Falang, 2Nd Class Citizens?

[fredtitmus]

The other day i was talking to a falang bar owner about thai/falang relations and he said the thai's look at us like we look at the muslim community in our own country and that we are 2nd class citizens.I have only been to Thailand three times totalling 7 months and the bar owner lives here but later when i was back at my apartment i thought is this really true?

We are certainly not like the muslims back home mainly because of:

1. their religion that does not allow them to marry a christian,if a muslim woman was caught with a white man she would be killed and if a muslim man wanted to be with a

white woman she would have to change her religion which few are willing to do.Obviously thai and falang is totally differant.

2.They have the freedom to set up businesses and are able to live of our state benefit,as far as i can see its very difficult for falang to work and no social security.

3.They take money from their business and invest back in there country of origin,we take money from our own countries and invest it in thailand boosting the thai economy

4.Thais like falang football,watching falang films and listening to falang music

I have had no problems with thai people even when i have have been drinking until 5am with them,if i say hello to anyone they say hello back,if i sit in a thai bar alone someone will invite me to drink with them.I have made some good friends and my thai isnt that great yet but all i keep hearing is thai's are rascist! we are 2nd class citizens!

Maybe i havnt been here long enough so would just like to know from guys that have been here longer,whats you feeling on this?

[Jingthing]

Of every 1000 western residents here, how many are even ANY kind of citizen here, first class, second class, no class? I reckon a small fraction of ONE in a 1000.

[mca]

The other day i was talking to a falang bar owner about thai/falang relations and he said the thai's look at us like we look at the muslim community in our own country and that we are 2nd class citizens.

To be honest looking at a fair number of western bar patrons they certainly appear to have bought a 2nd class ticket.

[tonititan]

The other day i was talking to a falang bar owner about thai/falang relations and he said the thai's look at us like we look at the muslim community in our own country and that we are 2nd class citizens.

I think maybe you were getting a little too literal with your arguments. In a way, I get what the guy was saying, in the sense that we are the outsiders who have come to a new country and are possibly starting to influence the traditional ways. In a lot of western countries, the residents are downright nasty towards immigrants....I don't necessarily expect Thai people to be radically different towards me as an immigrant.

[endure]

"The other day i was talking to a falang bar owner about thai/falang relations and he said the thai's look at us like we look at the muslim community in our own country"

Speak for yourself. I judge individuals by their actions not by what group you happen to lump them into.

[DP25]

The other day i was talking to a falang bar owner about thai/falang relations and he said the thai's look at us like we look at the muslim community in our own country and that we are 2nd class citizens

What kind of bar and where is it? Might have something to do with how he is treated

[Ulysses G.]

We are not citizens at all.

[garyh]

If you look through Thai eye's most of us are different to them,

We don't go to the temple and give money,

We don't believe in superstitions,

We don't speak the local language very well,

We complain about how Thai people do things,

We throw money around and take there women,

and the list goes on.

If the shoe was on the other foot most of us would not be so tolerant.

[SGD]

Very simplistic viewpoint but highly inaccurate as westerners in Thailand are merely tolerated as long as they have money whereas the west allows foreigners to live in their countries with rights akin to those of home grown nationals. Thailand offers nothing.

[tonititan]

Very simplistic viewpoint but highly inaccurate as westerners in Thailand are merely tolerated as long as they have money whereas the west allows foreigners to live in their countries with rights akin to those of home grown nationals. Thailand offers nothing.

You may be right, but I think it's important to remember that Thailand does not = The West. And that's exactly why a lot of people seem to come to Thailand. A lot of people on these forums talk about how they are sick of all the government involvement, rules, and oversight in the West. They like they can do what they want over here in Thailand, and nobody bothers them or gets too involved in their business. If they want to come to Thailand to escape the "oppression" of the West, then they really can't expect Thailand to offer the same things as the West, such as in the case of immigrants' rights. There's always a trade-off, and for most westerners, living in Thailand is a choice.

[mstribling]

Fred- I get were your trying to go with this.

It is really simple. There are 65 million Thai's and each of them has there own take on things.

Seems like you have found your niche and get along well with people.

Keep your head on a swivel and there will be few problems.

Yes, at times we're treated by some as 2nd class, sometimes we deserve it, most of the time we don't.

Thai's generalize about people just like everyone else. It is a huge time saver.

BTW- When I am in Tanzania, I date a beautiful 24yr old Muslim woman.

Seems like some Thai's you need to expand your thoughts.

[p_brownstone]

The other day i was talking to a falang bar owner about thai/falang relations and he said the thai's look at us like we look at the muslim community in our own country and that we are 2nd class citizens

What kind of bar and where is it? Might have something to do with how he is treated

Exactly.

How would you feel towards a foreigner in your own Country who earned his living pimping out your female nationals?

Patrick

[MrsMills]

for most westerners, living in Thailand is a choice.

Exactly, reading some of these posts you'd think that many of the posters are held here against their will.

[h90]

We are not citizens at all.

That's the point, in any country the citizen are first class and the non citizen are second class.

[bkkjames]

If you look through Thai eye's most of us are different to them,

We don't go to the temple and give money,

We don't believe in superstitions,

We don't speak the local language very well,

We complain about how Thai people do things,

We throw money around and take there women,

and the list goes on.

If the shoe was on the other foot most of us would not be so tolerant.

Sorry Gary - couldnt resist"

1. Give money to the mrs to do this

2. Which one - I am partial to the salt spilling thingy

3. Sep Bah? or is that aroi na? je ne comprend pa.

4. I complain about how people do things-thais and farangs equally

5. Bad luck to throw money - see point two - their women take me (and many others I suspect)

and list goes marching on on on ...

Edited February 17, 2011 by bkkjames

[canuckamuck]

Farang is a category which is broken into classes.

I prefer the 'jai dee' class to the 'hua ngoo' class

1st class is as unobtainable as citizenship

Edited February 17, 2011 by canuckamuck

[mark45y]

Thailand is ethnocentric. Not as bad as Japan or Korea but still ethnocentric. Most foreigners come here wearing their culture like a turtle wears a shell some even come from other countries like Australia and the US to impose their values on Thai society in a legal sense and arrest Thais for violating Australian and American laws. NGO's and do gooder governments just can't seem to leave Thailand alone. Thailand deported hundreds of Hmong people back to Laos because they remembered when the Hmong were responsible for heroin smuggling and production. The US and all the other Western nations including the UN went ballistic. Thailand didn't care. The same with the recent refugees sent out to sea to die. There is good and bad in the country. It would be nice to only talk about the good and accept the good and somehow change the Thais to eliminate the bad and to conform to western culture.

Even rich educated Thais believe in ghosts and make offerings to inanimate objects. Is it silly? It is part of Thailand. If you are sick in a government hospital the Thai person will be treated before the Falang given equal sickness. In some cases, if you make it on the inside of a Thai family or government institution you will be treated better than Thai people and given a god like status.

For example if you learn how to dance Thai dances and do so at a country concert you will be treated like a rock star. If you do something out of character, like being honest in a business transaction the Thai person will never forget.

The ethnocentrism works both ways. Thais don't expect loyalty or heroism from non Thais. If you show Thai people loyalty and or heroism they will grant you a larger status than a Thai person.

The door swings both ways. It is very difficult for most western people to understand the nuances of Thai culture when they conflict with long held western belief systems.

[IanForbes]

Speak for yourself. I judge individuals by their actions not by what group you happen to lump them into.

Entirely as I do. I can't change the world so I don't even try. I'm just pleasant to everyone, and for the most part, people are pleasant in return.

Thailand has deemed that foreigners can't own land, so that decision alone changes my outlook on living in Thailand permanently. I understand WHY Thailand doesn't want foreigners to own land. It's because countries with far more wealth could actually buy a major portion of Thailand and change it forever. Authorities justifiably don't want that to happen. Unfortunately, In Canada our present leaders do not think the same way and the government leaders are selling out the public's ownership of our own country.

[bkkjames]

Speak for yourself. I judge individuals by their actions not by what group you happen to lump them into.

Entirely as I do. I can't change the world so I don't even try. I'm just pleasant to everyone, and for the most part, people are pleasant in return.

Thailand has deemed that foreigners can't own land, so that decision alone changes my outlook on living in Thailand permanently. I understand WHY Thailand doesn't want foreigners to own land. It's because countries with far more wealth could actually buy a major portion of Thailand and change it forever. Authorities justifiably don't want that to happen. Unfortunately, In Canada our present leaders do not think the same way and the government leaders are selling out the public's ownership of our own country.

And yet despite your doom and gloom, it remains one of the top places in the world to live.

[pjclark1]

How would you feel towards a foreigner in your own Country who earned his living pimping out your female nationals?

Patrick

I would wish him good luck!

[MrMakMak]

Seems like all the people who are being looked down on always use "falang, famang, fatang or falung"

They're not looking down on farangs, just the dirty, fat, whoremongers, teachers, hippies, short shorts lovers, tesco dressers and other weird ones. Just as they would be looked down on if they lived in their own country.

The only place i have been in thailand where im being looked down on, is in phuket because phuket thais are #1 gods of the universe in their own mind, no 1 is more important then them, if they sun died they would survive the artic cold, if a nuclear bomb was sent to phuket, they would catch it and kick it like a football, back to burma.

Most thais outside of phuket are a little envious of normal foreigners or even curious about them.

Maybe not the top thais with tons of $, good looks, hottest white skinned wife and second hotest white skinned mia noi in hand though.:jap:

[mstribling]

Seems like all the people who are being looked down on always use "falang, famang, fatang or falung"

They're not looking down on farangs, just the dirty, fat, whoremongers, teachers, hippies, short shorts lovers, tesco dressers and other weird ones. Just as they would be looked down on if they lived in their own country.

The only place i have been in thailand where im being looked down on, is in phuket because phuket thais are #1 gods of the universe in their own mind, no 1 is more important then them, if they sun died they would survive the artic cold, if a nuclear bomb was sent to phuket, they would catch it and kick it like a football, back to burma.

Most thais outside of phuket are a little envious of normal foreigners or even curious about them.

Maybe not the top thais with tons of $, good looks, hottest white skinned wife and second hotest white skinned mia noi in hand though.:jap:

Really dude? Your in a country filled with absolutely beautiful women, I mean filled.

And your deal is how a bunch of white dudes are dressed?

Really?

[Johnniey]

Even rich educated Thais believe in ghosts and make offerings to inanimate objects. Is it silly?

I am a relatively rich, educated Brit and I believe in ghosts. I too have made many offering to inanimate objects. I don't think it's silly.

[MrMakMak]

Seems like all the people who are being looked down on always use "falang, famang, fatang or falung"

They're not looking down on farangs, just the dirty, fat, whoremongers, teachers, hippies, short shorts lovers, tesco dressers and other weird ones. Just as they would be looked down on if they lived in their own country.

The only place i have been in thailand where im being looked down on, is in phuket because phuket thais are #1 gods of the universe in their own mind, no 1 is more important then them, if they sun died they would survive the artic cold, if a nuclear bomb was sent to phuket, they would catch it and kick it like a football, back to burma.

Most thais outside of phuket are a little envious of normal foreigners or even curious about them.

Maybe not the top thais with tons of $, good looks, hottest white skinned wife and second hotest white skinned mia noi in hand though.:jap:

Really dude? Your in a country filled with absolutely beautiful women, I mean filled.

And your deal is how a bunch of white dudes are dressed?

Really?

You obviously can't get much in your own country, the average thai women are not very good looking.

Edited February 17, 2011 by MrMakMak

[mark45y]

Seems like all the people who are being looked down on always use "falang, famang, fatang or falung"

They're not looking down on farangs, just the dirty, fat, whoremongers, teachers, hippies, short shorts lovers, tesco dressers and other weird ones. Just as they would be looked down on if they lived in their own country.

The only place i have been in thailand where im being looked down on, is in phuket because phuket thais are #1 gods of the universe in their own mind, no 1 is more important then them, if they sun died they would survive the artic cold, if a nuclear bomb was sent to phuket, they would catch it and kick it like a football, back to burma.

Most thais outside of phuket are a little envious of normal foreigners or even curious about them.

Maybe not the top thais with tons of $, good looks, hottest white skinned wife and second hotest white skinned mia noi in hand though.:jap:

"The only place i have been in thailand where im being looked down on, is in phuket." I think you can add Thai Visa forums.

[GreenSnapper]

Most of us here live on a "non immigrant" visa. We are not immigrants and therefore cannot be citizens.

Basically, except for those few who have PR status, we all seen as long term tourists. Even the businessmen or those on ED visas.

[Ulysses G.]

the average thai women are not very good looking.

I hope that this is supposed to be a joke. IMHO, the proportion of attractive women here is much higher than almost any place in the world.

[mstribling]

Seems like all the people who are being looked down on always use "falang, famang, fatang or falung"

They're not looking down on farangs, just the dirty, fat, whoremongers, teachers, hippies, short shorts lovers, tesco dressers and other weird ones. Just as they would be looked down on if they lived in their own country.

The only place i have been in thailand where im being looked down on, is in phuket because phuket thais are #1 gods of the universe in their own mind, no 1 is more important then them, if they sun died they would survive the artic cold, if a nuclear bomb was sent to phuket, they would catch it and kick it like a football, back to burma.

Most thais outside of phuket are a little envious of normal foreigners or even curious about them.

Maybe not the top thais with tons of $, good looks, hottest white skinned wife and second hotest white skinned mia noi in hand though.:jap:

Really dude? Your in a country filled with absolutely beautiful women, I mean filled.

And your deal is how a bunch of white dudes are dressed?

Really?

You obviously can't get much in your own country, the average thai women are not very good looking.

Never to be taken seriously again.

[bkkjames]

Seems like all the people who are being looked down on always use "falang, famang, fatang or falung"

They're not looking down on farangs, just the dirty, fat, whoremongers, teachers, hippies, short shorts lovers, tesco dressers and other weird ones. Just as they would be looked down on if they lived in their own country.

The only place i have been in thailand where im being looked down on, is in phuket because phuket thais are #1 gods of the universe in their own mind, no 1 is more important then them, if they sun died they would survive the artic cold, if a nuclear bomb was sent to phuket, they would catch it and kick it like a football, back to burma.

Most thais outside of phuket are a little envious of normal foreigners or even curious about them.

Maybe not the top thais with tons of $, good looks, hottest white skinned wife and second hotest white skinned mia noi in hand though.:jap:

Really dude? Your in a country filled with absolutely beautiful women, I mean filled.

And your deal is how a bunch of white dudes are dressed?

Really?

You obviously can't get much in your own country, the average thai women are not very good looking.

Never to be taken seriously again.

Think he meant to say "those with average looks - are not good looking"

[mark45y]

the average thai women are not very good looking.

I hope that this is supposed to be a joke. IMHO, the proportion of attractive women here is much higher than almost any place in the world.

At first I felt sorry for the Mr mak mak but even a blind man would notice the difference. Smell and touch still being available to the blind. It must be a very severe handicap. Poor fella. It is a wonder he can type.