Is It Racist To Not Be Attracted To Certain Racial Groups?

[Jingthing]

This thread was inspired by an excellent program I just watched, a three part documentary called

RACE - The Power of an Illusion | PBS

http://www.pbs.org/race/000_General/000_00-Home.htm

The boil down of the rather radical premise of the program (at least to non academically trained anthropologists) is that there is no such thing as race as a BIOLOGICAL construct, but race distinctions that do exist are societal constructs (and are different across different societies). The things we see as race are genetically extremely insignificant, skin color variations, different eyes, etc., but we make massive judgments about people's characters based on these clues, and these stereotypes get institutionalized in different cultures. The program is USA centric, and there are some shocking facts most people don't know, such as before the 1950's those defined as "not white" and also Africans (after the civil war) were not able to be naturalized as US citizens. Turns out, there are not many races, only one race, the HUMAN race (we are only ONE species). But we don't act like that for the most part, do we?

Back to the topic, to make it a little more fun, many of us have preferences of attraction based on the physical cues we call race. For example, many in Thailand may be especially attracted to Asians. Some Asians may not be into "white" people or some may also not be into other Asians. Are these attraction or non-attraction responses a subtle kind of racism, or not?

Personally, I have a few of these myself and I think most of us do.

Edited February 11, 2011 by Jingthing

[mca]

Are these attraction or non-attraction responses a subtle kind of racism, or not?

Not at all. It's that indefinable thing that is known as attraction. There's a girl in the local 7-11 that would be considered extremely plain by most people yet to me there's something about her that really floats my boat.

I'm not in the slightest bit attracted to blonde hair and blue eyes. Nothing. Nada. Not in any way at all. Am I subtly racist against some of my own race?

[Jingthing]

I think people CAN be racist towards their own race, most certainly. But the question I posed is about attraction. I am not sure about the answer to that. My impression is that we get wired for attraction at a very young age, but it still seems weird to me that many people would have a tendency towards more general attraction to one socially constructed racial group than another. It seems to me there may indeed be racism at play.

Terminology for this thread, I tend to accept the premise of the show that race doesn't really exist but in our own minds, but for convenience sake I will use the word race as generally accepted, even though it is indeed a socially constructed illusion. You should too I reckon or it would be impossible to talk about the topic.

Edited February 11, 2011 by Jingthing

[IanForbes]

It is hard to define, Jingthing. There are subtle things that attract me besides just the obvious beauty. I've become MORE attracted to some women the longer I know them. And, the reverse is true. I think most of us like to be liked and we respond in kind. But, if we show some sign of interest and get a blunt, cold shoulder then we are turned off. I'm pleasant to everyone and don't have trouble smiling at strangers, or remarking if someone looks particularly nice that day. And, I'm not in any way making a sexual advance on that person. I'm just stating what is obvious to me. Yes, I'll flirt outrageously with some women, but only when I know them well enough to do so. But again, I'm not making a sexual advance. I usually let the women make the first move and I'll respond if I am interested.

As far as an ethnic group is concerned I have mixed emotions. I never thought I would be so much attracted to certain Asian women, but I am. I was originally far more attracted to Latin lovelies. The classic Nordic beauty I can appreciate, but I'm no longer in the age bracket of the ones I find attractive. That leaves them to be just window ornaments. I don't know if this has anything to do with the study or not. In the past I've had black girl friends, Mediteranean girl friends, Asian girl friends, Nordic girl friends and the standard, every day North American girl friends. The ONLY group I'm not interested in is the Inuit and First Nations group. I just don't find their squat body type to be attractive.

[mca]

Give 'em another chance mate!

PWOOAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Jingthing]

Let's not get too silly. Obviously, individuals vary massively in their general attractiveness. But the intent is to talk about general patterns towards certain groups and not to others, such as being really into Latinos or really not into Latinos (hard to imagine that, but whatever).

More Thai related, isn't there a thing in Thai culture where there is more status connected to a lighter skinned Thai partner? Now that's interesting, because then you would need to get into are people choosing that way for social status or because of an internal attraction pattern, and how much does the social part influence the internal part, if at all?

BTW, please don't ask why this isn't a poll, ha ha.

Edited February 11, 2011 by Jingthing

[harrycallahan]

I've seen this topic debated on another thread. The issue of IQ was raised with obligatory cries of eugenics and people being called nazis.

The modern PC movement does like to suppress the use of the term 'race' as a means of fighting racism, or by redefining it as a triviality - if there's no race there's no racism. Me thinks that's just equivalent to sticking your head in the sand.

[appropriate]

Not really.

I find dark Thais ugly.

But I'm not racist. I'm an equal opportunity lover.

[Madivad]

But I'm not racist. I'm an equal opportunity lover.

[happyrobert]

Is it racist if I'm ONLY attracted too other races?

[krading]

But I'm not racist. I'm an equal opportunity lover.

That could be taken as the old 'dog on a chain' slur but I'm not one to start trouble.

Myself, I admire the matt black skin colour of some African 'tribes'. ( Is that more P.C. than ' races'?)

[rott]

Jingthing regardless of the racial aspect do you think size is important?

[Jingthing]

Jingthing regardless of the racial aspect do you think size is important?

I think that's a personal matter but perhaps related to the topic in the sense that many people expect different sizes with different racial groups, so if that is a priority for them, it could influence their attraction patterns. As I said in the OP, these physical differences that are insignificant genetically can to our superficial selves appear very large indeed.

Edited February 11, 2011 by Jingthing

[473geo]

If you express or hold a preference you are racist........................ridiculous

[ELCata]

It's generally agreed, even amongst sociologists, that race is a rather 'clumsy' & ill defined method to describe the differences between populations.

The (my) biological definition of race is 'a population that has been genetically isolated for a long enough period of time to develop one or more distinct morphological changes'. Skin colour is possibly the most distinct morphology, closely followed by eye / nose / mouth shape, then booty.

However, genetic research has shown that the difference within racial groups is vastly greater than the difference between groups. For example, in a study of people who described themselves as of white European descent, ∼30% were estimated to have <90% European ancestry*

I don't have much patience with sociologists at the best of times, but in this special case I wish that they would take their ideas, go forth & not fornicate; or at least refrain from spreading their memes.

As regards 'attractiveness'. Evolutionary theory tells us that we should be attracted to people who look like us, but different enough to prevent recessive genes becoming predominant. Even 'modern' tribal people have a rule that 'the son should marry the daughter from the furthest cousin's tent'.

A BM recently posted a composite picture of the 'average' woman from each country. I myself found myself attracted to Western, but not North African woman. The pale skinned English rose gave me a boner, but the pale skinned French woman didn't. I found my attracted to all but one of the 'SE Asian' women.:jap:

Another confounding factor is whether a chap is a face, boob, leg or indeed foot man. Each of the women from different races possesses one of these qualities in abundance (on average), so that even if a chap prefers a western light skin, full lips or 'come to bed' eyes may override the former preference.

* Mark D. Shriver and others, "Skin Pigmentation, Biogeographical Ancestry, and Admixture Mapping," Human Genetics 112 (2003): 387-99.

[MAJIC]

As the old saying goes"Beauty is in the eyes of the Beholder"

For whatever reason,which may have nothing to do with skin colour.

I have a friend who likes overweight women,and the fatter the better,his last Girlfriend was 18 stone,and he thought she was very beautiful.

Hes 48 and his latest Girlfriend is between 65 - 70 years old ,and of course another super heavyweight.

I and our circle of friends dont understand it, but as the old saying goes...........................................

Personal choice perhaps and not necessarily Racialism,the question we should be asking in our society is,why must there have to be a reason,for what is our own personal preferences,just so we can be labelled and slotted into someone elses point of view and open to attack if we don't subscribe to the pack prejudgment rules.

No I don't think it's Racialist to have preferences,and not be attracted to certain races.

Edited February 11, 2011 by MAJIC

[Jingthing]

If you express or hold a preference you are racist........................ridiculous

I am not saying it always is or isn't, but I think it is clear that sometimes it is IF the primary motivation is racism in a society that influences partner choice relative "desirability" socially, especially for mating. For example in the Dominican Republic they have language to describe different shades of color as most people there have some or a lot of African blood. (The same distinctions can sometimes be found in the US, with light skinned blacks being described as "high yellow" by other black people). In the DR, it is considered more desirable to be lighter and being lighter means "white privilege" in their culture. So if a Dominican feels more attraction to lighter skinned people, you have to wonder where that is coming from. There is somewhat similar thing going on in Thai culture with lighter skin. I am not saying this is the only scenario for racism in partner attraction, but it is the most blatant one that comes to my mind.

Regarding the OP, I think racism remains a major problem in today's world and it still leads to poverty, misery, and early death for many millions (billions?) of people, and also undeserved privilege for other groups (including me). I guess most people in the free benefits group don't want to rock the boat.

Edited February 11, 2011 by Jingthing

[473geo]

If you express or hold a preference you are racist........................ridiculous

I am not saying it always is or isn't, but I think it is clear that sometimes it is IF the primary motivation is racism in a society that influences partner choice relative "desirability" socially, especially for mating. For example in the Dominican Republic they have language to describe different shades of color as most people there have some or a lot of African blood. (The same distinctions can sometimes be found in the US, with light skinned blacks being described as "high yellow" by other black people). In the DR, it is considered more desirable to be lighter and being lighter means "white privilege" in their culture. So if a Dominican feels more attraction to lighter skinned people, you have to wonder where that is coming from. There is somewhat similar thing going on in Thai culture with lighter skin. I am not saying this is the only scenario for racism in partner attraction, but it is the most blatant one that comes to my mind.

Regarding the OP, I think racism remains a major problem in today's world and it still leads to poverty, misery, and early death for many millions (billions?) of people, and also undeserved privilege for other groups (including me). I guess most people in the free benefits group don't want to rock the boat.

I would suggest the racist may suppress their natural attraction to be seen to be taking the 'correct' partner, thus their preference is not racist, the act of suppression is.

[ELCata]

Terminology for this thread, I tend to accept the premise of the show that race doesn't really exist but in our own minds, but for convenience sake I will use the word race as generally accepted, even though it is indeed a socially constructed illusion. You should too I reckon or it would be impossible to talk about the topic.

I almost forgot to answer your question in the OP.

The short answer is yes. The long answer is yeeeees.

However, since you insist on using a word that is meaningless, or in your opinion 'socially constructed', how can we continue the discussion by using the word 'race' as a generally accepted term, when the term is not generally accepted, or indeed defined? Nationality has the strictest definition, colour less so & I don't know what creed is; except someone who died in Rocky IV.

Implicit in your question is the difference between positive & negative discrimination. If I like a bit of black ass (pussy) am I racist? If my ex wife ran off with a black man because he had a big cock, is she racist?

You should examine your premise instead of starting with a conclusion.

Edited February 11, 2011 by ElCata

[Jingthing]

We use it because many societies in the world, including Thailand, including my home country the USA, are highly racialized. While race might not exist in anthropology it does exist in our societies and our brains. So in that sense it is very, very real.

OK, here goes, personally I am very attracted to Latinos but not so attracted to dark skinned people (Africans or dark skinned Thais). I can't imagine how the attraction to Latinos could be related to racism, but I wonder if my lesser attraction to black people was influenced by growing up in a racist society, or if its simply an unknowable in origin hard wired sexual response like my preference for people who aren't too thin.

Edited February 11, 2011 by Jingthing

[ELCata]

We use it because many societies in the world, including Thailand, including my home country the USA, are highly racialized. While race might not exist in anthropology it does exist in our societies and our brains. So in that sense it is very, very real.

OK. We use the term 'race' because countries are 'racialised', circular motions there; race does not exist, but it is (very very) real.

OK, here goes, personally I am very attracted to Latinos...

Very interesting, but if you just wanted a discussion about which race is the hottest, why cloud it with a pseudo-intellectual cover story?

[Jingthing]

If people think it exists and societies and individuals make decisions based on their perception of race, then race is a real thing in people's lives. I really don't see the problem in getting this concept. We see race. People who say they don't are liars.

The scientific argument that race doesn't exist is a separate thing to that. I think it is helpful for people to learn about the science part, because I think if more people learned that, the negative effects of racism might be reduced, and people would also be more sympathetic to the people who are suffering from racism.

Don't be silly either. If you want to discuss which race is the hottest, go ahead, but that's clearly not the intention here. The issue was about whether racism has anything to do with which races we personally find hot or not hot. Those are not the same questions.

Edited February 11, 2011 by Jingthing

[ELCata]

If people think it exists and societies and individuals make decisions based on their perception of race, then race is a real thing in people's lives. I really don't see the problem in getting this concept.

I'll assume that it's Friday night where you are & you've had a few shandy's

If individuals, (pressure) groups & politicians believe that a concept exists, it does not necessarily follow that it exists; no wonder the general populous is a bit 'tick 'innit.

We see race. People who say they don't are liars.

We SEE race? What about language? What about the smooth silky touch of a young Surin lady's skin?

When I was a young lad, my grandmother used to send me to the 'nigger shop' (actually 'paki shop') for 10 fags. Now, there's at least 2 things wrong with that, but I used to notice the smell as soon as I went into the shop. I don't notice the smell any more because I'm a regular curry muncher, but shouldn't SMELL be incorporated into the racial definition?

The scientific argument that race doesn't exist is a separate thing to that.

So what is your argument, Mr Humanities?:jap:

[Jingthing]

Thanks for sharing, El Cata. I think we're done.

Next ...

[endure]

Does this mean I'm not allowed to be a Rice Queen any more?

[Jingthing]

Does this mean I'm not allowed to be a Rice Queen any more?

How does being a rice queen make you feel?

[endure]

Does this mean I'm not allowed to be a Rice Queen any more?

How does being a rice queen make you feel?

Horny

[ELCata]

Thanks for sharing, El Cata. I think we're done.

Next ...

Next...Hopefully someone with a sense of humour & an ability to discuss a subject in some depth will respond.

You introduced the subject well, but went downhill from there.

Black bums are best.

[ELCata]

They're all pink on the inside anyway.

Let's have a laugh.

[mca]

Does this mean I'm not allowed to be a Rice Queen any more?

You as well endure mate? Bloody hell I never knew. I tell you this forum is gayer than Santa's toy workshop at the North Pole!

( and that is in no way meant to be a slur)

Edited February 11, 2011 by mca