVF. Most or at least many Thais hide this having learned that it is not always considered nice, but get them drunk and they fall back to their most base instincts and trains. Suddenly being non-thai can become a threatening experience. Farang Baa... has deep roots.

Anyone who as been here for a while knows that the Thai smile hides much mistrust.Poor education and the belief in stereotypes is hard to break ,I have lost count of the number times I have done something that does not fit the western stereotype and heard "but your farang " said with a bemused face.

[baboon]

It is not exactly unusual for a country to dislike/mistrust it`s neighbours.Look at England and France,go to Malaysia and mention the Indonesians.Korea and Japan.....

[AZBill]

An expansionist power??? You're kidding right? Thailand is not a power of any kind in the view of the world. It's military spends more time using whatever power it has internally to preserve corruption and conducting coupes against elected governments they don't like. As for the pissing match with Cambodia, it's Lilliput vs. Blefusca! Petty petty petty!

[CMX]

To see The Nation point a finger at a sore point is refreshing. For them to mention both the textbook teachings and education ministry is startling.

It reveals as well how political parties here (as well as elsewhere) play on nationalistic strings to get elected, if they can.

In the land of my birth, "I am more American than you are..." is a serious political charge, not to be taken lightly. If, in the more recent Bush/wars era, if politicians did not wear an American flag pin, they were not patriotic. Ask Americans if they are the greatest nation, or the greatest nation ever, and myopia rules. French citizenry will not speak expansively of their colonial history with regard to avarice, and British colonialism was mostly beneficial :lol:to those controlled. The primitive aspect of Russian chauvinism is transparent as well.

Chauvinism lives, which is one thing when unifying a nation to its laws and customs, but it has always served leaders who want wars.

Edited February 3, 2011 by CMX

[Madivad]

I looked at this topic thinking that it was going to be about the common distrust and jealousy between Thais at the local 'neighborhood' level.

Me too!

Both are interesting topics, and perhaps somehow related...

Again, me too! lol

[Madivad]

An expansionist power??? You're kidding right?

I had a bit of a sncker as I read that part too? WtH is meant by that? Just because Thailand hasn't been invaded by westerners before (present day tourism and expats aside), doesn't make them a fighting force to be reckoned with.

I once mentioned to the old man Thailand history with no western invasion... His (naive) reply was... "why would they?" I didn't bother going any further ;-)

[surayu]

At a "local" and only local stage, i can see from where it's all coming from.....

[asiawatcher]

At least it digresses from the hatred towards the Burmese for the time being! Historically it has always been Thailand against its border countries. Does not seem to happen in Europe too much but here - face and all that - who knows?

[cup-O-coffee]

Thai-Cambodian Relations: Nationalism, Sovereignty and 'Lost Territories'

Pavin Chachavalpongpun

25 Jan 2011

"Lao nationalists have lamented the loss of Isan (northeast region) to Thailand. Khmer national memory is haunted by the twin devouring demons of Vietnam and Thailand. Thailand, too, lost its own supposed territories to the British and the French in the wake of colonialism. Along the way, new maps were produced to justify the Thai claim of lost territories. The loss of territories has been consistently backdated as though Siam, the former name of Thailand, had originally been a bounded kingdom with a precise territorially based sovereignty. This remade history has been incorporated into the Thai education curriculum and is powerfully ingrained in the minds of every Thai.

The myth of lost territories is therefore immensely powerful and is alive and well among many Thais. False memories and the rise of paranoid nationalistic anxiety have convinced Thai nationalists that the country is poised to lose its sovereignty over the surrounding areas because of Cambodia's greed and the indecisive action of the Abhisit government."

Thursday, 2 October, 2008

Dangerous Racist Nationalism

"Nationalism is a poison.

It might not have always been so as nations across Southeast Asia fought off the yoke of colonial oppression by harnessing the power of nationalism.

But it is a poison now that has reached such critical mass in Thailand that issues like the border conflict over Phra Vihear with Cambodia and the festering southern insurgency are perpetuated by Thai nationalism.

Essentially, close minded nationalists have prevented rational discourse on what Thailand is and who it represents to such an extent that the ability of the country to deal with conflict - like Phreah Vihear and the southern Insurgency - in a rational way is severely challenged.

So it is refreshing to see some people speaking out against the vile nationalist non-sense that Thai students are force-fed at their schools.

Hence their plan to make children across the country parrot more of what they define as national history, what they equate as patriotism, which boils down to a dangerous racist nationalism in a conflict-ridden society where respect for cultural plurality remains indispensible for peace."

- - - - - - -

"The spiralling southern violence cannot make them see that the crux of the problem lies in their version of nationalism, which states that only the dominant Buddhist Thais own the country. Nor can they see that if they insist on pushing this down the throats of the ethnic Malay Muslims, peace will remain out of reach."

- - - - - - -

"...ultra-nationalism has still succeeded in seeping in to poison kids' minds. My daughter, for one, truly believes that Thailand once owned parts of our neighbouring countries, making us the greatest in this region.

"Because the textbooks say so."

Like most Thais, she feels Burma is fierce and heartless, Cambodia cannot be trusted and Laos is inferior to Thailand - because the history textbooks teach her so. And since national history only has room for ethnic Buddhists, she considers it an alien notion that other ethnic minorities must have equal rights to the dominant ethnic Thais in a democratic society.""

I think the term "Dangerous, racist nationalists" is a fitting tribute to a country that sees its borders from a historical standpoint.

The textbooks that children are currently being taught from would, in my opinion, border upon condoning racism in the minds of the young and impressionable, while at the same time "killing questioning minds"?

Ah Thailand. What will other countries write about you in 100 years? Such a sad waste on developing minds!

[Orac]

At least it digresses from the hatred towards the Burmese for the time being! Historically it has always been Thailand against its border countries. Does not seem to happen in Europe too much but here - face and all that - who knows?

You must be kidding - we Europeans are experts at killing each other. Over the last 100 years we have had 2 world wars, a cold war and a little scuffle in the Balkans just to mention the noteworthy ones. One of the aims of the EU was to stop us killing each other. Sadly I do not think the problem is just a Thai one but one that affects most recognisable groups be they on nationalistic, religious or ethhic grounds.

[Microwave]

Nationalism is another word for hatred. Unfortunately most of the world's citizens are not so enlightened.

[Beetlejuice]

At least it digresses from the hatred towards the Burmese for the time being! Historically it has always been Thailand against its border countries. Does not seem to happen in Europe too much but here - face and all that - who knows?

You must be kidding - we Europeans are experts at killing each other. Over the last 100 years we have had 2 world wars, a cold war and a little scuffle in the Balkans just to mention the noteworthy ones. One of the aims of the EU was to stop us killing each other. Sadly I do not think the problem is just a Thai one but one that affects most recognisable groups be they on nationalistic, religious or ethhic grounds.

There is no racism, bigotry and nationalism quite like western racism, bigotry and nationalism.

Just take a peek back at European history, America, Europe and the United Kingdom.

However bias many may feel Thailand is against foreigners, these are trivial compared to western standard right wing extremism.

For example, in Britain, parties such as the British National party, America, the KKK, does anyone know of any fanatical equivalent in Thailand?

Racism and bias has always been the white man’s disease. This all came to a head during WW2 that in actuality was a tribal war between the white races when countless millions died, not for who they were but for what they were.

Even in these times there are racist farangs living in Thailand that makes the views of so called Thai nationalists appear feeble in comparison.

Very easy to find them. Just create a thread on Thai visa about religion, race, immigration or politics, sit back and see what crawls out of the woodwork.

I think before anyone begins discussing Thai chauvinism, we should first look into our own points of view, history and inherited prejudices.

[animatic]

Nationalism is another word for hatred. Unfortunately most of the world's citizens are not so enlightened.

Spot on.

[whybother]

<snip>

Racism and bias has always been the white man's disease.

<snip>

Yes, there's no racism or bias in the middle African countries or China, is there?

[jonclark]

<snip>

Racism and bias has always been the white man's disease.

<snip>

That's a bit of a racist thing to say isn't it.

Personally I am a firm believer that people aren't born racists, but are 'taught' to be racists. And therein lies the problem with many of the Thai history texts used in schools. The discourse centers on preserving 'thainess' by belittling non thainess. Some of the least 'racist;' Thais i've met are the ones who dropped out of school at the end of P6 / M3 to go and work on the farm, which says a lot about the nature of education.

Edited February 3, 2011 by jonclark

[RedNIvar]

<snip>

Racism and bias has always been the white man's disease.

<snip>

Yes, there's no racism or bias in the middle African countries or China, is there?

No there is not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_Asia

[animatic]

<snip>

Racism and bias has always been the white man's disease.

<snip>

Yes, there's no racism or bias in the middle African countries or China, is there?

Tell that to the Japanese and Chinese, or Tutsi and Hutus.

Or for that matter assorted island nations in most corners of the world.

Edited February 3, 2011 by animatic

[whybother]

<snip>

Racism and bias has always been the white man's disease.

<snip>

Yes, there's no racism or bias in the middle African countries or China, is there?

Tell that to the Japanese and Chinese, or Tutsi and Hutus.

Or for that matter assorted island nations in most corners of the world.

My point exactly.

[tim armstrong]

What a breath of fresh air. Its good to hear some commonsense from an academic for a change. He is so right - education is the key, and I would start with the women of Thailand. They do most of the work, but still accept their place as second class citizens. Why? - 'its custom'??

[ThiagoBras]

What a breath of fresh air. Its good to hear some commonsense from an academic for a change.

Absolutely!

[bangon04]

What a breath of fresh air. Its good to hear some commonsense from an academic for a change. He is so right - education is the key, and I would start with the women of Thailand. They do most of the work, but still accept their place as second class citizens. Why? - 'its custom'??

Can anyone recommend a history textbook written in Thai which gives a realistic view of Thailand's less than glorious history and relations with its neighbours? Or would such a work be banned anyway in Thailand?

[pogal]

This maybe true but also a BIG part of mistrust of neighbors and even family is from PURE EXPERIENCE!

Thai families ripping each other off, stealing wives or girlfriends, money gold whatever they can.

In my 10 years I have heard so many stories of family members doing horrid things to each other. At the extreme end, the man who killed his whole family for money. A respectable Ajarn at a local university I know helped her brother borrow money to buy a taxi. She has never seen her brother again and is left with the bill for an invisible car. My girlfriend has a business and can't find (trust) anyone to work with her. Everyone I talk to feels the same way including myself. I have only a handful of Thai friends I would really trust with my life out of the hundreds I know this is a very small percentage.

Stories abound of family and friends doing bad deeds to each other on a daily basis, its not surprising that Thais don't trust one another. I think it has little to do with history and more to do with morals and economics.

Sad.