Do Brits Know More About Beer Than The Rest Of Us?

[mark45y]

Do Brits know more about beer than the rest of us?

I used to brew beer and teach courses on brewing, distilling and making wine. I also taught cooking courses and hired chefs for a large hotel chain.

My readings and speaking with people from all over the world has convinced me that British people know more about beer than the average bloke. They have a more sensitive palate and because they eat few spicy foods it remains sensitive to the subtleties of beer.

The variety of beers available to the average Brit is greater than most other countries and the pub culture is more ingrained in the lifestyle.

The American beer tradition was akin to the Brits with thousands of small breweries until the advent of Prohibition and the refrigerated rail road car. Both of those factors wiped out a large and varied English and German brewing community. Although America's micro brewing industry is growing the average Yank is still not in the same league as the average Brit when it comes to beer knowledge and sophistication.

Fast food like MacDonald's and fish and chip shops have and are contributing to the dumbing down of food and beverage knowledge and tastes. Large food and beverage chains are convincing people that french fries smothered in peppers and cheese sauce are the height of culinary excellence. Or that Taco Bell somehow represents Mexican cooking.

When one suggests that education can contribute to an understanding food and wine one is referred to as an elitist snob.

From another thread I said, “Bordeaux Wine Official Classification of 1855.

The wines were ranked in importance from first to fifth growths (crus). All of the red wines that made it on the list came from the Médoc region except for one: Château Haut-Brion from Graves. The white wines, then of much less importance than red wine, were limited to the sweet varieties of Sauternes and Barsac and were ranked only from first great growth to second growth.

Not much has changed since 1855. The great vineyards and wine they produce is about the same.

Do you understand or appreciate these wines from birth? Nope. It takes education and experience.

The appreciation of fine wines and great food is made possible by education and experience and exposure.

If you have a low class upbringing eating mostly starches and boiled meats that is what you will like.

If you grew up eating cayenne peppers mashed with spoiled freshwater crabs and shredded unripe fruit topped off with BBQ rat and Jello for dessert that is what you will like.

There is a major difference between bouillabaisse and steamed whole carp with some cockles thrown in.

Are you ready to spend 60,000 baht for a decent bottle of wine and 30,000 baht for dinner?

If you can't appreciate it, it would be a waste of money.

I used to buy wines for restaurants. To learn I spent years in school and at wine tastings. I belonged to a club where 8 of us would all chip in to buy one bottle of good wine so we each could have a small glass. It is the only way to learn. Education and hands on experience with a knowledgeable teacher.

You seem to think food is somehow different than other subjects that are taught. It is not. There are standards of excellence in both food and wine that are centuries old.

Don't confuse what you like with what is really excellent. They may or may not be the same thing.

A good wine is worth 150,000 baht. A table wine 600 baht. Do you really think there are not people who are competent to set the price? People blend whiskeys. People blend teas. These are people with both the education and experience to do so.

Food and wine are both a science and an art. To really appreciate them takes education and experience and money.

You drive a car, I presume. Does that car driving experience qualify you to drive a formula one machine? Do you think formula one drivers go to school? Do you think they train with experienced drivers? Do you think the mechanics and designers are any different than cooks and chefs? Do you think poor people know the thrill of driving a Ferrari? No, of course not. “

And Tropo responded, “I understand exactly where you are coming from. You believe good taste should arrive through education. I believe nature has taken care of good and bad taste and no education is required to decide what is good to eat.

The market for expensive food (and wine) is created through brainwashing people to believe in this fabled "elite taste" and they make their sales.”

[lomatopo]

de gustibus non est disputandum

[Totster]

The American beer tradition was akin to the Brits

American beer.. 5555555555555555

totster :lol:

[mark45y]

The American beer tradition was akin to the Brits

American beer.. 5555555555555555

totster :lol:

People just don't read. I said the American tradition. In 1860, nearly 200 breweries operated in Wisconsin, over 40 in Milwaukee alone. Virtually every town had a brewery and in some cases, towns formed around breweries. America had thousands of good local breweries until Prohibition. That changed things. Now America is coming back with micro breweries but still has a long way to go with acceptance among the public at large.

[Totster]

The American beer tradition was akin to the Brits

American beer.. 5555555555555555

totster :lol:

People just don't read. I said the American tradition. In 1860, nearly 200 breweries operated in Wisconsin, over 40 in Milwaukee alone. Virtually every town had a brewery and in some cases, towns formed around breweries. America had thousands of good local breweries until Prohibition. That changed things. Now America is coming back with micro breweries but still has a long way to go with acceptance among the public at large.

Oh I read it, it's just that whenever I see or hear the words 'American beer' in any context it makes me laugh.. that's all.

totster

[mark45y]

The American beer tradition was akin to the Brits

American beer.. 5555555555555555

totster :lol:

People just don't read. I said the American tradition. In 1860, nearly 200 breweries operated in Wisconsin, over 40 in Milwaukee alone. Virtually every town had a brewery and in some cases, towns formed around breweries. America had thousands of good local breweries until Prohibition. That changed things. Now America is coming back with micro breweries but still has a long way to go with acceptance among the public at large.

Oh I read it, it's just that whenever I see or hear the words 'American beer' in any context it makes me laugh.. that's all.

totster

I hate to wax poetic about it but America was such a great beer nation once upon a time. Large populations from England, Germany and Holland settled in different parts of the country and all established breweries. They brought their yeast with them and grew the hops and barley in the States. All the great traditions in brew making were represented in one country. Prohibition wiped out a culture. It was like a beer genocide. I still get tears in my eyes thinking about it.

[lomatopo]

Britons think they know more about everything than anyone else. That's what makes them unique, interesting and often humorous. They probably know more (whatever that means) about Ale than most? While Germans probably know more about lager? Arguably, with Pub consolidation in England real ale is certainly harder to find than it once was. I assume they have most consumption, per capita, of mass-produced Ale in the world.

Seriously, every country/locale has its own unique 'alcohol' culture. Why not appreciate them all? Or not.

Craft brewing in the U.S.is definitely growing, even in a poor economic climate, as is home-brewing.

US Breweries July 31, 2010

Brewpubs 994

Microbreweries 534

Regional Craft Breweries 71

Total US Craft Breweries 1,599

Large Non-Craft Breweries 20

Other Breweries 21

Total US Breweries 1,640*

* The most since Prohibition.

[bkkjames]

As a canuck: I say the Germans know more about beer than both of you.

[carmine]

As a canuck: I say the Germans know more about beer than both of you.

Don't forget the Belgiums.

The English will also clearly differentiate between beer (ale) and lager.

American beer is nats piss.

[mstribling]

I really like Chang beer.

[mark45y]

As a canuck: I say the Germans know more about beer than both of you.

Making German beer is certainly more difficult from a technical standpoint. They use different yeasts and are forbidden by law from using any sugar.

English beers are less temperature sensitive and adapt to being made in warmer climates better.

I am not an expert on Canadian beer but it seems to me there were many more available 40 years ago than today. I also never liked the state store concept for selling beer.

When I first got to SEA I used to have Canadian Dow Cream Porter shipped from Toronto to Bangkok. It cost a small fortune and I only did it a couple of times.

[bkkjames]

As a canuck: I say the Germans know more about beer than both of you.

Making German beer is certainly more difficult from a technical standpoint. They use different yeasts and are forbidden by law from using any sugar.

English beers are less temperature sensitive and adapt to being made in warmer climates better.

I am not an expert on Canadian beer but it seems to me there were many more available 40 years ago than today. I also never liked the state store concept for selling beer.

When I first got to SEA I used to have Canadian Dow Cream Porter shipped from Toronto to Bangkok. It cost a small fortune and I only did it a couple of times.

Well I am not interested in debating CDN versus USA beer : I used to like drinking 20 PBR's while golfing in the US way back when in the day. Needless to say i spent more time in the rough looking for a tree to relieve myself on that looking for my balls.

[mark45y]

As a canuck: I say the Germans know more about beer than both of you.

Making German beer is certainly more difficult from a technical standpoint. They use different yeasts and are forbidden by law from using any sugar.

English beers are less temperature sensitive and adapt to being made in warmer climates better.

I am not an expert on Canadian beer but it seems to me there were many more available 40 years ago than today. I also never liked the state store concept for selling beer.

When I first got to SEA I used to have Canadian Dow Cream Porter shipped from Toronto to Bangkok. It cost a small fortune and I only did it a couple of times.

Well I am not interested in debating CDN versus USA beer : I used to like drinking 20 PBR's while golfing in the US way back when in the day. Needless to say i spent more time in the rough looking for a tree to relieve myself on that looking for my balls.

It is easier in Thailand there is always someone to look after your balls.

[dananderson]

Not much has changed in wine and the vineyards that produce them...eh? Apparently you are not aware of the competitions that began in 1976 where California vineyards trumped those in France. In France no less with French judges. http://www.wineintro.com/history/regions/1976tasting.html

[transam]

Being English and spending a lifetime sampling many Real Ale's (real beer) from all corners of my country, l was very disappointed with the beer in the USA during my trips there, and l have been E-W and N-S. Most stuff seemed like, well just plain awful lagerish, until we got to Key West and found Bass (UK) on tap. What a relief that was.

For me English Real Ale is like wine, none are the same, every one is unique.

[mark45y]

Not much has changed in wine and the vineyards that produce them...eh? Apparently you are not aware of the competitions that began in 1976 where California vineyards trumped those in France. In France no less with French judges. http://www.wineintro.com/history/regions/1976tasting.html

That is actually my point. There are people who can tell a great wine from a cheap wine. The people in 1855 who classified the French vineyards would have also been able to tell the excellence of Californian vineyards. The excellence of a wine establishes it's price not the reverse.

Finding out how to judge wines takes a lot of study and experience. It also takes a lot of cash. It is not some marketing ploy.

A person raised on Budweiser is not going to make a very good judge of excellence in beers.

Once you know about ales it is not much of a stretch to learn about other beers. There are German beers and British beers the rest are combinations or descendent's of those two brewing styles.

My basic point is that education or cultural values are necessary to appreciate good food and or beer or wine. I am not trying to dictate tastes but there is a difference between good food and average food. Som tom is not an example of culinary excellence nor is beer Chang beer. I could like som tom or Chang beer but I would never imply they great examples of excellence in cooking or brewing.

[Totster]

Britons think they know more about everything than anyone else. That's what makes them unique, interesting and often humorous. They probably know more (whatever that means) about Ale than most? While Germans probably know more about lager? Arguably, with Pub consolidation in England real ale is certainly harder to find than it once was. I assume they have most consumption, per capita, of mass-produced Ale in the world.

Seriously, every country/locale has its own unique 'alcohol' culture. Why not appreciate them all? Or not.

Craft brewing in the U.S.is definitely growing, even in a poor economic climate, as is home-brewing.

US Breweries July 31, 2010

Brewpubs 994

Microbreweries 534

Regional Craft Breweries 71

Total US Craft Breweries 1,599

Large Non-Craft Breweries 20

Other Breweries 21

Total US Breweries 1,640*

* The most since Prohibition.

Real ale is not hard to find, most pubs have at least one ale on tap, it may be a mass produced one, but still an ale. There are also lots of pubs that specialise in real ale and ciders, and they are always very busy places as a result. I think I counted at least 4-5 beer festivals in Cheltenham alone last summer, featuring the best ales and ciders from around the local area.

Consumption of real ale may have declined after the introduction of lagers, but we never lost the taste for it or the skill to make it, real ales are definitely surging again.

totster

[mark45y]

Being English and spending a lifetime sampling many Real Ale's (real beer) from all corners of my country, l was very disappointed with the beer in the USA during my trips there, and l have been E-W and N-S. Most stuff seemed like, well just plain awful lagerish, until we got to Key West and found Bass (UK) on tap. What a relief that was.

For me English Real Ale is like wine, none are the same, every one is unique.

For the average American to get to where you are in your ability to appreciate beer he is going to have to go to school and or go to Britain and drink a lot of beer. The average American micro brew master does exactly that. The California vineyard owners go to college and normally have spent years in France working and learning from the masters in the field. The average chef also spends years in college and working as an apprentice to acquire his skill. French food, English and German beers they are the pinnacle of the art. To really understand beer and food you first must understand French food, English and German beer then you can move on to the rest.

[Beechboy]

The pub culture is declining in England and the traditional choice of drink is changing too.

Stricter enforcement of drink-drive laws means that many a country pub has more or less changed to a restaurant cum pub. Excellent "pub food" has helped keep the tradition of pub going alive. It is usually cheaper than you might find in an average restaurant.

The no-smoking rule in pubs brought in a few years ago was another nail in the coffin, whilst increased taxes "at the pumps" have not helped.

Add all this up and many Brits now would prefer to stay at home drinking low (very) priced beer from the likes of Tesco and Asda (Wall-Mart) etc. The traditional concept of "The Local" (as portrayed in Coronation Strreet, if you know this piece of dross T.V.,) has largely disappeared. Small back-street pubs are closing by the day.

In attempts to fight back, pubs show sport (usually football) supplied by Sky on big screen televisions. This costs a lot however.

Disco pubs in town centres are now popular and benefit from the more lax (24hrs.) drinking laws. The average age of the pub-goer has decreased in the last decade.

Many a town centre pub has to have a dual personality these days. Providing drink and food to shoppers and office workers during the day and becoming a "disco" at night for youngsters.

There has been a massive switch from ale to lager in the last 20/30 years, although every town has one or two real ale pubs, usually supplied in part by a nearby micro-brewery. Some pubs has revived the old tradition of brewing on-site.

Real ale at it's best is an excellent drink. Usually very strong and always an acquired taste. It is often given aggressive names to indicate its' strength and one called "Dog's <deleted>" springs to mind. "Old Thumper," is another. Some reach 7-8% in strength, but beware.

I do not think the Brits know more about beer than anybody else. Moreso, the drinking scene there is very unique.

Edited March 11, 2011 by Beechboy

[smokie36]

Belgian beer is excellent as a rule. Germans produce the best lagers by a mile and us Brits do well at both.

I wonder if its possible to be an expert in tasting both wine and beer though?

Although I enjoy a glass of red with a steak and can tell the difference between a good and bad wine I couldn't honestly rate one good wine over another really.

With beer if you gave me 20 to taste I could place them all in order I reckon.

I've yet to taste an American beer or lager worthy of more than one visit.

edit <sp>

Edited March 11, 2011 by smokie36

[Totster]

I do not think the Brits know more about beer than anybody else. Moreso, the drinking scene there is very unique.

I tend to agree the Brits do not know more than others about beer, but we do have the 'taste' to know a good beer.

totster

[Totster]

With beer if you gave me 20 to taste I could place them all in order I reckon.

I'm not sure that your order would be the same as someone else's though. One person may favour a lighter sweeter beer, while others will want a heavier more bitter beer, that's the beauty of real ale.

http://www.camra.org.uk

totster

[mark45y]

Belgian beer is excellent as a rule. Germans produce the best lagers by a mile and us Brits do well at both.

I wonder if its possible to be an expert in tasting both wine and beer though?

Although I enjoy a glass of red with a steak and can tell the difference between a good and bad wine I couldn't honestly rate one good wine over another really.

With beer if you gave me 20 to taste I could place them all in order I reckon.

I've yet to taste an American beer or lager worthy of more than one visit.

edit <sp>

I have never been a beer or wine taster. I have been a whiskey blender/taster.

Of course beer has to be tasted. Just measuring ingredients the same every batch will not produce the same beer as the strength and flavor of the malt and hops changes.

I thought the whiskey job would be fun but they insisted we eat nothing spicy and spit out the whiskey after each taste. Perhaps they have machines that do it now buy way back when it was all done by taste. Crown Royal is a blend and tastes the same batch after batch as do most blended Scotches. As far as I know that is a result of human blending of spirits.

Anchor Steam beer (American) has been around for a long time (1896) is not a bad beer.

[lomatopo]

American beer is nats piss.

I am forever amazed at the breadth of knowledge and experience on the ThaiVisa forum. That someone actually is a connoisseur of insect urine is somehow not surprising. (Assuming you are speaking of gnat's urine and not your friend Nathaniel's urine, of course.)

Real ale is not hard to find, most pubs have at least one ale on tap, it may be a mass produced one, but still an ale. There are also lots of pubs that specialise in real ale and ciders, and they are always very busy places as a result. I think I counted at least 4-5 beer festivals in Cheltenham alone last summer, featuring the best ales and ciders from around the local area.

Consumption of real ale may have declined after the introduction of lagers, but we never lost the taste for it or the skill to make it, real ales are definitely surging again.

totster

When most speak of "Real Ale" they are referring to hand-pumped "cask-conditioned" ale. I do not believe that most pubs in England serve "Real Ale", although this definition is admittedly very restrictive.

[dananderson]

My favorite beer's are: original Swiss Lowenbrow dark, Newcastle brown and Petes wicked pale ale(US)

[Totster]

Real ale is not hard to find, most pubs have at least one ale on tap, it may be a mass produced one, but still an ale. There are also lots of pubs that specialise in real ale and ciders, and they are always very busy places as a result. I think I counted at least 4-5 beer festivals in Cheltenham alone last summer, featuring the best ales and ciders from around the local area.

Consumption of real ale may have declined after the introduction of lagers, but we never lost the taste for it or the skill to make it, real ales are definitely surging again.

totster

When most speak of "Real Ale" they are referring to hand-pumped "cask-conditioned" ale. I do not believe that most pubs in England serve "Real Ale", although this definition is admittedly very restrictive.

Yes, you are quite right.. I was careful not to refer to the mass produced stuff as real ale, however in most of the pubs I have been to in my area Wadworths 6X is available, which is hand pumped and a cask ale.

totster

[mstribling]

I stopped drinking beer when I got out of the Army.

I drink spirits now i'm full grown.

Every now and then i'll have a few when the sun is up. Usually a Chang here in Thailand, or a Shiner back home in Texas.

Like Mark is leading us too. It is something that is learned to appreciate.

Myself, being a low class person, cannot appreciate the subtleties of food or drink.

I have never developed a palate for it.

Now BBQ on the other hand

I'm not sure but isn't most beer brewed to compliment the regional food?

[mark45y]

I stopped drinking beer when I got out of the Army.

I drink spirits now i'm full grown.

Every now and then i'll have a few when the sun is up. Usually a Chang here in Thailand, or a Shiner back home in Texas.

Like Mark is leading us too. It is something that is learned to appreciate.

Myself, being a low class person, cannot appreciate the subtleties of food or drink.

I have never developed a palate for it.

Now BBQ on the other hand

I'm not sure but isn't most beer brewed to compliment the regional food?

Which came first beer or bread?

[mstribling]

Bread

[transam]

American beer is nats piss.

I am forever amazed at the breadth of knowledge and experience on the ThaiVisa forum. That someone actually is a connoisseur of insect urine is somehow not surprising. (Assuming you are speaking of gnat's urine and not your friend Nathaniel's urine, of course.)

Real ale is not hard to find, most pubs have at least one ale on tap, it may be a mass produced one, but still an ale. There are also lots of pubs that specialise in real ale and ciders, and they are always very busy places as a result. I think I counted at least 4-5 beer festivals in Cheltenham alone last summer, featuring the best ales and ciders from around the local area.

Consumption of real ale may have declined after the introduction of lagers, but we never lost the taste for it or the skill to make it, real ales are definitely surging again.

totster

When most speak of "Real Ale" they are referring to hand-pumped "cask-conditioned" ale. I do not believe that most pubs in England serve "Real Ale", although this definition is admittedly very restrictive.

You are right, unfortunately in UK it's now becoming about how cool a pub looks like and it is very disappointing when one ventures inside to see what's on offer. Like most stuff, all about money. But saying that, for the connoisseur it is out there. Me, Norfolk Woodford's Ales are the pinnacle of real ale mastery.