Isaan Village Funeral

[Monkey Fish]

. . . and card playing started. Thing was, nobody new who the card set up guy was. Seems he goes to the funerals to relieve the drunk poor of their cash.

Same thing at all of the events I witnessed. In my experience, the rules of Thai gambling are very fluid and there's no profit in playing unless you're making the rules. Of course, I was offended by the notion of the "out-of-towners" taking money away from people ("my" people) with so little, but it's their life/culture, so I just tried to ignore it along with everything else that drives me insane when we're out there.

One night when things had quieted down a bit and the gambling happened to be right in front of where I was sitting/drinking (I don't hate everything in Isaan), I couldn't help but notice that the gamblers were working in a team of three and blatantly cheating. They had one game of "guess the dice" and one game of cards going. Any body could see that the dice-guy had his thumbs inside the upside-down bowl and was manipulating them. The cards-guy had extra cards and would turn away from the other players to switch cards out. I stood up and in my best Thai (which probably nobody understood), said that we didn't like cheats and that it was time for them to go. For one reason or another, they went. The family sat in stunned silence for a while and then made their way off to bed.

I was later informed that everybody knows they are cheats, but still think it's fun. And having fun is a significant part of the merit-making. Which makes me the A-hole that doesn't want granny to go to heaven. Fortunately, they were as tolerant of me as they were of the cheaters, just a couple more of the thousand little cuts that life has dealt them.

[transam]

. . . and card playing started. Thing was, nobody new who the card set up guy was. Seems he goes to the funerals to relieve the drunk poor of their cash.

Same thing at all of the events I witnessed. In my experience, the rules of Thai gambling are very fluid and there's no profit in playing unless you're making the rules. Of course, I was offended by the notion of the "out-of-towners" taking money away from people ("my" people) with so little, but it's their life/culture, so I just tried to ignore it along with everything else that drives me insane when we're out there.

One night when things had quieted down a bit and the gambling happened to be right in front of where I was sitting/drinking (I don't hate everything in Isaan), I couldn't help but notice that the gamblers were working in a team of three and blatantly cheating. They had one game of "guess the dice" and one game of cards going. Any body could see that the dice-guy had his thumbs inside the upside-down bowl and was manipulating them. The cards-guy had extra cards and would turn away from the other players to switch cards out. I stood up and in my best Thai (which probably nobody understood), said that we didn't like cheats and that it was time for them to go. For one reason or another, they went. The family sat in stunned silence for a while and then made their way off to bed.

I was later informed that everybody knows they are cheats, but still think it's fun. And having fun is a significant part of the merit-making. Which makes me the A-hole that doesn't want granny to go to heaven. Fortunately, they were as tolerant of me as they were of the cheaters, just a couple more of the thousand little cuts that life has dealt them.

Sounds like the same team at my doo. But amazing that being ripped off is OK, bit like the people or friends loan money and know they will have trouble getting it back, and they do it again and again to the same people. One of the things l don't understand about the '' culture '' up here

[Issangeorge]

When my mother-in-law died the funeral was a three day event, she was insured for 100,000 baht, I don't know what the funeral cost, but I put up 20,000 baht to start with and the 100,000 insurance took care of the rest. The merit making party cost about 200,000 baht with a concert and all.

[cardholder]

When my mother-in-law died the funeral was a three day event, she was insured for 100,000 baht, I don't know what the funeral cost, but I put up 20,000 baht to start with and the 100,000 insurance took care of the rest. The merit making party cost about 200,000 baht with a concert and all.

I missed the economics of that one.

120k went in and 200k went out. Did the 'out' include funereal costs and how much came in from the pink envelopes ?

[Thaddeus]

bit like the people or friends loan money and know they will have trouble getting it back, and they do it again and again to the same people. One of the things l don't understand about the '' culture '' up here

For years the attitude in Thailand has always been, those that have 'give' and those that haven't 'take' ...... which is fine when the positions are constantly shifting, but not so good if you are the only one that always 'has'

[cardholder]

bit like the people or friends loan money and know they will have trouble getting it back, and they do it again and again to the same people. One of the things l don't understand about the '' culture '' up here

For years the attitude in Thailand has always been, those that have 'give' and those that haven't 'take' ...... which is fine when the positions are constantly shifting, but not so good if you are the only one that always 'has'

I would imagine that you could very quickly become one of the "have nots".

[barryofthailand]

I think a normal three day funeral at a Wat would not cost more than 20,000 Baht. The WATS have a price list which is posted in Thai. That's excluding any parties and drinking at the house. Normally prayers are given two times a day once in the morning, and once in the evening.

Barry

[prakhonchai nick]

How many people die unnecessarily, because they don't have the money for medical treatment (now free in local government hospitals) or in a worst case scenario don't have the money to pay for a motorbike taxi to and from the hospital. The Thais are notorious for doing nothing for free! Yet once dead it is OK to spend 100,000bt up including concerts (often with scantily clad girls) likhae etc.

OBSCENE!!!

[SGD]

From my experience you should only make a contribution! Look out for freeloaders / thieves as this is seen as an opportunity to make some cash!

A few years ago (well many actually, time flies) the lovely old grandmother of my wife passed away at around 90 years of age. She was a lovely old lady and had a very tough life, from being a comfort girl for the Japanese in WW2 to being fleeced of everything she owned by a member of her own family (daughter) and ended up living with my wifes family. My wife is 1 of 6 daughters and also has 2 brothers. The 4 eldest girls decided to each contribute 15,000 Baht for the costs of the funeral etc. 2 of the girls were still at school or uni. The 2 brothers contributed zero, however they were the ones collecting the envelopes during the 4 or 5 days of the funeral etc. After the event was over miraculously no money was returned to the sisters from the contributions even though it had been a very busy time with lots of attendees!

In the usual Thai way the girls just accepted this, groomed at a young age to be shafted by their brothers, even the MIL & FIL said nothing. However a few days later the eldest brother had the nerve / stupidity to demand some extra cash from the sisters to cover costs etc. When he came to visit us, I politely got my wife to ask him to leave before I did him some very serious damage!

This story is obviously not repeated in every case but where Thai families, money and Farangs are involved it is very common.

Tas

This is the critical issue. I wouldn't give the buggers anything for a massive bender at my expense or extended because they think I am daft enough to pay. Better they know that straight away and no amount of Thai crap will change my mind. There are costs associated with death but I'll stand behind the males of the family and see what they put in before I pony up. Then the issue of the envelopes needs to be sorted out well in advance or, as you say, the layabout males will simply shaft everyone on that one as well.

[Nevo]

I've been to 3 family funerals in rural Issan. I contributed 10k to each. I understand that every member of the family contributed something. Most of the logistics of these funerals are handled through the village fund or local amphur free services. These include the wood for the pyre and the truck to transport the coffin to the local wat ( absolutely nobody will carry a dead body in their own truck due to superstition). The refrigerated coffin (for keeping the body at home or in the wat)is owned by the local wat and is free. So are the marquees, cooking pots, ice boxes, plates, spoons. forks and cups. I believe the cost for each was between 25 - 30k.

These were all typical village rice farmer funerals. The gambling gang will descend immediately. They are not there for any other reason than playing cards and are suffered without complaint. The wake lasts for 3 days and people party day and night. Lao Kaow is the preferred drink along with coke and beer. These are not expensive events. I could, I'm sure, have kept forking out money constantly but I didn't offer any more than my original contribution. I find the best way to attend these events is to keep to the fringes, find a quiet spot,hide a case of beer and sit back and observe. Just as in the rest of the world, funerals here can bring the worst out in people. Seen lots of fights between siblings etc. I just go for a lie down if trouble starts.

[tassini]

From my experience you should only make a contribution! Look out for freeloaders / thieves as this is seen as an opportunity to make some cash!

A few years ago (well many actually, time flies) the lovely old grandmother of my wife passed away at around 90 years of age. She was a lovely old lady and had a very tough life, from being a comfort girl for the Japanese in WW2 to being fleeced of everything she owned by a member of her own family (daughter) and ended up living with my wifes family. My wife is 1 of 6 daughters and also has 2 brothers. The 4 eldest girls decided to each contribute 15,000 Baht for the costs of the funeral etc. 2 of the girls were still at school or uni. The 2 brothers contributed zero, however they were the ones collecting the envelopes during the 4 or 5 days of the funeral etc. After the event was over miraculously no money was returned to the sisters from the contributions even though it had been a very busy time with lots of attendees!

In the usual Thai way the girls just accepted this, groomed at a young age to be shafted by their brothers, even the MIL & FIL said nothing. However a few days later the eldest brother had the nerve / stupidity to demand some extra cash from the sisters to cover costs etc. When he came to visit us, I politely got my wife to ask him to leave before I did him some very serious damage!

This story is obviously not repeated in every case but where Thai families, money and Farangs are involved it is very common.

Tas

This is the critical issue. I wouldn't give the buggers anything for a massive bender at my expense or extended because they think I am daft enough to pay. Better they know that straight away and no amount of Thai crap will change my mind. There are costs associated with death but I'll stand behind the males of the family and see what they put in before I pony up. Then the issue of the envelopes needs to be sorted out well in advance or, as you say, the layabout males will simply shaft everyone on that one as well.

For a long time now we have not given anything to the family and that includes MIL & FIL. Unfortunately when helping MIL / FIL they tend to distribute it down the line. You cannot help those who are unwilling to help themselves. The Farang welfare system (just think how many Thai families live on this concept) ceased long ago in our home. Luckily my wife lived with me in the UK for many years and realises whatever we have has been worked for. We have our own 3 children to bring up and provide for. I have been with my wife for almost 15 years and in that time I have never known her brothers to contribute to anything. Just cause trouble and then expect others (sisters) to help / bail them out. Now the whole process is about to begin again with another generation as nieces / nephews are now 18-20 years old. Nowadays I just sit back and smile at their stupidity.

I always compare to the antics of my wifes brothers, nieces, nephews to my own formative years. If I did some of the things I have witnessed them do my Old Man would of buried me! Here they think it is your duty to bail them out!

Over the last couple of years I have put into writing some of the more amazing stunts they have pulled / tried and one day maybe late into my life I would like to publish them................trouble is unless you have lived in Thailand you would think they were all BS stories.

Tas

[exbelg]

excuse my 2 cents, but issaan people making 2k per month, how can or could anyone afford those expensive merits and free for all parties that cost 50k+ and much more up ?

[gotlost]

excuse my 2 cents, but issaan people making 2k per month, how can or could anyone afford those expensive merits and free for all parties that cost 50k+ and much more up ?

The high so deep pocket of the farang.

Edited February 13, 2011 by gotlost

[rgs2001uk]

excuse my 2 cents, but issaan people making 2k per month, how can or could anyone afford those expensive merits and free for all parties that cost 50k+ and much more up ?

Moneylenders, better to lose money than lose face.

In my experience there is a difference between the myths that are passed off as Thai customs when a farang is involved, and the reality of what actually takes place when the locals have to foot the bill themselves.

Not all these people are poor, there are some very rich ones out there, dont be fooled by the way they dress, act and speak.

There is usually an insurance policy involved as well, but if the farang is doesnt ask the relevant questions concerning the existence of a prakan chewit some of the locals may not be forthcoming with the information.

[transam]

From my experience you should only make a contribution! Look out for freeloaders / thieves as this is seen as an opportunity to make some cash!

A few years ago (well many actually, time flies) the lovely old grandmother of my wife passed away at around 90 years of age. She was a lovely old lady and had a very tough life, from being a comfort girl for the Japanese in WW2 to being fleeced of everything she owned by a member of her own family (daughter) and ended up living with my wifes family. My wife is 1 of 6 daughters and also has 2 brothers. The 4 eldest girls decided to each contribute 15,000 Baht for the costs of the funeral etc. 2 of the girls were still at school or uni. The 2 brothers contributed zero, however they were the ones collecting the envelopes during the 4 or 5 days of the funeral etc. After the event was over miraculously no money was returned to the sisters from the contributions even though it had been a very busy time with lots of attendees!

In the usual Thai way the girls just accepted this, groomed at a young age to be shafted by their brothers, even the MIL & FIL said nothing. However a few days later the eldest brother had the nerve / stupidity to demand some extra cash from the sisters to cover costs etc. When he came to visit us, I politely got my wife to ask him to leave before I did him some very serious damage!

This story is obviously not repeated in every case but where Thai families, money and Farangs are involved it is very common.

Tas

This is the critical issue. I wouldn't give the buggers anything for a massive bender at my expense or extended because they think I am daft enough to pay. Better they know that straight away and no amount of Thai crap will change my mind. There are costs associated with death but I'll stand behind the males of the family and see what they put in before I pony up. Then the issue of the envelopes needs to be sorted out well in advance or, as you say, the layabout males will simply shaft everyone on that one as well.

For a long time now we have not given anything to the family and that includes MIL & FIL. Unfortunately when helping MIL / FIL they tend to distribute it down the line. You cannot help those who are unwilling to help themselves. The Farang welfare system (just think how many Thai families live on this concept) ceased long ago in our home. Luckily my wife lived with me in the UK for many years and realises whatever we have has been worked for. We have our own 3 children to bring up and provide for. I have been with my wife for almost 15 years and in that time I have never known her brothers to contribute to anything. Just cause trouble and then expect others (sisters) to help / bail them out. Now the whole process is about to begin again with another generation as nieces / nephews are now 18-20 years old. Nowadays I just sit back and smile at their stupidity.

I always compare to the antics of my wifes brothers, nieces, nephews to my own formative years. If I did some of the things I have witnessed them do my Old Man would of buried me! Here they think it is your duty to bail them out!

Over the last couple of years I have put into writing some of the more amazing stunts they have pulled / tried and one day maybe late into my life I would like to publish them................trouble is unless you have lived in Thailand you would think they were all BS stories.

Tas

Looks like there are quite a few of us that have dealt with the '' Thai lay about, take care of me syndrome '' that really pisses me off.

My friend built a house with mini-mart so ma & pa can work in it and have a living, his sister-in- laws son is clearing the shelves and robbing the till, with ma & pa knowledge, to feed his dust snorting.

My wife's 36 yr old brother, wife and kids live with the MIL up country. We took up a nice bike for the old lady as hers was rusting away. Had a tip off phone call from the brothers wife that he was going to sell the bike ( his mums bike ) for beer money, so we went back up and brought it back, in fact every mod con we have given them he has sold.

I have so many stories l could right a book too.

[sunanta]

Just went threw this. With no farang present can be done for 20K

sent my wife back to one of those scammer came home parties......she told me to buy a cow cause her village[sakon nakkon] dont eat pork...HOW FUKIN STUPID DO THEY THINK WE ARE?????????when im not lookin, there eating bugs an critters....should do what they do..say grandma just fell down the stairs,i gotta go, would u take up a collection for her???? soon as u go the party will drop down to 3 days....SURE

[TheWalkingMan]

excuse my 2 cents, but issaan people making 2k per month, how can or could anyone afford those expensive merits and free for all parties that cost 50k+ and much more up ?

Yep. Having a ceremony worth a year or two's income seems to be very popular with certain segments of the population. I will never understand that. I guess having face is so important for some.

TheWalkingMan

[MJP]

Just went threw this. With no farang present can be done for 20K

sent my wife back to one of those scammer came home parties......she told me to buy a cow cause her village[sakon nakkon] dont eat pork...HOW FUKIN STUPID DO THEY THINK WE ARE?????????when im not lookin, there eating bugs an critters....should do what they do..say grandma just fell down the stairs,i gotta go, would u take up a collection for her???? soon as u go the party will drop down to 3 days....SURE

My sincere advice is walk away. It will only get worse. It's all about money, doesn't matter if you look like George Clooney, it's still all about money and it's relentless.

That is all.

[sinbin]

excuse my 2 cents, but issaan people making 2k per month, how can or could anyone afford those expensive merits and free for all parties that cost 50k+ and much more up ?

2K per month is too low. It works out at just under 67 Baht per day. When the tapioca is being harvested they can make 400 Baht per day.

[digibum]

excuse my 2 cents, but issaan people making 2k per month, how can or could anyone afford those expensive merits and free for all parties that cost 50k+ and much more up ?

Moneylenders, better to lose money than lose face.

In my experience there is a difference between the myths that are passed off as Thai customs when a farang is involved, and the reality of what actually takes place when the locals have to foot the bill themselves.

Not all these people are poor, there are some very rich ones out there, dont be fooled by the way they dress, act and speak.

There is usually an insurance policy involved as well, but if the farang is doesnt ask the relevant questions concerning the existence of a prakan chewit some of the locals may not be forthcoming with the information.

That's one of my biggest pet peeves and one that I quickly corrected my gf of early in our relationship. The whole, it's Thai culture BS doesn't float much anymore because she knows I know a lot of Thais (both village girls and Bangkok hi-so's) and will question anything that seems strange.

The tipping point for me was her sister's wedding out in the village. It was my first Thai wedding and I asked how much I should present to the bride and groom (not in the envelope but in front of everyone). She said 1000 baht was normal. So I gave the gf 1000 to give and I gave a thousand myself and then I sat back and proceeded to watch 20 or 30 relatives give 100 - 300 baht each. When we were alone I asked her why we gave 1000 and everybody else gave only a few hundred. She explained that it was because I was a farang and people expected more from a farang.

I gave her a bit of a tongue lashing about that and told her that in my culture giving way more than everybody else is seen as insulting to those who cannot give as much. If we want to give more it is not done in public. It's done in private so not to embarrass those who can't give as much. I didn't have a problem with giving the money (it's only 2000 baht, I don't think I ever bought a wedding gift less than $200 or $300 back home) but I did have a problem with being seen as the farang fool in the village. I think a lot of it is helping them understand the cultures. I told her that I felt like I lost face by making other people lose face because they couldn't give as much. There wasn't really much she could argue once you put it into "face" terms.

I gotta give her a lot of credit though because she got it. The longer we've been together the more she detests her own family for constantly having their hand out.

Her parents are no longer around so her only real family relationship back in the village is her grandmother. She's told me several times that once her grandmother passes away she doesn't want anything to do with the rest of the family. I don't say anything but I have seen several times where she's needed help (not financial but maybe a ride or something simple) and aunt's uncles, cousons, nobody in her family can be bothered. Yet they come around every month always needing a couple hundred baht here and there for the emergency du jour.

It's funny because I've laid into the relatives a few times and they know they're taking the piss. Like my gf's cousin, she always seems to be short on the rent or needs a few hundred baht here and there. Her mother (my gf's aunt) seems to think it's my gf's job to cover her shortfalls. So I took it to her one night. I don't normally speak Thai around her family because I don't want them to know how much Thai I know but I told her in Thai that her daughter is only 2 years younger than my gf and that she should quit expecting her to take care of her children. If she can't take care of her own children than she's a bad mother.

Another time I agreed to pay for 100% of the cost of the petrol to drive back to the village for Songkran but that wasn't enough and auntie tried to stick me with double the price. I had been watching all of the fuel stops and knew exactly how much gas had been put in the car and barked at her in Thai that I knew how much the petrol costs and that she should quit being so greedy.

I know for a lot of Thais this would be embarrassing and I guess it is, to a degree, for my gf but she always gives me a big hug afterwards for saying what she wanted to say but can't because of Thai culture. And I love it because 99% of the time I just sit back and pretend to be the retarded farang who doesn't understand what's going on but when I step in my words are very cutting and since I'm closer to the auntie and uncle age than my gf it's more of an equal playing field in terms of which way respect should be flowing.

I would love to give her grandmother the sendoff that she deserves when that time comes (she's always treated me respectfully and lovingly). At the same time I know the freeloaders will be coming out of the woodwork when it happens so I'm split on how much I should give. I also know my gf will be in the worst possible emotional state to deal with that kind of thing. Even though grandma has 11 children they all know my gf was closest to her (yes, my gf is the only family member who makes enough to have enough left over to send grandma money even though she lives paycheck to paycheck and her aunties and uncles have houses and cars) and will try to get her to pony up most of the money (despite them all getting a nice inheritance). It pisses me off because I already know that they're all going to claim poverty when she passes away and stick my gf with the entire cost of funeral. And of course all the aunties, uncles, cousins, etc will want to have the most spectacular of funerals for her despite the fact they'll claim they can't even afford gas to drive from Bangkok back up to the village (which they'll, of course, see if she can't pay for them).

[Bingo66]

GF say her gran's was 100k and 3 days, I contributed 3-4k inc bus trip, she says if her gran wasn't in diff Moo Baan it woulda been cheaper.

She says insurance was 80k and everyone contributed, no booze, if you wanted it you had it buy it your self. She's thai/khmer and from buriram, so she shouldn't be paying hardly anything but an envelope ....

People in this thread paying 15k, 20k, 30k. 50k, up, just seem like typical farang monkeys. Noone should ask for money unless theres no insurence, only you should giveing is the envelope, all you do is feeding greedy pockets and giving them a free piss up.

Edited May 16, 2011 by Bingo66

[englishinsiam]

Geez some of these stories I am so lucky to be in my wifes family.

Everything is split equally between us all. The only person who doesn't contribute so much is one of her sisters because she has a terminal illness but she does all she can around the home. But otherwise it's brothers and sisters all pulling together for Ma and pa.

And I know when they go which I hope will be a long way off yet that sense of all sharing will be the same. My wife and I won't be expected to cover loads more however I'd have no hesitation in seeing Ma and pa off in dignity if the rest of the family couldn't cough up. However I know they would find it somehow.

[Patronus]

Geez some of these stories I am so lucky to be in my wifes family.

I think you live in a different world to many posters on here.

[englishinsiam]

I think you live in a different world to many posters on here.

Judging from so many posts I think I do and am bloody glad I do.

[fatfather]

Just went threw this. With no farang present can be done for 20K

Sorry, the wife says "bullsh@t mak mak". cannot be done for 20K. Five days will run about 100,000 or so, but cost is offset by envelopes given by guests and the probable Cremation Insurance fund (usually about 10,000 in fund) kept by village for this purpose and usually contributed to by family. We put in 1 baht/day for wife's aunt (30 baht/month), max they will pay is 10,000. Also, as rice farmer in Issan he probably deals with Rice Bank and probably has insurance with them as well. Correct assumption that you will probably not be told about these insurances. Best of luck, the wife's grandmama passed away a year ago (at 102 years old) and the costs exceeded 150,000. It was well done, and worth the expense. Chok dee!

mario299 :jap:

Agree with you. My mother in law passed away and the ceremony took five days with a huge family clan showing up. Costs about 200,000 with a return/share of the rest of the family of ~50,000. I was happy when it was over, but it also was a good experience to be part of this culture. If your wife explains you all the background it is really interesting.

fatfather