Mistakes Farangs Make

[bifftastic]

Most cultures repeat a chain of failure for many generations with no clue how to stop it. Not just 3rd world cultures. In the Chinese culture for example, a particular generation will often sacrifice itself for the sake of future generations but this very seldom happens in the Thai culture. Money will be poorly spent if and when any exists. creature comforts at the most basic levels will replace any concept of what will happen to future generations. This simple chain of failure repeats itself as surely as anything.

Many a Farang has thought he or she could influence this chain of failure by throwing some money at it but the result is always the same. The money is wasted on creature comfort and the Thai family repeats the failure of its parents. Education by itself does little to change the chain but if there is to be any success at all, education remains am important part of the equation.

In 35 years of living among the poor of Thailand, I have seen no serious examples of success.

Of course, you can see the same examples in the west. My family for example, has failed on both sides of the ocean for as long as anyone can remember. We have been content to make up the working class where ever we happen to live and do little to break the chain. It actually becomes the natural order of things to promote common sense over "book" learning. My favorite example.

I would have to take issue here with your definitions of success and failure.

I do , I think, understand the point you are trying to make, some people define success as being able to escape their working class roots, others are content to work, provide for their families and may define success as doing just that.

There is, in my country at least, a notion that social mobility, as it used to be called, is some kind of holy grail, and that this, above all other achievements, is the one we must all strive for.

Whilst I would not deny anyone the opportunity to do whatever they wish to in life, much of the fabric of family can be un-ravelled when this occurs on a large scale. People all chasing 'advancement' often leave behind everything of true value in their quest for this particular carrot dangled in front of them.

That is not to say that I believe education or 'book learning' as you refer to it as, is not important. I think everyone should be able to pursue their potential in any way they can. However, learning and education does not require a person to no longer be working class, nor does it necessarily mean that working class people are, somehow, being denied anything by either circumstance or ignorance. It may be that these 'creature comforts' you deem as a sign of failure are, to them, the opposite.

By definition, there must always be people who work, not everyone can become middle class, it just isn't possible. Some also do not desire to forsake what they have in order to enter this particular tier of any society. It can be seen as lacking in morals, love, family unity and a sense of integrity or honesty.

Not everyone would like to be in positions of power over other people and not everyone would regard the attainment of such positions as success.

It is entirely possible to be successful whilst working with your hands, for instance, earning money with which to provide yourself and your family with food, clothing, shelter and a few creature comforts, and be rightfully proud of your achievement.

The idea that one must continually climb this invisible ladder, forever upwards, could be described as a mistake farangs often make, both in Thailand and elsewhere. In my opinion.

There is no question that somebody has to pick the lettuce but to have that predetermined by your family history is very unfortunate and happens in the vast majority of the cases. Many methods will be used by a family to hold back everyone in the family for the sake of the weakest link. More energy will be spent on the likely losers than the likely winners.

If you have seen the movie out recently "The Fighter" is a perfect example of the matriarch exercising her control to ensure the failure of the family. Of course, she doesn't know she is contributing to the family failure, it is what she knows to do.

I see this daily in Thai families. Nobody expects to pull away and lead his/her part of the family into a new and perhaps better direction.

Again I see you using rather simplistic terms regarding 'success' and 'failure', as if working is failure and some kind of 'promotion' or 'escape from the ghetto' is everyone's dream.

Not everyone who is working class 'picks lettuce' some build homes, work on railways, in coal mines, oil fields etc. and are very happy doing so. You may well see people living in a wooden house and assume they wish to live in a super expensive condo in Bangkok, you may be right, but equally, you may be wrong.

Success is not only measured in terms of money or occupation.

Perhaps where you come from has a culture of 'winners and losers' with no other definitions?

I won't comment on the movie, they're just movies

[coolhandjoe]

Being labelled a farang is a mistake, i have re-educated the Thai's i know,

[darhut]

I thought the most common mistake western males make is picking up a girl with undercarriage.

Regarding the original post by the OP who said most pick the ugliest girl around.

Many pick the most beautiful girl around who only later turns into the ugliest girl around.

The biggest mistake is GETTING MARRIED TO A THAI WOMAN.

That is followed by BUILDING HER A HOUSE.

Etc., etc., etc.

Sorry to hear that you have made such bad decisions Awohalitsikoli. Maybe in the future you will have learnt by your obvious mistakes and make better choices for the future.

[Pakboong]

Most cultures repeat a chain of failure for many generations with no clue how to stop it. Not just 3rd world cultures. In the Chinese culture for example, a particular generation will often sacrifice itself for the sake of future generations but this very seldom happens in the Thai culture. Money will be poorly spent if and when any exists. creature comforts at the most basic levels will replace any concept of what will happen to future generations. This simple chain of failure repeats itself as surely as anything.

Many a Farang has thought he or she could influence this chain of failure by throwing some money at it but the result is always the same. The money is wasted on creature comfort and the Thai family repeats the failure of its parents. Education by itself does little to change the chain but if there is to be any success at all, education remains am important part of the equation.

In 35 years of living among the poor of Thailand, I have seen no serious examples of success.

Of course, you can see the same examples in the west. My family for example, has failed on both sides of the ocean for as long as anyone can remember. We have been content to make up the working class where ever we happen to live and do little to break the chain. It actually becomes the natural order of things to promote common sense over "book" learning. My favorite example.

I would have to take issue here with your definitions of success and failure.

I do , I think, understand the point you are trying to make, some people define success as being able to escape their working class roots, others are content to work, provide for their families and may define success as doing just that.

There is, in my country at least, a notion that social mobility, as it used to be called, is some kind of holy grail, and that this, above all other achievements, is the one we must all strive for.

Whilst I would not deny anyone the opportunity to do whatever they wish to in life, much of the fabric of family can be un-ravelled when this occurs on a large scale. People all chasing 'advancement' often leave behind everything of true value in their quest for this particular carrot dangled in front of them.

That is not to say that I believe education or 'book learning' as you refer to it as, is not important. I think everyone should be able to pursue their potential in any way they can. However, learning and education does not require a person to no longer be working class, nor does it necessarily mean that working class people are, somehow, being denied anything by either circumstance or ignorance. It may be that these 'creature comforts' you deem as a sign of failure are, to them, the opposite.

By definition, there must always be people who work, not everyone can become middle class, it just isn't possible. Some also do not desire to forsake what they have in order to enter this particular tier of any society. It can be seen as lacking in morals, love, family unity and a sense of integrity or honesty.

Not everyone would like to be in positions of power over other people and not everyone would regard the attainment of such positions as success.

It is entirely possible to be successful whilst working with your hands, for instance, earning money with which to provide yourself and your family with food, clothing, shelter and a few creature comforts, and be rightfully proud of your achievement.

The idea that one must continually climb this invisible ladder, forever upwards, could be described as a mistake farangs often make, both in Thailand and elsewhere. In my opinion.

There is no question that somebody has to pick the lettuce but to have that predetermined by your family history is very unfortunate and happens in the vast majority of the cases. Many methods will be used by a family to hold back everyone in the family for the sake of the weakest link. More energy will be spent on the likely losers than the likely winners.

If you have seen the movie out recently "The Fighter" is a perfect example of the matriarch exercising her control to ensure the failure of the family. Of course, she doesn't know she is contributing to the family failure, it is what she knows to do.

I see this daily in Thai families. Nobody expects to pull away and lead his/her part of the family into a new and perhaps better direction.

Again I see you using rather simplistic terms regarding 'success' and 'failure', as if working is failure and some kind of 'promotion' or 'escape from the ghetto' is everyone's dream.

Not everyone who is working class 'picks lettuce' some build homes, work on railways, in coal mines, oil fields etc. and are very happy doing so. You may well see people living in a wooden house and assume they wish to live in a super expensive condo in Bangkok, you may be right, but equally, you may be wrong.

Success is not only measured in terms of money or occupation.

Perhaps where you come from has a culture of 'winners and losers' with no other definitions?

I won't comment on the movie, they're just movies

Of course there is no right or wrong on this issue. Trying to throw some money at a typical impoverished Thai family is at issue. The thinking being that their destiny can be changed by one Farang and a bit of money. It seriously does not happen to any measurable degree.

I refer it to being born in the black hole of failure and staying in that hole until death. To get an individual, a product of the black hole of failure culture, to think outside the hole is next to impossible. Their thoughts and aspirations are limited to those commonly found inside the hole.

Whether or not the family is successful in feeding and housing their family in the basic needs is not at issue at all. At the bottom of Maslow's pyramid is not what I am talking about. I am referring to making it to the next level instead of staying at the base forever. Thais tend to stay at the base level for infinity. The question is why and whether or not a Farang(s) can change that to any serious degree.

[bifftastic]

Levels and pyramids and upwards, ever upwards. I can see we're going to go round and round with this

I do agree that money isn't the solution to all things, there are people who are poor and play the lottery in the hope it will bring them riches they don't want to achieve by any other means, they would also most likely view a foreigner as such a windfall.

There are, however, people who do not view the world as being made up of levels, or pyramids, with themselves at the bottom in some kind of 'failure hole'

This was the point I was trying to make. Not everyone who works with their hands for a living, or isn't rich in monetary terms, is a failure!

In my opinion, it is a mistake to view the world in these terms, winners being the ones who accumulate wealth and power, losers being those who don't.

Life isn't a competition or a game.

[dominique355]

I d didn't read all the posts, just want to give some comment to the OP:

I think one of the biggest mistakes farangs make is we take the first girl that blows our way. Fact is, most farang I see here are with women that wouldn't even rate a 4 on Thai scores. Sadly, in the west they'd be more like 8's.

Why is it a mistake to have a different taste than (most) Thais?

Why do you have to "score" with your girl? Is she your trophy?

Considering farang have such an advantage with the women here, it's no wonder guys find liveins in less than a year. Imagine how long it would take in the west. Took me years and I still couldn't find one..

Haste makes waste. There are stunning, beautiful girls here that most guys would only dream of in the west. So much more feminine. And guys take the ugliest ones around..

And your taste is the absolute taste? You are the ultimate authority in taste and beauty of women?

I suggest guys who first come here to take their time with the women here and be selective. Nothing worse than trying to get rid of a wife in Thailand(watch the knives).

At last a statement I can agree.

[ozzieovaseas]

^^ I will never understand people who go along with this stereotypical "ugly" thing, claiming all farangs choose "ugly" wives and GFs

May i ask what you class as ugly?

I guess its to be expected from these people who have spent a bit of time in Thailand and feel they have to revert to the Thai way.. that white skinned means a better quality of person because they don't APPEAR to have worked in the field..o please

I have had a few GFs of both tones and let me tell you this..the behaviour of some of those err, lighter toned ladies is what was truelly "ugly". Ugly has a whole new meaning when it comes from inside and if your not careful they can do a LOT more damage to your sanity as well as your wallet .

If your hinting about guys picking females who you percieve to have unnatractive physical (or facial) features then all i can put that down to is that maybe these guys think an "ordinary" girl might know the pecking order, therefor they mistakenly think the plain jane will not be as demanding and maybe not treat the guy like an ATM....which is of course another HUGE mistake

edit: just to say although i commented on the above post i did not intend to direct this post to anyone in particular :jap:

Edited February 28, 2011 by ozzieovaseas

[hawthorne]

There are a few very bitter comments, obviously a lot of posters have been stung. We learn by our mistakes I suppose, I've been married to a Thai for 8 years now, everythings great.

I think the biggest mistake is taking advice from disgruntled ex pats that appear to know every thing.

I happen to know someone who has been married to a Thai lady for 8 years.

This Thai lady has a Thai husband in Bangkok, and is doing a long term scam.

I'm sure it isn't your wife thought.

Maybe we know the same girl. She married a man 29 yrs her senior, married 8 years, swears she will never divorce this man but openly tells my wife she is sending money to her other husband every month. She will live out her life with this other man after her present husband passes away but will give him her best years because of the financial support. The girl truely seems to love both men. I think you find every situation in the world if you live long enough. Unfortunately when a woman marries a man far older than herself there tends to be other reasons for this union other than the traditional marriage.

Back to the topic. We all want to be happy. You find someone that makes you happy for whatever reasons then so be it for those two. The beginnings are always so wonderful. I have a great marriage so I must of lucked out on my first trip to the bar!!!