Helpin Elderly Foreigners In Need In Chiang Mai

[newtronbom]

Personally, I don't think that those of us that are living here, whether comfortably or otherwise for many years, should feel obligated to, or be asked to pay for or subsidize in any way, the bad luck or poor decisions of someone they have never met. Having said that, misfortune can strike any of us at any time, so we must never forget that we are all human beings and as such, we should maintain the ability to feel sympathy or at least some understanding, towards anyone who is in obvious need of help. Possibly many of these aging or disadvantaged people, do have the financial assets or income to enable them to live here, but for many various different reasons, they are unable to take care of themselves properly or lack the ability to do so. I personally think, that as these very same people in need here, would be a financial burden on the Government or medical institutions of their home country, were they living there, and that as the cost of living and medical expenses here are so much cheaper than it would be back home, it would not hurt the major embassies here too much and may cost whichever government less in the long run in fact, to set aside funds - perhaps all donate to a common pool - to assist anyone in dire need of assistance. One of the many things I love about Thai culture, is the way Thai families tend to take care and responsibility for the elderly. Unlike us, who in most cases, toss our elderly at some "rest home" or "Palliative care center" and try to forget them. I don't say we all do this, but do some research, the facts will shock you/or not. How hard would it be, to employ someone or some group, to keep track of these needy disadvantaged people, make sure that they are getting medical treatment, inform their families back home if any, of their situation, make sure they have made a will, liaise with the Thai family if there are any and find out any special needs the person may have, that the Thai family can not deal with. I personally know of a couple of cases where the Thai family is happily and lovingly caring for an elderly Westerner at their own expense. The mans wife in another case I know of, is still selling jewelery at a local market, to take care of her Falang husband, when she could have gotten rid of him ages ago. This guy has no income from home so is a total burden! Though I am in no position financially to help anyone else, I do speak fluent Thai(married for 8 years to Thai wife), know the medical system well and have the spare time, so I would happily take on a position like this, to give something back to the system which supported me, if it would genuinely help and make a difference to the quality of life, or especially save the life of someone like this in need.That there is obviously a need, is without a doubt if you look around most major cities.

Edited March 22, 2011 by newtronbom

[MAJORUS]

Thanks for such an apt post ,you have hit the nail right on the head.I could not agree with you more ,hopefully very soon we will be able to co-ordinate all of the various groups and interested parties into one organized operation that can deal with the various Thai departments concerned with the backing of all Embassies and Consulates to solve this problem.We have already made some very successful moves towards this.Will be delighted to meet you at our next meeting at the Raintree Resource Centre 6th April 5.30pm.Regards MAJORUS

Personally, I don't think that those of us that are living here, whether comfortably or otherwise for many years, should feel obligated to, or be asked to pay for or subsidize in any way, the bad luck or poor decisions of someone they have never met. Having said that, misfortune can strike any of us at any time, so we must never forget that we are all human beings and as such, we should maintain the ability to feel sympathy or at least some understanding, towards anyone who is in obvious need of help. Possibly many of these aging or disadvantaged people, do have the financial assets or income to enable them to live here, but for many various different reasons, they are unable to take care of themselves properly or lack the ability to do so. I personally think, that as these very same people in need here, would be a financial burden on the Government or medical institutions of their home country, were they living there, and that as the cost of living and medical expenses here are so much cheaper than it would be back home, it would not hurt the major embassies here too much and may cost whichever government less in the long run in fact, to set aside funds - perhaps all donate to a common pool - to assist anyone in dire need of assistance. One of the many things I love about Thai culture, is the way Thai families tend to take care and responsibility for the elderly. Unlike us, who in most cases, toss our elderly at some "rest home" or "Palliative care center" and try to forget them. I don't say we all do this, but do some research, the facts will shock you/or not. How hard would it be, to employ someone or some group, to keep track of these needy disadvantaged people, make sure that they are getting medical treatment, inform their families back home if any, of their situation, make sure they have made a will, liaise with the Thai family if there are any and find out any special needs the person may have, that the Thai family can not deal with. I personally know of a couple of cases where the Thai family is happily and lovingly caring for an elderly Westerner at their own expense. The mans wife in another case I know of, is still selling jewelery at a local market, to take care of her Falang husband, when she could have gotten rid of him ages ago. This guy has no income from home so is a total burden! Though I am in no position financially to help anyone else, I do speak fluent Thai(married for 8 years to Thai wife), know the medical system well and have the spare time, so I would happily take on a position like this, to give something back to the system which supported me, if it would genuinely help and make a difference to the quality of life, or especially save the life of someone like this in need.That there is obviously a need, is without a doubt if you look around most major cities.

[Raindancer]

Thanks for such an apt post ,you have hit the nail right on the head.I could not agree with you more ,hopefully very soon we will be able to co-ordinate all of the various groups and interested parties into one organized operation that can deal with the various Thai departments concerned with the backing of all Embassies and Consulates to solve this problem.We have already made some very successful moves towards this.Will be delighted to meet you at our next meeting at the Raintree Resource Centre 6th April 5.30pm.Regards MAJORUS

Personally, I don't think that those of us that are living here, whether comfortably or otherwise for many years, should feel obligated to, or be asked to pay for or subsidize in any way, the bad luck or poor decisions of someone they have never met. Having said that, misfortune can strike any of us at any time, so we must never forget that we are all human beings and as such, we should maintain the ability to feel sympathy or at least some understanding, towards anyone who is in obvious need of help. Possibly many of these aging or disadvantaged people, do have the financial assets or income to enable them to live here, but for many various different reasons, they are unable to take care of themselves properly or lack the ability to do so. I personally think, that as these very same people in need here, would be a financial burden on the Government or medical institutions of their home country, were they living there, and that as the cost of living and medical expenses here are so much cheaper than it would be back home, it would not hurt the major embassies here too much and may cost whichever government less in the long run in fact, to set aside funds - perhaps all donate to a common pool - to assist anyone in dire need of assistance. One of the many things I love about Thai culture, is the way Thai families tend to take care and responsibility for the elderly. Unlike us, who in most cases, toss our elderly at some "rest home" or "Palliative care center" and try to forget them. I don't say we all do this, but do some research, the facts will shock you/or not. How hard would it be, to employ someone or some group, to keep track of these needy disadvantaged people, make sure that they are getting medical treatment, inform their families back home if any, of their situation, make sure they have made a will, liaise with the Thai family if there are any and find out any special needs the person may have, that the Thai family can not deal with. I personally know of a couple of cases where the Thai family is happily and lovingly caring for an elderly Westerner at their own expense. The mans wife in another case I know of, is still selling jewelery at a local market, to take care of her Falang husband, when she could have gotten rid of him ages ago. This guy has no income from home so is a total burden! Though I am in no position financially to help anyone else, I do speak fluent Thai(married for 8 years to Thai wife), know the medical system well and have the spare time, so I would happily take on a position like this, to give something back to the system which supported me, if it would genuinely help and make a difference to the quality of life, or especially save the life of someone like this in need.That there is obviously a need, is without a doubt if you look around most major cities.

Excellent post and absolutely on the mark. I will be one of those joining the new organisation to lend or give whatever support I can to hep these other people on a downturn in their lives.

[Ashoka]

Chiang Mai University has started a Clinical Pastoral Education program to deal with this sort of thing. I understand all of the services they offer to the community and public are free. I'm a new member and unsure if I can post the English website but please email me if you want more details, they really helped a friend of mine a lot.

[Lizard2010]

Chiang Mai University has started a Clinical Pastoral Education program to deal with this sort of thing. I understand all of the services they offer to the community and public are free. I'm a new member and unsure if I can post the English website but please email me if you want more details, they really helped a friend of mine a lot.

You should be able to post.

You are not linking a Newspaper article :jap:

Edited March 23, 2011 by Lizard2010

[ronz28]

I guess they need to go back to their home country if they are in permanent need. Other countries shouldn't be warehousing their elderly or poor vagrants in Thailand. Such other countries need to provide them transportation back to their home country and take away their passport if those people don't have the will or means to care for themselves. Giving them a passport and then organizing others in a foreign country to take care of them for you at no cost is inappropriate. Its your problem...not Thailand's.

[ronz28]

Maybe she could spare an acre for one her subject vagrants to live on instead of giving them a passport to Chiang Mai...

http://www.businessinsider.com/worlds-biggest-landowners-2011-3#1-queen-elizabeth-ii-15

[MAJORUS]

To all who showed interest.The next meeting of Ageing Network is now Thursday 7th April at The Raintree Resource Centre At 5.30pm.

It has been moved as the 6th is a Thai holiday.

[millwall_fan]

Thanks for the concern,There is already an operation underway in Chiangmai to address this problem,most Consuls and other groups are already on board.

It is still in its very early days,if you are interested in helping contact the British Consul.Ben Thompson who is co-ordinating the effort our next meeting will be at the Raintree Resource Centre on 6th April.This is becoming a serious problem in Chiangmai and requires urgent attention,not stupid comments .

Several of us have been working on this project or some time. Ben Svasti-Thompson has managed to draw many disparate groups together to try to get a co-ordinated approach to this issue. Many of these guys came here years ago with adequate resources, but have seen these whittled away by inflation and dwindling exchange rates. Many are elderly and have no family or ties back to their own countries. In many countries, as expats, they would have gained citizenship by now and would have access to the social welfare systems of the country they settled in. Thailand only has an embryonic social welfare system and those who make the decisions have never accepted that some foreigners who live in their midst are part of their society. This leaves a number of elderley and impecunious foreigners sick or dying with little support, compassion or help.

At the last meeting of what is tentatively called 'The Caring Network' , UK Hon Consul Ben as well as US consul general Susan Stevenson, The Swedish Honorary Consul and representatives from the Royal British Legion, Help Age International, the Chiang Mai foreign cemetary, McKean Hospital & several Japanese expat organisations discussed possible ways to help. although unable to be present the French and German consuls sent in very helpful submissions.

It is not sufficent to say these people should look after themselves or that better medical insurance is the answer. These people are becoming a burden on Thai social services and that is unacceptable. We have a duty to look after our own elderley and infirm, just as surely as if we lived back home. We are not yet sure what can be done, but we are trying and we need all expats, regardless of nationality to support us!

[amykat]

This is an interesting topic for me. Although the OP seems to be mostly concerned with older/broke people. I moved here because of medical disability ...although I don't get any government payments for that, never tried to apply. But being American, I am unable to get medical insurance, without a full time, rather good job, which I was too sick to keep on a regular basis. (I have SLE Lupus.)

I am, more or less, sick all the time, and this makes me unable to keep up with any sort of social life, or hobbies, etc. I am often, unable to drive, too sick to leave my house for long periods, have to depend on Thai people to work for me/help me, (which always costs me ridiculous amounts, mostly due to the commission system for everything here, and lack of being able to trust anyone).

It is a very isolating lifestyle, and we don't have support groups here, at least in English, unless you need AA ...that seems to be about it. I gave up trying to have Thai friends, as they only seem to be opportunists looking to exploit me (not saying everyone here is like that, but the people who are not like that, seem to take very little interest in foreigners) ...and the ones who do take an interest, are looking for payments. Which is okay ... I was willing to pay for help and was very generous ...that backfired, with people who start out helpful, but are not honest and once they feel they have some power, become totally unreliable in every way. Actually some of them become downright evil in my opinion.

I rarely get out enought to meet other farangs, and well since I am a woman, many of you farang men, are not so friendly towards us, some are truly obnoxious with their anti-Western woman feelings, and I can't say I feel welcome anywhere. For example, there have been posts on TV, where Western men say things like " I had a good experience at ABC spa, the only problem was that I had to see some white whales there and that totally ruined my day." That is just shocking to me ...the fact that you even had to view a farang woman, ruined your DAY??

It is very easy to see on TV that many posters, really attack female posters here, there are always some very aggressive responses, usually hitting below the belt, starting with "Sweetheart ...blah, blah, blah, and accusing us of being disgruntled, bitter women who can't get a date here and generally just discounting our opinions. I didn't move here for a love life, am okay not to have that, don't have the energy to maintain that ...I am barley able to take care of my daughter in a normal way, and actually she is quite isolated too, due to me.

Anyway, I am far from broke, although since I am rather young, I need to be sure I have enough money to last for more decades than most here, and I have a kid to educate and try to give a nice life. So let's say I need to be careful and not pay double for everything , when people I am paying to work for me, feel that raping me finacially is totally acceptable and necessary, along with feeling almost a compulsive need to do the opposite of whatever I ask, well it is more than frustrating, causes a lot of anger, that can't be expressed usually, etc.

And as most of us know, showing any vulnerabilty on TV, causes several posters to attack you ...there are virtually NO subjects you can write about, without getting some very personal attacks. Because this in my only social interaction with people here, farangs here, that is very distressing. Usually I write here when I am very frustrated, and I am not my most diplomatic self, however, I have been through a lot of things in Thailand, and my rather negative view of things here, are not unjustified. We all can have different experiences here, depending on luck, depending on what you came here for, etc.

I thought that since I wasn't here for sex, wasn't here for men, wasn't here for any nefarious reasons, that I didn't need to heed the same warnings that people give you when getting involved with BGs for example. Well and when I moved here, there wasn't any TV, and I wasn't spending time on the internet, researching things, as there wasn't much out there back then.

Sometimes, many times, maybe every day, I am horrified, by the posters who call eveyone a troll, say you deserve to be screwed, or just dispute peoples' opinions, which are based on OUR experiences here. YOU might have a great Thai family, man, woman, whatever, but many of us, do not have this experience. Some of those people, haven't figured out YET, what is going on here. Some of you, might actually have good lives, but that doesn't mean some of us, don't have totally f@cked lives, due to our specific Thai people that we have to deal with.

And for those of you who want to say "why don't you just leave" well that is rather pathetic, as some of use have kids, have homes, have pets, have things we are not willing/able to leave the first time we are pissed off. I WILL be leaving, and can't wait for that day ...but I have some things other than myself, that I need to care for. Some of us, who don't like it here, might be here because we are trying to take care of others, take responsibilty, and aren't totally needing to do whatever is best for us/me at this very moment.

Anyway, I think people are concentrating on broke people, when there are actually some needs here, that don't include being broke.

Edited March 23, 2011 by amykat

[TheFishman1]

Where the Love--They are people--WHAT WOULD GOD DO ?

[ThaiPauly]

This is an interesting topic for me. Although the OP seems to be mostly concerned with older/broke people. I moved here because of medical disability ...although I don't get any government payments for that, never tried to apply. But being American, I am unable to get medical insurance, without a full time, rather good job, which I was too sick to keep on a regular basis. (I have SLE Lupus.)

I am, more or less, sick all the time, and this makes me unable to keep up with any sort of social life, or hobbies, etc. I am often, unable to drive, too sick to leave my house for long periods, have to depend on Thai people to work for me/help me, (which always costs me ridiculous amounts, mostly due to the commission system for everything here, and lack of being able to trust anyone).

It is a very isolating lifestyle, and we don't have support groups here, at least in English, unless you need AA ...that seems to be about it. I gave up trying to have Thai friends, as they only seem to be opportunists looking to exploit me (not saying everyone here is like that, but the people who are not like that, seem to take very little interest in foreigners) ...and the ones who do take an interest, are looking for payments. Which is okay ... I was willing to pay for help and was very generous ...that backfired, with people who start out helpful, but are not honest and once they feel they have some power, become totally unreliable in every way. Actually some of them become downright evil in my opinion.

I rarely get out enought to meet other farangs, and well since I am a woman, many of you farang men, are not so friendly towards us, some are truly obnoxious with their anti-Western woman feelings, and I can't say I feel welcome anywhere. For example, there have been posts on TV, where Western men say things like " I had a good experience at ABC spa, the only problem was that I had to see some white whales there and that totally ruined my day." That is just shocking to me ...the fact that you even had to view a farang woman, ruined your DAY??

It is very easy to see on TV that many posters, really attack female posters here, there are always some very aggressive responses, usually hitting below the belt, starting with "Sweetheart ...blah, blah, blah, and accusing us of being disgruntled, bitter women who can't get a date here and generally just discounting our opinions. I didn't move here for a love life, am okay not to have that, don't have the energy to maintain that ...I am barley able to take care of my daughter in a normal way, and actually she is quite isolated too, due to me.

Anyway, I am far from broke, although since I am rather young, I need to be sure I have enough money to last for more decades than most here, and I have a kid to educate and try to give a nice life. So let's say I need to be careful and not pay double for everything , when people I am paying to work for me, feel that raping me finacially is totally acceptable and necessary, along with feeling almost a compulsive need to do the opposite of whatever I ask, well it is more than frustrating, causes a lot of anger, that can't be expressed usually, etc.

And as most of us know, showing any vulnerabilty on TV, causes several posters to attack you ...there are virtually NO subjects you can write about, without getting some very personal attacks. Because this in my only social interaction with people here, farangs here, that is very distressing. Usually I write here when I am very frustrated, and I am not my most diplomatic self, however, I have been through a lot of things in Thailand, and my rather negative view of things here, are not unjustified. We all can have different experiences here, depending on luck, depending on what you came here for, etc.

I thought that since I wasn't here for sex, wasn't here for men, wasn't here for any nefarious reasons, that I didn't need to heed the same warnings that people give you when getting involved with BGs for example. Well and when I moved here, there wasn't any TV, and I wasn't spending time on the internet, researching things, as there wasn't much out there back then.

Sometimes, many times, maybe every day, I am horrified, by the posters who call eveyone a troll, say you deserve to be screwed, or just dispute peoples' opinions, which are based on OUR experiences here. YOU might have a great Thai family, man, woman, whatever, but many of us, do not have this experience. Some of those people, haven't figured out YET, what is going on here. Some of you, might actually have good lives, but that doesn't mean some of us, don't have totally f@cked lives, due to our specific Thai people that we have to deal with.

And for those of you who want to say "why don't you just leave" well that is rather pathetic, as some of use have kids, have homes, have pets, have things we are not willing/able to leave the first time we are pissed off. I WILL be leaving, and can't wait for that day ...but I have some things other than myself, that I need to care for. Some of us, who don't like it here, might be here because we are trying to take care of others, take responsibilty, and aren't totally needing to do whatever is best for us/me at this very moment.

Anyway, I think people are concentrating on broke people, when there are actually some needs here, that don't include being broke.

A very eloquent and revealing post.

You are spot on in many of your observations.

Your post might make some members take a closer look at themselves and realise just how lucky they are, and that includes me

It's one of the best posts I have read on the forum in a long time, I wish you well for the future.

[Raindancer]

Thanks for the concern,There is already an operation underway in Chiangmai to address this problem,most Consuls and other groups are already on board.

It is still in its very early days,if you are interested in helping contact the British Consul.Ben Thompson who is co-ordinating the effort our next meeting will be at the Raintree Resource Centre on 6th April.This is becoming a serious problem in Chiangmai and requires urgent attention,not stupid comments .

Several of us have been working on this project or some time. Ben Svasti-Thompson has managed to draw many disparate groups together to try to get a co-ordinated approach to this issue. Many of these guys came here years ago with adequate resources, but have seen these whittled away by inflation and dwindling exchange rates. Many are elderly and have no family or ties back to their own countries. In many countries, as expats, they would have gained citizenship by now and would have access to the social welfare systems of the country they settled in. Thailand only has an embryonic social welfare system and those who make the decisions have never accepted that some foreigners who live in their midst are part of their society. This leaves a number of elderley and impecunious foreigners sick or dying with little support, compassion or help.

At the last meeting of what is tentatively called 'The Caring Network' , UK Hon Consul Ben as well as US consul general Susan Stevenson, The Swedish Honorary Consul and representatives from the Royal British Legion, Help Age International, the Chiang Mai foreign cemetary, McKean Hospital & several Japanese expat organisations discussed possible ways to help. although unable to be present the French and German consuls sent in very helpful submissions.

It is not sufficent to say these people should look after themselves or that better medical insurance is the answer. These people are becoming a burden on Thai social services and that is unacceptable. We have a duty to look after our own elderley and infirm, just as surely as if we lived back home. We are not yet sure what can be done, but we are trying and we need all expats, regardless of nationality to support us!

Some excellent observations to explain more about the elderly and some of the reasons for their situations. And your last paragraph sums up my feelings exactly. I hope that more people will get involved rather than sit in front of their PCs and suggest that "these people should go home", or even those who seem horrified at these old people coming to Chiang Mai and upsetting the vie or suggesting that they make the city look untidy..

I really cannot understand some of the less compassionate posts on this subject. Maybe now that they have read your post, they might understand a little better, rather than branding these unfortunate people with the names that they have.

[jackers]

This is an interesting topic for me. Although the OP seems to be mostly concerned with older/broke people. I moved here because of medical disability ...although I don't get any government payments for that, never tried to apply. But being American, I am unable to get medical insurance, without a full time, rather good job, which I was too sick to keep on a regular basis. (I have SLE Lupus.)

I am, more or less, sick all the time, and this makes me unable to keep up with any sort of social life, or hobbies, etc. I am often, unable to drive, too sick to leave my house for long periods, have to depend on Thai people to work for me/help me, (which always costs me ridiculous amounts, mostly due to the commission system for everything here, and lack of being able to trust anyone).

It is a very isolating lifestyle, and we don't have support groups here, at least in English, unless you need AA ...that seems to be about it. I gave up trying to have Thai friends, as they only seem to be opportunists looking to exploit me (not saying everyone here is like that, but the people who are not like that, seem to take very little interest in foreigners) ...and the ones who do take an interest, are looking for payments. Which is okay ... I was willing to pay for help and was very generous ...that backfired, with people who start out helpful, but are not honest and once they feel they have some power, become totally unreliable in every way. Actually some of them become downright evil in my opinion.

I rarely get out enought to meet other farangs, and well since I am a woman, many of you farang men, are not so friendly towards us, some are truly obnoxious with their anti-Western woman feelings, and I can't say I feel welcome anywhere. For example, there have been posts on TV, where Western men say things like " I had a good experience at ABC spa, the only problem was that I had to see some white whales there and that totally ruined my day." That is just shocking to me ...the fact that you even had to view a farang woman, ruined your DAY??

It is very easy to see on TV that many posters, really attack female posters here, there are always some very aggressive responses, usually hitting below the belt, starting with "Sweetheart ...blah, blah, blah, and accusing us of being disgruntled, bitter women who can't get a date here and generally just discounting our opinions. I didn't move here for a love life, am okay not to have that, don't have the energy to maintain that ...I am barley able to take care of my daughter in a normal way, and actually she is quite isolated too, due to me.

Anyway, I am far from broke, although since I am rather young, I need to be sure I have enough money to last for more decades than most here, and I have a kid to educate and try to give a nice life. So let's say I need to be careful and not pay double for everything , when people I am paying to work for me, feel that raping me finacially is totally acceptable and necessary, along with feeling almost a compulsive need to do the opposite of whatever I ask, well it is more than frustrating, causes a lot of anger, that can't be expressed usually, etc.

And as most of us know, showing any vulnerabilty on TV, causes several posters to attack you ...there are virtually NO subjects you can write about, without getting some very personal attacks. Because this in my only social interaction with people here, farangs here, that is very distressing. Usually I write here when I am very frustrated, and I am not my most diplomatic self, however, I have been through a lot of things in Thailand, and my rather negative view of things here, are not unjustified. We all can have different experiences here, depending on luck, depending on what you came here for, etc.

I thought that since I wasn't here for sex, wasn't here for men, wasn't here for any nefarious reasons, that I didn't need to heed the same warnings that people give you when getting involved with BGs for example. Well and when I moved here, there wasn't any TV, and I wasn't spending time on the internet, researching things, as there wasn't much out there back then.

Sometimes, many times, maybe every day, I am horrified, by the posters who call eveyone a troll, say you deserve to be screwed, or just dispute peoples' opinions, which are based on OUR experiences here. YOU might have a great Thai family, man, woman, whatever, but many of us, do not have this experience. Some of those people, haven't figured out YET, what is going on here. Some of you, might actually have good lives, but that doesn't mean some of us, don't have totally f@cked lives, due to our specific Thai people that we have to deal with.

And for those of you who want to say "why don't you just leave" well that is rather pathetic, as some of use have kids, have homes, have pets, have things we are not willing/able to leave the first time we are pissed off. I WILL be leaving, and can't wait for that day ...but I have some things other than myself, that I need to care for. Some of us, who don't like it here, might be here because we are trying to take care of others, take responsibilty, and aren't totally needing to do whatever is best for us/me at this very moment.

Anyway, I think people are concentrating on broke people, when there are actually some needs here, that don't include being broke.

An excellent post.

I think it's an absolute disgrace that the US, UK government can't look after their own and are essentially forcing people to emigrate.

[elektrified]

Another factor is that some of these people may have had substantial retirement accounts at one time. Since 1999 there have been 2 major market crashes and a lot of people that once held "blue chip" securities in their portfolios have lost 50-90% of the value of those securities. In America, many employers encourage their hard-working employees to invest only in the shares of the firm they work for. They get shares at discounts to market value, incentives, etc. Look what happened to the employee shareholders of Enron, ATT...just to name a couple.

Before people throw stones at others misfortune, remember that shit happens in life that we can not prepare ourselves for; death, divorce, illness, theft, fraud, stock market crashes, technology becoming obsolete overnight, and so on. Anything could happen to any of us at any time.

Edited March 24, 2011 by elektrified

[Ulysses G.]

Another factor is that some of these people may have had substantial retirement accounts at one time. Since 1999 there have been 2 major market crashes and a lot of people that once held "blue chip" securities in their portfolios have lost 50-90% of the value of those securities.

I heard about such an elderly person just yesterday. This person has been ill and unable to leave the house and one of our sponsors (restaurant) has been feeding them out of pocket.

[pjclark1]

I guess they need to go back to their home country if they are in permanent need. Other countries shouldn't be warehousing their elderly or poor vagrants in Thailand. Such other countries need to provide them transportation back to their home country and take away their passport if those people don't have the will or means to care for themselves. Giving them a passport and then organizing others in a foreign country to take care of them for you at no cost is inappropriate. Its your problem...not Thailand's.

CM has an Alzheimers hospital for Europeans, one of the governments unloads them here as care costs are much cheaper.

Seems your thoughts are at odds with at least one western government.

[Ricardo]

<snip for brevity>

In any case, it's wonderful that the British Honorary Consul is organizing a new group to address the needs of the "fragile" western retirees. It's too bad we retired people can't volunteer to assist that group since volunteer work is specifically prohibited for those of us here on a retirement visa.

Sadly I suspect that the same limitation might apply, to anybody wishing to volunteer to carry-out an annual-cull, to put these surplus-to-requirements wretches out of their misery.

Might one of our local pie-makers be persuaded, to introduce a new 'Sweeney Todd' line of products, perhaps ?

[swissie]

There is also the problem of mental health. Deteriorating mental health, like for example alzheimers, also means one loses the ability to speak a foreign language. For non native English speakers that will be a problem, as they can't communicate in English any more and will be totaly depended on people who can take care of them and talk with them in their own language.

I'm afraid the number of Thais speaking decent French for example is very limited and some people will be better off in their home country.

This is not last stop for the internationally pennyless ,aged, failing farangs! .This is Thailand which is for Thai people, we are visitors and when there is no funds and you are unable to take care of yourself.... it is time to go home to your own country since your vacation is over.

That is easy for you to say. Some of these people have not been in their 'home' countries for many, many years, have no family left, no friends there, no resources to get there and once there, to live. Some were self-employed all their lives and never paid in to the Social Security fund in order to receive benefits when they get old.

Yes, that's easy to say for some.

For those farangs that decided to make their Retirement-Home in Thailand when the Thai- Bath took the big dive (was it in 1997?, not sure) and were assuming that this favorable Exchange-Rate, Thai-Baht versus "western-currencies" would last forever, got hit hard in the meantime. (If one's pension-money buys 25 % less Bath than before, AND inflation in Thailand was on the increase ever since, of course this can make any financial retirement planning that was based on calculations of the past obsolete by todays standarts.)

AND: When in financial dire-straits, where would a person rather live? In warm and friendly Thailand or in cold and unfriendly Europe, under the same circumstances? Especially if there are no friends and relatives left in Europe ? You figure.

Cheers.

[Ashoka]

To all who showed interest.The next meeting of Ageing Network is now Thursday 7th April at The Raintree Resource Centre At 5.30pm.

It has been moved as the 6th is a Thai holiday.

Maybe you could invite this group to answer some questions.

http://www.chiangmaicpe.org/

[Raindancer]

There is also the problem of mental health. Deteriorating mental health, like for example alzheimers, also means one loses the ability to speak a foreign language. For non native English speakers that will be a problem, as they can't communicate in English any more and will be totaly depended on people who can take care of them and talk with them in their own language.

I'm afraid the number of Thais speaking decent French for example is very limited and some people will be better off in their home country.

This is not last stop for the internationally pennyless ,aged, failing farangs! .This is Thailand which is for Thai people, we are visitors and when there is no funds and you are unable to take care of yourself.... it is time to go home to your own country since your vacation is over.

That is easy for you to say. Some of these people have not been in their 'home' countries for many, many years, have no family left, no friends there, no resources to get there and once there, to live. Some were self-employed all their lives and never paid in to the Social Security fund in order to receive benefits when they get old.

Yes, that's easy to say for some.

For those farangs that decided to make their Retirement-Home in Thailand when the Thai- Bath took the big dive (was it in 1997?, not sure) and were assuming that this favorable Exchange-Rate, Thai-Baht versus "western-currencies" would last forever, got hit hard in the meantime. (If one's pension-money buys 25 % less Bath than before, AND inflation in Thailand was on the increase ever since, of course this can make any financial retirement planning that was based on calculations of the past obsolete by todays standarts.)

AND: When in financial dire-straits, where would a person rather live? In warm and friendly Thailand or in cold and unfriendly Europe, under the same circumstances? Especially if there are no friends and relatives left in Europe ? You figure.

Cheers.

Well said Swissie..........especially your last paragraph. This topic is now highlighting many of the unspoken or unknown/not thought through reasons by other posters, who seem to post negative and less compassionate posts.....Maybe they really need to concentrate on others of Asia hit by disasters and realise that every human in need, wherever they are and particularly those who live in the same country as we do, is our responsibility in some ways as humans. It is a small world.

[Ulysses G.]

AND: When in financial dire-straits, where would a person rather live? In warm and friendly Thailand or in cold and unfriendly Europe, under the same circumstances? Especially if there are no friends and relatives left in Europe ? You figure.

With no way to earn money at all, I would prefer to be in my home country. At least, no one is going to arrest me and put me in a dungeon for being a vagrant.

Edited March 25, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[MamaSan]

Just out of curiosity for those saying stay in Thailand who is going to take care of them. Why should the Thai government take care of them when they are native's of a country that in all likely hood has a system to do just that.

Speaking only for my self. I choose to retire to Thailand because I liked the people the country and the differences in the cultures. If by some chance I was incapacitated to the point where I needed welfare I would go back to the country I came from. My only fear would be in having to leave my Thai wife.

In short people especially westerners should know enough to prepare for unforeseen situations. They should remember that they are living in a society who for the most part take care of the elderly in there family. Thailand has no system set up to take care of them. I do believe that Thailand should go as far as to pay there transportation back to there home country.

Edited March 25, 2011 by MamaSan

[millwall_fan]

Another factor is that some of these people may have had substantial retirement accounts at one time. Since 1999 there have been 2 major market crashes and a lot of people that once held "blue chip" securities in their portfolios have lost 50-90% of the value of those securities.

I heard about such an elderly person just yesterday. This person has been ill and unable to leave the house and one of our sponsors (restaurant) has been feeding them out of pocket.

There are organisations here already UG that may be able to help - it depends on your eldeley persons nationality - and one thing the Caring Network is hoping ot achieve is a register of what exactly is available out there. The Germans and French have excellent set ups, the Brits have the Royal British Legion to assist ex servicemen, US has VFW. We need to know what other organisations can help.

I know there will be those who say 'if you can't afford to be here go home' All those who say that are wealthy enough to stay here and their arroagance is disappointing, if rather predictable. In some cases repatriation may be the answer but in many other cases it isnt. Some of these guys are very elderly and infirm and hoiking them back to unfamiliar surroundings would probably kill them. Many have lived here so long that they have no-one to care for them.

Whether or not you are a Christian you might like to ponder the epithet 'There but for the grace of God, go I' !!

[NancyL]

To all who showed interest.The next meeting of Ageing Network is now Thursday 7th April at The Raintree Resource Centre At 5.30pm.

It has been moved as the 6th is a Thai holiday.

Maybe you could invite this group to answer some questions.

http://www.chiangmaicpe.org/

I checked out the website of this organization and, at first, it seemed to be an answer to many of the concerns posted on this thread. In fact, its mission overlaps that of the Ageing Network in many areas. However, the more I dug into the site, I realized that it was created just a few weeks ago. Maybe the organization has been around for a while, but the site is new. Has anyone had experience with this Chiang Mai CPE organization as a client? Not as someone who pays for their training courses and receives (guess what!) a one-year ED visa! This group is affiliated with CMU and given their history in leaving a couple hundred foreigners in their Language Institute stranded without visas, I'm doubtful about how genuine their mission "to care for the local expat community and help in times of crisis and need."

[uptheos]

Another factor is that some of these people may have had substantial retirement accounts at one time. Since 1999 there have been 2 major market crashes and a lot of people that once held "blue chip" securities in their portfolios have lost 50-90% of the value of those securities.

I heard about such an elderly person just yesterday. This person has been ill and unable to leave the house and one of our sponsors (restaurant) has been feeding them out of pocket.

There are organisations here already UG that may be able to help - it depends on your eldeley persons nationality - and one thing the Caring Network is hoping ot achieve is a register of what exactly is available out there. The Germans and French have excellent set ups, the Brits have the Royal British Legion to assist ex servicemen, US has VFW. We need to know what other organisations can help.

I know there will be those who say 'if you can't afford to be here go home' All those who say that are wealthy enough to stay here and their arroagance is disappointing, if rather predictable. In some cases repatriation may be the answer but in many other cases it isnt. Some of these guys are very elderly and infirm and hoiking them back to unfamiliar surroundings would probably kill them. Many have lived here so long that they have no-one to care for them.

Whether or not you are a Christian you might like to ponder the epithet 'There but for the grace of God, go I' !!

Well said.

[ThaiPauly]

Just out of curiosity for those saying stay in Thailand who is going to take care of them. Why should the Thai government take care of them when they are native's of a country that in all likely hood has a system to do just that.

Why not?.....happens in the UK all the time

I am saying this tounge in cheek of course, but it's true

[Raindancer]

To all who showed interest.The next meeting of Ageing Network is now Thursday 7th April at The Raintree Resource Centre At 5.30pm.

It has been moved as the 6th is a Thai holiday.

Maybe you could invite this group to answer some questions.

http://www.chiangmaicpe.org/

I checked out the website of this organization and, at first, it seemed to be an answer to many of the concerns posted on this thread. In fact, its mission overlaps that of the Ageing Network in many areas. However, the more I dug into the site, I realized that it was created just a few weeks ago. Maybe the organization has been around for a while, but the site is new. Has anyone had experience with this Chiang Mai CPE organization as a client? Not as someone who pays for their training courses and receives (guess what!) a one-year ED visa! This group is affiliated with CMU and given their history in leaving a couple hundred foreigners in their Language Institute stranded without visas, I'm doubtful about how genuine their mission "to care for the local expat community and help in times of crisis and need."

I am going to contact this organisation and arrange a meting for next week. So I will let you know what the outcome is. I have it on good authority that they were visited by the Royal Thai Police some time ago who cleared out some of the volunteers for "working" with merely a stiff warning of not having a work permit to volunteer.

[ChiangMaiFun]

what would be considered 'livable' here? I know some people (farang) on 25,000 - Thais of course can survive on 5,000+

[millwall_fan]

what would be considered 'livable' here? I know some people (farang) on 25,000 - Thais of course can survive on 5,000+

So do a few Farangs!