Pattaya Immigration Issue Order To Revoke Visa Of British National

[theoldgit]

Unfortunately it's not unknown for police in the UK to use, or rather misuse, immigration laws to give them time to build up a case against alleged perpetrators.

There's always a civil libertarian around when you need one.

Hypothetically, say this chap was a kiddie fiddler and he had been fiddling with your kid. Wouldn't you be a tad pissed off if he was just 'bailed' and allowed to flee to (say) Cambodia and keep on fiddling beyond the reach of law enforcement?

You don't know me from Adam, but if you did you would know I am very far removed from being a civil libertarian.

I have dealt with sex offenders throughout my career and trust me they are a very challenging group of individuals, I also have first hand experience of police attempting to abuse immigration laws when they have no evidence that would stand up in court, when these cases do get to before the judiciary abuses of processes often mean that perpetrators escape justice. Given that he appeared to be under surveillance by SOCA, in my view, he should have been detained and an application made for his extradition to the UK, if a smart arse lawyer cottons on to this he could well escape justice and then be free to travel and abuse kids.

[NanLaew]

I bet there's a few TVF members whose <deleted> started puckering reading the thread title.

Why?

[mca]

Maybe they're paranoid enough to think it could be them.

[jfchandler]

If the guy was ever actually convicted of some serious crime (and maybe he's already served his sentence and thus is no longer "wanted,") that would be one thing, and Thailand Immigration would be within their rights...

But if he's not been convicted of anything AND he's not currently wanted for anything, that's a pretty troubling approach..

Accusations are easy to make, and often made with ulterior motive around these parts... And the Thai police aren't exactly the most professional outfit in the world...

Just look at the companion news report about Thai immigration arresting and chaining to a hospital bed in the jail ward a Burmese worker who was injured on the job, even though he had a legal working permit to be here... The court yesterday ordered him freed after the police admitted they'd never bothered to check his actual immigration status.

PS - EVERYONE looks guilty to PowderPuff... no matter who or what they are...

[ELCata]

I bet there's a few TVF members whose <deleted> started puckering reading the thread title.

Why?

Hook, line, sinker, large fish & 'Guide to Fishing' authored by Mr Fishy McFish.

[ryladie99]

This guy hasn't actually been found guilty of anything.

Will have to see about this...in my personal opinion anyone who harms children should be deport no matter what ? Would you like to have an interview with a Thai Newspaper in order to support this man? May be you can change the Thai immigration to release him? Who knows?

[NanLaew]

You don't know me from Adam, but if you did you would know I am very far removed from being a civil libertarian.

I have dealt with sex offenders throughout my career and trust me they are a very challenging group of individuals, I also have first hand experience of police attempting to abuse immigration laws when they have no evidence that would stand up in court, when these cases do get to before the judiciary abuses of processes often mean that perpetrators escape justice. Given that he appeared to be under surveillance by SOCA, in my view, he should have been detained and an application made for his extradition to the UK, if a smart arse lawyer cottons on to this he could well escape justice and then be free to travel and abuse kids.

Yes, I also recall that series 8 of 'Law & Order' alluded to poorly constructed prosecutions resulting in mistrials and the gloating bad guys getting off the hook, replete with smug, backslapping defence lawyers.

In the real world, what percentage of prosecutions are dodgy due to the cops cutting corners?

At least we can agree that if SOCA was mentioned in dispatches, there's a a lot more to this deportation than meets the eye. The fact that it's even been publicised is telling enough.` There's a bigger story here and it just brings out the best in the TV sleuths to try and crack the case before the real cops do.

Also, someone else here is suggesting how one can be harrassed by authorities from your home country for something you did not do in your homeland but may have been done in a third country. I was reading a few weeks back about a seriously bad Floridian who went down a few years back for fiddling with underage Cambodian girls. He was released during interrogation by the Cambodian authorities in the presence of the US agents that had staked him out in conjunction with the local cops. He left pretty quickly for Vietnam where he was quickly arrested and extradited without any recourse to deportation formalities. When the wheels of justice need to turn, they will.

[Wavefloater]

It would be nice to get a version of this story from a real news source. Unfortunately, Pattaya One News seems nothing more than a mouthpiece for the police. Its staff appear to go where the police tell them to go and write what they're told to write. There's apparently NO investigative journalism presented by them -- simply echoing what the police want the public to hear. Along with that, it is so poorly written that we have to assume its facts must be questioned as well.

But (cautiously) assuming that the basic facts presented are true, the disturbing aspect should be that Thai Immigration has acted this way based purely on suspicion and/or information from outside sources without the person actually having a chance to defend himself. At the same time, it is their country and if they feel that a person's conduct or character is of questionable integrity, they should have the right ask one to leave. Just like if a person came into my home and did or said things to make me suspicious or worry about my safety, I would feel entitled to ask him or her to leave.

It's a tough one, but when the dust settles, it's their country and their rules, just like the USA, where the ironically named Patriot Act was enforced stripping basic constitutional freedoms from all its citizens. Many people in other countries shuttered when the Patriot Act was was passed into law, and prayed (to whoever they pray to) that the same thing would never happen in their country. My fear is that any "legal" process like the Patriot Act or one that gives people "special powers" to circumvent legal process and therefore remove the ability of one to defend themselves before being punished is extremely scary. We must be vigilant about how much freedom we are constantly losing, so whether or not you like this guy, and however you feel about the action taken by the immigration department, take some time to see and think about the bigger picture -- one that shows that we are being subjected to living more and more in what are police states where freedoms are lost.

Edited February 16, 2011 by Wavefloater

[NanLaew]

I bet there's a few TVF members whose <deleted> started puckering reading the thread title.

Why?

Hook, line, sinker, large fish & 'Guide to Fishing' authored by Mr Fishy McFish.

Are you mca?

[mca]

No that'd be me.

[NanLaew]

...

But (cautiously) assuming that the basic facts presented are true, the disturbing aspect should be that Thai Immigration has acted this way based purely on suspicion and/or information from outside sources without the person actually having a chance to defend himself. At the same time, it is their country and if they feel that a person's conduct or character is of questionable integrity, they should have the right ask one to leave. Just like if a person came into my home and did or said things to make me suspicious or worry about my safety, I would feel entitled to ask him or her to leave.

...

But the UK's SOCA isn't your typical outside source. This isn't like some nosy neighbor hinting to the local plod that the people in the house with the blue roof at the end of the street are running a card game. The 'S' stands for Serious.

The Cambodians showed Paul Gadd the door and shortly thereafter he was busted in Vietnam for what the Cambodians suspected he was up to.

Cliché I know but, where there's smoke...

[ELCata]

I bet there's a few TVF members whose <deleted> started puckering reading the thread title.

Why?

Hook, line, sinker, large fish & 'Guide to Fishing' authored by Mr Fishy McFish.

Are you mca?

Might be.

[Wavefloater]

...

But (cautiously) assuming that the basic facts presented are true, the disturbing aspect should be that Thai Immigration has acted this way based purely on suspicion and/or information from outside sources without the person actually having a chance to defend himself. At the same time, it is their country and if they feel that a person's conduct or character is of questionable integrity, they should have the right ask one to leave. Just like if a person came into my home and did or said things to make me suspicious or worry about my safety, I would feel entitled to ask him or her to leave.

...

But the UK's SOCA isn't your typical outside source. This isn't like some nosy neighbor hinting to the local plod that the people in the house with the blue roof at the end of the street are running a card game. The 'S' stands for Serious.

The Cambodians showed Paul Gadd the door and shortly thereafter he was busted in Vietnam for what the Cambodians suspected he was up to.

Cliché I know but, where there's smoke...

I understand what you're saying, but my main point is that regardless of the source of the suspicion or information, every person should have the opportunity to defend themselves. In this case, I am aware that the accused isn't being charged with anything by the Thai authorities. They are simply saying that they don't like his kind and would prefer that he leave, and that is certainly their right. But I hope you and others haven't missed the big picture that was put across in my post -- this is a scary trend happening around the world that indicates we are losing the rights that we should naturally and morally be afforded.

[PingManDan]

One down 15,000 to go

[rafish]

Don't get me wrong I have no sympathy with anybody involved in the abuse of kids, but this guy is innocent until proven guilty especially given this quote from the article " the Immigration Department made the decision to issue an order to revoke his visa and ordered an immediate deportation to UK, even though Mr. Robinson is currently not wanted in connection to any of the cases."

Why oh why do these goons insist on these stupid photo shoots don't they realise how ridiculous they look? if Robinson ever went on trial any lawyer worth his salt would use these photos to claim he couldn't get a fair trial.

Nothing personal Old Git, but your "signature photo," is all the evidence we need to convict you of being a leech!

[webfact]

Fugitive Paedophile Arrested in Pattaya

Immigration officers arrested a British paedophile (a petrol transportation ship captain) who has perpetrated several child abuse cases in various countries.

Pattaya, 15th February 2011[PDN]: At approximately 03.30 pm on Tuesday, Police Col. Shusak Phanatamphorn (Chon Buri Immigration Police Superintendent) along with Police Lt. Col. Nopphon Kuldilok and investigating officers organized the apprehension foreign child abuse offender, Mr. Roderick William Robinson (73), British nationality. The suspect’s right to stay in Thai Kingdom has been cancelled.

Pol. Col. Shusak Phanatamphorn remarked that Mr. Robinson committed numerous sexual abuse offenses on a girl on 14th February 1988 in England then escaped to stay in Australia.

Full story and pictures HERE

-- Pattaya Daily News 2010-02-16

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[ELCata]

Immigration officers arrested a British paedophile (a petrol transportation ship captain) who has perpetrated several child abuse cases in various countries.

Journalism at it's best. I'm sure that the UK tabloids would give an award for this excellent piece.

'Man arrested by Thai plod immediately diagnosed with complex mental illness'; don't hold the front page.

Good grief.

[samjaidee]

Innocent until proven guilty.

Sorry, didn't read the whole story.

Send him back to the UK immediately.

Edited February 16, 2011 by samjaidee

[ableguy]

This guy hasn't actually been found guilty of anything.

He does not have to be, under the new law if it is considered he could be a danger to Thai society then they ( immigration ) can revoke his visa, better to be safe than sorry I say. after all this guy has a track record otherwise the Brits would not have got involved it is my understanding the Brits gave the Thai police the lowdown on this serial offender. All you bone heads who disagree with this should probably have your backgrounds checked.

[ableguy]

It would be nice to get a version of this story from a real news source. Unfortunately, Pattaya One News seems nothing more than a mouthpiece for the police. Its staff appear to go where the police tell them to go and write what they're told to write. There's apparently NO investigative journalism presented by them -- simply echoing what the police want the public to hear. Along with that, it is so poorly written that we have to assume its facts must be questioned as well.

But (cautiously) assuming that the basic facts presented are true, the disturbing aspect should be that Thai Immigration has acted this way based purely on suspicion and/or information from outside sources without the person actually having a chance to defend himself. At the same time, it is their country and if they feel that a person's conduct or character is of questionable integrity, they should have the right ask one to leave. Just like if a person came into my home and did or said things to make me suspicious or worry about my safety, I would feel entitled to ask him or her to leave.

It's a tough one, but when the dust settles, it's their country and their rules, just like the USA, where the ironically named Patriot Act was enforced stripping basic constitutional freedoms from all its citizens. Many people in other countries shuttered when the Patriot Act was was passed into law, and prayed (to whoever they pray to) that the same thing would never happen in their country. My fear is that any "legal" process like the Patriot Act or one that gives people "special powers" to circumvent legal process and therefore remove the ability of one to defend themselves before being punished is extremely scary. We must be vigilant about how much freedom we are constantly losing, so whether or not you like this guy, and however you feel about the action taken by the immigration department, take some time to see and think about the bigger picture -- one that shows that we are being subjected to living more and more in what are police states where freedoms are lost.

Chid abusers have zero rights.

[Lozman]

This man has been reported to the Thai authorities by the Australian and British Police Agencies and been deported. Im pretty sure that this report has some foundation. Two seperate Police Agencies do not bring this alert for nothing. I dont want him in Australia and I know the Thais dont want him......so home he goes...Whats fairer than that? I just wish the Thais could charge him and and let those with children that are in gaol deal him some Justice. Failing that...I hope the British Police have, or are establishing a solid case for him to answer. British justice in prison can be as good as Justice anywhere.

[ginjag]

I bet there's a few TVF members whose <deleted> started puckering reading the thread title.

Why?

You may be one of the few of the members you talk about....................a sordid brain..............takes one to know one.--if you are and it excites you keep it private.......................as long as it doesn't involve kids.

[jfchandler]

The guy is being portrayed as a bad actor...to be sure...

Yet, it seems strange that none of the news reports posted here say a) he's ever been convicted of any crime, and b] there are any warrants outstanding for his arrest from any of those places from where he's supposedly fled.

With all the things he's supposedly done, it would be interesting to hear how he's managed to have no convictions or warrants outstanding.

Edited February 16, 2011 by jfchandler

[theoldgit]

Chid abusers have zero rights.

Unfortunatly they do.

But the whole point is that this guy doesn't seem to have been charged with anything yet, little known convicted.

It's a very slippery slope if we "lock em up and throw away the key" until someone has been convicted in a court of law, once a person has been found guilty then of course all bets are off.

[theoldgit]

Yes, I also recall that series 8 of 'Law & Order' alluded to poorly constructed prosecutions resulting in mistrials and the gloating bad guys getting off the hook, replete with smug, backslapping defence lawyers.

In the real world, what percentage of prosecutions are dodgy due to the cops cutting corners?

At least we can agree that if SOCA was mentioned in dispatches, there's a a lot more to this deportation than meets the eye. The fact that it's even been publicised is telling enough.` There's a bigger story here and it just brings out the best in the TV sleuths to try and crack the case before the real cops do.

Whilst we are arguing about semantics, I think we share the view that nobody should escape justice and thus putting the public at risk because of corner cutting, don't forget we can only rely on the journalistic prowess of Pattaya One to know the truth surrounding this case so I doubt if we know half the story, and that's probably how it should be.

I agree that for SOCA to be involved is probably pretty serious and I'm sure this guy should be off the streets, as you know SOCA isn't just made up of police, there are many agencies involved and quite often there are conflicting interests, though as you say it starts with the word serious so it must be.

I'm sure Law and Order dramatises the world of slick lawyers getting people of serious charges because of corner cutting or abuses of process, but trust me it happens in the real world as well and it's not just dodgy cops or errors made by the CPS either. As well as slick lawyers, sex offenders are, by their very nature, a cunning and manipulative breed they have time on their side, when they are prison they have time to trawl through law books and find some precedent that could possibly lead to a stay of their conviction, a senior judge once told me that he would like to personally go into every prison library and throw every copy of Archibald's over the prison wall.

I maintain my belief that if this guy is as dangerous as they say he should be arrested and an application made for his extradition, as it stands at the moment the Thai authorities will deport him, and they have every right to do so, but just by simply deporting him as long as he leaves Thailand he could go to any country who would let him in, though that might cause him a problem, if he was extradited then he would have to go to the country that requested his extradition.

[theoldgit]

[Nothing personal Old Git, but your "signature photo," is all the evidence we need to convict you of being a leech!

Not sure what a leech is, but I think you will agree that it's been a long time since the young lady in my avatar could be accused of being a child.

[Darrel]

The guy was "caught in a joint operation with The Special Organized Crime Agency from UK"

Ah, would that be the great British police on a foreign junket again, adding to the huge budget deficit, rather than doing something useful like clearing up the giant mess in their own backyard? Surely the "Organised Crime Agency" should be dealing with organised crime, of which there is apparently no shortage in Britain at all, rather than individual non-crime in Thailand? According to the news report this bloke isnt even actually charged with anything.

No, I know what it's all about.

has probably been promoted.

[Basil B]

I am sure the must be plenty of evidence if the SOCA did get involved.

Four cases against him, so presume that is not just allegations but plenty of evidence that could be used in a court of law.

Having his visa revoked given the allegations against him seems common sense if there was no evidence of any wrong doing in Thailand, with these allegations why wait for a crime, is not crime prevention more important?

If the allegations are true just think how many more went unreported.

Edited February 16, 2011 by Basil B

[ukrules]

They don't mention that he has any convictions, they also don't confirm that he has no convictions as it would be quite illegal for the police to disclose this information publicly. There are laws against that sort of disclosure in the UK.

There is another scenario here though, it's possible this guy was convicted and has served a sentence years ago and now he's been tracked down to Thailand or maybe someone recognised him and tipped them off about his current location. The police keep tabs on people with convictions like this for a long time. I had a relative who worked with the unit which monitored them a few years back as a temporary attachment.

I know of at least three different people who've done varying amounts of time for killing people over the years. One of them was only in his 30's after his release.

If the Thai's found out about a serious conviction like this I think that this current scenario would happen and there would be a statement saying that the person isn't wanted here or anywhere else on any 'current' warrants or words to that effect.

[Buchholz]

British pensioner wanted for child sex abuse offences seized in Thailand after 22 years on the run

A British pensioner who has been committing child sex abuse offences on the run for over 22 years has been seized in Thailand as part of an ongoing operation by the Serious Organised Crime Agency.

Thai Police acting on information from SOCA officers based in Bangkok arrested Roderick William Robinson, 73, at a terraced house in the resort of Pattaya, 100 miles east of Bangkok.

Continued here:

http://news1.capitalbay.com/news/british_pensioner_wanted_for_child.html

Daily Mail - Feb. 16, 2011

Edited February 17, 2011 by sbk
edited for fair use