Thai-Cambodia Border Fighting 'Damages' Temple

[webfact]

Thai-Cambodia border fighting 'damages' temple

by Suy Se

PHNOM PENH, February 6, 2011 (AFP) - Cambodia accused Thailand of damaging an 11th-century temple in fresh clashes on Sunday and appealed to the United Nations to halt the "aggression" in the third day of cross-border fighting.

Cambodian Prime Minister Hun Sen urged the United Nations Security Council to hold an urgent meeting "so as to stop Thailand's aggression" which has "gravely threatened peace and stability in the region".

But Thai government spokesman Panitan Wattanayagorn rejected the accusation that his country was the aggressor, saying: "Thailand has clear policy that we will not invade any country."

Thai army spokesman Colonel Sunsern Kaewkumnerd said Sunday's unrest was "more serious" than the previous two days of violence. He said about ten soldiers were injured, but that there were no reports of new deaths.

The ancient Preah Vihear temple, which is surrounded by disputed territory, was damaged by Thai artillery fire, according to Cambodia, which said one wing of the building had "collapsed" as a result.

Ties between the neighbours have been strained since Preah Vihear was granted UN World Heritage status in July 2008. Thailand and Cambodia have each accused the other of starting the ongoing clashes.

Violence erupted on the border for the third day in a row on Sunday evening, ending a ceasefire agreed after earlier fighting left at least five people dead.

Hun Sen said "many" artillery shells had been fired into Preah Vihear temple on Sunday, in a statement addressed to the current president of the UN Security Council.

He said some shells fired by Thailand had landed around 20 kilometres (12 miles) inside Cambodian territory.

As the fighting raged on and spread to other border areas, Thai army spokesman Sunsern said both sides were in talks to negotiate a ceasefire.

Thai television showed images of bloodied soldiers and people being evacuated clutching blankets.

Thousands of people fled their homes as villages were evacuated on both sides of the frontier after the fighting first erupted on Friday.

Observers say the temple dispute had been used as a rallying point to stir nationalist sentiment in Thailand and Cambodia.

The World Court ruled in 1962 that Preah Vihear itself belonged to Cambodia, although its main entrance lies in Thailand and the 4.6-square-kilometre (1.8-square-mile) area around the temple is claimed by both sides.

Cambodia said two of its soldiers and one civilian were killed in Friday's fighting, while Thailand said a villager on its side of the border also died.

A Thai soldier was killed in a brief resumption of hostilities on Saturday morning.

The media in both countries have said the toll could be much higher, however, with Thai newspapers suggesting 64 Cambodian soldiers were killed. Across the border, it was reported that at least 30 Thai troops had died.

Tensions have flared in recent weeks in the wake of the arrest of seven Thai nationals for illegal entry into Cambodia in late December.

Two of them were sentenced to lengthy jail terms for spying, in a case that has caused outrage among the nationalist "Yellow Shirts".

Around 5,000 "Yellow Shirts", an influential force in Thailand's colour-coded politics, gathered outside the government compound in Bangkok on Saturday calling for Thai Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva's resignation.

It has been suggested that the Association of Southeast Asian Nations could move to mediate in the row and sources in the Cambodian foreign ministry have said Indonesian Foreign Minister Marty Natalegawa will visit the country on Monday.

Indonesia is the current chairman of ASEAN.

But the subject of the meeting is unknown and Abhisit on Sunday dismissed ASEAN intervention as "unnecessary".

-- (c) Copyright AFP 2011-02-07

[webfact]

URGENT Cambodia calls on UN in border clashes with Thailand

PHNOM PENH, February 6, 2011 (AFP) - Cambodian Prime Minister Hun Sen urged the United Nations on Sunday to help "stop Thailand's aggression", according to a statement read out on state-run television.

In a request addressed to the current president of the United Nations Security Council, he called for an "urgent meeting" of the body "so as to stop Thailand's aggression".

A third round of border clashes between Thai and Cambodian troops in as many days has caused damage to a disputed 11th-century temple, the Cambodian government has said.

The latest violence brings an end to a ceasefire agreed after earlier fighting left at least five people dead.

Both sides have accused the other of starting the clashes.

-- (c) Copyright AFP 2011-02-07

[andrew55]

This all a big 'flame'. Too unbelievable to be true. Good one guys. Had me going until I thought about it. Just couldn't happen...really....Na.

[timekeeper]

finish it off, no temple = reduced cause for a dispute with Cambodia

the land will be just more land in the jungle near to nothing special

no reason to fight over that

the fuss will die down quickly

the Taliban destroyed the the World Heritage Buddhas in Afghanistan ten years ago

no one remembers now

[hammered]

finish it off, no temple = reduced cause for a dispute with Cambodia

the land will be just more land in the jungle near to nothing special

no reason to fight over that

the fuss will die down quickly

the Taliban destroyed the the World Heritage Buddhas in Afghanistan ten years ago

no one remembers now

Hun Sen would never forgive or forget a personal humiliation like that.

[andrew55]

finish it off, no temple = reduced cause for a dispute with Cambodia

the land will be just more land in the jungle near to nothing special

no reason to fight over that

the fuss will die down quickly

the Taliban destroyed the the World Heritage Buddhas in Afghanistan ten years ago

no one remembers now

Some remember.

[drronnie]

URGENT Cambodia calls on UN in border clashes with Thailand

PHNOM PENH, February 6, 2011 (AFP) - Cambodian Prime Minister Hun Sen urged the United Nations on Sunday to help "stop Thailand's aggression", according to a statement read out on state-run television.

In a request addressed to the current president of the United Nations Security Council, he called for an "urgent meeting" of the body "so as to stop Thailand's aggression".

A third round of border clashes between Thai and Cambodian troops in as many days has caused damage to a disputed 11th-century temple, the Cambodian government has said.

The latest violence brings an end to a ceasefire agreed after earlier fighting left at least five people dead.

Both sides have accused the other of starting the clashes.

-- (c) Copyright AFP 2011-02-07

Interesting that the Cambodians use the same tactics as the red shirts last year. First provoke trouble and the call for the UN

[sirchai]

This all a big 'flame'. Too unbelievable to be true. Good one guys. Had me going until I thought about it. Just couldn't happen...really....Na.

The World Court ruled in 1962 that Preah Vihear itself belonged to Cambodia, although its main entrance lies in Thailand and the 4.6-square-kilometre (1.8-square-mile) area around the temple is claimed by both sides.

"World Court in 1962? " Wasn't it some French guys who drew a map wrong?

Anyways fighting goes on and border runs impossible. Helicopters and gunfire everywhere. Innocent people got killed, but not even mentioned. <deleted>'s going on? :jap:

[SomTumTiger]

Interesting that the Cambodians use the same tactics as the red shirts last year. First provoke trouble and the call for the UN

They learned from the master.

[silp1979]

finish it off, no temple = reduced cause for a dispute with Cambodia

the land will be just more land in the jungle near to nothing special

no reason to fight over that

the fuss will die down quickly

the Taliban destroyed the the World Heritage Buddhas in Afghanistan ten years ago

no one remembers now

Some remember.

indeed

[silp1979]

Interesting that the Cambodians use the same tactics as the red shirts last year. First provoke trouble and the call for the UN

They learned from the master.

didn't 7 thai dwarfs wonder around over there before the sh..t hi the fan?

[MAC10]

URGENT Cambodia calls on UN in border clashes with Thailand

PHNOM PENH, February 6, 2011 (AFP) - Cambodian Prime Minister Hun Sen urged the United Nations on Sunday to help "stop Thailand's aggression", according to a statement read out on state-run television.

In a request addressed to the current president of the United Nations Security Council, he called for an "urgent meeting" of the body "so as to stop Thailand's aggression".

A third round of border clashes between Thai and Cambodian troops in as many days has caused damage to a disputed 11th-century temple, the Cambodian government has said.

The latest violence brings an end to a ceasefire agreed after earlier fighting left at least five people dead.

Both sides have accused the other of starting the clashes.

-- (c) Copyright AFP 2011-02-07

Interesting that the Cambodians use the same tactics as the red shirts last year. First provoke trouble and the call for the UN

You do understand that the Khemer Rouge represented Cambodia at the united Nations for years with the support of the United States, United kingdom, and Thailand right? Seems a bit hypocritical for people to complain about having the UN asked to intervene when most of our home country's use the UN for any agenda they can dream up.

Seems pretty obvious Thailand has no leg to stand on in this argument. It also seems a very bad joke that with all the money and training the Thai Military has vs. the Khemer basically standing around in flip flops with old AKs and few morters that the Thai are on the losing end of the stick.

Hey, maybe the Yellows will get the fight they have been asking for. If things kick off there on the border, the South goes up in smoke, Khemer arm the Reds, Thaksin sets up a new capital in Udon, Yellow VIPs flee the country, Bangkok sinks, endless tourist visas and a chicken in every Tuk Tuk.

[Robby nz]

didn't 7 thai dwarfs wonder around over there before the sh..t hi the fan?

Sure did and their yellow shirt idiot mates are certainly helping to stirr that <deleted>.

Has anyone seen any photos or other evidence that the temple has actually been hit?

The Thai Army has said they have only retaliated against Cambodian army positions and avoided the temple and civilian areas.

On the other hand I have seen photos of a shhool that has been hit by Cambodian shells.

But the Thai madia always get it wrong...right?

And of course the cambodian press, under watchful eye of their dictator, always tell the truth.

[SomTumTiger]

But the Thai madia always get it wrong...right?

And of course the cambodian press, under watchful eye of their dictator, always tell the truth.

At least according to the bar stool pundits here on TV.

[gemini81]

nice claim Hun, firing into the temple, counterproductive. At least there'll be nothing left then all this hoopla will come to an end I hope!

[MAC10]

nice claim Hun, firing into the temple, counterproductive. At least there'll be nothing left then all this hoopla will come to an end I hope!

Have you ever been to Thailand? Hoopla over? The only time Thailand is ever normal is on their episode of the Twilight Zone.

[webfact]

Govt Denies Cambodia's Seizure of Thai Temple

UPDATE : 7 February 2011

The deputy prime minister on national security says there is no confirmed report about Cambodian troops' occupation of a Thai temple in the disputed border area

Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban said no official report has been submitted about Cambodian troops' seizure of an ancient temple in Si Sa Ket or the arrests of Thai soldiers.

Suthep also commented on Cambodia's claim that significant damage has been done to the the Preah Vihear Temple, resulting from counterattacks by the Thai security forces.

He said the Thai authorities have not been able to verify the claim.

Suthep said the army can recommend that border crossing points be closed, but the livelihood of people living near the border and border trade must be taken into consideration.

He insisted the government is still trying to bring an end to the violence via peaceful dialogues.

Meanwhile, the deputy prime minister commended the Interior Ministry and the army for their timely evacuation of people from the battle-affected areas.

Suthep said the affected Thai citizens will be given help and compensation for properties damaged by the fighting.

The deputy premier reiterated the Cambodia's submission of a letter asking for the United Nations's intervention into the current border conflict will not put Thailand at a disadvantage in dealing with the matter on the international stage.

Suthep insisted Thai troops have never invaded any country and their recent actions were for protection of the country's sovereignty.

-- Tan Network 2011-02-07

[HerbalEd]

finish it off, no temple = reduced cause for a dispute with Cambodia

the land will be just more land in the jungle near to nothing special

no reason to fight over that

the fuss will die down quickly

the Taliban destroyed the the World Heritage Buddhas in Afghanistan ten years ago

no one remembers now

I remember very well .... as do millions of Buddhists world wide.

[MUYTHAI]

finish it off, no temple = reduced cause for a dispute with Cambodia

the land will be just more land in the jungle near to nothing special

no reason to fight over that

the fuss will die down quickly

the Taliban destroyed the the World Heritage Buddhas in Afghanistan ten years ago

no one remembers now

Hun Sen would never forgive or forget a personal humiliation like that.

Hun Sen? In general, all Cambodians would never forgive Thialand if they destroyed the temple complex. I would not forgive the Thai military/governemnt either...and I have good friends (Thai and Khmer) who live in both countries.

[bangon04]

There are now 7 or 8 open threads on roughly the same topic - Thailand's pi**ing contest with Cambodia - and they seem to all be arriving at the same conclusion / stalemate.

Any chance of merging some?

[Nigel1500]

This whole affair saddens me.

What is being reported in BKK differs from what I'm hearing on the phone, both from Australia and Nam Yuen, Ubon Ratchathani, where we have relatives. No doubt, it also differs to what the Cambodians ascert.

I read many strong, polarised views of the situation on this forum, many "jai-lorn" posts. I respect all of your opinions but choose to keep mine to myself. Instead, I offer this little piece of advice:

No matter the outcome of this little political/military stouch, or the next, or the one after that, or the last, because irrespective of how comfortable we all become with our life, our family and our surroundings, humanity will NEVER FAIL to disappoint !!!

[hammered]

This all a big 'flame'. Too unbelievable to be true. Good one guys. Had me going until I thought about it. Just couldn't happen...really....Na.

The World Court ruled in 1962 that Preah Vihear itself belonged to Cambodia, although its main entrance lies in Thailand and the 4.6-square-kilometre (1.8-square-mile) area around the temple is claimed by both sides.

"World Court in 1962? " Wasn't it some French guys who drew a map wrong?

Anyways fighting goes on and border runs impossible. Helicopters and gunfire everywhere. Innocent people got killed, but not even mentioned. <deleted>'s going on? :jap:

The world is full of border disputes and conflicts and death and mayhem caused by the arbitrary drawing of lines that made little sense to local populations in colonial times that have real meaning now. The advent of the nation state and more so the advent of artifically created nation states by external powers is a complicated issue. Im surprised nobody has seen this angle before.

[Robby nz]

On one of the other threads there is a report that a Vietnamese reporter said there are only some masonary chips from small arms fire at the temple.

Contrast that to the pix of a school and Wat bombed in Thailand.

[stepenwolf1958]

finish it off, no temple = reduced cause for a dispute with Cambodia

the land will be just more land in the jungle near to nothing special

no reason to fight over that

the fuss will die down quickly

the Taliban destroyed the the World Heritage Buddhas in Afghanistan ten years ago

no one remembers now

Same happened in Mostar, Bosnia and Herzegovina with the old and famous bridge(UNESCO) so what happened to Croatian army? Who care? Funny to think about it.

[animatic]

finish it off, no temple = reduced cause for a dispute with Cambodia

the land will be just more land in the jungle near to nothing special

no reason to fight over that

the fuss will die down quickly

the Taliban destroyed the the World Heritage Buddhas in Afghanistan ten years ago

no one remembers now

Hun Sen would never forgive or forget a personal humiliation like that.

Hun Sen? In general, all Cambodians would never forgive Thialand if they destroyed the temple complex. I would not forgive the Thai military/governemnt either...and I have good friends (Thai and Khmer) who live in both countries.

They will just fight over the dust,

and the lost face...

[stepenwolf1958]

Funniest thing.

"But Thai government spokesman Panitan Wattanayagorn rejected the accusation that his country was the aggressor, saying: "Thailand has clear policy that we will not invade any country."

Why to invade at all. You can sit in your country(any in this world), your territory near the border and bombing all people in range of your weapons and you have no need to invade neighbours. Is that mean you are not aggressor? Games, games, games(war games of course).

[whybother]

They will just fight over the dust,

and the lost face...

They're basically fighting over dust already. The temple was lost in 62. It's just the land around it that they're fighting for now.

Edited February 7, 2011 by whybother

[stepenwolf1958]

Should we believe this? Why to believe to Cambodians? They said:

"The ancient Preah Vihear temple, which is surrounded by disputed territory, was damaged by Thai artillery fire, according to Cambodia, which said one wing of the building had "collapsed" as a result."

Just wonder what if THEY did as way to blame Thais???

[lungmi]

Babies in a sandbox, overprotecting mothers fight for their babies.

My impression, for the rest I know nothing.

Edited February 7, 2011 by lungmi

[siamiam]

The World Court ruled in 1962 that Preah Vihear itself belonged to Cambodia, although its main entrance lies in Thailand and the 4.6-square-kilometre (1.8-square-mile) area around the temple is claimed by both sides.

"World Court in 1962? " Wasn't it some French guys who drew a map wrong?

:jap:

I have been wondering about this. Being a 'farang belonging to Thailand', I am aware that I may be biased in favor of the Thais in this dispute. I have no experience with land surveying or map drawing, but when I went to the Prasat Phra Viharn a few ago, the second thing I thought upon arriving at the temple's cliff top, was 'why is this in Cambodia?', (the first thought I had was 'what a beautiful temple and location'). I believe I read somewhere that the map was drawn thus, because of a stream in the area. The only 'stream' I saw in the area was dried up and looking insignificant, to me. And, the temple sits near the edge of an impressive escarpment, not much above the land to the immediate north in Thailand; to the south, far below lies Cambodia. Perhaps someone can enlighten me and help me see the logic of this area being in Cambodia.

Edited February 8, 2011 by siamiam