War On Drugs . >

[Buff-horns]

War on drugs 'sparks AIDS spike'

By Ron Corben in Bangkok

September 15, 2005

AUSTRALIA has told Asian countries that tough tactics in their war on drugs have accelerated the spread of HIV/AIDS in the region.

The warning came during a two-day seminar of senior police officers from 12 Asian nations at the Thai seaside resort of Hua Hin.

Australian officials said today Asian countries should pursue alternative harm-reduction programs, such as needle and syringe exchanges, as well as voluntary rehabilitation.

Many officers at the conference came from nations that punish drug offenders and traffickers with long prison terms or the death penalty.

But Peter Mahomet, AusAid's Asia regional HIV/AIDS program manager, said Asian police forces could learn from Australia's strategy of reducing the spread of AIDS among injecting drug users.

"We're trying to encourage police to be supportive and allow injecting drug users to access services that help reduce ... the HIV harm of injecting drugs; providing access to clean needles and syringes to avoid HIV transmission," Mr Mahomet said.

Mr Mahomet, who is based in Hanoi, said Asia's "get tough" drug reduction methods were failing.

Up to 80 per cent of those placed in involuntary rehabilitation centres returned to drugs after trying to give up through cold-turkey methods, he said.

"They spend a lot of money at involuntary rehabilitation centres and as soon as they get out they start using again," he said.

In Thailand, South China, Vietnam and Burma, which have drug trafficking routes, as many as 60 per cent injecting drug users have HIV.

"If we carry on with the current drug-supply reduction strategy and drug-demand reduction strategies, HIV will continue to flourish," he said.

© The Australian

the australian.new.com.au

[tripperj]

so true, DON@T DO IT OR WILL PUT U IN JAIL, doesn't really work when some one has a junk habbit, they don't care about the consiquences just as long as they can get a fix into them. Addiction is a disease, education and harm reduction leading to abbsanace is the only way to truly deal with problem..

[SiamOne]

as far as I know, most of those shot and killed by the police in the drugs crackdown last year have not returned to using drugs

[minbari73]

as far as I know, most of those shot and killed by the police in the drugs crackdown last year have not returned to using drugs

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

including the innocent bystanders!

pfft

[uncle paul]

i was party to some high level meetings as the thai policy was implemented. when i said that all they will do is drive up the price i was laughed at

they didnt seem to realise that the only way to deal with drug problems is through education!!! they are slowly learning but if they continue to execute so called pushers the only thing that will happen is that part of the operation will get a little more expensive.

most of the production is outside thailand so there is little they can do about that side of things.

[Buff-horns]

the other is to do nothing drastic ,like in the UK , and now the narcotics on sale are so plentifull that drug prices have hit all time lows

home grown skunk weed is driving a crime wave all of its own.

[GuestHouse]

Thailand's war on drugs enjoyed and enjoys massive public support - End of story.

[minbari73]

the other is to do nothing drastic ,like in the UK , and now the narcotics on sale are so plentifull that drug prices have hit all time lows

home grown skunk weed is driving a crime wave all of its own.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Lucky then it's a physical impossibility to die from it then ..huh?

[minbari73]

Thailand's war on drugs enjoyed and enjoys massive public support - End of story.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So that, of course, makes the murder of citizens and anyone in the way, perfectly alright. yes...yes

[Johpa]

Thailand's war on drugs enjoyed and enjoys massive public support - End of story.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So that, of course, makes the murder of citizens and anyone in the way, perfectly alright. yes...yes

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

For those rural Thais who were tired of the violence and crime associated with the yaa baa epidemic and were tired of the flagrant selling of those drugs to their 13 year old children, why yes, they do think it was a correct move and admire Toxin for taking the extrene actions because the crime rate in the villages did fall and the drug sellers did disappear from the school grounds.

Not that I agree with the actions taken, but it is hard to argue with those whose lives had become very worrisome on a day to day basis as a result of that drug epidemic.

[WhiteShiva]

Thailand's war on drugs enjoyed and enjoys massive public support - End of story.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I believe Pol Pots mass killings in Cambodia enjoyed massive public support there as well - there were no complaints from the Cambodians at the time......

[SiamOne]

Thailand's war on drugs enjoyed and enjoys massive public support - End of story.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I believe Pol Pots mass killings in Cambodia enjoyed massive public support there as well - there were no complaints from the Cambodians at the time......

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

well, there were, but those that complained joined the dead ones

I think you are incorrect about massive public support too.

[taxexile]

you cant make an omelette without breaking a few eggs.

its often the case that some innocents will die during the pursuit of criminals.

its not right.

but its unavoidable.

innocents always had to die for the betterment of society.

i think the police forces and the public in many so called developed countries would be only too happy to be allowed to follow thailands example in the way that they dealt with drug dealers and the criminality that emanates from them.

criminals in the west hide behind the law and the veil of human rights legislation that offers great protection to wrongdoers.

honest society wants to live in peace , to bring up their families without hindrance from violence and crime. sometimes a big stick is the only way to deal with it.

drugs were openly sold all day and night on the soi in bangkok where we live , those hooligans operated under police protection and made life miserable for us all , the soi was a filthy dumping ground for some of bangkoks true scum, falangs came here as well buying , derelict falangs , dead on their feet.

if anybody complained there was intimidation.

since thaksins efforts a few years ago our soi is clean , those characters no longer come by , i dont come out of my house in the morning and find druggies asleep on my doorstep in pools of p1ss. our soi is a much better place now.

to compare thaksins actions in trying to rid the country of amphetamines with the actions of the khmer rouge in cambodia is only belittling the lives of the hundreds and thousands of cambodian victims.

[WhiteShiva]

Thailand's war on drugs enjoyed and enjoys massive public support - End of story.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I believe Pol Pots mass killings in Cambodia enjoyed massive public support there as well - there were no complaints from the Cambodians at the time......

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

well, there were, but those that complained joined the dead ones

I think you are incorrect about massive public support too.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Read my post one more time, and then think a little bit. Get it now?

[Guest endure]

The last time there was a 'War on Drugs' it was called the Volstead Act. It didn't work either - apart from establishing organized crime in the USA.

[Tyree D.]

you can't compare the war on drugs with the killing fields. I supported the war on drugs. I don't miss seeing kids all cracked out on yaa baa but I do miss my particular poison being three times cheaper and more potent. Now I wait for the flaming responses.

Tyree rak Thai

ไทรีรักไทย

[girlx]

Thailand's war on drugs enjoyed and enjoys massive public support - End of story.

It has also enjoyed massive dissent from human rights groups... and since now the UN is becoming interested in the goings-on here, it might become much more public.

[girlx]

well, there were (people who disagreed with khmer rouge), but those that complained joined the dead ones

that would never happen in thailand.... hrmmmm.

drugs were openly sold all day and night on the soi in bangkok where we live , those hooligans operated under police protection and made life miserable for us all , the soi was a filthy dumping ground for some of bangkoks true scum, falangs came here as well buying , derelict falangs , dead on their feet.

where the heck did you live in bangkok, klong toey? i have never noticed a visible drug problem in thailand. i am not saying there isn't one, i am saying it can't be that big. in san francisco where i lived a few years ago, it was impossible not to notice.

bottom line is that most governments' ideas of a "drug war" are failing.

Edited September 16, 2005 by girlx

[taxexile]

where the heck did you live in bangkok, klong toey?

yes , thats where i live when i am in bangkok , and the problem was very visible from our living room.

we could hear quite clearly through the windows the buying and selling and the conversations between the police that used to come into the soi and some of the dealers. the soi is very narrow, bikes only and somewhat a world unto itself.

thankfully things are much better now , maybe they just do the deals from inside the shacks at the bottom of the soi and the problem hasnt gone away , its just moved. but there are fewer of the really wasted and dangerous looking characters around now.

but at least it is not outside our door now and for that i am grateful.

[Johpa]

I think you are incorrect about massive public support too.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, Toxin did/does receive massive public support in the mubaans where life was most impacted by the yaa baa epidemic.

[WhiteShiva]

Thailand's war on drugs enjoyed and enjoys massive public support - End of story.

It has also enjoyed massive dissent from human rights groups... and since now the UN is becoming interested in the goings-on here, it might become much more public.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Exactly - if the general public had been aware of just how this "war" was carried out, I doubt there would have been as much support for it. Lots of old scores settled, rivals killed off, and after conveniently planting some pills on the victim, case is closed forever.

To answer another post - my comparison with the Pol pot regime was simply done to point out that "massive support of" or rather "lack of oposition to" does not make the war on drugs (or any killing for that matter) any more justifiable. Both were gross violations of justice and human rights. End of story.

Edited September 20, 2005 by WhiteShiva

[Ned]

You people who support Thaksin's war on drugs are talking like the war brought about some sort of victory. The country's still awash with hard drugs, more expensive than before that' true....so greater the need to steal. HIV is huge.

Glue sniffers , "Come on down and join the growing club". Alcohol sales are booming so let's get flattened, drive home and hammer the wife.

I'm off now for a few cold ones now meself. .....and I'm not talking chilled tubes of glue.

[Heng]

We have our own rules here. End of story.

I spend about half of the week in Pratunam and the other half in Chonburi/Pattaya. IMO the police were pretty darn accurate in regards to getting rid of small time dealers. And the kiddies haven't been that excited about filling the void (the way it works in the west when local corner/turf dealers get busted). They're often doing petty crime and for the more clever, trying to get into gambling type activites. Sure, it's another evil, but I think a lesser one compared to pushing drugs on kids.

[americana]

Kill everyone who spreads the drugs menace, users included

[WhiteShiva]

We have our own rules here.  End of story.

I spend about half of the week in Pratunam and the other half in Chonburi/Pattaya.    IMO the police were pretty darn accurate in regards to getting rid of small time dealers.    And the kiddies haven't been that excited about filling the void (the way it works in the west when local corner/turf dealers get busted).    They're often doing petty crime and for the more clever, trying to get into gambling type activites.  Sure, it's another evil, but I think a lesser one compared to pushing drugs on kids.   

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Heng,

I have no problem with rules, but what exactly are they? Does the PM or the police have the right to decide who gets executed for drug possession? Not according to Thai law. In fact the rules here are being made up as it suits the people in power, and there is no accountability whatsoever.

If the law was carried out in a just and fair manner, a war on drug would probably not have been required in the first place.

And just how many of the big guys were caught/killed............? Nah - didn't think so. Can go around shooting senators and other politicians, can we?

[SiamOne]

Thailand's war on drugs enjoyed and enjoys massive public support - End of story.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I believe Pol Pots mass killings in Cambodia enjoyed massive public support there as well - there were no complaints from the Cambodians at the time......

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

well, there were, but those that complained joined the dead ones

I think you are incorrect about massive public support too.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Read my post one more time, and then think a little bit. Get it now?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

yes, I read your post again, same as the first time. You equated "massive public support" with "no complaints" that, I repeat, is nonsense

don't be so arrogant and patronising

[WhiteShiva]

Thailand's war on drugs enjoyed and enjoys massive public support - End of story.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I believe Pol Pots mass killings in Cambodia enjoyed massive public support there as well - there were no complaints from the Cambodians at the time......

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

well, there were, but those that complained joined the dead ones

I think you are incorrect about massive public support too.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Read my post one more time, and then think a little bit. Get it now?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

yes, I read your post again, same as the first time. You equated "massive public support" with "no complaints" that, I repeat, is nonsense

don't be so arrogant and patronising

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So you are basically saying that you still don't get it?

And if you are going to be angry everytime someone tries to explain things to you, you'd better leave this discussion to the adults.......

[tripperj]

War on drugs 'sparks AIDS spike'

By Ron Corben in Bangkok

September 15, 2005

AUSTRALIA has told Asian countries that tough tactics in their war on drugs have accelerated the spread of HIV/AIDS in the region.

The warning came during a two-day seminar of senior police officers from 12 Asian nations at the Thai seaside resort of Hua Hin.

Australian officials said today Asian countries should pursue alternative harm-reduction programs, such as needle and syringe exchanges, as well as voluntary rehabilitation.

Many officers at the conference came from nations that punish drug offenders and traffickers with long prison terms or the death penalty.

But Peter Mahomet, AusAid's Asia regional HIV/AIDS program manager, said Asian police forces could learn from Australia's strategy of reducing the spread of AIDS among injecting drug users.

"We're trying to encourage police to be supportive and allow injecting drug users to access services that help reduce ... the HIV harm of injecting drugs; providing access to clean needles and syringes to avoid HIV transmission," Mr Mahomet said.

Mr Mahomet, who is based in Hanoi, said Asia's "get tough" drug reduction methods were failing.

Up to 80 per cent of those placed in involuntary rehabilitation centres returned to drugs after trying to give up through cold-turkey methods, he said.

"They spend a lot of money at involuntary rehabilitation centres and as soon as they get out they start using again," he said.

In Thailand, South China, Vietnam and Burma, which have drug trafficking routes, as many as 60 per cent injecting drug users have HIV.

"If we carry on with the current drug-supply reduction strategy and drug-demand reduction strategies, HIV will continue to flourish," he said.

  © The Australian

the australian.new.com.au

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Read the OP, it is about The AIDS/HIV to introvienious users, not yaba user's or small time dealers. Not providing clean needels does NOT stop addicts using! They share needles get HIV, pass it on and increase the problem. Provide needel exchanges and they don't share needels, less get HIV and fewer people die from AIDS!!

How can anyone have an issue with that??

[Heng]

We have our own rules here.   End of story.

I spend about half of the week in Pratunam and the other half in Chonburi/Pattaya.    IMO the police were pretty darn accurate in regards to getting rid of small time dealers.    And the kiddies haven't been that excited about filling the void (the way it works in the west when local corner/turf dealers get busted).     They're often doing petty crime and for the more clever, trying to get into gambling type activites.  Sure, it's another evil, but I think a lesser one compared to pushing drugs on kids.   

Heng,

I have no problem with rules, but what exactly are they? Does the PM or the police have the right to decide who gets executed for drug possession? Not according to Thai law. In fact the rules here are being made up as it suits the people in power, and there is no accountability whatsoever.

If the law was carried out in a just and fair manner, a war on drug would probably not have been required in the first place.

And just how many of the big guys were caught/killed............? Nah - didn't think so. Can go around shooting senators and other politicians, can we?

Sounds like you understand the rules already.

[Scott]

The problem of drug abuse is a complex one that requires a multi-faceted approach. Education is key to helping people understand the dangers and ultimately help make educated choices. Rehabilitation is essential for those caught in the web and who want to get clean. Law enforcement is essential to keep the availability low and prices high, which help most young people avoid the pitfalls. Since most youth don't have a lot of disposable money, this limits their usage to possible experimentation.

Young people are not known for their ability to easily resist temptation or peer pressure--even with good education about the dangers.