Britain To Crackdown On UK Child-Abuse Offenders In Thailand

[david555]

emmigration services in both countries have some job to do - like asking why the person is comimg often to thailand (and refusing entry, if something is not right), why is extending their visa or what was doing in thailand on his visit. There are tell tell signs why somebody is travelling if you watch carefully. The extreme measure is to check luggage and laptop by customs (happens in the usa) for pictures.

the process of selection can start already in consulates issuing visas, at least to compare with police database. Short interviews can be done, if needed, as they are done for thai applying for visas to the uk.

thai, when applying to move or work abroad, are required to present their clean police record - similar can be required by thai consulates and emmigration offices.

also police in both countries can watch out for those on the database and their international movements.

certainly there is a lot to do on thai side, including educational programs and rising social awareness of the problem

Be quiet! Your saying an oil worker who is spending his shore leave in Thailand every 2weeks should be interrogated as to whether he is fiddling with kids ? And have his laptop plundered??

Who resigned and made you the Boss?

i wonder if people is aware that by searching laptop al your other data , innocent one as passwords for Ccards , or anything Else's from your bank files is at sight too..... would poster like that Thai immigration could be seeing that too ....... remember TIT..., but agreed for the criminal record showing before visa , no objection , even something on it could be taking in consideration ...., and all of this on condition Thai police should be whiteout any suspicion , this big job for Thailand to do first ;........ should clean their own house first before blaming other country that should already block many peadophiles....:jap:

[ronz28]

If they really want to crack down... why do they continue to give known offenders passports to go prey on children around the world???

[iamkarlo]

Great news, I hope it helps to start cleaning up Thailand's image

[Gers1873]

my friend told me how warm the welcome party is in there.

it's everywhere in the world.

in some countries, like in the uk, they have special wards, for protection of those prisoners. They might not have long life on the general wards

When I was in my teens in the UK I well remember the dumped naked body of a young boy found in woods near my home. Perpetrator was caught, tried and sentenced. Within months of his incarceration he had the misfortune to fall down a flight of stairs in a fatal 'accident'.

[Gers1873]

If they really want to crack down... why do they continue to give known offenders passports to go prey on children around the world???

Fair point - they can stop known football hooligans from traveling abroad but not known kiddie-fiddlers???

[swillowbee]

... what I find most interesting is that the Brits are now putting investigators on the ground in Thailand to go after paedophiles ... the Americans have had a team in Bangkok for some years ... suspect other police forces are here, too.

... while paedophia is a massive problem, requiring international cooperation, no one can accuse the ROYAL Thai Police of doing its part to arrest, prosecute and incarcerate paedophiles here ... were foreign police investigators not here on the ground searching for paedophiles, I doubt the problem would even merit mention by the ROYAL Thai Police.

... seems an indictment (yet another) of Thai cultural values, that Thais are unwilling to protect even the most vulnerable of their numbers, their own children, from the most deformed of humans, who prey on children.

... maybe better that the ROYAL Thai Police get out of the way and let the foreigners do the job of protecting Thai children.

Edited March 11, 2011 by swillowbee

[Deeral]

From the article: "more than 30,000 paedophiles and child-sex offenders on its watchlist - the UK is not a nation of sex offenders"

Not a nation of sex offenders really??

or a nation of lists?

i think the UK guys will be in or a nasty shock when they get used to the Thai police, who will greet them politiely, take them o many meetings.....and then do sod all.

Edited March 11, 2011 by Deeral

[truethailand]

From the article: "more than 30,000 paedophiles and child-sex offenders on its watchlist - the UK is not a nation of sex offenders"

Not a nation of sex offenders really??

With a population of 60 million, 0.05 percent are on the watch list. That's too many, but it's "not a nation".

That's 1 in 2000. Restrict it to males only (most are), then 1 in 1000. Adults only 20-60 might bring it down to 1 in 700. That's on a watchlist doesn't necessarily mean they're actively chasing.

It's still too few to justify putting every male traveller through a screening process.

The question every male must answer at one time in his life is " Do I want one at 18 or two at 9" Fortunately most of us choose the first one.

[theoldgit]

As has been pointed out already, registered sex offenders are already subject to severe restrictions when wishing to travel overseas, that said because of abolition of embarkation controls at UK ports, offenders, who may be on a watch list, would not be identified when leaving the country, though they could be identified on their return, but by then the damage will have already been done. I think most people are identified by members of the public, not government agencies, this unit really needs to get it's act together and ensure a 'joined up approach' with other government agencies, especially MAPPA, Multi-Agency Public Protection Arrangements.

The figure of 30,000 on their watch list was banded about by one of the team, I'm not sure if this was an off the cuff remark, and whilst I not suggesting that figure is an exaggeration I certainly couldn't find anything like that on their website or their most recent annual report. There have been 624 children safeguarded since the unit was formed in 2006 and 1131 arrests.

I did notice in their report that they have a tracker team that will identify offenders overseas and seek to have them extradited to the UK, so far so good, however I recall the case of the old British guy who was tracked down by SOCA, and simply deported by the Thai authorities, I did say at the time, on the TV forum, that there is a subtle difference to being extradited to a specific country and simply deported from Thailand which means the alleged offender can go to any country that will accept them.

[happyrobert]

From the article: "more than 30,000 paedophiles and child-sex offenders on its watchlist - the UK is not a nation of sex offenders"

Not a nation of sex offenders really??

Yes, but a short time later: Davies insisted that "statistics tell us very little". Throughout the report they seem confused, and as usual, state many things we need to do without out much detail in how to do it.

Davies, and his colleague Tim Gerrish, were in Bangkok earlier this week to exchange views with the Thai police and the Department of Special Investigation (DSI) - a sign that the British government was taking the issue of child-sex offences by UK nationals seriously.

How does an NGO "exchanging views" with a law enforcement farce show that the British Gov is taking this seriously?

It's "measures" like this that empowers the peds, not the children. When governments take seriously the garbage these peds do to kids, they could stop it overnight - without the help from NGO's.

[reason1]

I am back to the point I made first here about defining the offender - the current definitions as I understand them are wide open to abuse of enforcement - would not a good start be for an international agreement on what constitutes child abuse for all and a definition of what is enough to mark a pedophile, almost like a brand so there is nowhere to hide (I mean digitally of course). Still leaves me concerned about the kids forced into The Trade and how that is dealt with, especially if poverty is the cause.

[elshaheen]

in thai jail, the prisoners are ready to welcome the sex offenders. my friend told me how warm the welcome party is in there.

Like group hugs in the showers?

[Markaew]

oh-oh Another crackdown..

Interesting....Is this where the Thai get their "crackdowns"?

[Deeral]

"in thai jail, the prisoners are ready to welcome the sex offenders. my friend told me how warm the welcome party is in there." - how pathetic!Idiots who are inadequate themselves feel that cutting nonces in some way justifies their own crimes - I think those who prpound such things are as bad as the nonces themselves.

[SICHONSTEVE]

emmigration services in both countries have some job to do - like asking why the person is comimg often to thailand (and refusing entry, if something is not right), why is extending their visa or what was doing in thailand on his visit. There are tell tell signs why somebody is travelling if you watch carefully. The extreme measure is to check luggage and laptop by customs (happens in the usa) for pictures.

the process of selection can start already in consulates issuing visas, at least to compare with police database. Short interviews can be done, if needed, as they are done for thai applying for visas to the uk.

thai, when applying to move or work abroad, are required to present their clean police record - similar can be required by thai consulates and emmigration offices.

also police in both countries can watch out for those on the database and their international movements.

certainly there is a lot to do on thai side, including educational programs and rising social awareness of the problem

Be quiet! Your saying an oil worker who is spending his shore leave in Thailand every 2weeks should be interrogated as to whether he is fiddling with kids ? And have his laptop plundered??

Who resigned and made you the Boss?

Most of what you imply could be done IS in fact done - such as having to provide evidence of a clean police record (for a previous term of several years I think). It is a mystery as to how these sex offenders manage to evade these checks and sneak into Thailand and SE Asian countries unchallenged to ply their sick trade. Either money talks or a blind eye is turned to this (both highly doubtful practises that would jeopardise the officer's involved's employment) which beggars the question as to how it is done and allowed to happen. This doesn't apply of course to those paedophiles that have not been prosecuted in their home country as they have either not been caught or have insufficient evidence against a conviction but travel to Asia intent on perpetrating their evil fantasies on some impoverished and largely defencive child victims.

Londonthai is not suggesting that everyone travelling with a laptop has their laptop plundered as you put it and investigated for child porn downloads. Only if their is justification ('in extreme cases') whereby something (someone) has alerted them to suspect something is amiss or they pose a possible risk for whatever reason they have surmised this to be the case - should this severe suitability check be implemented.

I doubt that a paedophile would likely pose as (or get a job) as an oil-worker on a rig simply as cover as to his real reason for being in Thailand - do you?

Your reply to Londonthai's post 'smacks of immaturity' and is a meaningless one not worthy of this "subject" forum!!!

Edited March 11, 2011 by SICHONSTEVE

[Markaew]

From the article: "more than 30,000 paedophiles and child-sex offenders on its watchlist - the UK is not a nation of sex offenders"

Not a nation of sex offenders really??

Yes, but a short time later: Davies insisted that "statistics tell us very little". Throughout the report they seem confused, and as usual, state many things we need to do without out much detail in how to do it.

Davies, and his colleague Tim Gerrish, were in Bangkok earlier this week to exchange views with the Thai police and the Department of Special Investigation (DSI) - a sign that the British government was taking the issue of child-sex offences by UK nationals seriously.

How does an NGO "exchanging views" with a law enforcement farce show that the British Gov is taking this seriously?

It's "measures" like this that empowers the peds, not the children. When governments take seriously the garbage these peds do to kids, they could stop it overnight - without the help from NGO's.

True, but if they stop this overnight then no money could be extorted from the offenders. It's like catching a fish and throwing it back in the water. You can catch it again another day!:jap:

[anterian]

If you actually read the story,you will see this is nothing to do with the UK government.

A couple of NGOs are out to make some money for themselves, they are quoted as not bothering to track down 'hotspots' of such activity around the world.

When asked to compare the severity of the situation in Thailand vis-?-vis other nations, both Davies and Gerrish said such comparisons were unhelpful.

"We will not look for hot spots because it limits our work," Gerrish said, adding that the centre might "miss what is going on elsewhere"

as a result. Though CEOP has contacts in South American and Eastern European nations, Davies insisted that "statistics tell us very little".

So I assume they are just visiting places that will get them free publicity, news reports and a bit of cash for their organisation. Gerrish also seems to have a bit of a penchant for visits to Thailand.

In other words, Thai bashing!

A sensible comment, a couple of publicity seeking busybodies. The sex register has recently come under attack in the UK, there are a very small number of genuine serial offenders, most cases are one off opportunistic family members or friends. By far the most paedophile activity in Thailand is Thai on Thai, it is only in the hotspots like Pattaya that farangs get a look in, but then these guys are ignoring hot spots, that in itself is strange.

[thaibeachlovers]

If you actually read the story,you will see this is nothing to do with the UK government.

A couple of NGOs are out to make some money for themselves, they are quoted as not bothering to track down 'hotspots' of such activity around the world.

When asked to compare the severity of the situation in Thailand vis-?-vis other nations, both Davies and Gerrish said such comparisons were unhelpful.

"We will not look for hot spots because it limits our work," Gerrish said, adding that the centre might "miss what is going on elsewhere"

as a result. Though CEOP has contacts in South American and Eastern European nations, Davies insisted that "statistics tell us very little".

So I assume they are just visiting places that will get them free publicity, news reports and a bit of cash for their organisation. Gerrish also seems to have a bit of a penchant for visits to Thailand.

In other words, Thai bashing!

You've hit the nail on the head!

Perhaps they should actually be going to the US, which according to an article I recently read has the highest rate of child abuse in the world.

But it wouldn't be such an "exotic" destination, nudge nudge, would it!

[pepi2005]

It's in the nature of NGO's to dramatize problems to justify the funds they receive.

That being said, it's dramatical enough, and I would like to see similar 'crackdowns' on rural and interfamiliar abuse in Thailand as well.

[janderton]

still waiting for the very first Crackdown On THAI citizens Child-Abuse Offenders In Thailand ...

seems like not much people pay attention (or have idea) of how many brothels (with child workers) ther are countrywide .... and the patrons are just thai citizens

http://www.sexwork.c...land/child.html

...However in the local brothels for Thai men, where prostitution has flourished for centuries as part of local tradition so does child prostitution.

Edited March 11, 2011 by janderton

[Deeral]

Pssshhh - I in NO way condone the behaviour of child sex offenders etc - but I think people in general need to clean up their own back yard before they go knocking on their neighbours door - pedophilia in Asian countries is massively dominated by locals............Britain a "nation of sex child sex offenders"??? Get a grip!!!! <deleted>!!!

I get your point - but......

THere are a lot of thoroughly ignorant posters on TV. Their posts are simply busts of baseless accusations and prejudices that they consider to be be valid arguments - when child sex offenders - or as Thai visa likes to call them "Kiddy-fiddlers" (I ask you!) the dogs are let lose.The following columns will be a cesspit for every bigoted and ignorant opinion that the ex-pat community can muster.

[thaibeachlovers]

emmigration services in both countries have some job to do - like asking why the person is comimg often to thailand (and refusing entry, if something is not right), why is extending their visa or what was doing in thailand on his visit. There are tell tell signs why somebody is travelling if you watch carefully. The extreme measure is to check luggage and laptop by customs (happens in the usa) for pictures.

the process of selection can start already in consulates issuing visas, at least to compare with police database. Short interviews can be done, if needed, as they are done for thai applying for visas to the uk.

thai, when applying to move or work abroad, are required to present their clean police record - similar can be required by thai consulates and emmigration offices.

also police in both countries can watch out for those on the database and their international movements.

certainly there is a lot to do on thai side, including educational programs and rising social awareness of the problem

Be quiet! Your saying an oil worker who is spending his shore leave in Thailand every 2weeks should be interrogated as to whether he is fiddling with kids ? And have his laptop plundered??

Who resigned and made you the Boss?

Most of what you imply could be done IS in fact done - such as having to provide evidence of a clean police record (for a previous term of several years I think). It is a mystery as to how these sex offenders manage to evade these checks and sneak into Thailand and SE Asian countries unchallenged to ply their sick trade. Either money talks or a blind eye is turned to this (both highly doubtful practises that would jeopardise the officer's involved's employment) which beggars the question as to how it is done and allowed to happen. This doesn't apply of course to those paedophiles that have not been prosecuted in their home country as they have either not been caught or have insufficient evidence against a conviction but travel to Asia intent on perpetrating their evil fantasies on some impoverished and largely defencive child victims.

Loser1 is not suggesting that everyone travelling with a laptop has their laptop plundered as you put it and investigated for child porn downloads. Only if their is justification ('in extreme cases') whereby something (someone) has alerted them to suspect something is amiss or they pose a possible risk for whatever reason they have surmised this to be the case - should this severe suitability check be implemented.

I doubt that a paedophile would likely pose as (or get a job) as an oil-worker on a rig simply as cover as to his real reason for being in Thailand - do you?

Your reply to Loser1's post 'smacks of immaturity' and is a meaningless one not worthy of this "subject" forum!!!

In YOUR opinion! I think he's got it right! I have been to Thailand more times than I can remember in the past many years, and I don't see why I should have to justify my visits to anyone!

As for the subject, there's a lot of huffing and puffing about supposed farang child sex in Thailand, but I've only seen a few arrests reported for such, and a lot of them seem more of an attemp to extort money than genuine cases. As said, most paedophilia is Thai on Thai, and I doubt the intepid duo will be getting involved in that scene!

So, does anyone have any actual facts on the number of British paedophiles in Thailand, and the number of CONVICTIONS of such, in Thailand, or is this just another "hang em high" thread?

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Regarding definitions - someone mentioned not being at fault if you can't tell a 15yo from a 17yo.

BE CAREFUL!

The law here is 20 if there is any hint of being a commercial transaction. In practice, I've had local police tell me 18 should be safe enough, but then again I've also seen police involved in blackmail schemes, and one cop's opinion won't help you if you get caught up with the bigger fish. Even in the case of true entrapment, no one will believe that you're the victim, so just avoid any situation where that's a possibility. This is the reality - deal with it.

The true definition of paedophile has nothing to do with it, the idea of statutory rape is being defined internationally as 18+, no matter the local custom.

And yes it is 100% the man's responsibility to know the age of his service provider. If you get deceived, tough cookies - I've run into situations where the girl and even her mother actually didn't know her true age, birthdays just aren't important here to the rural poor. And even if they do know, basically they will tell you what they think you want to hear to get your money (sometimes up, sometimes down). And no of course family selling their under-age girl won't be prosecuted - they will be considered victims by authorities, the only villain is the foreigner. IMO fair enough, but even if you don't agree, tough cookies, that's the reality - deal with it.

If it's not a commercial arrangement, in practice according to local custom, if you have the fully informed consent of the parents, and are genuinely marrying the girl (good Sin Sot of course) then no one local will look at you sideways, but under 18 it is in fact illegal and good luck trying to explain things to any concerned authorities, Thai or international.

And of course these types of laws are only enforced with foreigners, the laws were only created as a result of pressure from the west in the first place, so why should they be inflicted on the local population?

Both the US and the UK have not only very active NGOs but government-paid law enforcement specifically here for this purpose - also and in Cambodia and Vietnam. And the myriad more law enforcement/intelligence operators here for other reasons are now much more likely to report in any blatant under-age situation, and usually followed up on vigorously - fair enough.

There are also some very effective **local** Thai NGOs that publish phone numbers for people to report such crimes, and they have their own law enforcement units to call in that are independent of the usual police. These latter don't specifically target foreigners, but just as at home, everyone loves a scapegoat from outside to set examples. People will always be able to get away with more in their home country than what they can do overseas, and again IMO fair enough. Sure most child abuse happens within the family but what does that have to do with anything, no one ever claimed law enforcement was fair, and here they don't even give the idea lip service - deal with it!

So how do you avoid problems? Get to know the Thai year counting system, and always get a copy of the ID card, Where you actually draw the line is your business - I recommend 20 myself, but at least be informed about what you are doing - ignorance will never be an excuse, except perhaps when it's just a local matter and your excuse is accompanied by a wad of cash.

If she doesn't have an ID card? Run away, no matter how cute (or professional) she might be - once past 15 they **must** have an ID card on them at all times. To be really safe, take a copy of the card and put it in a safe place. If you don't want to be the bad guy, just take her to a hotel that requires this, where you've arranged things with the desk staff.

Same goes with any Thai employee, or with whom you do any business, or allow to enter your home. Thailand might not be an efficient police state, but it is a police state; the government keeps close tabs on everyone and they are used to submitting to authority - take advantage of that to protect yourself.

Oh and by the way - the contents of your computer is subject to full search and even seizure at any border, not just the US. And any sort of porn is usually illegal in most countries, subject to especially harsh penalties in Asia - anyone who carries anything like that around in the clear with them internationally deserves long jail time just for being stupid!!

And of **course** you should fully encrypt passwords and bank account numbers. Wake up and grow up people! Making excuses and whining about such things not being fair is IMO nothing short of pathetic, and dangerous.

Hope this helps those who are willing to listen.

[Orac]

Until the Thai legal system takes the matter more seriously with proper enforcement and punishment then all these foreign agencies can do is scratch the surface. The reason that so many child sex offenders come to SE Asia is there is very little risk of them being caught - just the odd token arrest with erratic punishment depending on the finances of the offender in a lot of cases.

I passed a bar last week that was widely reported as being raided by RTP in conjunction with the "greymen" last year and 3 x 15 yr old girls found working there. I am not sure what happenned to the western 'owners' of the place but the place was certainly up and running again with some very young looking girls outside. According to another forum business there has gone through the roof since they got the free advertising as well!

[pepi2005]

Don't blame the Thais for this press announcement - it's from a British NGO which obviously needs more funds to keep their program, staff salary etc. going.

What many people forget especially about all these countless 'anti child abuse NGO's' in Southeast Asia : the Western people living from are going into the thousands these days, and at least for Cambodia I know that they are living in expensive villas and are having parties once or twice every weeks ... these yuppies and foreign students need to keep the money flowing, that's why we are presented dramatic reports about the rate of Western child abuse almost twice every week in SE Asian countries. In the West, where people can't make up their own picture, they are shocked and want to support 'cleaning up' this 'dirty' part of the world. Often enough it's tax money that is being spent of course as well.

[theoldgit]

Don't blame the Thais for this press announcement - it's from a British NGO which obviously needs more funds to keep their program, staff salary etc. going.

They are not an NGO, they are a police agency.

[yellow1red1]

emmigration services in both countries have some job to do - like asking why the person is comimg often to thailand (and refusing entry, if something is not right), why is extending their visa or what was doing in thailand on his visit. There are tell tell signs why somebody is travelling if you watch carefully. The extreme measure is to check luggage and laptop by customs (happens in the usa) for pictures.

the process of selection can start already in consulates issuing visas, at least to compare with police database. Short interviews can be done, if needed, as they are done for thai applying for visas to the uk.

thai, when applying to move or work abroad, are required to present their clean police record - similar can be required by thai consulates and emmigration offices.

also police in both countries can watch out for those on the database and their international movements.

certainly there is a lot to do on thai side, including educational programs and rising social awareness of the problem

credit checks could be added to your list.

[sirchai]

From the article: "more than 30,000 paedophiles and child-sex offenders on its watchlist - the UK is not a nation of sex offenders"

Not a nation of sex offenders really??

Gerrish said his government had more than 30,000 paedophiles and child-sex offenders on its watchlist,

Doesn't more than 30,000 mean that there're much more? :jap:

[sirchai]

in thai jail, the prisoners are ready to welcome the sex offenders. my friend told me how warm the welcome party is in there.

Like group hugs in the showers?

Or too hard toothbrushes that kick all teeth out? Is it possible that there's one missing zero? :jap:

[pepi2005]

They are not an NGO, they are a police agency.

same same, though different (as long as they get paid for it and the department has its own, dedicated budget).