Yingluck Shinawatra Heading Pheu Thai Leadership

[scorecard]

She turned this down once already because she prefers her business interests. She either gives up her business interests and goes for it, hides her business interests, which won't work, gives up business which I sure she doesn't want to do, or turns it down again. I suspect she is being pressurised to take this rather than doing it through her own choice. I can understand her; who wants to become a slippery Thai politician?

I hope most Thais can see the PT shenanigans for what they are. Anyone who votes for them serious has given up any ethics and wants more same same Thai corrupt politics rather than the slow but improving politics, which is what is happening at the moment. One could easily criticize Abhisit for his performance, but with so many powerful figures in the shadows manoeuvring for control over various things, being a Thai PM must be a very difficult balancing act (and a dangerous one at that).

Agree with all your points, but I still see strong danger that PT can win the election through massive vote buying, and I suggest they won't hesitate to buy votes on a massive scale. And their scaly mentor still has plenty of funds.

One 'theory' I've heard is that they will go all out on vote buying, win with a landslide to give them enough votes to very quickly change the election laws so that they can't be scrutinized at all for vote buying, and quickly railroad legislation through parliament to overturn t's conviction and overturn the current bans on hundreds of their former party members.

Further, Khun Sodsri (not sure which way to asess her, she seems to be at both ends of gthe story) just saud that the EC cannot make any progress to find / stop a lot of the vote buying.

[whybother]

Agree with all your points, but I still see strong danger that PT can win the election through massive vote buying, and I suggest they won't hesitate to buy votes on a massive scale. And their scaly mentor still has plenty of funds.

One 'theory' I've heard is that they will go all out on vote buying, win with a landslide to give them enough votes to very quickly change the election laws so that they can't be scrutinized at all for vote buying, and quickly railroad legislation through parliament to overturn t's conviction and overturn the current bans on hundreds of their former party members.

Further, Khun Sodsri (not sure which way to asess her, she seems to be at both ends of gthe story) just saud that the EC cannot make any progress to find / stop a lot of the vote buying.

I really don't think that the PTP can do enough vote buying to get a majority. If anything, I suspect they will spend their money on buying MPs.

[random]

Agree with all your points, but I still see strong danger that PT can win the election through massive vote buying, and I suggest they won't hesitate to buy votes on a massive scale. And their scaly mentor still has plenty of funds.

One 'theory' I've heard is that they will go all out on vote buying, win with a landslide to give them enough votes to very quickly change the election laws so that they can't be scrutinized at all for vote buying, and quickly railroad legislation through parliament to overturn t's conviction and overturn the current bans on hundreds of their former party members.

Further, Khun Sodsri (not sure which way to asess her, she seems to be at both ends of gthe story) just saud that the EC cannot make any progress to find / stop a lot of the vote buying.

I really don't think that the PTP can do enough vote buying to get a majority. If anything, I suspect they will spend their money on buying MPs.

More hyperbole by the Hyperbole twins, well done you two, creating a conspiracy theory then spreading it with no evidence whatsoever, I guess you are both worried that your beloved dems will be gone this election and they will be made to pay for their actions, don't worry you are not alone with sweating, I imagine plenty of other wrongdoers are glad of this cold snap to hide their sweat.

[MaiChai]

We shall see. People in Bangkok certainly have higher expectations about cleaner and fairer government. It really is a country of two types of people; the educated city people and the uneducated country people. At the end of the day its their country and we just sit on the sidelines observing, since we have no rights. Just try and not get to wrapped up in it and enjoy the good things about Thailand? One thing for sure: it will be unpredicatable!!!

[whybother]

Agree with all your points, but I still see strong danger that PT can win the election through massive vote buying, and I suggest they won't hesitate to buy votes on a massive scale. And their scaly mentor still has plenty of funds.

One 'theory' I've heard is that they will go all out on vote buying, win with a landslide to give them enough votes to very quickly change the election laws so that they can't be scrutinized at all for vote buying, and quickly railroad legislation through parliament to overturn t's conviction and overturn the current bans on hundreds of their former party members.

Further, Khun Sodsri (not sure which way to asess her, she seems to be at both ends of gthe story) just saud that the EC cannot make any progress to find / stop a lot of the vote buying.

I really don't think that the PTP can do enough vote buying to get a majority. If anything, I suspect they will spend their money on buying MPs.

More hyperbole by the Hyperbole twins, well done you two, creating a conspiracy theory then spreading it with no evidence whatsoever, I guess you are both worried that your beloved dems will be gone this election and they will be made to pay for their actions, don't worry you are not alone with sweating, I imagine plenty of other wrongdoers are glad of this cold snap to hide their sweat.

edit: and there I was thinking that you had me on ignore ...

Edited March 23, 2011 by whybother

[jayboy]

She turned this down once already because she prefers her business interests. She either gives up her business interests and goes for it, hides her business interests, which won't work, gives up business which I sure she doesn't want to do, or turns it down again. I suspect she is being pressurised to take this rather than doing it through her own choice. I can understand her; who wants to become a slippery Thai politician?

I hope most Thais can see the PT shenanigans for what they are. Anyone who votes for them serious has given up any ethics and wants more same same Thai corrupt politics rather than the slow but improving politics, which is what is happening at the moment. One could easily criticize Abhisit for his performance, but with so many powerful figures in the shadows manoeuvring for control over various things, being a Thai PM must be a very difficult balancing act (and a dangerous one at that).

Agree with all your points, but I still see strong danger that PT can win the election through massive vote buying, and I suggest they won't hesitate to buy votes on a massive scale. And their scaly mentor still has plenty of funds.

One 'theory' I've heard is that they will go all out on vote buying, win with a landslide to give them enough votes to very quickly change the election laws so that they can't be scrutinized at all for vote buying, and quickly railroad legislation through parliament to overturn t's conviction and overturn the current bans on hundreds of their former party members.

Further, Khun Sodsri (not sure which way to asess her, she seems to be at both ends of gthe story) just saud that the EC cannot make any progress to find / stop a lot of the vote buying.

Nobody with any genuine knowledge believes the election can be won by massive vote buying.Obviously vote buying should be discouraged but it doesn't affect overall outcome.

[random]

Agree with all your points, but I still see strong danger that PT can win the election through massive vote buying, and I suggest they won't hesitate to buy votes on a massive scale. And their scaly mentor still has plenty of funds.

One 'theory' I've heard is that they will go all out on vote buying, win with a landslide to give them enough votes to very quickly change the election laws so that they can't be scrutinized at all for vote buying, and quickly railroad legislation through parliament to overturn t's conviction and overturn the current bans on hundreds of their former party members.

Further, Khun Sodsri (not sure which way to asess her, she seems to be at both ends of gthe story) just saud that the EC cannot make any progress to find / stop a lot of the vote buying.

I really don't think that the PTP can do enough vote buying to get a majority. If anything, I suspect they will spend their money on buying MPs.

More hyperbole by the Hyperbole twins, well done you two, creating a conspiracy theory then spreading it with no evidence whatsoever, I guess you are both worried that your beloved dems will be gone this election and they will be made to pay for their actions, don't worry you are not alone with sweating, I imagine plenty of other wrongdoers are glad of this cold snap to hide their sweat.

edit: and there I was thinking that you had me on ignore ...

I am not that sad to put someone on ignore, I reached puberty many years ago,

I thought you had me on ignore, oh well

[webfact]

Sudarat worries about Pheu Thai campaign in Bangkok

The Pheu Thai Party is at the disadvantage to sway votes in the capital, comparing to the Democrat Party, barred Thai Rak Thai executive Sudarat Keyuraphan said on Wednesday.

"Voting in Bankok hinges on the prevailing sentiment and Pheu Thai should revive Thai Rak Thai policies in order to compete with the Democrats," she said.

Sudarat said the Democrats claimed Bangkok as their political strongholds, therefore Pheu Thai had to carry out a well-prepared campaign to dislodge the main coalition party.

-- The Nation 2011-03-23

[rixalex]

Obviously vote buying should be discouraged but it doesn't affect overall outcome.

And this you know to be fact because...?

[jayboy]

Obviously vote buying should be discouraged but it doesn't affect overall outcome.

And this you know to be fact because...?

Because there has never been such an event, and it's even less likely now given the scrutiny and stiff penalties.Doesn't mean we won't see it on a significant scale, but that's not the point.

Can you point to a Thai election where the result has been decided by vote buying?

I would go further and say that, vote buying apart which involved all parties, even the hysterical government propaganda, army interference and the junta's rigged constitution didn't really affect the overall result of the last election.

[rixalex]

Because there has never been such an event, and it's even less likely now given the scrutiny and stiff penalties.Doesn't mean we won't see it on a significant scale, but that's not the point.

I'm sure you understand what it is you are saying here.

Can you point to a Thai election where the result has been decided by vote buying?

I'm not pointing to anything, just asking a question: how can you possibly know one way or the other, how affected an election is by vote buying?

[hammered]

It is vote recommendation rather than vote buying that affects outcome form what I have seen although the sophisticated village buying with the second tranche coming after the required percent vote is achieved has a very strong peer pressure affect as do the the more urban aimed gambling techniques. Vote buying of individuals is a waste of money really in affecting outcome imho. It works best when people have an interest and even better a group interest in voting a particular way.

Quite how much an election is affecte dby vot ebuying who knows but the asia foundation survey of a few years ago found almost 60% of respondents thought the vote of people in their area could be bought. By the way the whole survey is worth a read as it is the only extensive and neutrally produced one on a whole variety of subjects poltically related.

Link: http://asiafoundation.org/resources/pdfs/ThaiConstitutionReportenglish.pdf

There was an election not so long ago in Europe where people were offering their votes on e-bay.

[jayboy]

Because there has never been such an event, and it's even less likely now given the scrutiny and stiff penalties.Doesn't mean we won't see it on a significant scale, but that's not the point.

I'm sure you understand what it is you are saying here.

Can you point to a Thai election where the result has been decided by vote buying?

I'm not pointing to anything, just asking a question: how can you possibly know one way or the other, how affected an election is by vote buying?

How can you possibly know one way or the other that the world isn't controlled by a race of giant lizards?

I suppose by experience, knowledge and common sense.

[Crushdepth]

I'm not pointing to anything, just asking a question: how can you possibly know one way or the other, how affected an election is by vote buying?

Well if you get caught (again!) and your party gets banned (again!), that can affect the outcome

I am curious to see if TRT MKII will make the same mistake the third time around?

[jayboy]

It is vote recommendation rather than vote buying that affects outcome form what I have seen although the sophisticated village buying with the second tranche coming after the required percent vote is achieved has a very strong peer pressure affect as do the the more urban aimed gambling techniques. Vote buying of individuals is a waste of money really in affecting outcome imho. It works best when people have an interest and even better a group interest in voting a particular way.

Quite how much an election is affecte dby vot ebuying who knows but the asia foundation survey of a few years ago found almost 60% of respondents thought the vote of people in their area could be bought. By the way the whole survey is worth a read as it is the only extensive and neutrally produced one on a whole variety of subjects poltically related.

Link: http://asiafoundation.org/resources/pdfs/ThaiConstitutionReportenglish.pdf

There was an election not so long ago in Europe where people were offering their votes on e-bay.

I have seen this report before.If anything as you suggest it doesn't considered vote buying is particularly significant.Money quote

"The single greatest factor influencing voters’ choice of candidate is the candidate’s availability and accessibility, with fully half (50%) of all respondents selecting this option. Other important factors include candidates’ education (17%) and personal achievements (10%). In choosing a party, 57% say the past history or accomplishments of the party were most important, 22% said, the current plans of the party, and 19% would choose based on the character and accomplishments of the party’s leaders.

Although it is commonly asserted that local leaders have strong influence over voters, our findings suggest the opposite, with just 16% agreeing that following the recommendations of local leaders makes sense. Similarly, just ten percent felt family members choice should be influenced by the opinion of the head of household. Religion has little influence on voter choice: 90% say religious leaders should avoid politics, and 91% say the political recommendations of religious leaders would have little or no influence on their candidate or party choice."

Incidentally although not relevant to this solid report, the Asia Foundation's James Klein is far from being a non partisan observer.Nothing wrong with well informed partisan views - helps the debate along.

[Chang_paarp]

Edited March 23, 2011 by Chang_paarp

[rixalex]

How can you possibly know one way or the other that the world isn't controlled by a race of giant lizards?

I suppose by experience, knowledge and common sense.

Fact(s) actually.

Something your confident assertion lacked. Sorry for noticing.

[whybother]

I have seen this report before.If anything as you suggest it doesn't considered vote buying is particularly significant.Money quote

"The single greatest factor influencing voters' choice of candidate is the candidate's availability and accessibility, with fully half (50%) of all respondents selecting this option. Other important factors include candidates' education (17%) and personal achievements (10%). In choosing a party, 57% say the past history or accomplishments of the party were most important, 22% said, the current plans of the party, and 19% would choose based on the character and accomplishments of the party's leaders.

Although it is commonly asserted that local leaders have strong influence over voters, our findings suggest the opposite, with just 16% agreeing that following the recommendations of local leaders makes sense. Similarly, just ten percent felt family members choice should be influenced by the opinion of the head of household. Religion has little influence on voter choice: 90% say religious leaders should avoid politics, and 91% say the political recommendations of religious leaders would have little or no influence on their candidate or party choice."

Incidentally although not relevant to this solid report, the Asia Foundation's James Klein is far from being a non partisan observer.Nothing wrong with well informed partisan views - helps the debate along.

So, according to the poll, given that the factors influencing voters' choice of candidate didn't include "amount of money they paid", we can only come to the assumption that there was no vote buying. Unless that factor just wasn't reported ofcourse.

[hammered]

It is vote recommendation rather than vote buying that affects outcome form what I have seen although the sophisticated village buying with the second tranche coming after the required percent vote is achieved has a very strong peer pressure affect as do the the more urban aimed gambling techniques. Vote buying of individuals is a waste of money really in affecting outcome imho. It works best when people have an interest and even better a group interest in voting a particular way.

Quite how much an election is affecte dby vot ebuying who knows but the asia foundation survey of a few years ago found almost 60% of respondents thought the vote of people in their area could be bought. By the way the whole survey is worth a read as it is the only extensive and neutrally produced one on a whole variety of subjects poltically related.

Link: http://asiafoundation.org/resources/pdfs/ThaiConstitutionReportenglish.pdf

There was an election not so long ago in Europe where people were offering their votes on e-bay.

I have seen this report before.If anything as you suggest it doesn't considered vote buying is particularly significant.Money quote

"The single greatest factor influencing voters’ choice of candidate is the candidate’s availability and accessibility, with fully half (50%) of all respondents selecting this option. Other important factors include candidates’ education (17%) and personal achievements (10%). In choosing a party, 57% say the past history or accomplishments of the party were most important, 22% said, the current plans of the party, and 19% would choose based on the character and accomplishments of the party’s leaders.

Although it is commonly asserted that local leaders have strong influence over voters, our findings suggest the opposite, with just 16% agreeing that following the recommendations of local leaders makes sense. Similarly, just ten percent felt family members choice should be influenced by the opinion of the head of household. Religion has little influence on voter choice: 90% say religious leaders should avoid politics, and 91% say the political recommendations of religious leaders would have little or no influence on their candidate or party choice."

Incidentally although not relevant to this solid report, the Asia Foundation's James Klein is far from being a non partisan observer.Nothing wrong with well informed partisan views - helps the debate along.

"The candidates availability and accesibility". Big advantage to local powerful families with multiple canvassers, mills, money lending businesses and plenty of bodyguards there. In many rural constituencies it is very dangerous to politically challenge the local big ones and being available and accesible makes it only more so. That is a sad truth of Thai politics across all regions. It is often a no choice election in many areas with a well known provincial big name versus a guaranteed loser whose own party doesnt even expect a performance. Less so in town consituencies.

Hopefully this election will actually see a higher number of competetive races

On the survey. I would recommend people look at it all as there is a huge amount of information and we can only serve up relatively small bits, and some seem contradictory.

[jayboy]

How can you possibly know one way or the other that the world isn't controlled by a race of giant lizards?

I suppose by experience, knowledge and common sense.

Fact(s) actually.

Something your confident assertion lacked. Sorry for noticing.

No it's equally at least a matter of subjective judgement in an area where "facts" are often elusive.I suggest you study carefully the Asia Foundation Report recently linked to by Hammered.This would give you some useful background.

[hammered]

I have seen this report before.If anything as you suggest it doesn't considered vote buying is particularly significant.Money quote

"The single greatest factor influencing voters' choice of candidate is the candidate's availability and accessibility, with fully half (50%) of all respondents selecting this option. Other important factors include candidates' education (17%) and personal achievements (10%). In choosing a party, 57% say the past history or accomplishments of the party were most important, 22% said, the current plans of the party, and 19% would choose based on the character and accomplishments of the party's leaders.

Although it is commonly asserted that local leaders have strong influence over voters, our findings suggest the opposite, with just 16% agreeing that following the recommendations of local leaders makes sense. Similarly, just ten percent felt family members choice should be influenced by the opinion of the head of household. Religion has little influence on voter choice: 90% say religious leaders should avoid politics, and 91% say the political recommendations of religious leaders would have little or no influence on their candidate or party choice."

Incidentally although not relevant to this solid report, the Asia Foundation's James Klein is far from being a non partisan observer.Nothing wrong with well informed partisan views - helps the debate along.

So, according to the poll, given that the factors influencing voters' choice of candidate didn't include "amount of money they paid", we can only come to the assumption that there was no vote buying. Unless that factor just wasn't reported ofcourse.

It was a bit contradictory with the candidate chosen by accesability (50%), party by past performance (57%), vote buying would affect people in my area (58%), and a massive it is OK to take money and then vote for anyone you want although to be fair the last two are asking would it affect people (other than you) and do you think it is ok to .....The questions could have both been general "people" or "you"

Some showed regional variation such as local leaders affecting vote 11% for most of the country and 25% for North East

Some showed gender variation etc

There was also a 50-50 split on whether elections would be free and fair

But even with more examples above it really needs to be looked at as a whole than just taking examples I or Jayboy list

Lots of stuff

[Asa]

Only mickey mouse democracies allow power to be handed from father to child. This wouldn't happen in America LoLs.

Of course G. Bush Sr. didn't hand it over to G.W. Bush, nor between the Kennedy brothers. And Kirk Douglas didn't force it on Michael either.

[chachachacha]

She turned this down once already because she prefers her business interests. She either gives up her business interests and goes for it, hides her business interests, which won't work, gives up business which I sure she doesn't want to do, or turns it down again. I suspect she is being pressurised to take this rather than doing it through her own choice. I can understand her; who wants to become a slippery Thai politician?

I hope most Thais can see the PT shenanigans for what they are. Anyone who votes for them serious has given up any ethics and wants more same same Thai corrupt politics rather than the slow but improving politics, which is what is happening at the moment. One could easily criticize Abhisit for his performance, but with so many powerful figures in the shadows manoeuvring for control over various things, being a Thai PM must be a very difficult balancing act (and a dangerous one at that).

Agree with all your points, but I still see strong danger that PT can win the election through massive vote buying, and I suggest they won't hesitate to buy votes on a massive scale. And their scaly mentor still has plenty of funds.

One 'theory' I've heard is that they will go all out on vote buying, win with a landslide to give them enough votes to very quickly change the election laws so that they can't be scrutinized at all for vote buying, and quickly railroad legislation through parliament to overturn t's conviction and overturn the current bans on hundreds of their former party members.

Further, Khun Sodsri (not sure which way to asess her, she seems to be at both ends of gthe story) just saud that the EC cannot make any progress to find / stop a lot of the vote buying.

THEORY ? SPIN SPIN SPIN & BS

[rixalex]

No it's equally at least a matter of subjective judgement in an area where "facts" are often elusive.

What are you saying "no" to?

What you go on to say supports precisely the point i was making.

I suggest you study carefully the Asia Foundation Report recently linked to by Hammered.This would give you some useful background.

Already have thanks.

[rubl]

Sudarat worries about Pheu Thai campaign in Bangkok

The Pheu Thai Party is at the disadvantage to sway votes in the capital, comparing to the Democrat Party, barred Thai Rak Thai executive Sudarat Keyuraphan said on Wednesday.

"Voting in Bankok hinges on the prevailing sentiment and Pheu Thai should revive Thai Rak Thai policies in order to compete with the Democrats," she said.

Sudarat said the Democrats claimed Bangkok as their political strongholds, therefore Pheu Thai had to carry out a well-prepared campaign to dislodge the main coalition party.

-- The Nation 2011-03-23

May I suggest to the PTP to replay major parts of the recent censure debate. Especially the parts were the government was accused of being behind the torching of CWT. Should go down well with the electorate here in Bangkok

[SomTumTiger]

Chalerm resigns

By The Nation

Pheu Thai MP Chalerm Yoobamrung on Wednesday quitted his House seat under the party-list quota from Bangkok on the ground that he wanted to devote time to campaign for his party.

"I resign my position as of March 23," he said in his resignation letter submitted to the House speaker via the House Secretariat.

His close aide dismissed speculation that Chalerm would leave Pheu Thai in order to reactivate the Muanchon Party.

-- The Nation 2011-03-23

Wasn't doing "jack Sh$t" in parliament. At least we don't have to pay the bozo's salary for the next few months.

[webfact]

Thaksin not shock but surprise at Chalerm's resignation: aide

Former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra had a telephone conversation with Pheu Thai MP Chalerm Yoobamrung on Tuesday's night, a day before the latter resigned his House seat, legal adviser Noppadon Pattama said on Wednesday.

"Thaksin isn't shocked but surprised at Chalerm's decision," he said.

-- The Nation 2011-03-23

[Buchholz]

How can you possibly know one way or the other that the world isn't controlled by a race of giant lizards?

I suppose by experience, knowledge and common sense.

Fact(s) actually.

Something your confident assertion lacked. Sorry for noticing.

No it's equally at least a matter of subjective judgement in an area where "facts" are often elusive.I suggest you study carefully the Asia Foundation Report recently linked to by Hammered.This would give you some useful background.

Like this part, for example...

the asia foundation survey of a few years ago found almost 60% of respondents thought the vote of people in their area could be bought

[animatic]

Because there has never been such an event, and it's even less likely now given the scrutiny and stiff penalties.Doesn't mean we won't see it on a significant scale, but that's not the point.

I'm sure you understand what it is you are saying here.

Can you point to a Thai election where the result has been decided by vote buying?

I'm not pointing to anything, just asking a question: how can you possibly know one way or the other, how affected an election is by vote buying?

More appropriately,

can anyone point to a Thai election when voting corruption in some large form has NOT affected the outcome?

[katasyd]

Thaksin not shock but surprise at Chalerm's resignation: aide

Former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra had a telephone conversation with Pheu Thai MP Chalerm Yoobamrung on Tuesday's night, a day before the latter resigned his House seat, legal adviser Noppadon Pattama said on Wednesday.

"Thaksin isn't shocked but surprised at Chalerm's decision," he said.

-- The Nation 2011-03-23

Because Thaksin and his team lie 100% of the time, i believe he is shit scared about losing one of his oldest and closest allies.

This is just the start of the big demise of Thaksin.