Exodus Of Western Expats From Pattaya

[tropo]

Six years is not enough to spot the trend many of us are talking about. Yes, the OP's time frame should be 25 years and not 7.

As I said before, unless you have 20 or more years of experience here, you really can't understand what has been lost. And a lot of good things have been lost, like it or not.

As I said, no changes have been noticed in 6 years. The OP was talking about major change in 7 years. The reason why I added this comment should be obvious.

I don't need to do 20 years here to know that things have changed. 35 years ago it was a fishing village so it's pretty obvious things have changed a lot with time, no?

Anyway, there's also some old foggies reminiscing about yesteryear in some city or tourist location around the world. It will never change. And then someone comes along "bragging" about how long they have been there and how much they know compared to others who haven't done as much time.

I hope I don't end up doing 20 years here.

Edited February 17, 2011 by tropo

[jori]

I hope I don't end up doing 20 years here.

I hope you do,might bump into you at the next port of call !! :jap:

[rott]

Mobi, if there is any more paedophilia or child sex-trafficking going on in Pattaya than anywhere else in the world, then you are the first person I know of who is in on it. News to me and all my friends. (No I don't mean we are in on what goes on in Pattaya, I meant it probably happens to some extent everywhere and I don't suppose Pattaya is any worse than anywhere else.)

By the way, these beach resorts in Vietnam which resemble the Pattaya of old, do you have any names, because again you know more than me. I was actually surprised at the lack of anything resembling Pattaya in Vietnam, though did suspect I was missing something.

Edited February 17, 2011 by rott

[tropo]

Mobi, if there is any more paedophilia or child sex-trafficking going on in Pattaya than anywhere else in the world, then you are the first person I know of who is in on it. News to me and all my friends. (No I don't mean we are in on what goes on in Pattaya, I meant it probably happens to some extent everywhere and I don't suppose Pattaya is any worse than anywhere else.)

By the way, these beach resorts in Vietnam which resemble the Pattaya of old, do you have any names, because again you know more than me. I was actually surprised at the lack of anything resembling Pattaya in Vietnam, though did suspect I was missing something.

There must be hundreds of places in SEA which resemble Pattaya of the early 70's.

[Ulysses G.]

The same will eventually happen in Pattaya - plenty of sex available, but discretely tucked away from the main tourist areas.

It seems that those Spanky's Brownies © have made it down to Pattaya.

[Mobi]

Mobi, if there is any more paedophilia or child sex-trafficking going on in Pattaya than anywhere else in the world, then you are the first person I know of who is in on it. News to me and all my friends. (No I don't mean we are in on what goes on in Pattaya, I meant it probably happens to some extent everywhere and I don't suppose Pattaya is any worse than anywhere else.)

By the way, these beach resorts in Vietnam which resemble the Pattaya of old, do you have any names, because again you know more than me. I was actually surprised at the lack of anything resembling Pattaya in Vietnam, though did suspect I was missing something.

I really don’t wish to turn this thread into a discussion on paedophile activities in Pattaya but I am surprised that you are not aware that such activities are still rife in our beloved city. It is something that is not often written about because it is quite dangerous to lift your head too much above the parapet on this particular subject.

Suffice to say, it is indeed one of the worst blights on the city, and as with all crime, it is controlled by the police. Farang paedophiles with deep pockets still live here with impunity and it is only when they run short of cash, or the cops put the prices up and they refuse to pay that you read about them being arrested in the press. (Or maybe the police needed a public scapegoat or the cops making the arrest are from a different region and/or were not included in the payoff …)

Yet even those who are arrested rarely spend much time in jail. They may have been temporarily short of cash to pay off the cops, but within a short while they are able to borrow money from friends or family and are soon back home in their beachside condos. How many times have you read about a man being arrested and learned that he has had a long record of previous arrests? And what about the Brit the other day who had his visa revoked? He had been a known by the police as a paedophile for years. Why did it take so long to kick him out? How many kids had he scarred for life during the intervening period?

If you doubt what I tell you then I can only suggest that you pay a visit to the Mercy mission whose ‘mission’ in life is specifically to rescue these kids from the slums of Pattaya. When you gain the carers’ trust, you will hear accounts about kids as young as 2 or 3 being ‘sold’ to paedophiles by their own mothers. I met many kids there who bore the terrible, mental scars of having been abused by paedophiles - over and over again. The terrible thing is that a mother can turn up at the mission at any time and request the return of her child. She will probably be short of money to feed her drug habit and she must sell the kid once again. The Mission can do nothing to stop this – if they tried to do anything or complain to the authorities they would probably be dead by now. Paedophiles are the most protected species in this city. So the mission just does what it can and keeps its mouth shut.

This is the sordid underbelly of our city that I for one would dearly love to be obliterated. It can’t come soon enough.

As for Vietnam, well it is has a growing reputation as a place for expat retirees and has been discussed in these forums from time to time. The most famous or should I say ‘infamous’ retiree was one Gary Glitter, (sorry, here we go again) who settled in Ba Ria- Vung Tau Province, which is a large tourist center. The area has over 100km of coastline with many unspoilt, sandy beaches, as well as many lakes and thermal springs. Of course it will never be another ‘sin city, but for those looking for a tropical paradise where the cost of living is low and the pace and style of life is distinctly of the 3rd world variety, then it may well appeal to those who wish to move on from Pattaya.

[Darrel]

Really?? Been coming to 'interesting' and 'raw' Pattaya for over 30 years but not sleezing at all?? Please.........

Haha. Perhaps I should have said "participate any more". Compared to the past the modern Pattaya sleaze seems not very tempting, rather expensive, probably contaminated. And I'm getting old. So these days I get my spice from Som Tam instead.

[Jingthing]

There is no visa option for retirees in Vietnam so please don't talk up something that doesn't exist. Cambodia, yes, Vietnam, no.

Edited February 17, 2011 by Jingthing

[Mobi]

There is no visa option for retirees in Vietnam so please don't talk up something that doesn't exist. Cambodia, yes, Vietnam, no.

I thought we were having a nice friendly little discussion, and I even went out my way to be polite to you yet here you come, ready to jump on someone at the first opportunity with your uncivil retorts.

Living in Thailand certainly doesn't seem to have blessed you with the gift of good manners.

I admit I know little about Vietnam, but I did look into it as a possible retirement spot a few years ago and found that there is indeed a small community of expats living there. Glitter owned a house there and had been living there for quite a while before he was arrested on paedophile charges.

I take you at your word that they don't issue retirement visas. So what? There's more than one way to skin a cat. there are plenty of retirees in Thailand who don't have retirement visas either. I am sure there are other, 'non immigrant' or tourist type visas that are available for expats to use , much the same as they do here and it costs very little to cross the land border into Cambodia, or even fly to Bangkok to renew such visas.

But you could have enlightened us in a nice polite way on the visa situation as you understand it without resorting to belligerent, hectoring language.

Who the hell do you think you are and why oh why do you have to be so aggressive? What in God's name is wrong with you????

[tropo]

Really?? Been coming to 'interesting' and 'raw' Pattaya for over 30 years but not sleezing at all?? Please.........

Haha. Perhaps I should have said "participate any more". Compared to the past the modern Pattaya sleaze seems not very tempting, rather expensive, probably contaminated. And I'm getting old. So these days I get my spice from Som Tam instead.

Everything takes on a different look after time, even if looks exactly the same. I'm sure boredom with the familiar sends a lot of expats away after time.

Thai girls are angels when guys first arrive and become devils by the time they are ready to leave.

[tropo]

Who the hell do you think you are and why oh why do you have to be so aggressive? What in God's name is wrong with you????

Forgive him. He spends far too long on the Thaivisa forum - he's a true addict. This can alter one's personality in a bad way.

[rott]

Right Mobi, so you reckon Vung Tau is worth a look, I only did between Saigon/HCM and Hue, Vung Tau is the other direction I think.

Vietnam seemed OK plus I believe they've recently devalued 7% or so, but I didn't see anything resembling a barfine system or even any available looking ladies. Didn't really go looking too hard to be honest. And as your mate Jingo points out, long term visas could be a problem.

[Mobi]

Who the hell do you think you are and why oh why do you have to be so aggressive? What in God's name is wrong with you????

Forgive him. He spends far too long on the Thaivisa forum - he's a true addict. This can alter one's personality in a bad way.

I used to think I was bit of an addict one day when I suddenly found that I had made over 5,000 posts. Ever since I have only dipped in now and then as the mood takes me. I realised that there is a world out there that isn't full of irascible, argumentative internet forum geeks...

But 22,700!! Wowee, it's surprising he even has time to sleep....

'Lord forgive him (JT) for he knows not what he doeth....'

[Jingthing]

I don't see how my post was so rude, and I also don't see Gary Glitter, who spent much of his time in Vietnam in PRISON, as a role model. To repeat, there is no retirement visa option for Vietnam and there is no easy loophole like there is in Cambodia. If anyone can prove me wrong about Vietnam, I and many others would be very happy to hear about it.

[Mobi]

Right Mobi, so you reckon Vung Tau is worth a look, I only did between Saigon/HCM and Hue, Vung Tau is the other direction I think.

Vietnam seemed OK plus I believe they've recently devalued 7% or so, but I didn't see anything resembling a barfine system or even any available looking ladies. Didn't really go looking too hard to be honest. And as your mate Jingo points out, long term visas could be a problem.

I reckon its worth a bit of research. If you check the internet forums and other web sites you can find out about farangs who live there and what they think of the place.

There is no doubt that it would be much cheaper than Thailand and generally far less developed. The internet would be much worse than here and it is censored. Don't forget that Vietnam is a communist country and even though in many ways they have embraced capitalism, the 'party' pervades every aspect of life and 'big brother is always watching.

The girls are gorgeous, but the bar girl scene (as per Thailand) is virtually non-existent. I would imagine finding a 'live-in' or a wife could be quite a challenge. Not impossible, but definitely a challenge.

I certainly understand that some of the coastal resorts are worth a visit.

Another plus is that in spite of their colonial history and the terrible war with America, the young Vietnamese are very friendly and pro -western and are happy to be magnanimous to their defeated foes.

In case you are wondering, yes I have been there briefly, but much of my information comes from an old friend who has just spent a year living there. Next time we speak I'll ask him about the pros and cos of living on the coast and also about visas.

But meanwhile I am sure there is plenty of info out there if you do a bit of Googling.

Good luck.

[Mobi]

I don't see how my post was so rude, and I also don't see Gary Glitter, who spent much of his time in Vietnam in PRISON, as a role model. To repeat, there is no retirement visa option for Vietnam and there is no easy loophole like there is in Cambodia. If anyone can prove me wrong about Vietnam, I and many others would be very happy to hear about it.

That's because you spend too much time on Thai Visa and have no proper life to understand how to inter react properly with people you are chatting to on the internet.

You also don't bother to read before you respond or you wouldn't accuse me of saying Glitter was a 'role model'.

What a deliberate and vindictive distortion of what I wrote, especially so, considering that in this very thread, barely an hour or so ago, I wrote a long piece abhorring the existence of paedophiles who operate in this region.

I mentioned that Glitter lived quite along time in Vietnam and even owned a house there BEFORE he was put in prison, to both demonstrate the fact that foreigners do live in Vietnam and also to reinforce my concern about paedophiles who are attracted to the region. But no doubt that went completely over the top of your '22,700 post addled' brain.....

[Jingthing]

Thanks for sharing, I hope you feel better now.

Next ...

[tropo]

Who the hell do you think you are and why oh why do you have to be so aggressive? What in God's name is wrong with you????

Forgive him. He spends far too long on the Thaivisa forum - he's a true addict. This can alter one's personality in a bad way.

I used to think I was bit of an addict one day when I suddenly found that I had made over 5,000 posts. Ever since I have only dipped in now and then as the mood takes me. I realised that there is a world out there that isn't full of irascible, argumentative internet forum geeks...

But 22,700!! Wowee, it's surprising he even has time to sleep....

'Lord forgive him (JT) for he knows not what he doeth....'

I too was addicted. I realised it and dealt with it. Even asked for a voluntary ban. ...and that was at around the 5000 post mark too.

[chops]

The girls are gorgeous, but the bar girl scene (as per Thailand) is virtually non-existent. I would imagine finding a 'live-in' or a wife could be quite a challenge. Not impossible, but definitely a challenge.

Really? About 100x easier than it would be in the west..

http://mr-cupid.com/...nambrides1.html

[Rimmer]

Wow all that happened whilst I was asleep

But pleased we are back on topic now and have stopped all the bickering.

[Mobi]

Wow all that happened whilst I was asleep

But pleased we are back on topic now and have stopped all the bickering.

We all set our alarms for the middle of the night, then when we are sure that all the mods are safely tucked up in their beds, we come on Thai Visa and have right royal go at each other. Quite like old times....

Only joking

[Mobi]

Regarding visas for Vietnam.

A 3 months multi-entry visa is available on line. many Asians and E Europeans don't need visas.

It is more than possible that a new visa can be obtained via one of the many private visa companies without having to leave to country, by paying little 'fee'. If not, a new one can be obtained in a neighbouring country such as Cambodia or Thailand. Airfares to BKk on Air Asia are very cheap and there is always the overland bus to PP.

There is no restriction on the number of visas you can get as Vietnam welcomes foreigners.

So all in all, although retirement visas, per se, are not available, in all other respects the visa situation in Vietnam is as good , if not better than in Thailand, especially for those under 50.

What say you Mr. JT?

(If you must comment, please be civil...)

[Naam]

Who the hell do you think you are and why oh why do you have to be so aggressive? What in God's name is wrong with you????

Forgive him. He spends far too long on the Thaivisa forum - he's a true addict. This can alter one's personality in a bad way.

in defense of JT i i plead for mitigating circumstances. most probably a baht-bus driver has demanded again from him the racist double-charging princely additional sum of 5 or shocks perhaps even 10 Baht. wouldn't that upset anybody of us and cause a bad hair day?

[Awohalitsiktoli]

Six years is not enough to spot the trend many of us are talking about. Yes, the OP's time frame should be 25 years and not 7.

As I said before, unless you have 20 or more years of experience here, you really can't understand what has been lost. And a lot of good things have been lost, like it or not.

As I said, no changes have been noticed in 6 years. The OP was talking about major change in 7 years. The reason why I added this comment should be obvious.

I don't need to do 20 years here to know that things have changed. 35 years ago it was a fishing village so it's pretty obvious things have changed a lot with time, no?

Anyway, there's also some old foggies reminiscing about yesteryear in some city or tourist location around the world. It will never change. And then someone comes along "bragging" about how long they have been there and how much they know compared to others who haven't done as much time.

I hope I don't end up doing 20 years here.

But you do need experience (long term residence time in Pattaya) to understand what actually happened as opposed to what you assume happened ( the 70s fishing village to today). The fact that you did not experience the long term change is your reality. I think you should respect the views of people who did experience the change. Having a long term perspective is not "bragging," it is simply having a long term perspective. You almost seem hostile to people who have more experience than you. I have no idea why. And trying to portray people with long term perspectives as "old foggies" is bad form. Your short term perspective is just that: short term. Ignoring the long term perspective is a mistake. Believe it or not, experience/history is actually important. I suppose one way of make your short term perspective seem important/relevant is to ignore the long term perspectives of expats who are far more familiar with the changes that have taken place in the area than you are. My guess is that you were not a particularly good student of history At first I thought you liked Pattaya. But saying that you hope you do not end up "doing 20 years" in Pattaya tells me you are frustrated with the place. All that aside, I would like to hear from the "old foggies" (people who have been here at least 20 years) and know about the changes and can let us know what actually happened as opposed to myths generated by people who have no idea what they are talking about.

[Jingthing]

Note to Naam, the baht bus fare is TEN baht and has been for a number of years now. I know you think you are funny, but maybe you need some new material?

Regarding retirement in Vietnam, I read retirement literally to mean retirement, a long stay with at least a one year stay without having to do anything during that year, comparable to Cambodia (business visa) or Thailand (retirement extensions). Of course in Thailand, the ED visa is often used as a loophole but of course requires more frequent maintenance than the retirement extensions.

I STILL don't think there is anything comparable in Vietnam. People who are retiring may be OK with tourist visa games while they are checking a place out but a place won't become popular with expat retirees unless there is a long term, more stable option.

The text here implies you actually need to be a REAL INVESTOR to stay long term on their business visa and the fact they mention university regarding the education visa implies they don't have a developed ED type visa loophole system as yet.

http://www.vietnam.alloexpat.com/vietnam_information/immigration_information_vietnam.php?page=0%2C1

[Mobi]

Note to JT

Your convoluted response to my information on visas only goes to renforce my contention that your earlier post wasn't only rude, but misleading.

And you talk about ED visa loopholes... yet choose to ignore my information that it is more than likely that visas can be renewed in V'nam without the need to leave the country.

It really is 6 of one and half a dozen of the other, yet the way you write about it, anyone would think that living permanently in Vietnam is virtually impossible (despite the fact that thousands already live there), but living here is just a 'walk in the park'.

Ask all those who have been refused visas and have been kicked out how easy it is to stay here. At least there is no 'monetary requirement' for a visa in Vietnam.

Anyway, I'm tired of all this.

Why don't you go back to discussing meter taxis as you are obviously have no desire to re-open the Baht bus debate?

[Jingthing]

This is personal for you Mobi for whatever reason, but I really don't care about you either way, and I won't be playing into your trying to start a feud game except to reply about visas. Perhaps the dude with "too many posts" is simply too tempting a target for some personalities.

I completely stand by my assertion that Thailand and Cambodia are much easier nuts to crack for long term stayers than Vietnam and I sincerely believe you haven't proven otherwise. My original impression about this came via a personal email communication with the owner of a major Vietnam info website; I have yet to hear evidence strong enough to change my mind about this. I don't like to see people waste time and money on unrealistic goals, and retiring in Vietnam is not a reasonable option for many people (compared to Thailand, Cambodia, and the Philippines) at this time, visa-wise.

For those looking to start a legitimate BUSINESS (as opposed to a phony excuse one), I would definitely take a good look at Vietnam.

That said, anyone who has some credible info to prove otherwise, please step up. I am always happy to change my views on anything when convinced with actual evidence.

Edited February 18, 2011 by Jingthing

[Naam]

Note to Naam, the baht bus fare is TEN baht and has been for a number of years now. I know you think you are funny, but maybe you need some new material?

thanks JT. i am always grateful when somebody educates me, especially when it concerns baht bus fares. so... how much did the racist thai driver want to overcharge you? another ten Baht?

[Jingthing]

Note to Naam, the baht bus fare is TEN baht and has been for a number of years now. I know you think you are funny, but maybe you need some new material?

thanks JT. i am always grateful when somebody educates me, especially when it concerns baht bus fares. so... how much did the racist thai driver want to overcharge you? another ten Baht?

I haven't experienced any baht bus overcharging incidents in a very long time. Now it's time for you to drop this silliness, don't you think?

[Rumcabal]

I really don't wish to turn this thread into a discussion on paedophile activities in Pattaya but I am surprised that you are not aware that such activities are still rife in our beloved city. It is something that is not often written about because it is quite dangerous to lift your head too much above the parapet on this particular subject.

Suffice to say, it is indeed one of the worst blights on the city, and as with all crime, it is controlled by the police. Farang paedophiles with deep pockets still live here with impunity and it is only when they run short of cash, or the cops put the prices up and they refuse to pay that you read about them being arrested in the press. (Or maybe the police needed a public scapegoat or the cops making the arrest are from a different region and/or were not included in the payoff …)

Yet even those who are arrested rarely spend much time in jail. They may have been temporarily short of cash to pay off the cops, but within a short while they are able to borrow money from friends or family and are soon back home in their beachside condos. How many times have you read about a man being arrested and learned that he has had a long record of previous arrests? And what about the Brit the other day who had his visa revoked? He had been a known by the police as a paedophile for years. Why did it take so long to kick him out? How many kids had he scarred for life during the intervening period?

If you doubt what I tell you then I can only suggest that you pay a visit to the Mercy mission whose 'mission' in life is specifically to rescue these kids from the slums of Pattaya. When you gain the carers' trust, you will hear accounts about kids as young as 2 or 3 being 'sold' to paedophiles by their own mothers. I met many kids there who bore the terrible, mental scars of having been abused by paedophiles - over and over again. The terrible thing is that a mother can turn up at the mission at any time and request the return of her child. She will probably be short of money to feed her drug habit and she must sell the kid once again. The Mission can do nothing to stop this – if they tried to do anything or complain to the authorities they would probably be dead by now. Paedophiles are the most protected species in this city. So the mission just does what it can and keeps its mouth shut.

This is the sordid underbelly of our city that I for one would dearly love to be obliterated. It can't come soon enough.

Bingo. In my humble opinion this is the problem with staying in Pattaya long term. On holiday all you experience is smiling faces, lots of beer, beautiful women and good times. Over time as you open your eyes, look around, talk to folks and you begin to see Pattaya's dirty under belly. And it is filthy. Long term residents who claim never ever to notice pedophilia in their midst are simply choosing not to see it.