Thai Army Will Retaliate And No Longer Talk With Cambodia: Sansern

[kuffki]

Like I said above "It would be very easy for Cambodia to push into Thai or disputed territory, and then complain to the UN so that hostilities stop and they don't get pushed out."

Why do Cambodia need Thailand to withdraw troops so that they can withdraw troops?

Cambodia is NOT seeking all means possible to end the conflict. They are still fighting.

Because it takes 2 to tango

Because Thailand is not exactly known for its honesty or integrity when it comes to politics

Because when there is a conflict, it takes 2 sides to agree.

[truethailand]

Thai Army Will Retaliate And No Longer Talk With Cambodia: Sansern

Title of this topic and demonstrates who is the agressor and who is calling the shots. Be sure its not Abhisit controlling his troops

The title indicates that Cambodia is the aggressor. What's your point?

Sansern indicates its Cambodias fault with the word retaliate.. but his credibility is lower than a chiuaua's gonads

[metisdead]

Off topic posts as well troll posts have been removed from view.

[webfact]

Hun Sen Calls for UN Intervention

Cambodian Prime Minister Hun Sen has submitted a letter to the United Nations to ask that it mediate the border dispute between Cambodia and Thailand.

Cambodia's state-run Bayon Television broadcast Cambodian Prime Minister Hun Sen's letter on Sunday night asking the United Nations to circulate a letter to all member states, informing them of Thailand's alleged attempts to invade Cambodian territory over recent years.

In the letter, the Cambodian PM also claimed that damage has been caused to Preah Vihear Temple, a UNESCO World Heritage site since 2008, following the latest clashes between Thai and Cambodian troops at the border.

In response to Hun Sen's call for UN intervention, Thailand's Secretary to Foreign Minister Chawanont Intharakomalsut said the ministry will seek discussions with the UN to clarify that the areas which Hun Sen claimed as Cambodian soil, is, in fact, under Thai sovereignty.

He said the minisry will also confirm that there is an existing bilateral framework for negotiations regarding disputed land.

The foreign minister is holding a meeting, as an official statement is expected to be issued in response to Hun Sen's move.

-- Tan Network 2011-02-07

[jayjay0]

You got proof?

I know, those buildings were probably blown up by fake Cambodians.

Firstly it is against the rules to modify posts when quoting.

Secondly, you KNOW of some buildings being blown up

You DO NOT KNOW how and by whom and what the actual building was.

You only KNOW what you have been told by the media.

Please answer my original question which you conveniently cut out from your post. So let me put it to you again.

Cambodia is asking for UN to intervene and for ASEAN, while Thailand has rejected any help from ASEAN to even mediate. So who is hiding what from coming out?

You have a point there ,if the Thai military thought they were responding to the Cambodian Aggressor then one would think it would be in the Thai interest to call for external mediation to show every body that it was the Cambodians fault but for some unknown reason the Thai authorities don't want to go there, may be some thing to hide, who knows.

It certainly is hard to justify Thailand actions given there refusal of help to end the problem.

I wasn't there and can only guess but I would bet that was how Hitler handled his problems.

[Thai at Heart]

So now we know what the army thinks.

What does the government think?

What do the thai people think?

The army does not care what anybody thinks.. Coup coming soon

Are you suggesting that the military is encouraging a confrontation to justify a coup on the premise that it is acting to defend the nation?

Interesting theory..,,,

On the basis, that the only way for the Thai Military to prevail in this situation, is for them to declare and all out attack on Cambodia, and the that the politicians will never allow it to happen. I would say, it isn't that unlikely that that army may go down the route of a coup. It doesn't mean that they might not get their ass kicked trying to take 4 sq/km, but at least they can be accused of being lilly livered, or hiding behind politicians. There is going to be a given percentage of the Thai army champing at the bit to attack Cambodia right now.

I would never underestimate the vanity of armed forces leaders in many parts of the world. Throw in Thailand where the army appears to answer to no one, I can't imagine the idea of the Thai army sitting put whilst it is being shelled by the Cambodians is a particularly appealing idea for Sgt Somchai brought up on a diet of grossly misplaced military pride.

[truethailand]

So now we know what the army thinks.

What does the government think?

What do the thai people think?

The army does not care what anybody thinks.. Coup coming soon

Are you suggesting that the military is encouraging a confrontation to justify a coup on the premise that it is acting to defend the nation?

Interesting theory..,,,

If one were to follow Dubya's re-election strategy, one would think an election is more likely than a coup?

Dubyas in the West and yes he has many friends, including papa, who benefit from war games but this is a country where the rulers cannot afford to chance an election. We are all only opinions but is it possible that there will be a backlash from last years killings at the ballot box. Most people on here quote Thai press... enough said Taking control of the helm for a couple more years will, in their eyes, see them thru what may be a huge transitional period of Thailand history.

[pedro01]

I think you can read too much into headlines like this.

Wars are fought on many fronts & messages to the media is just one of these fronts.

This is posturing, it should not be taken as fact, nor as a statement of true intentions.

Generally speaking, actualy strategy isn't made public in advance.

[jayjay0]

looks, like the conflict is escalating.

thailand should agree to the mediation from the un security council or asean.

both sites should withdraw all military from the border area, as it was proposed already a long time ago by cambodia.

maybe you should move to Cambodia

you seem to support them........

My read of londonthai is that he wants a end to the problem.

My read of you is you want no part of that.

Hence the my way or move to Cambodia attitude.

[whybother]

Like I said above "It would be very easy for Cambodia to push into Thai or disputed territory, and then complain to the UN so that hostilities stop and they don't get pushed out."

Why do Cambodia need Thailand to withdraw troops so that they can withdraw troops?

Cambodia is NOT seeking all means possible to end the conflict. They are still fighting.

Because it takes 2 to tango

Because Thailand is not exactly known for its honesty or integrity when it comes to politics

Because when there is a conflict, it takes 2 sides to agree.

And Cambodia IS known for it's honesty and integrity in politics????????????????

If Cambodia wants to stop fighting, then they should withdraw to somewhere that is clearly inside Cambodian territory. THEN they can complain to the UN or ASEAN about Thailand.

The fact that Thai villages were hit with shells indicates that fighting is occurring IN Thailand (across borders). Why are Cambodia fighting across borders if they are claiming that Thailand invaded them?

[Pi Sek]

A couple of things, and then I'll butt out.

Some posters are making the valid question of why Cambodia requested UN intervention and Thailand declined. I don't think that 100% correct is it (I've just seen the news since being in recluse all yesterday)? I thought that Cambodia wrote a letter requesting UN attention but did not ask for intervention. And then, when the UN offered to "mediate", Thailand refused. If the UN offered to "intervene", both countries would lose face and lose the perceived upper hand.

Although I can see that having two saving-face emphatic cultures arguing with nationalism as the focal point for both sides is a bad thing and might benefit from external mediation, to be honest I might have refused if I was Thailand too. Look at other countries where the UN has mediated - a guaranteed minimum of 3 months of local strife, with an overly-PC UN security mandate meaning they don't actually do anything when they witness illegal acts (like alleged Cambodian shelling of a Thai school or alleged Thai invasion of Cambodia) going down. And not to mention the last time the UN ruled on anything Thai.

Some people are trying to attach Thaksin to this issue - I can see the connection, but it's a pretty distant one. I doubt that Thaksin is behind this conflict - Hun Sen I'm sure doesn't like him that much as to start a losing war on his behalf - although I can see he might well be a factor.

The other thing - it's not a Buddhist temple, it's a Hindu one. It is just as irrelevant to both cultures!

[kuffki]

Like I said above "It would be very easy for Cambodia to push into Thai or disputed territory, and then complain to the UN so that hostilities stop and they don't get pushed out."

Why do Cambodia need Thailand to withdraw troops so that they can withdraw troops?

Cambodia is NOT seeking all means possible to end the conflict. They are still fighting.

Because it takes 2 to tango

Because Thailand is not exactly known for its honesty or integrity when it comes to politics

Because when there is a conflict, it takes 2 sides to agree.

And Cambodia IS known for it's honesty and integrity in politics????????????????

If Cambodia wants to stop fighting, then they should withdraw to somewhere that is clearly inside Cambodian territory. THEN they can complain to the UN or ASEAN about Thailand.

The fact that Thai villages were hit with shells indicates that fighting is occurring IN Thailand (across borders). Why are Cambodia fighting across borders if they are claiming that Thailand invaded them?

Hence why both parties need to agree on troop withdrawal. Thailand refused!!! no if's, no but's just simply refused.

And since in Thai media we are not getting the reports on Cambodia i am not sure how you know where Thai shells are landing.

You appear to be pro Thai no matter what, and what i am saying that you should look at all the facts and opinions logically.

What you say is true, but also try to read and understand what i say, because sadly its also true.

And if Thailand was as much of an angel as you want it to be, Thailand would agree on military withdrawal and help from ASEAN or UN

[junglist]

The casualities are pretty low at the moment which leads me to believe there's nothing to fret about. After all both armies are fairly incompetent and weak so it's like two cripples butting heads in their wheelchairs. The only Thai forces worth mentioning are the few well trained naval commando units and the U.S. purchased airplanes. Other than that it'll remain a low intensity border conflict. Neither has the mechanized or armored power to make any serious stand.

Huston we have Wisdom...

[gregb]

Agree, but it does not explain why Thailand has declined help from ASEAN to mediate, or why Thailand declined Cambodian proposal to withdraw troops from both sides to avoid any further military conflict. It also does not explain why Thai military would make a statement of no more talks.

Cambodia can withdraw their troops when ever they like. They don't need UN or ASEAN approval to do that.

I am sorry but thats just trolling now.

Do not mix 2-3 different issues into 1.

Cambodia proposed for both parties to withdraw military from the border. Thailand refused.

Cambodia asked for help from independent organizations. Thailand refused

Cambodia is seeking all means possible to end the conflict. Thailand official position "no more talks with Cambodia"

Like I said above "It would be very easy for Cambodia to push into Thai or disputed territory, and then complain to the UN so that hostilities stop and they don't get pushed out."

Why do Cambodia need Thailand to withdraw troops so that they can withdraw troops?

Cambodia is NOT seeking all means possible to end the conflict. They are still fighting.

I'd like someone to give me a history of what actually transpired, free from political rhetoric. I have no doubt that both Thais and Khmers are using this battle for domestic political purposes. I'd just like to understand what those purposes are. As I understand it, the following events transpired:

Thaksin negotiated to get control of the offshore oil and gas from Cambodia. As part of this agreement he agreed not to contest Cambodia listing the temple as a World Heritage site, with all the appropriate tourist revenue that goes along with it.

Thaksin was outed, this agreement was destroyed, Hun Sen got angry but refused to back down from the World Heritage listing.

Question: Who or what in Cambodia is going to be affected if the listing is delayed or abandoned? There must be a wealthy individual who is being personally affected by this. Any idea who it is?

Now Thailand is acting to make this listing even more difficult. Hun Sen is reacting by trying to bring in outside countries to try and further pressure Thailand into accepting the agreements made by the Thaksin regime. It is understood that Thailand will be at a severe disadvantage in any discussion mediated by third parties. After all, every country wants Cambodia's favor, given their rich, untapped resource base. Thailand has little of value to offer.

Thailand is well aware how precarious their situation is. So they wait. However, Thailand has absolutely NO incentive to try and blow this thing into a larger problem. Thailand is benefiting from the status quo. They would be quite happy to see this state of affairs continue indefinitely.

Cambodia, on the other hand, needs to get this wrapped up. They want the listing issue resolved, and the ability to develop the region. The best way to do this is to inflame the situation to the point where there is no choice but for the international community to step in and resolve the problem. This solution will almost certainly go in their favor.

If I had to guess who was firing first, I would say it is almost certainly the Khmer soldiers under the direction of Hun Sen. They are trying to provoke action so as to get this issue over and done with.

It is just sad that lives are being lost so someone can become wealthy servicing tourists.

Does anyone actually know who the person is who stands to gain from the temple listing? Find him and I think we find the key to ending this problem. In my experience, it is always one wealthy person or one wealthy family. Nobody in this part of the world does anything for the good of the country or the people. There is someone in Cambodia who stands to profit from this. My feeling is that while all sides are contributing in this stupidity, the deaths of these individuals are primarily on his hands.

[hanuman1]

The government doesn't want it, no political party wants it, and the vast majority of Thais don't want it. And yet there is a group of people powerful enough to make the army enter into this fighting in the name of Thailand. Chamlong and the yellows do only the rhetoric and posturing.

The army doesn't take orders from Chamlong. The real power that is driving this is way above him and his crew.

[hammered]

Both sides claim the lump of land in question and therefore both sides will say the other trespassed on their territory. Cambodia is militarily weaker and therefore appeals for UN attention. Thailand which is militarily stronger doesnt mind letting it go a little longer. Both sides are using some old mortars and artillery which means shells can easily go astray. The temple which is Cambodian is in the middle of the artillery exchange meaning it will increasingly take hits by accident the longer this goes on. More worryingly than what happens to a piece of stone is that people on both sides are being killed, injured and displaced.

Who is right and who is wrong. Nobody will ever know and the answer is to control the propaganda ie the media stories. Cambodia plays poor little Cambodia bullied by big neighbour but is hamstrung by Hun Sens image. Thailand plays unruly neighbour led by military strongman plays up against civilised member of world community but suffers from its own unruly recent history.

[hammered]

The government doesn't want it, no political party wants it, and the vast majority of Thais don't want it. And yet there is a group of people powerful enough to make the army enter into this fighting in the name of Thailand. Chamlong and the yellows do only the rhetoric and posturing.

The army doesn't take orders from Chamlong. The real power that is driving this is way above him and his crew.

And dont discount Hun Sen's deliberate prodding and pushing. There are political agendas on both sides.

[whybother]

Hence why both parties need to agree on troop withdrawal. Thailand refused!!! no if's, no but's just simply refused.

And since in Thai media we are not getting the reports on Cambodia i am not sure how you know where Thai shells are landing.

You appear to be pro Thai no matter what, and what i am saying that you should look at all the facts and opinions logically.

What you say is true, but also try to read and understand what i say, because sadly its also true.

And if Thailand was as much of an angel as you want it to be, Thailand would agree on military withdrawal and help from ASEAN or UN

Did Cambodia actually suggest troop withdrawal? I thought they just sent a letter to the UN asking them to pressure Thailand to withdraw.

I am not pro-Thai or pro-Cambodian. I am pro-facts. And you don't appear to be posting any.

[Thai at Heart]

Both sides claim the lump of land in question and therefore both sides will say the other trespassed on their territory. Cambodia is militarily weaker and therefore appeals for UN attention. Thailand which is militarily stronger doesnt mind letting it go a little longer. Both sides are using some old mortars and artillery which means shells can easily go astray. The temple which is Cambodian is in the middle of the artillery exchange meaning it will increasingly take hits by accident the longer this goes on. More worryingly than what happens to a piece of stone is that people on both sides are being killed, injured and displaced.

Who is right and who is wrong. Nobody will ever know and the answer is to control the propaganda ie the media stories. Cambodia plays poor little Cambodia bullied by big neighbour but is hamstrung by Hun Sens image. Thailand plays unruly neighbour led by military strongman plays up against civilised member of world community but suffers from its own unruly recent history.

I don't think that Cambodia is appealing because they are militarily weaker. Up close and personal like this, the Cambodians can probably give close to as good as they get from the Thais. It just makes their story appear more appealing in the public eye. Thailand might prevail in trying to take 4sq km of land, but can you imagine them trying to explain "why" to their allies. Cambodia doesn't have to play by the rules, they largely have no allies.

[gregb]

Hence why both parties need to agree on troop withdrawal. Thailand refused!!! no if's, no but's just simply refused.

And since in Thai media we are not getting the reports on Cambodia i am not sure how you know where Thai shells are landing.

You appear to be pro Thai no matter what, and what i am saying that you should look at all the facts and opinions logically.

What you say is true, but also try to read and understand what i say, because sadly its also true.

And if Thailand was as much of an angel as you want it to be, Thailand would agree on military withdrawal and help from ASEAN or UN

Did Cambodia actually suggest troop withdrawal? I thought they just sent a letter to the UN asking them to pressure Thailand to withdraw.

I am not pro-Thai or pro-Cambodian. I am pro-facts. And you don't appear to be posting any.

Cambodia benefits dramatically from troop withdrawl, no matter who proposed it or how it is accomplished.

Cambodia is attempting to build a road to reach the temple from the Khmer side. No matter how you look at it, they must push that road through the disputed territory in order to actually reach the temple. This is what brought the Thai troops to the area in the first place.

Obviously, there is no way Thailand can agree to a troop withdrawl, whether coerced or by treaty. The road could then be completed without opposition, and this would effectively remove the only bargaining point Thailand has in this whole mess, which is that access to the temple currently comes via Thailand.

I am also very pro facts. Both Thailand and Cambodia are capable of lies and deceit in this game. I don't give either the benefit of the doubt. I want to know who stands to make money on this. They are the only people who can actually change anything.

[hammered]

Hence why both parties need to agree on troop withdrawal. Thailand refused!!! no if's, no but's just simply refused.

And since in Thai media we are not getting the reports on Cambodia i am not sure how you know where Thai shells are landing.

You appear to be pro Thai no matter what, and what i am saying that you should look at all the facts and opinions logically.

What you say is true, but also try to read and understand what i say, because sadly its also true.

And if Thailand was as much of an angel as you want it to be, Thailand would agree on military withdrawal and help from ASEAN or UN

Did Cambodia actually suggest troop withdrawal? I thought they just sent a letter to the UN asking them to pressure Thailand to withdraw.

I am not pro-Thai or pro-Cambodian. I am pro-facts. And you don't appear to be posting any.

Cambodia benefits dramatically from troop withdrawl, no matter who proposed it or how it is accomplished.

Cambodia is attempting to build a road to reach the temple from the Khmer side. No matter how you look at it, they must push that road through the disputed territory in order to actually reach the temple. This is what brought the Thai troops to the area in the first place.

Obviously, there is no way Thailand can agree to a troop withdrawl, whether coerced or by treaty. The road could then be completed without opposition, and this would effectively remove the only bargaining point Thailand has in this whole mess, which is that access to the temple currently comes via Thailand.

I am also very pro facts. Both Thailand and Cambodia are capable of lies and deceit in this game. I don't give either the benefit of the doubt. I want to know who stands to make money on this. They are the only people who can actually change anything.

True. Both sides think the disputed land is theirs and wont allow anything on "their" territory.

[animatic]

the Thai,s are hard headed I am suprised that the not claim Angkor wat as Thai terotery

They may still...

[gregb]

Cambodia doesn't have to play by the rules, they largely have no allies.

You do a disservice to Cambodia. Cambodia has untold wealth in the form of untapped resources. Everyone wants to be Cambodia's friend right now and get a piece of those spoils. Thailand, by contrast, has very little to offer.

[hanuman1]

The government doesn't want it, no political party wants it, and the vast majority of Thais don't want it. And yet there is a group of people powerful enough to make the army enter into this fighting in the name of Thailand. Chamlong and the yellows do only the rhetoric and posturing.

The army doesn't take orders from Chamlong. The real power that is driving this is way above him and his crew.

And dont discount Hun Sen's deliberate prodding and pushing. There are political agendas on both sides.

Yes, I'd like to know more about Hun Sen's stance in the lead up to this outbreak of violence. All we heard form the Thai media was about Yellows going to the border and complaining, Yellows in court in Phnom Phen and the uproar about the positioning a Cambodian flag or sign (whichever) in the border area. The Thai government looked pretty much like they were trying to calm sentiments all along. Then boom, the firing starts.

To me, the start of the fighting was a surprise. Are you saying it may have been less of a surprise for the Cambodian side?

[animatic]

The government doesn't want it, no political party wants it, and the vast majority of Thais don't want it. And yet there is a group of people powerful enough to make the army enter into this fighting in the name of Thailand. Chamlong and the yellows do only the rhetoric and posturing.

The army doesn't take orders from Chamlong. The real power that is driving this is way above him and his crew.

I suspect third hands are retouching this off each time a truce is reached.

I also suspect long term financial motives are well hidden behind the nationalist rhetoric and face making/saving.

I think Chamlong is a pawn or aging knight, who is being played very well by a master manipulator or 3.

Either they are quite daft / round the twist,

or there is some much more malevolent going on than simple political maneuverings.

[drronnie]

Could it be that Thaksin is financially backing the regime in Phnom Phen which also fuels these troubles? Do not foget as the Thai side are not angels neither is the dictatorial communist regim in Phnom Phen.

[Thai at Heart]

Cambodia doesn't have to play by the rules, they largely have no allies.

You do a disservice to Cambodia. Cambodia has untold wealth in the form of untapped resources. Everyone wants to be Cambodia's friend right now and get a piece of those spoils. Thailand, by contrast, has very little to offer.

I wasn't talking about economic allies, and I don't see any country coming running to be Cambodias friend by lending them military know how or technology to protect 4 sq km of scrubland. On the other side, Thailand has Cobra gold going on right now.

I can just imagine the conversations that are going on between the US and Thai armed forces about how Thailand is getting bogged down by such an apparently inferior fighting force.

[DP25]

Good strategy! Where do you go with that one? Nice! The sad thing is that all this has more to do with Thai internal politics than about ownership of some sacred site the Thai army has shown no problem blowing up!

[webfact]

Exchange of fire continues on the Cambodian border, as Cobra Gold military exercises with Thai, US, Korean troops begins today /via@BRThai

[DP25]

Cambodia doesn't have to play by the rules, they largely have no allies.

You do a disservice to Cambodia. Cambodia has untold wealth in the form of untapped resources. Everyone wants to be Cambodia's friend right now and get a piece of those spoils. Thailand, by contrast, has very little to offer.

I wasn't talking about economic allies, and I don't see any country coming running to be Cambodias friend by lending them military know how or technology to protect 4 sq km of scrubland. On the other side, Thailand has Cobra gold going on right now.

I can just imagine the conversations that are going on between the US and Thai armed forces about how Thailand is getting bogged down by such an apparently inferior fighting force.

I am sure they are being scolded like the children they are. Of course the Thais will make a movie about it in which they are dressing down the US like in that silly Thai Bodyguard movie where the local Thai cops were standing up to the CIA - pure fiction! I'm sure the conversation started like this from the US: "Sit down and shut up!" And they will!