Bangkok Siam Square Vendors Fight Chula's Plant Pot Project

[webfact]

Siam square vendors fight Chula's plant pot project

By Ornravee Tangmeesang,

Montien Intaket

The Nation

Street vendors on Rama I Road at Siam Square defied efforts by Chulalongkorn University staff (CU) yesterday to try to stop them setting up their stalls.

The university has land-title deeds for the footpath, which has long served the public and been overseen by the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration.

This stretch of footpath is a prime location for businesses as a huge number of people walked past the spot each day. Not just a bus stop but also a key Skytrain station are right there.

CU tried to ban the roadside stalls along the footpath for nicer landscape by putting flow?erpots there, but hundreds of street vendors loudly protest?ed, blocked some traffic lanes on the Rama I Road, and later removed the flowerpots.

They then ran their stalls as usual as of press time yesterday.

Before this, up to 150 police?men rushed to the spot because the street vendors spilled on to the road causing serious traffic congestion.

Pathumwan Police Station deputy superintendent Lt Col Peerapong Chai-arun negotiat?ed with the protesters in a bid to limit their activity to the foot?path.

"I've been selling in this area for more than five years. I set up my shop at 9pm. I don't cause any problems. Why would they still do this to me?" an angry protester said.

Wongduan Jaroenporn said she was running a stall on the footpath and paid service fee to officials from BMA Pathumwan District Office without any problem for at least five years already.

"Why does the CU have to force us to move deeper into Siam Square? If we go there, we are running our stall at a loss," she said, "Definitely, we won't move. We will stay here. We don't do anything illegal. We don't sell drugs," she said.

The CU has provided some area on Siam Square Soi 6 for the relocation of these roadside stalls. Vendors are required to pay Bt200 a day for each stall set up between 8pm and mid?night.

Most street vendors are still young in their 20s and 30s. They have mostly sold clothes and accessories.

Pongtep Phochan, a leader of the group, said the group would keep on protesting if Chula still wanted them to move.

This is their first huge gath?ering after several attempts to submit their complaints to BMA, Democrat Party, and var?ious other organisations.

Pathuwam District Office director Pavinee Amarttad believed her agency should have the jurisdiction over the foot?path because it was already given to public benefits.

"We are waiting to hear from a committee that will decide which agency should have the right to manage the footpath area," she said. Chutima Atthaworarat, who heads the CU Pathumwan District Office, said the new area provided for street vendors in fact had good potential to become popular.

"If they move to the same area together, I believe shoppers will definitely drop in," she said.

Chutima urged the vendors to check the area first and would want to hear their decision from today onward.

"If they register themselves with us, they can start running stalls in the new area right away," she added.

-- The Nation 2011-03-08

[jonclark]

Yeah <deleted> the law and the rights of others - we wanna sell our stuff. Thailand a nation on the verge of anarchy

[elshaheen]

I agree. Let them start another citizens revolt, same as Egypt and Libya.

[whybother]

I agree. Let them start another citizens revolt, same as Egypt and Libya.

The citizens in Egypt and Libya were protesting because they weren't allowed to set up their stalls?

Edited March 8, 2011 by whybother

[otherstuff1957]

Poor people in BKK have had certain unspoken rights for generations: The right to open a cheap street stall wherever they choose, the right to build a shack along a klong or railroad track and live for free, etc.... However, the world has not been standing still for the last few generations and Bangkok is now an expensive, global metropolis. I expect that we will see many more of this sort of conflict in the coming years.

These people have had a free ride for generations, if that free ride is taken away, they simply won't be able to compete with Thailand's growing middle class.

[kjun12]

While I don't like the way they just crowd sidewalks with their stalls, this appears to be one of the charms of Thailand. Also, we are not citizens here and should keep our noses out of it.

[thaihome]

I agree. Let them start another citizens revolt, same as Egypt and Libya.

The citizens in Egypt and Libya were protesting because they weren't allowed to set up their stalls?

The first country to have a revolt was Tunisia, which was indeed started because of a street vendor.

TH

How a slap sparked Tunisia's revolution

Sidi Bouzid, a town of 40,000, doesn't get so much as a mention in the Tunisian guidebooks. Tourists don't come to the town. On the morning of Dec. 17, 26-yr.-old Mohammed Bouazizi was selling fruit from a cart as he did every day to support his family. He didn't have a license. But very few of the vendors did.

A municipal official, a woman, came by and confiscated his scale. It was worth $100 and Bouazizi knew he'd have to pay a bribe to get it back. This had happened to him before. But this time, he got mad. He complained and the woman slapped him. One slap in the face, and that's how the revolution began.

He ran, screaming, to the government office in the center of town. He wanted his scale back. That's all. But they wouldn't let him in. He went to a gas station, filled up a canister and went back to the government building. His friend Jamil, another fruit vendor, went with him. Jamil says Bouazizi stood in the middle of traffic, poured gas over himself and cried out, "How do you expect me to make a living?"

Then he lit a match. He barely survived.

[exbelg]

whats up with all those ? marks all over the article, poor quality reporting / copy pasting

[featography]

whats up with all those ? marks all over the article, poor quality reporting / copy pasting

Spazdic typist with coffee jitters?

I found the article funny and most interesting due to not reading it. Read the headline and stop;

Chula plans to grow pot. Whats not to like by the vendors ??? One more product.

[Randee]

Poor people in BKK have had certain unspoken rights for generations: The right to open a cheap street stall wherever they choose, the right to build a shack along a klong or railroad track and live for free, etc.... However, the world has not been standing still for the last few generations and Bangkok is now an expensive, global metropolis. I expect that we will see many more of this sort of conflict in the coming years.

These people have had a free ride for generations, if that free ride is taken away, they simply won't be able to compete with Thailand's growing middle class.

Yes

[Randee]

whats up with all those ? marks all over the article, poor quality reporting / copy pasting

i agree. its very poor to read. maybe the writer was drun?k

[Randee]

I agree. Let them start another citizens revolt, same as Egypt and Libya.

The citizens in Egypt and Libya were protesting because they weren't allowed to set up their stalls?

The first country to have a revolt was Tunisia, which was indeed started because of a street vendor.

TH

How a slap sparked Tunisia's revolution

Sidi Bouzid, a town of 40,000, doesn't get so much as a mention in the Tunisian guidebooks. Tourists don't come to the town. On the morning of Dec. 17, 26-yr.-old Mohammed Bouazizi was selling fruit from a cart as he did every day to support his family. He didn't have a license. But very few of the vendors did.

A municipal official, a woman, came by and confiscated his scale. It was worth $100 and Bouazizi knew he'd have to pay a bribe to get it back. This had happened to him before. But this time, he got mad. He complained and the woman slapped him. One slap in the face, and that's how the revolution began.

He ran, screaming, to the government office in the center of town. He wanted his scale back. That's all. But they wouldn't let him in. He went to a gas station, filled up a canister and went back to the government building. His friend Jamil, another fruit vendor, went with him. Jamil says Bouazizi stood in the middle of traffic, poured gas over himself and cried out, "How do you expect me to make a living?"

Then he lit a match. He barely survived.

wow really?! this is interesting. i wonder why BBC news dont report on the interesting details like this.

[lurker]

Poor people in BKK have had certain unspoken rights for generations: The right to open a cheap street stall wherever they choose, the right to build a shack along a klong or railroad track and live for free, etc.... However, the world has not been standing still for the last few generations and Bangkok is now an expensive, global metropolis. I expect that we will see many more of this sort of conflict in the coming years.

These people have had a free ride for generations, if that free ride is taken away, they simply won't be able to compete with Thailand's growing middle class.

Cheap street stalls, NOT ... live for free, NOT ... free ride, NOT!!

But at least marginalized people have still been able to eat and survive after all of the payoffs. The difference these days is that the payoffs are still made, but the people are left hungry. Poverty + hunger = major problem!

[geriatrickid]

Some of you are missing the point. It is private property and it is not a public area. The land belongs to the University, as per the land deeds. How would you feel if someone started selling goods on your front walk blocking your entry and exit. The university is attempting to make the area more liveable and to ensure that there is safe ingress and egress. Why is it alright for a group of profiteers to squat on someone else's land, especially if the landowner is trying to improve the land?? The merchants have been given an alternative area but want to sell in the contested area. The merchants have not been stopped form selling their counterfeit and shoddy merchandise, nor has the university demanded bribes from them.

The Thais who want to make the country a better place certainly can't win with some of the Thai Visa crowd.

Edited March 8, 2011 by geriatrickid

[orosee]

Some of you are missing the point. It is private property and it is not a public area. The land belongs to the University, as per the land deeds.

Indeed, but what to make of this: "Wongduan Jaroenporn said she was running a stall on the footpath and paid service fee to officials from BMA Pathumwan District Office without any problem for at least five years already"

Shouldn't it be that Chula would pay the BMA, and the vendors pay Chula?

Or could it be... is it possible... that this "fee" is nothing official?

[marquess]

Some of you are missing the point. It is private property and it is not a public area. The land belongs to the University, as per the land deeds. How would you feel if someone started selling goods on your front walk blocking your entry and exit. The university is attempting to make the area more liveable and to ensure that there is safe ingress and egress. Why is it alright for a group of profiteers to squat on someone else's land, especially if the landowner is trying to improve the land?? The merchants have been given an alternative area but want to sell in the contested area. The merchants have not been stopped form selling their counterfeit and shoddy merchandise, nor has the university demanded bribes from them.

The Thais who want to make the country a better place certainly can't win with some of the Thai Visa crowd.

Good post, agree it is private land.

[whybother]

Some of you are missing the point. It is private property and it is not a public area. The land belongs to the University, as per the land deeds.

Indeed, but what to make of this: "Wongduan Jaroenporn said she was running a stall on the footpath and paid service fee to officials from BMA Pathumwan District Office without any problem for at least five years already"

Shouldn't it be that Chula would pay the BMA, and the vendors pay Chula?

Or could it be... is it possible... that this "fee" is nothing official?

From the OP:

The university has land-title deeds for the footpath, which has long served the public and been overseen by the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration.

[ETatBKK]

anyone could elaborate further, as far as I know :

land owner : crown land

right of use : Chulalongkorn University

administration : BMA

( from Chamchuri Square, up to and including Siam Paragon, is under this arrangement ? )

it is not a discussion of eliminating street vendors, it is a discussion of relocating. it is not a question of SHOULD, it is an issue of HOW-TO :-(

[lurker]

Poor people in BKK have had certain unspoken rights for generations: The right to open a cheap street stall wherever they choose, the right to build a shack along a klong or railroad track and live for free, etc.... However, the world has not been standing still for the last few generations and Bangkok is now an expensive, global metropolis. I expect that we will see many more of this sort of conflict in the coming years.

These people have had a free ride for generations, if that free ride is taken away, they simply won't be able to compete with Thailand's growing middle class.

Cheap street stalls, NOT ... live for free, NOT ... free ride, NOT!!

But at least marginalized people have still been able to eat and survive after all of the payoffs. The difference these days is that the payoffs are still made, but the people are left hungry. Poverty + hunger = major problem!

[lurker]

Some of you are missing the point. It is private property and it is not a public area. The land belongs to the University, as per the land deeds.

Indeed, but what to make of this: "Wongduan Jaroenporn said she was running a stall on the footpath and paid service fee to officials from BMA Pathumwan District Office without any problem for at least five years already"

Shouldn't it be that Chula would pay the BMA, and the vendors pay Chula?

Or could it be... is it possible... that this "fee" is nothing official?

Under Thai business law there is no such thing as "food hawker", "street vendor", "push cart operator", etc. That means no legal business registration so no protections under law ... also no collected legal fees, taxes etc. Leasing/sub-leasing property also requires licensing and payment of rental taxes, but of course the businesses don't exist so why bother to register the leases and pay the proper taxes ... or declare the income and pay the taxes.

If all businesses were properly registered and taxed accordingly, the coffers would be overflowing with resources to solve the issues of poverty.

[samtam]

I saw these plant stands in the street on Rama I yesterday, per the photo, and whilst they are pretty enough, my first thought was who had the brilliantstupid idea to reduce the pavement by such a large margin, (a common trait in this city).

But the use of pavements, (whilst a quirky attribute of the city), is a very annoying one, which makes pedestrian usage very difficult. A (Thai) writer to the Nation's letters page recently was querying the huge cost of the proposed skywalk extension, (I haven't got the figures, but from memory it was THB300m or THB600m per kilometer), whereas there are perfectly good pavements in existence in the city, but the majority of them have been taken over by street vendors or are "littered" with unused telephone boxes, (in a population that has 1 and 1/2 mobile phones per head), and signs that were unreadable because there was no planning in their placement, and one blocked the other etc.

The BMA really needs to get its act together, because with an ever growing population, the situation will only get worse, and anger will grow.

[thaikahuna]

Yeah <deleted> the law and the rights of others - we wanna sell our stuff. Thailand a nation on the verge of anarchy

How many of them actually have vendor permits to operate a stall? And if they do, how many actually pay their taxes? Methinks the answer to both questions is ZERO!

There was a similar situation in the Jomtien area several years ago where vendors had set up in a median area of one of the sois totally blocking anyone's ability to park near their hotel or guesthouse. Many of the hotel owners got together and made arrangements. then next morning around oh dark hundred, the bulldozers came through and that was the end of it. The same should happen with the street vendors here in BKK too.

[asiawatcher]

Some of you are missing the point. It is private property and it is not a public area. The land belongs to the University, as per the land deeds. How would you feel if someone started selling goods on your front walk blocking your entry and exit. The university is attempting to make the area more liveable and to ensure that there is safe ingress and egress. Why is it alright for a group of profiteers to squat on someone else's land, especially if the landowner is trying to improve the land?? The merchants have been given an alternative area but want to sell in the contested area. The merchants have not been stopped form selling their counterfeit and shoddy merchandise, nor has the university demanded bribes from them.

The Thais who want to make the country a better place certainly can't win with some of the Thai Visa crowd.

Yes this is all about squatters taking a free ride. Many legitimate businesses in Thailand have to put up with competition who simply set up outside their premises on the footpath and sell in competition and cheaper. No - this is as clearly stated here and now these illegal vendors have damaged Chulas property. Who will be accountable? Make a complain to police? Hardly, the vendors pay off the police (look at Sukhumvit) to remain. This is the type of demonstrable situation that should be made an example of. But the Police will continue to ignore it - of course.

[lurker]

How many of them actually have vendor permits to operate a stall? And if they do, how many actually pay their taxes? Methinks the answer to both questions is ZERO!

There was a similar situation in the Jomtien area several years ago where vendors had set up in a median area of one of the sois totally blocking anyone's ability to park near their hotel or guesthouse. Many of the hotel owners got together and made arrangements. then next morning around oh dark hundred, the bulldozers came through and that was the end of it. The same should happen with the street vendors here in BKK too.

Of course it's "zero" ... there is no such business category/designation ... no such taxation. Most would rather pay such registration and taxes because it would be much more benefit to them than the protection money they have to pay now. As long as corruption is allowed to continue funneling up and down through officialdom the people (ALL of them/us) will continue to be exploited.

[bulmercke]

I can understand that these vendors need to earn a living but they are often selling their goods in the most congested of places with no regard for poor pedestrians trying to walk from A to B as quickly as possible.

[warfie]

There are footpaths in Krung Thep? I've never seen them...

[samtam]

The streets of Bangkok are not paved with gold.

In many cases they're not even paved.

[petedk]

Just walked from MBK to Siam Square. What a pleasure.

I usually have to walk on the road to get by the vendors and people.

Personally I think it's ok to have the vendors in some places but on that particular stretch of footpath there were vendors on both sides leaving very little room to walk.

[robblok]

How many of them actually have vendor permits to operate a stall? And if they do, how many actually pay their taxes? Methinks the answer to both questions is ZERO!

There was a similar situation in the Jomtien area several years ago where vendors had set up in a median area of one of the sois totally blocking anyone's ability to park near their hotel or guesthouse. Many of the hotel owners got together and made arrangements. then next morning around oh dark hundred, the bulldozers came through and that was the end of it. The same should happen with the street vendors here in BKK too.

Of course it's "zero" ... there is no such business category/designation ... no such taxation. Most would rather pay such registration and taxes because it would be much more benefit to them than the protection money they have to pay now. As long as corruption is allowed to continue funneling up and down through officialdom the people (ALL of them/us) will continue to be exploited.

55555

Of course they can pay tax, take it from an accountant. Its easy enough, but they only have to pay tax if the make more as a certain amount i believe its 150.000 a year. Above that they pay 10% up to 500.000 and more if they exceed that amount. So they can pay tax. Also why would they not be able to get a license.. they would have to pay but could get it. You should get your facts straight.

[TAWP]

Under Thai business law there is no such thing as "food hawker", "street vendor", "push cart operator", etc. That means no legal business registration so no protections under law ... also no collected legal fees, taxes etc. Leasing/sub-leasing property also requires licensing and payment of rental taxes, but of course the businesses don't exist so why bother to register the leases and pay the proper taxes ... or declare the income and pay the taxes.

If all businesses were properly registered and taxed accordingly, the coffers would be overflowing with resources to solve the issues of poverty.

Not correct, you can pay tax for your food cart or street vendor place. Infact, there was many instances where expats with wifes made a point of paying all the fees and taxes before when the extension-limit of 40k per month was 'for the family', not only the husband (expat).

Sunbelt can give you more info if you need help paying the taxes.