Thailand Vs The English Language...

[ChrisP]

Ok.. let me see if I have this right..

Thailand is near the bottom of the list for English language comprehension and usage.. and the Govt wants to improve that situation.

Maybe it would help us all - including us English speakers trying to live in LOS - IF

1. The major Thai Government Web Sites were in Thai and English

2. Every notice on the Skytrain and MRT were in Thai and English (it's not bad now, I hasten to add..)

3. Street and road signs were in Thai and English (many are not).

4. Supermarkets and food shops labelled their goods in Thai and English.

The more they integrate a dual language, Thai's would get used to seeing (and understanding) written English next to their language.. and it would actually help us to know where we are, what's going on.

ChrisP

[SiamOne]

Ok.. let me see if I have this right..

Thailand is near the bottom of the list for English language comprehension and usage..  and the Govt wants to improve that situation.

Maybe it would help us all - including us English speakers trying to live in LOS - IF

1. The major Thai Government Web Sites were in Thai and English

2. Every notice on the Skytrain and MRT were in Thai and English (it's not bad now, I hasten to add..)

3. Street and road signs were in Thai and English (many are not).

4.  Supermarkets and food shops labelled their goods in Thai and English.

The more they integrate a dual language, Thai's would get used to seeing (and understanding) written English next to their language.. and it would actually help us to know where we are, what's going on.

ChrisP

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I know, it's terrible isn't it? Those Thais even have their own script just to make it difficult for visitors. When are they going to learn? and not just English, all signs should have Japanese, Chinese and Korean language too.

I am surprised anyone comes to Thailand as no-one speaks correct English, even in the bars

[taxexile]

I know, it's terrible isn't it? Those Thais even have their own script just to make it difficult for visitors. When are they going to learn? and not just English, all signs should have Japanese, Chinese and Korean language too.

well said.

[a2396]

It will take a long time for Thailand to get to the level of India, Malaysia, Philippines, etc, where English has been in use as a second language for hundreds of years. Many Thais I know want to speak better English, but it is difficult because they do not have the opportunity to speak English on a daily basis with anyone. I think Thailand is probably better than some other countries in the region, such as Laos, Vietnam and China (mainland).

[ChrisP]

^ I agree with you there. I was in Hong Kong recently and even there it was hard to find English spoken now.

My point is not that English is the only language Thais might learn.. but (whether you like it or not) English is the International language of business. And they say that they WANT to get better at English... so I was just suggesting some simple ways of us helping each other.

I don't expect everyone to speak English fluently, I'm quite happy to learn Thai (slowly!) and speak it when I get the chance.

ChrisP

[Felix Lynn]

I know, it's terrible isn't it? Those Thais even have their own script just to make it difficult for visitors. When are they going to learn? and not just English, all signs should have Japanese, Chinese and Korean language too.

well said.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good point, however, I think Chris is saying that in light of the Thai governement's push to have the populace learn English suggestions on how they can accomplish this are in order. Many in the country want to improve their English. His suggestions would help in that effort.

[SiamOne]

Good point, however, I think Chris is saying that in light of the Thai governement's push to have the populace learn English suggestions on how they can accomplish this are in order. Many in the country want to improve their English. His suggestions would help in that effort.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

yes, sure, the government knows the way forward; that is to educate properly, teach English in schools. It is slowly being done, but it is happening

Just translating this and that into English is hardly the way to educate the populace! that is for foreigners.

[NguuMuu]

I think Thailand is probably better than some other countries in the region, such as Laos, Vietnam and China (mainland).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

According to this report from the TOEFL people (TOEFL Test and Score Data Summary 2003-2004 [PDF]), Thailand's English ability is ranked second to last in Southeast Asia with a score of 201 (Only 1 point above last place, Cambodia).

Yes, according to these results, Thailand is/was behind Laos, Vietnam, and China.

I believe this was posted on the forum sometime in the last 2 months or so although I could not find it in the search engine. Additionally, a summary of the report was in the Bangkok Post about a month or two ago (relegated to a small, maybe 4th page article, of course).

Of course, it's hard to say how accurate this test really is and whether Thailand has been improving at greater rate over the last few years (as better prepared students get ready to take the test).

[Neeranam]

Maybe it would help us all - including us English speakers trying to live in LOS - IF

1. The major Thai Government Web Sites were in Thai and English

2. Every notice on the Skytrain and MRT were in Thai and English (it's not bad now, I hasten to add..)

3. Street and road signs were in Thai and English (many are not).

4. Supermarkets and food shops labelled their goods in Thai and English.

The more they integrate a dual language, Thai's would get used to seeing (and understanding) written English next to their language.. and it would actually help us to know where we are, what's going on.

ChrisP

Many of the goverments websites are in Thai and English, how many do you look at?

Every notice on the Sky train is in English too, isn't it?

All street signs are in Thai and English. Most road signs in the cities are in both.

Many foods are in Thai and English.

When I was in Barcelona, I learnt Catalan and Spanish.

When I was in France I learnt French.

When I came to Thailand, I learnt Thai.

This is a pretty lazy,selfish viewpoint as I can see it. This is not the way to improves Thais' English. If all residents learned Thai, then there would be greater interaction and English/Thai would get better for all.

I think you are very lucky that the Thai government doesn't ask you to have a reasonable level in the Thai language in order to get your visa.

[Nickerelastic]

How inconvenient for the English speaking touron in a foreign land.

sarcasm

[ChrisP]

Many of the goverments websites are in Thai and English, how many do you look at?

The web site for the Minister who asked for traffic suggestions PM’s Office Minister Newin Chidchobb - www.thanonyim.com is only in Thai.

Every notice on the Sky train is in English too, isn't it?

Except for the temporary ones - which presumably are for service changes..?

All street signs are in Thai and English. Most road signs in the cities are in both.

I disagree. I constantly see road signs only in Thai.

Many foods are in Thai and English.

Even at Carrefour some of the food labels are only in Thai.

When I was in Barcelona, I learnt Catalan and Spanish.

When I was in France I learnt French.

When I came to Thailand, I learnt Thai.

And I'm quite happy to learn Thai too. My suggestion is not selfish. I hope it would help both Westerners and Thais learn from each other and improve our co-existing. Even in Wales (in the UK) everything is in dual-language of Welsh and English.

ChrisP

[ovenman]

This is a pretty lazy,selfish viewpoint as I can see it. This is not the way to improves Thais'  English. If all residents learned Thai, then there would be greater interaction and English/Thai would get better for all.

You lost me here. If all residents spoke Thai, why would there be greater Thai/English interaction? Wouldn't more interaction then occur in Thai-only?

How inconvenient for the English speaking touron in a foreign land.

A self-professed goal of the Thai government is to increase English language proficiency amongst the Thai population.

[SiamOne]

Many of the goverments websites are in Thai and English, how many do you look at?

The web site for the Minister who asked for traffic suggestions PM’s Office Minister Newin Chidchobb - www.thanonyim.com is only in Thai.

Every notice on the Sky train is in English too, isn't it?

Except for the temporary ones - which presumably are for service changes..?

All street signs are in Thai and English. Most road signs in the cities are in both.

I disagree. I constantly see road signs only in Thai.

Many foods are in Thai and English.

Even at Carrefour some of the food labels are only in Thai.

When I was in Barcelona, I learnt Catalan and Spanish.

When I was in France I learnt French.

When I came to Thailand, I learnt Thai.

And I'm quite happy to learn Thai too. My suggestion is not selfish. I hope it would help both Westerners and Thais learn from each other and improve our co-existing. Even in Wales (in the UK) everything is in dual-language of Welsh and English.

ChrisP

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

you still miss the point, how does any of that help Thai people learn English??

Ok one or two words, like "danger" or :sausages" but nothing really

Thai people will/are learning English in the schools. More is needed, but not your way!!

Your post reads like a complaint that there is not enough English for you to understand everything around you - sorry for that, I hope things improve

[ovenman]

you still miss the point, how does any of that help Thai people learn English??

Ok one or two words, like "danger"  or :sausages"  but nothing really

Thai people will/are learning English in the schools. More is needed, but not your way!!

For what ChrisP suggests to have any impact, people need to make a very, very conscious effort to learn this way. I always try to improve my Thai by reading signs everywhere I go but still, if a sign contains mixed language and even with the English being written much, much smaller-sized than the Thai, my eyes always see the English text first.

[Morden]

Perhaps it's the limited availablility of written and spoken English language that keeps Thailand the place it is. I already see rather too much Western crassness in the form of McD and KFC. If Thais were forced or persuaded to use English more commonly, the country may just become another outpost of all that we wish to escape by being there.

My knowledge of the Thai language is very limited at the moment but slowly improving. Working out whether I am hearing Thai or Isaan is one of my problems! However, I get by thanks to the willingness of the Thai people to help and the assistance of my wife. It can be a struggle but that's my fault and I would not presume to tell someone to speak my language in their country just because I haven't learned theirs.

There's just one thing that I find a little irritating. That is picking up a brochure or entering a website that has a main page in English only to find that the content is in Thai. Why do they do that?

[mrbojangles]

So, we've had 14 replies to Chrisp as to why his suggestions won't help much. What do any of you suggest instead. I'm not an expert on Teaching methods but many on this forum are Teachers, why not give your view as to how the Thai's can improve on English.

The point of this is to help Thai's in future years, with business, i couldn't believe they where behind Laos and Vietnam.

[sriracha john]

Good point, however, I think Chris is saying that in light of the Thai governement's push to have the populace learn English suggestions on how they can accomplish this are in order. Many in the country want to improve their English. His suggestions would help in that effort.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

yes, sure, the government knows the way forward; that is to educate properly, teach English in schools. It is slowly being done, but it is happening

Just translating this and that into English is hardly the way to educate the populace! that is for foreigners.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's not happening in the schools... to any appreciable level. At this pace it will be generation after generation relegated to the lower rungs of SE Asia's English abilities.

Chris's suggestions are valid, but also not free. Duality in printing and labeling and new signs would be quite expensive... but the government easily wastes an equal amount on less productive educational projects.

The signs would, indeed, be a benefit to both Thais and foreigners... nothing wrong with getting the secondary benefit of aiding foreigners by investing in one of, if not it's biggest, industries... tourism. Goodness knows, the government spends wastefully in that ministry, as well, on non-productive projects.

[Rumpole]

I think Thailand is probably better than some other countries in the region, such as Laos, Vietnam and China (mainland).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Due to the large number of foreign tourists in Thailand, it is presently perhaps easier to get around in English at a basic level. However, China is rapidly catching up. In the larger, more international cities such as Beijing, Shanghai and Guangzhou, and tourist orientated places like Xian, I am constantly surprised by the number of people in shops, bars and restaurants who speak English. The 2008 Olympics has spurred the government to encourage more of the local populace to learn how to communicate with visitors. At a more advanced level, young Chinese university, and even high school graduates, can usually communicate much more fluently in English than their Thai counterparts. They are simply less visible to tourists and casual visitors because they do not drive taxis or work in shops or restaurants.

Edited September 15, 2005 by Rumpole

[tripperj]

Good point, however, I think Chris is saying that in light of the Thai governement's push to have the populace learn English suggestions on how they can accomplish this are in order. Many in the country want to improve their English. His suggestions would help in that effort.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

yes, sure, the government knows the way forward; that is to educate properly, teach English in schools. It is slowly being done, but it is happening

Just translating this and that into English is hardly the way to educate the populace! that is for foreigners.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Have to agree me thonks op's is not as conserend about thai's have a better life by learning to speak eng as for life being easier for english speakers if sign ect were in eng'.

Would cost quite a bit to to all he suggests and still if people have learned english they still won't be able to read it, if this was true all the non thai speakers would soon learn to read the thai signs..

[Chainat1]

Ok.. let me see if I have this right..

Thailand is near the bottom of the list for English language comprehension and usage..  and the Govt wants to improve that situation.

Maybe it would help us all - including us English speakers trying to live in LOS - IF

1. The major Thai Government Web Sites were in Thai and English

2. Every notice on the Skytrain and MRT were in Thai and English (it's not bad now, I hasten to add..)

3. Street and road signs were in Thai and English (many are not).

4.  Supermarkets and food shops labelled their goods in Thai and English.

The more they integrate a dual language, Thai's would get used to seeing (and understanding) written English next to their language.. and it would actually help us to know where we are, what's going on.

ChrisP

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I dont think your suggestion will solve the issue but I do think it can only help. I agree with...'while in Rome do as the Romans do'...but I think your suggestions can only help things. Even if it didn't help a great deal surely it would give some tourists more confidence to travel outside the main tourist areas

[meemiathai]

I think Thailand is probably better than some other countries in the region, such as Laos, Vietnam and China (mainland).

According to this report from the TOEFL people (TOEFL Test and Score Data Summary 2003-2004 [PDF]), Thailand's English ability is ranked second to last in Southeast Asia with a score of 201 (Only 1 point above last place, Cambodia).

Yes, according to these results, Thailand is/was behind Laos, Vietnam, and China.

I believe this was posted on the forum sometime in the last 2 months or so although I could not find it in the search engine. Additionally, a summary of the report was in the Bangkok Post about a month or two ago (relegated to a small, maybe 4th page article, of course).

Of course, it's hard to say how accurate this test really is and whether Thailand has been improving at greater rate over the last few years (as better prepared students get ready to take the test).

Have you ever been to Korea???

[samran]

No one has told us how much an effective campaign to raise the level of English is going to cost the Thai government.

[helitool]

Twenty years ago I taught english at AUA Chaing Mai for 6 years about 3-4 hrs each day. I only once caught two of my students using english to comunicate with each other outside the classroom in all that time! I returned to LOS end of last year for 3 months.

After 15 years the only changes in english study that I noticed were for the worse.

1. AUA has stopped teaching kids and only teaches adults.

My favorite classes were the kids!

Only native speakers of a language are truely qualified to teach that language. One reason that is overlooked is that they are comfortable enough speaking it that they can concentrate on technique instead of using all their concentration just to string a few words together.

2. English instruction in Thai public schools is even worse than it was then.

The entire 3 months I was in the same house as my 10 year old nephew who is a student at Montford. The lack of quality of the english instruction is apalling! They were trying to teach him vocabulary words that I a native speaker who is very well read and educated had never seen, but he coulden't say the simplest sentence to me in answer to questions such as "good morning, did you sleep well".

3. I did not notice any english programing on Thai tv.

As far as I am concerned the only proper use of television is to teach a target language. I watch only German and Italian tv programs as those are the languages I am currently learning. My wife learned a lot of her english here in the states from TV.

4. One reason that Thais use Thai instead of english is that Thai is far better for basic comunication purposes than english. I prefer it myself as the nuances available are more subtle and it is just more fun. If given the choice a Thai will comunicate in Thai no mater how good he is at english (and so will I)

5. Among foreigners throughout the world the lingua franca is english. Here in Thailand it is Thai. When I meet a Frenchman or Italian etc. who has lived here for years we use Thai to comunicate because neither of us speaks the others language as well as we do the Thai language we have been forced to learn by living here in Thailand.

I am sure that many of us retired english speakers would donate their time to the Thai educational system if the burecrats would make it easier to do.

[Abandon]

snip .

snip

snip .

A self-professed goal of the Thai government is to increase English language proficiency amongst the Thai population.

self professed goal An example of other goals the govt has set , ummmm, eliminate the traffic problems in Bkk in 6 months ...

hey, they could have a CRACKDOWN on poor engish skills

[sriracha john]

I think Thailand is probably better than some other countries in the region, such as Laos, Vietnam and China (mainland).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

According to this report from the TOEFL people (TOEFL Test and Score Data Summary 2003-2004 [PDF]), Thailand's English ability is ranked second to last in Southeast Asia with a score of 201 (Only 1 point above last place, Cambodia).

Yes, according to these results, Thailand is/was behind Laos, Vietnam, and China.

I believe this was posted on the forum sometime in the last 2 months or so although I could not find it in the search engine. Additionally, a summary of the report was in the Bangkok Post about a month or two ago (relegated to a small, maybe 4th page article, of course).

Of course, it's hard to say how accurate this test really is and whether Thailand has been improving at greater rate over the last few years (as better prepared students get ready to take the test).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Have you ever been to Korea???

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I dare say if their 24-hour English channel Arirang is any indication, Korea has made great strides in their understanding of English. From the educational game shows with Korean kids to their very professional programs on travel, the level of English in Korea far surpasses Thailand. It reemphasizes that when a country is trying to bolster it's knowledge of English, it's beneficial to have it readily available in a variety of formats. Just as the Korean movies with English subtitles it shows offer the bilingual student a chance to improve and see how their native language translates, Chris's suggestion would do the same.

[PanzerJohn]

How inconvenient for the English speaking touron in a foreign land.

sarcasm

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I really detest those bloody tourons, not only can they not speak English, they can't spell either.

[sriracha john]

snip .

snip

snip .

A self-professed goal of the Thai government is to increase English language proficiency amongst the Thai population.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

self professed goal An example of other goals the govt has set , ummmm, eliminate the traffic problems in Bkk in 6 months ...

hey, they could have a CRACKDOWN on poor english skills

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They could start with the horrendous level of the fearless leader. He should be a role model for bilingualism, given his background, but instead... he's not. He personifies the problem.

[sanook2me]

IMHO tonight, isn't it all a bit fascist forcing your language and some of your culture onto another society????

No question English is the International language but do ordinary folks of a non-english speaking country need to speak English?

My experiences in the LoS taught me that the people who needed to speak English spoke English. Does the girl working in macky dee's need to speak English because its part of american globalisation,, i think not when 99% of customers are Thai...

over too you......

[Abandon]

kewl avatar sanook

[Johpa]

Twenty years ago I taught english at AUA Chaing Mai for 6 years about 3-4 hrs each day. ...

After 15 years the only changes in english study that I noticed were for the worse.

We might have been teaching there at the same time, but I would disagree that things are worse as there are more methodologies being used today at AUA then in the past. John might not be the earliest adapter of new teaching methodologies, but he is a very competent administator.

Only native speakers of a language are truely qualified to teach that language.

&lt;deleted&gt;! That is simply not true. There were some good Thai teachers teaching English at AUA, CMU, and Mae Jo when I was involved years ago. Not all were good, but many had college degrees from the US or the UK and spoke excellent English.

2. English instruction in Thai public schools is even worse than it was then.

No, it is not much better, but it is not worse. But then instruction in all subjects in Thai public schools is pretty poor. But certainly the teaching of English in Thai public schools is no worse than foreign language instruction in US public schools.

3. I did not notice any english programing on Thai tv....

My wife learned a lot of her english here in the states from TV.

I don't know why there would be English programming on Thai TV but there was an English language learning show on not that long ago. .

4.  One reason that Thais use Thai instead of english is that Thai is far better for basic comunication purposes than english.

Funny, I thought it was because Thai was their native language.

5. Among foreigners throughout the world the lingua franca is english. Here in Thailand it is Thai.  When I meet a Frenchman or Italian etc. who has lived here for years we use Thai to comunicate because neither of us speaks the others language as well as we do the Thai language we have been forced to learn by living here in Thailand.

Huh??? I can't really explain your rather singular experience, but for the past 25 years I hace communicated with Europeans I meet in Thailand in English with but very rare exceptions. And I do not know of any Farang who has been forced to learn Thai and indeed the majority of Farangs I meet, including many who have lived in Thailand for many years, speak little meaningful Thai.

I am sure that many of us retired english speakers would donate their time to the Thai educational system if the burecrats would make it easier to do.

As long as you are voluntering your time there are few bureaucratic hassles.

If you compare the number of Thais who now speak decent English as compared to 20 years ago then you will have to give some kudos to the country. There is now a fully mature tourist infrastructure with competent English speakers at all hotels, tourist sites, and major transportation hubs. One has to travel quite a bit off the beaten path to find adventure travel in Thailand where there is little English spoken other than the small rural mubaans and even there one can often find someone with minimal English skills. Perhaps you have forgotten just how rare it was to encounter a Thai with good English skills 20 years ago outside the guesthouses.