Falang, 2Nd Class Citizens?

[Jingthing]

Since it doesn't seem to matter what letter is used in the middle of the Romanization of the Thai word faRang, how about these alternative spellings?

Faxang (we're high tech!)

Fakang (a bunch of poseurs!)

Fatang (obese, whale-like!)

Fadang (in today, out tomorrow!)

Fazang (a new energy drink, no doubt!)

Fabang (for the pink baht crowd!)

Edited February 17, 2011 by Jingthing

[mark45y]

clearly anyone saying thai women are above average have never visited some of the world's biggest cities

And those with a yellow fever have never visited tokyo/taipei/seoul

even the less attractive women there are far better looking than the average goofy faces we see here (that looks super scary when you remove the 150baht of makeup that is put on everyday) but then again most of the guys making the calls are old or ugly and being delusional to themselves. Not saying that its not better than your hand back home or a fatty, but the thai women are no where near the the top of any region of the world in terms of average look, only in availability to the lower quality of white males and to the old men who want to have some fun.

I lived in Taipei. I ran a restaurant there. Taiwanese, Chinese and Mongolian employees. OK but nothing to write home about.

Was stationed at Camp Zama for a while. Sorry Japanese women are bowlegged and have short legs relative to their body length. And they make funny noises during *** that I find very distracting. Japanese men like Thai women better too but not for marriage partners because they are hung up on ethnocentrism.

Korean women have flat faces and odd body shapes I used to work with a lot of Korean girl bands.

Thai women are different because they have Asian bodies that are proportionate to Western women's bodies only smaller.

I may have given the impression that I liked to be with beautiful Thai women and that is not true. I realize most Thais consider me a second class citizen. I will give all the beautiful women to Thai men. They are snotty anyway. Much like beautiful women of any culture. The real treasure of Thailand are the not beautiful women but the 2nd rate women available to us 2nd class citizens.

I think most of us could agree within reason about a 1 and a 5 and a 10 in almost any country. Now pay attention because this is important. In North America or the UK ask any woman between 2 and 10 if they are fat and ugly. With me so far? OK. No woman in the UK or US between 2 and 10 is going to tell you she is fat and ugly. I am taking this slow because I realize not everyone posting on this thread is over 12 years of age.

Now ask Thai women under an 8 if they are fat and ugly. 90% between an 2 and 8 will tell you they are fat and ugly. This is what makes Thailand so great. In the US a 5 thinks she is beautiful. In Thailand a 5 thinks she is fat and ugly. In the US this is called female empowerment in Thailand this is called psychotic.

[jimbeam1]

clearly anyone saying thai women are above average have never visited some of the world's biggest cities

And those with a yellow fever have never visited tokyo/taipei/seoul

even the less attractive women there are far better looking than the average goofy faces we see here (that looks super scary when you remove the 150baht of makeup that is put on everyday) but then again most of the guys making the calls are old or ugly and being delusional to themselves. Not saying that its not better than your hand back home or a fatty, but the thai women are no where near the the top of any region of the world in terms of average look, only in availability to the lower quality of white males and to the old men who want to have some fun.

jb1

[mstribling]

But mrmakmak- the question wasn't which country has the most beautiful women.

The question was: Why in a land of beautiful women. You are checking out what Western men are wearing?

And being catty about?

[jimbeam1]

clearly anyone saying thai women are above average have never visited some of the world's biggest cities

And those with a yellow fever have never visited tokyo/taipei/seoul

even the less attractive women there are far better looking than the average goofy faces we see here (that looks super scary when you remove the 150baht of makeup that is put on everyday) but then again most of the guys making the calls are old or ugly and being delusional to themselves. Not saying that its not better than your hand back home or a fatty, but the thai women are no where near the the top of any region of the world in terms of average look, only in availability to the lower quality of white males and to the old men who want to have some fun.

I lived in Taipei. I ran a restaurant there. Taiwanese, Chinese and Mongolian employees. OK but nothing to write home about.

Was stationed at Camp Zama for a while. Sorry Japanese women are bowlegged and have short legs relative to their body length. And they make funny noises during *** that I find very distracting. Japanese men like Thai women better too but not for marriage partners because they are hung up on ethnocentrism.

Korean women have flat faces and odd body shapes I used to work with a lot of Korean girl bands.

Thai women are different because they have Asian bodies that are proportionate to Western women's bodies only smaller.

I may have given the impression that I liked to be with beautiful Thai women and that is not true. I realize most Thais consider me a second class citizen. I will give all the beautiful women to Thai men. They are snotty anyway. Much like beautiful women of any culture. The real treasure of Thailand are the not beautiful women but the 2nd rate women available to us 2nd class citizens.

I think most of us could agree within reason about a 1 and a 5 and a 10 in almost any country. Now pay attention because this is important. In North America or the UK ask any woman between 2 and 10 if they are fat and ugly. With me so far? OK. No woman in the UK or US between 2 and 10 is going to tell you she is fat and ugly. I am taking this slow because I realize not everyone posting on this thread is over 12 years of age.

Now ask Thai women under an 8 if they are fat and ugly. 90% between an 2 and 8 will tell you they are fat and ugly. This is what makes Thailand so great. In the US a 5 thinks she is beautiful. In Thailand a 5 thinks she is fat and ugly. In the US this is called female empowerment in Thailand this is called psychotic.

Yes and that should just about rap the show up for tonight folks. Well said

jb1

[F1fanatic]

clearly anyone saying thai women are above average have never visited some of the world's biggest cities

And those with a yellow fever have never visited tokyo/taipei/seoul

even the less attractive women there are far better looking than the average goofy faces we see here (that looks super scary when you remove the 150baht of makeup that is put on everyday) but then again most of the guys making the calls are old or ugly and being delusional to themselves. Not saying that its not better than your hand back home or a fatty, but the thai women are no where near the the top of any region of the world in terms of average look, only in availability to the lower quality of white males and to the old men who want to have some fun.

I lived in Taipei. I ran a restaurant there. Taiwanese, Chinese and Mongolian employees. OK but nothing to write home about.

Was stationed at Camp Zama for a while. Sorry Japanese women are bowlegged and have short legs relative to their body length. And they make funny noises during *** that I find very distracting. Japanese men like Thai women better too but not for marriage partners because they are hung up on ethnocentrism.

Korean women have flat faces and odd body shapes I used to work with a lot of Korean girl bands.

Thai women are different because they have Asian bodies that are proportionate to Western women's bodies only smaller.

I may have given the impression that I liked to be with beautiful Thai women and that is not true. I realize most Thais consider me a second class citizen. I will give all the beautiful women to Thai men. They are snotty anyway. Much like beautiful women of any culture. The real treasure of Thailand are the not beautiful women but the 2nd rate women available to us 2nd class citizens.

I think most of us could agree within reason about a 1 and a 5 and a 10 in almost any country. Now pay attention because this is important. In North America or the UK ask any woman between 2 and 10 if they are fat and ugly. With me so far? OK. No woman in the UK or US between 2 and 10 is going to tell you she is fat and ugly. I am taking this slow because I realize not everyone posting on this thread is over 12 years of age.

Now ask Thai women under an 8 if they are fat and ugly. 90% between an 2 and 8 will tell you they are fat and ugly. This is what makes Thailand so great. In the US a 5 thinks she is beautiful. In Thailand a 5 thinks she is fat and ugly. In the US this is called female empowerment in Thailand this is called psychotic.

And what height is the average Western woman? And what height is the average Thai woman?

Its obviously going to come as a shock for you to learn that someone who's at least 6 inches taller is going to have a bigger dress size .

Agree though, that most young Thais (men and women alike) are generally 'wiry'.

[richard_smith237]

Falang, 2Nd Class Citizens?

It's simply a matter of how you carry yourself here isn't it ?

Behave well and respectfully and you will be treated accordingly.

Wear beer stained T-shirts, smell and prop up a bar all day and you will be treated accordingly.

Many foreigners in Thailand that I know of receive no more or no less respect from the Thai's than they would in their home countries, they expect no more or no less.

I for one however find that in general life here 90% of the time I get treated with equal indifference to a Thai, which is the normal scenario as I hardly expect a shop assistant to welcome me with adorning respect just because I'm not Thai. Also fairly regularly I might get treated more positively than a Thai might in a similar situation. 10% of the time I might find someone who is down right difficult - either this person doesn't like foreigners or is like this with anyone.

So, are considered 2nd Class citizens in Thailand ? IMO no, I really don't think the majority of Thai's care or even think about this subject one way or another. However, I feel that other 'non-white' nationalities sometimes get a less than 'on par' treatment in Thailand.

[rizla]

I dont see myself in thailand as being 2nd class (me falang too).....YES many thais may view us as second class, but you know, i know And they know really inside that this is not the case.....Class is not a money thing or what you have in life.....IT IS YOUR EDUCATION that sets you aside and they know that we have had on most occasions a far better education in the west than they could hope for here in normal situations......looking on us as second class is only a cover up of their own insecurity....end of.

[Jingthing]

It's a matter of foreigners not being able to own land. It's a case of the shockingly small number of westerners who successfully become Thai citizens vs. Thais who become citizens in western countries. It's not a matter of being second class citizens. As mentioned before, you have to be some kind of citizen to be a second class citizen. In general, westerners are significantly LESS than second class citizens in Thailand. Please, don't delude yourselves, it's not flattering.

[fredtitmus]

The other day i was talking to a falang bar owner about thai/falang relations and he said the thai's look at us like we look at the muslim community in our own country and that we are 2nd class citizens

What kind of bar and where is it? Might have something to do with how he is treated

Its just a bar in khon kaen,in my opinion he feels like this because he is around foriegners all day and that CAN create an us against them attitude.

Mr Stribling: Thank you for explaining the 2nd class citizens,it is just a term we use.

[murrinman]

if you bowled like your name first class all the way

[fredtitmus]

Falang, 2Nd Class Citizens?

It's simply a matter of how you carry yourself here isn't it ?

Behave well and respectfully and you will be treated accordingly.

Wear beer stained T-shirts, smell and prop up a bar all day and you will be treated accordingly.

Many foreigners in Thailand that I know of receive no more or no less respect from the Thai's than they would in their home countries, they expect no more or no less.

I for one however find that in general life here 90% of the time I get treated with equal indifference to a Thai, which is the normal scenario as I hardly expect a shop assistant to welcome me with adorning respect just because I'm not Thai. Also fairly regularly I might get treated more positively than a Thai might in a similar situation. 10% of the time I might find someone who is down right difficult - either this person doesn't like foreigners or is like this with anyone.

So, are considered 2nd Class citizens in Thailand ? IMO no, I really don't think the majority of Thai's care or even think about this subject one way or another. However, I feel that other 'non-white' nationalities sometimes get a less than 'on par' treatment in Thailand.

Thankyou richard for answering the question and sticking to the point and i tend to agree with you,a majority of the time people are friendly and personally i find the men more friendly than the women(no, not that sort of friendly!!),which i find unbelievable considering we invade their country and shag their women.

My view has always been if someone wants to live in my country of origin whatever colour,religion they must learn the language,culture and intergrate themselves into the community and i would treat them just the same as anyone else,i dont intend to be a hypocrite so im doing the exact thing here and i think people appreciate it.I dont spend too much time in the falang bars,just saturday night for the football and then im off to my fav thai bar but i agree if you prop up the bar all day you will cut yourself off from thai's and to me this is whats happening in pattaya.

[WhingeingMoaners]

A lot of Farangs seem to have a lofty opinion about themselves. Most locals don't think of you people as second class citizens. In fact, they consider many farangs as cattle class people.

[Jingthing]

A lot of Farangs seem to have a lofty opinion about themselves. Most locals don't think of you people as second class citizens. In fact, they consider many farangs as cattle class people.

Closer to the truth if you lose the people part of that.

[richard_smith237]

The other day i was talking to a falang bar owner about thai/falang relations and he said the thai's look at us like we look at the muslim community in our own country and that we are 2nd class citizens

What kind of bar and where is it? Might have something to do with how he is treated

Its just a bar in khon kaen,in my opinion he feels like this because he is around foriegners all day and that CAN create an us against them attitude.

Mr Stribling: Thank you for explaining the 2nd class citizens,it is just a term we use.

I was in Khon Kaen the other week. Having never been there before my wife and I pottered around looking for a reasonable place to have a few drinks. There were a number of bars around but most seemed to be the 'Westerner with Girls' hanging around type of bar.

I can understand why people might be view these bars in a negative light when such places appear to cater only for westerners.

We found the Vintage bar / pub and this suited us, and in comparison to the other bars I saw I was the only westerner there - We received excellent treatment and a few people around us clocked up friendly conversation. I can see how this may not be attractive to many westerners who prefer to sit at the bar and chat with bar buddies or a friendly female voice. But there may be a difference in how Thai's perceive these differing locations and public image the patrons represent.

If all I did was hang around with Westerners I don't imagine I'd have much opportunity to endear myself to those Thai's who might otherwise be around me.

[mark45y]

But mrmakmak- the question wasn't which country has the most beautiful women.

The question was: Why in a land of beautiful women. You are checking out what Western men are wearing?

And being catty about?

When you walk into a house and see a pastel pink kitchen, you think to yourself. What kind of dam_n retard would do this to himself? dam_n visual polution

When most people see a farang walking with his brown princess and wearing 50baht cargo shorts and variety of cheap tshirt or shirts from tesco with a huge print of a horse or whatever else ugly they have that month, they want to puke as much.

Maybe you should change your name to MR. Martha Stewart.

[GreenSnapper]

Taipei(i have never seen one of them naked but their face and their nice legs are enough for me), Japanese(face again),

This was a good one, mate. Never seen them naked..... you must really be an expert...

[SGD]

A lot of non Thais here don't seem to mind the very derogative slur the Thais use to describe westerners and have gone so far over to the Thai side that they themselves use this degrading word to describe themselves, however they spell it.

They must have no need of brown shoe polish.

[Jingthing]

A lot of non Thais here don't seem to mind the very derogative slur the Thais use to describe westerners and have gone so far over to the Thai side that they themselves use this degrading word to describe themselves, however they spell it.

They must have no need of brown shoe polish.

A lot of us agree we should not use it (even though there is no choice but to tolerate it from Thais) but trust me, you are pissing against the wind on that one.

[MJP]

It's a matter of foreigners not being able to own land. It's a case of the shockingly small number of westerners who successfully become Thai citizens vs. Thais who become citizens in western countries. It's not a matter of being second class citizens. As mentioned before, you have to be some kind of citizen to be a second class citizen. In general, westerners are significantly LESS than second class citizens in Thailand. Please, don't delude yourselves, it's not flattering.

Yup.

First class visitors though. Well, some anyway.

You're a first class visitor JT, so's everyone else here. That said, I've seen an awful lot of 3rd and absolutely no class whatsoever visitors in Thailand and I know that's why it's difficult for the rest to settle in.

MrMakMak and W. Moaners esq. make valid points.

Want someone to blame? Let's first look to the behavior of many of our own countrymen (US/UK/Euro/Aus etc) when they're visitors in Thailand.

That said, Asia on the whole is woefully elitist, nationalistic and protectionist. Not that I honestly give a $%&*!

[oshoshitzu]

Very simplistic viewpoint but highly inaccurate as westerners in Thailand are merely tolerated as long as they have money whereas the west allows foreigners to live in their countries with rights akin to those of home grown nationals. Thailand offers nothing.

You may be right, but I think it's important to remember that Thailand does not = The West. And that's exactly why a lot of people seem to come to Thailand. A lot of people on these forums talk about how they are sick of all the government involvement, rules, and oversight in the West. They like they can do what they want over here in Thailand, and nobody bothers them or gets too involved in their business. If they want to come to Thailand to escape the "oppression" of the West, then they really can't expect Thailand to offer the same things as the West, such as in the case of immigrants' rights. There's always a trade-off, and for most westerners, living in Thailand is a choice.

There is far more oppression in Thailand than the West. You certainly cannot do what you like in Thailand.

[mca]

I was in Khon Kaen the other week. Having never been there before my wife and I pottered around looking for a reasonable place to have a few drinks. There were a number of bars around but most seemed to be the 'Westerner with Girls' hanging around type of bar.

I can understand why people might be view these bars in a negative light when such places appear to cater only for westerners.

We found the Vintage bar / pub and this suited us, and in comparison to the other bars I saw I was the only westerner there - We received excellent treatment and a few people around us clocked up friendly conversation. I can see how this may not be attractive to many westerners who prefer to sit at the bar and chat with bar buddies or a friendly female voice. But there may be a difference in how Thai's perceive these differing locations and public image the patrons represent.

If all I did was hang around with Westerners I don't imagine I'd have much opportunity to endear myself to those Thai's who might otherwise be around me.

Falang, 2Nd Class Citizens?

It's simply a matter of how you carry yourself here isn't it ?

Behave well and respectfully and you will be treated accordingly.

Wear beer stained T-shirts, smell and prop up a bar all day and you will be treated accordingly.

Many foreigners in Thailand that I know of receive no more or no less respect from the Thai's than they would in their home countries, they expect no more or no less.

I for one however find that in general life here 90% of the time I get treated with equal indifference to a Thai, which is the normal scenario as I hardly expect a shop assistant to welcome me with adorning respect just because I'm not Thai. Also fairly regularly I might get treated more positively than a Thai might in a similar situation. 10% of the time I might find someone who is down right difficult - either this person doesn't like foreigners or is like this with anyone.

So, are considered 2nd Class citizens in Thailand ? IMO no, I really don't think the majority of Thai's care or even think about this subject one way or another.

Thanks Richard. Saved me the bother of typing.

[samran]

Falang, 2Nd Class Citizens?

It's simply a matter of how you carry yourself here isn't it ?

Behave well and respectfully and you will be treated accordingly.

Wear beer stained T-shirts, smell and prop up a bar all day and you will be treated accordingly.

Many foreigners in Thailand that I know of receive no more or no less respect from the Thai's than they would in their home countries, they expect no more or no less.

I for one however find that in general life here 90% of the time I get treated with equal indifference to a Thai, which is the normal scenario as I hardly expect a shop assistant to welcome me with adorning respect just because I'm not Thai. Also fairly regularly I might get treated more positively than a Thai might in a similar situation. 10% of the time I might find someone who is down right difficult - either this person doesn't like foreigners or is like this with anyone.

So, are considered 2nd Class citizens in Thailand ? IMO no, I really don't think the majority of Thai's care or even think about this subject one way or another. However, I feel that other 'non-white' nationalities sometimes get a less than 'on par' treatment in Thailand.

Basically my view.

Most farang's probably don't realise that they get at least equal, if not better, service and treatment wherever they go - simply for being farang. Crap service and treatment is pretty common - and Thai's are first to complain about it.

I sometimes wonder if those who feel they are second class citizens have initially come here on a two week holiday where they spend up like instant millionaires, and then, having decided to move here wonder why all of a sudden 'normal' life isn't anywhere near as fun as their holiday.

Frustrated with the actual process of getting used to living in Thailand, they then chalk it up to being treated as second class citizens, and everything is viewed through the prism of perceived 'racism'.

- That government offical who sneered at you? Well she snears at everyone....

- That 7-11 girl who gave you the wrong change? Well she is a 120 baht/day plonker who gets the change wrong all the time. Check your change!

- That old Thai - Chinese lady at the 'mom and pop' show. Well she doesn't like anyone.

[macleod101]

a bar owner is bassicly seen as a pimp in western terms, so yes he would be seen as a second class person...

on that note

we will be able to work together, to struggle together, to go to jail together, to stand up together

[canuckamuck]

Basically my view.

Most farang's probably don't realise that they get at least equal, if not better, service and treatment wherever they go - simply for being farang. Crap service and treatment is pretty common - and Thai's are first to complain about it.

I sometimes wonder if those who feel they are second class citizens have initially come here on a two week holiday where they spend up like instant millionaires, and then, having decided to move here wonder why all of a sudden 'normal' life isn't anywhere near as fun as their holiday.

Frustrated with the actual process of getting used to living in Thailand, they then chalk it up to being treated as second class citizens, and everything is viewed through the prism of perceived 'racism'.

- That government offical who sneered at you? Well she snears at everyone....

- That 7-11 girl who gave you the wrong change? Well she is a 120 baht/day plonker who gets the change wrong all the time. Check your change!

- That old Thai - Chinese lady at the 'mom and pop' show. Well she doesn't like anyone.

Excellent post

[CaptHaddock]

It's a matter of foreigners not being able to own land. It's a case of the shockingly small number of westerners who successfully become Thai citizens vs. Thais who become citizens in western countries. It's not a matter of being second class citizens. As mentioned before, you have to be some kind of citizen to be a second class citizen. In general, westerners are significantly LESS than second class citizens in Thailand. Please, don't delude yourselves, it's not flattering.

Jing,

You never seem to get it. It is only in your mind that Thailand has some obligation to reciprocate the privileges and benefits of the West. The Thais don't feel feel that way, do they? There is no Thai Statue of Liberty inscribed with a glowing invitation for immigrants. The Thais don't particularly want foreigners in their country, but they do tolerate them to a remarkable degree, i.e. permitting visa runs instead of requiring green cards. And they are quite clear that they will never permit foreigners to buy up Thai land just because the foreigners happen to benefit from a lucky exchange rate. It's their country. They get to decide about land ownership, convertibility of currency, and everything else.

All of which you understood before you relocated to Thailand. So, what is your beef? When you leave the country where you are a citizen to go to a country where you are not, you give up those substantial rights and privileges and become second-class or worse. That's true in all countries, but especially in developing ones.

You make a list of the pros and cons of living in Thailand. You stay. You go. What else is there to say?

[Jingthing]

I get it. You totally misunderstood my points.

[samran]

I get it. You totally misunderstood my points.

then enlighten us.

You seem to imply that once in on a proper visa, PR and Citizenship should be somehow be automatic at some point in time?

Current moratorium on PR aside, it isn't as if it is difficult to qualify for these things. Just that many don't bother.

And for those who are Thai citizens, but aren't 'ethnically' Thai? Seems to me that they sit at the top of the socio-economic tree in Thailand. Thai Chinese, Thai Indians, and yes, westerners with Thai citizenship all get treated pretty darn well in Thailand.

[MJP]

Falang, 2Nd Class Citizens?

It's simply a matter of how you carry yourself here isn't it ?

Behave well and respectfully and you will be treated accordingly.

Wear beer stained T-shirts, smell and prop up a bar all day and you will be treated accordingly.

Many foreigners in Thailand that I know of receive no more or no less respect from the Thai's than they would in their home countries, they expect no more or no less.

I for one however find that in general life here 90% of the time I get treated with equal indifference to a Thai, which is the normal scenario as I hardly expect a shop assistant to welcome me with adorning respect just because I'm not Thai. Also fairly regularly I might get treated more positively than a Thai might in a similar situation. 10% of the time I might find someone who is down right difficult - either this person doesn't like foreigners or is like this with anyone.

So, are considered 2nd Class citizens in Thailand ? IMO no, I really don't think the majority of Thai's care or even think about this subject one way or another. However, I feel that other 'non-white' nationalities sometimes get a less than 'on par' treatment in Thailand.

Basically my view.

Most farang's probably don't realise that they get at least equal, if not better, service and treatment wherever they go - simply for being farang. Crap service and treatment is pretty common - and Thai's are first to complain about it.

I sometimes wonder if those who feel they are second class citizens have initially come here on a two week holiday where they spend up like instant millionaires, and then, having decided to move here wonder why all of a sudden 'normal' life isn't anywhere near as fun as their holiday.

Frustrated with the actual process of getting used to living in Thailand, they then chalk it up to being treated as second class citizens, and everything is viewed through the prism of perceived 'racism'.

- That government offical who sneered at you? Well she snears at everyone....

- That 7-11 girl who gave you the wrong change? Well she is a 120 baht/day plonker who gets the change wrong all the time. Check your change!

- That old Thai - Chinese lady at the 'mom and pop' show. Well she doesn't like anyone.

Spot on.

I honestly think it's down to the language barrier and the fact that most can't speak any Thai.

[pjclark1]

A lot of non Thais here don't seem to mind the very derogative slur the Thais use to describe westerners and have gone so far over to the Thai side that they themselves use this degrading word to describe themselves, however they spell it.

They must have no need of brown shoe polish.

A lot of people round here think it's smart to use a Thai word to describe themselves.

Most are too ignorant to recognize it as an insult.

My girlfriends mother thought it was smart to refer to me as "the farang' in front of me, when talking to her daughter

So I thought it was smart to refer to her a "mare mung" in front of her, when talking to my girlfriend

The relationship didn't last.

There is far more oppression in Thailand than the West. You certainly cannot do what you like in Thailand.

But fortunately nobody in Thailand appears to want to oppress me.

Not being able to publicly insult the King (who by the way I love and think is a really wonderful chap) is really not that much of a problem for me.

While back in the UK, the government, the police and my former wife, all take it turns with a bit of up front and in my face oppression.

Edited February 18, 2011 by pjclark1